Clutch problems

I have a '95 S10 pickup, 4x4, 4.3 Z code, 5-speed. Two weeks ago my clutch would not fully disengage, only partly. Also, when starting out on a hill the peddle would be all the way out before it fully engaged. After checking my master and slave cylinders (and fluid level) I determined it was more likely then not the pressure plate starting to go. Not having the time to replace a clutch it was taken to a shop. The new clutch was installed but now the following is going on. 1) The peddle is extremely soft until half way down, 2) the peddle must be pushed into the carpet for full disengagement, 3) the clutch engages just off the floor, 4) it seems to vibrate and make some rattling noises when engaging. In addition, they didn't install the exhaust correctly so it leaks and two hangers are up-side-down (I replaced it myself two months ago and know how it is supposed to be). After two times back to the shop, bleeding the hydraulic lines to death, and replacing the master cylinder myself it is exactly the same way. I am going through American Express to get my money back and taking the truck to a different shop, hopefully better. What could the first shop have done to make a clutch act like this? Thanks for the help, I am in a bad way right now so thank God for beer.

Hard to say without taking it apart and looking in there.
But I would go a brand new not rebuilt clutch kit and a new slay cylinder the next time.
And a tip on finding a good repair shop.
Good luck the next round on it.
MT

Check around Ask around
Word of mouth.
Family friends coworkers neighbors business people and delivery people.
Mailmen and parcel delivery people get around and notice a lot of stuff.
Even a good parts house knows what shops are good and not good.
Chamber of commerce and better business bureau and city hall.
If you find a good referral to a repair shop go look them over and talk to them.
Look for a clean looking busy place with nice people running it.
Ask a few questions and ask about their qualifications and training.
Not all places have trained tech/mechanics.
If they do not find a place that does.
Even all dealers do not have all trained techs/mechanics.

The place put in a brand new AC Delco clutch. I had them put the old one in the bed and they threw it in the box from the new one. While the part number on the box is right for my truck, it is not unheard off for the wrong part to be in the right box. Also, there is always the possibility that something was not installed correctly but I don't know what they could have done. As for the slave cylinder, I really don't think that is bad as it doesn't leak. From my understanding a slave cylinder will either work or leak. Because my slave cylinder is on the outside of the clutch housing it isn't necessary for them to replace it as I can do it at any time in about 1 hour (including bleeding the lines). Just can't figure out what could have been done wrong to cause the problems I am having.

Without seeing what they put it in or how they put it in it is hard to say.
A soft pedal half way down can be master cylinder or slay cylinder.
A vibration or noise in there you need to pull it out and have a look.
I would put a new complete clutch kit in it and be done with the problem.
An pay close attention to throw out bearing and release fork and for the right throw out bearing and release fork damage.
Good Luck MT

I also posted the problem on the main S10 forum because one response seemed a little lacking, not to mention the single responder didn't pay close attention to what I wrote. Why would I replace the master cylinder if I just replaced it? Also, the slave cylinder couldn't cause this, if it doesn't move like it is supposed to then it will leak. Also, I am not crying over spilled milk but trying to get some insight as to what could have gone wrong when the shop put the new clutch in (I know it wasn't a rebuilt clutch because the box is in my bed with the old clutch in it). Just wanted to get some ideas as to what could have been done wrong. The lack of responses tells me no one has a clue. I will post what was wrong once I found out.

I have a '95 S10 pickup, 4x4, 4.3 Z code, 5-speed. Two weeks ago my clutch would not fully disengage, only partly. Also, when starting out on a hill the peddle would be all the way out before it fully engaged. After checking my master and slave cylinders (and fluid level) I determined it was more likely then not the pressure plate starting to go. Not having the time to replace a clutch it was taken to a shop. The new clutch was installed but now the following is going on. 1) The peddle is extremely soft until half way down, 2) the peddle must be pushed into the carpet for full disengagement, 3) the clutch engages just off the floor, 4) it seems to vibrate and make some rattling noises when engaging. In addition, they didn't install the exhaust correctly so it leaks and two hangers are up-side-down (I replaced it myself two months ago and know how it is supposed to be). After two times back to the shop, bleeding the hydraulic lines to death, and replacing the master cylinder myself it is exactly the same way. I am going through American Express to get my money back and taking the truck to a different shop, hopefully better. What could the first shop have done to make a clutch act like this? Thanks for the help, I am in a bad way right now so thank God for beer.

Here is your first post.
It only says the clutch was replaced and then you replaced the master cylinder.
It does not say the slay cylinder was replaced or how much or what parts of the of the clutch was replaced.
Which you failed to tell us about.
A box in the back does not tell us much
There is a clutch plate and a pressure plate and a throw out and pilot bearing and a clutch release fork in there that is part of the clutch system.
If any one or all of them is bad the clutch will not work right.
The only way we could know what went wrong or what they did or what is wrong or bad would be to take it apart and have a look at it.
Good Luck
MT

I am sorry for not being more specific in saying the replacement consisted of the clutch plate, pressure plate, pilot bearing, and throwout bearing (a typical clutch kit). Never heard of someone going through all the trouble of taking the trany off and just replacing one of these, and assumed any mechanic/gearhead on here would have thought that too but you know what they say about assuming something. Also, I never said anything about replacing the slave cylinder because I didn't as it doesn't leak. Again, before the first shop replaced the clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing the clutch peddle was stiff from top to bottom and now it is only stiff starting at half way down. Because the clutch fork is moving while there is no pressure against the clutch peddle, you can see this through an access port on the clutch housing, I would guess the gap is too large between the throw out bearing and pressure plate. What I don't know is if incorrect installation could cause this or if an incorrect replacement clutch kit is the only answer. By "box" I was referring to the box the new AC Delco clutch kit came in, they put the old clutch and pressure plate in it as I wanted to take a look at them. I checked the part number on this box and it came up as correct for my truck but it wouldn't be the first time a part box said one thing and something else was inside.

If there is any noise or vibration from clutch it is a internal problem or the clutch needs pulled out and checked.

On the soft pedal half way down.
The clutch release fork or throw out bearing should not have a lot of free play or travel.
Did anyone install a heavy return spring on slay cylinder linkage.
Once the slay cylinder is pushed out or pushed the throw out bearing and against the pressure plate fingers it should stay close to there.

The best way to bleed the slay cylinder is with a gravity bleed.
With master cylinder top off and full of fluid open slay cylinder bleeder and let it gravity bleed.

Do the gravity bleed procedure and if it does not gravity bleed recheck master cylinder.
And make sure master cylinder has free travel at the end of push rod.
MT

OK, so new shop... They find out the throw out bearing was installed improperly by the first shop:disappoin , why I like doing things myself. Brand new clutch plate, flywheel, pressure plate, throw out bearing, and pilot bearing are installed by shop #2 (shop #1 is giving me all my money back if I give them back the parts they installed). Clutch peddle pressure and engagement are now how they were originally, which is a good thing. Problem is, the peddle still must be pushed against the floor for full disengagement. I put in a new master cylinder and shop #2 replaced the slave cylinder and bled the lines. Is this probably just because of a little air left in the lines? Also, and more importantly, when starting from a stop the clutch still chatters during engagement, both vibration and noise. Is it normal for a new clutch to chatter for the first few hundred miles? I did notice that the pressure plate installed by shop #1 had three hot spots on it and don't know if hot stops on shop #2's clutch could be causing the chatter. Thanks again for the help, I am about to loose my mind on this. :banghead:

OK, so new shop... They find out the throw out bearing was installed improperly by the first shop:disappoin , why I like doing things myself. Brand new clutch plate, flywheel, pressure plate, throw out bearing, and pilot bearing are installed by shop #2 (shop #1 is giving me all my money back if I give them back the parts they installed). Clutch peddle pressure and engagement are now how they were originally, which is a good thing. Problem is, the peddle still must be pushed against the floor for full disengagement. I put in a new master cylinder and shop #2 replaced the slave cylinder and bled the lines. Is this probably just because of a little air left in the lines? Also, and more importantly, when starting from a stop the clutch still chatters during engagement, both vibration and noise. Is it normal for a new clutch to chatter for the first few hundred miles? I did notice that the pressure plate installed by shop #1 had three hot spots on it and don't know if hot stops on shop #2's clutch could be causing the chatter. Thanks again for the help, I am about to loose my mind on this. :banghead:

Reread post My post no 8 and 9 and answer the questions I asked.
Return spring?
Did you check and see if it will gravity bleed?
Free travel in master cylinder?

I have not tried bleeding the system since replacing the master cylinder. Since then shop #2 has replaced the slave cylinder and rebled the system. Everything in the truck is stock and AC Delco, including return springs. What do you mean by "make sure the master cylinder has free travel at the end of the push rod?"
I am probably going to try and bleed the system this weekend and see if disengagement improves. After doing some web searching the two most likely reasons for clutch chatter in my case is they didn't clean the flywheel and/or pressure plate with a degreaser before installation or the release fork was damaged when shop #2 incorrectly installed the throwout bearing. Do either of these seem plausible? Thanks for the help. Again, all this is why I like doing things myself...know it is done right the first time.

On second thought, I am not going to bleed the lines this weekend. I payed the shop A LOT of money to make my truck work properly. There is no reason I should get dirty trying to fix something they should do right?

On second thought, I am not going to bleed the lines this weekend. I payed the shop A LOT of money to make my truck work properly. There is no reason I should get dirty trying to fix something they should do right?

The clutch cylinder just like a brake master cylinder push rod should come all of the way back and should have a little slack or free play when released.
If not they will not work or bleed right.
That is one reason to do the gravity bleed.
Also a gravity bleed works better on getting the air out of the system.

But it it has a return spring on slay cylinder that is a no no.
They will not work right with a return spring.

And yes on clutch chatter. Grease or oil or packing grease will do things like that.

But as you said take it back and make them lick there calf over.
The job is not done until it is working right.

But if there is a return spring on slay cylinder pitch it in the trash can.
Good Luck
And let us know how it goes.
MT

So lets close the book on this one. Took it back to shop #2 again and forced them to replace the clutch...again. They told me over and over that their "expert mechanic" doesn't think the chattering is from the clutch but drive train. With my B.S. meter going crazy I told him to redo it anyway, if that didn't fix the problem I had to pay them for the labor. This time they had a crazy idea to compare the one they put in to the original, still in the truck bed, and surprise surprise they didn't match up. Ends up they put in a Sachs clutch kit instead of an AC Delco and it didn't match up correctly. With a new AC Delco clutch everything works great now. Oh and for anyone that needs this done be sure to call the dealer and have them run your VIN for the type of manual trany oil. Shop #1 put in 80-90w and shop #2 put in synthetic ATF the first time around. When I confronted shop #2 about this they said synthetic ATF is acceptable for the trany but thats not true, as many of you know. Only some of the manual tranys in the S10s can take synthetic ATF, others like mine take synchromesh. If the shop doesn't know what that is then go somewhere else or tell them pennzoil and AC Delco both make some.

Thanks for posting back how it went.
Glad all is fix now.
Good luck with it now.
MT