Crankshaft pulley

I just noticed the pulley over my crankshaft has pushed out about 1/2 inch from where it should be, this has caused the serpentine belt to fly off as it is not lined up with the alt, BT, PS, and AC. The book says an harmonic balancer is required to install this thing. WTH is that? Does anyone know a quick way to push the wheel back into place. I tried tightening the 15 mm bolt, but the whole thing turns.

I just noticed the pulley over my crankshaft has pushed out about 1/2 inch from where it should be, this has caused the serpentine belt to fly off as it is not lined up with the alt, BT, PS, and AC. The book says an harmonic balancer is required to install this thing. WTH is that? Does anyone know a quick way to push the wheel back into place. I tried tightening the 15 mm bolt, but the whole thing turns.

Hey Iceman, Your just a wealth of good news ..... Thought it was a funny coincidence that you serp belt broke right after you did your IMG. The harmonic balance (also called a torsion vibration damper or vibe damper for short) is part of the crankshaft pulley assembly on this engine, basically the outer ring of the pulley is isolated from the inner ring of the assembly by a highly compressed piece of rubber. As individual cylinders fire the crankshaft winds up (yeah I know how could something that hard made out of steel wind up, trust me it does even on these wimpy 3.4L engines) .... the rubber absorbs this energy and gives it back to the crankshaft slowly (well relative the speed of the crankshaft it's slow) it kind of act like a shock absorber for your crankshaft. Without the vibe damper the crankshaft would snap.

Now that you know what a harmonic balancer is ... if the pulley was in the right place before you started with your IMG adventure I kind of think it is still in the right place after you replaced you IMG, however.... did you put the 3/8 steel lifting hook plate back between the accessory drive mounting bracket and the cylinder head? That would account for the about 1/2" your looking at. I did the same thing but the long bolt for the accessory bracket wasn't seated before it was tight. That was when I noticed the lifting hook sitting on the work bench.

Hope that is what it is, even though it will be a pain in the ass to put it back in if it is.

Let me know.

Sparky

.....highly compressed piece of rubber. As individual cylinders fire the crankshaft winds up (yeah I know how could something that hard made out of steel wind up, trust me it does even on these wimpy 3.4L engines) ....

Sparky


Spark, the vented crankshaft wheel is exposed; there are pieces of rubberr lodged between the vented crankshaft wheel (not the pulley), and the engine wall, I think these are from the first belt. The engine runs and all wheels turn, however, the crankshaft is way off and wobbles a bit. The balancer has clearly separated from the crankshaft. The book says 'have an assistant hold the pulley as you tighten the bolt to 76 ft. lbs'. Do you know any tricks to keep the balancer in place while I tighten without an assistant? I would prefer to remove the whole thing and properly reinstall it, but just getting it back into position will certainly work. The book also says to raise the vehicle, remove the wheel and splash guard and you're staring right into this thing. I plan to borrow the harmonic balancer puller from AZ, but where does the RTV sealant go? Will this require the engine to be timed?




Thanks,

Mark

the crankshaft is way off and wobbles a bit. The balancer has clearly separated from the crankshaft. The book says 'have an assistant hold the pulley as you tighten the bolt to 76 ft. lbs'. Do you know any tricks to keep the balancer in place while I tighten without an assistant? I would prefer to remove the whole thing and properly reinstall it, but just getting it back into position will certainly work. The book also says to raise the vehicle, remove the wheel and splash guard and you're staring right into this thing. I plan to borrow the harmonic balancer puller from AZ, but where does the RTV sealant go? Will this require the engine to be timed?

Thanks,

Mark

Hey Iceman, The "Wobbles a bit" has me real concerned, you have a '97 so I'm not sure of the configuration, on the '02 the outer part of the vibe damper is the pulley. If your vibe damper/pulley is wobbling it may need to be replaced, I would be real concerned about it coming apart, saw a friends race car that the vibe damper came apart and it cleaned the water pump right off the motor went right through an upper frame tube and ripped the front tire off the rim, of course that was at 7 grand but you get the idea, lot of energy stored up in those things.

As far as tightening the bolt if there is an inspection cover for the trans you can usually carefully jam a big screw driver in the gear teeth of the ring gear. If there is no inspection cover you can drop the starter and do the same thing, you need to take care not to damage the gear teeth for obvious reasons. The other thing you can try is wrapping the old serp belt around the pulley and grapping the belt with a big pair of channel locks, the belt protects the pulley from damage. The other thing to check on is to see if AutoZone has a flywheel turner (kind of looks like what a lumber jack uses to turn logs on the ground but it grabs onto the starter teeth on the flex plate - might not work without the inspection cover).

Have fun with that one. Still seams odd that this happened if everything was ok before the IMG.

Luck,

Sparky

[QUOTE=Sparky1349]Hey Iceman, The "Wobbles a bit" has me real concerned, you have a '97 so I'm not sure of the configuration, on the '02 the outer part of the vibe damper is the pulley. If your vibe damper/pulley is wobbling it may need to be replaced, I would be real concerned about it coming apart, saw a friends race car that the vibe damper came apart and it cleaned the water pump right off the motor went right through an upper frame tube and ripped the front tire off the rim, of course that was at 7 grand but you get the idea, lot of energy stored up in those things.

As far as tightening the bolt if there is an inspection cover for the trans you can usually carefully jam a big screw driver in the gear teeth of the ring gear. If there is no inspection cover you can drop the starter and do the same thing, you need to take care not to damage the gear teeth for obvious reasons. The other thing you can try is wrapping the old serp belt around the pulley and grapping the belt with a big pair of channel locks, the belt protects the pulley from damage. The other thing to check on is to see if AutoZone has a flywheel turner (kind of looks like what a lumber jack uses to turn logs on the ground but it grabs onto the starter teeth on the flex plate - might not work without the inspection cover).

Have fun with that one. Still seams odd that this happened if everything was ok before the IMG.

Luck,

Sparky[/QUOTE



Good advice, Spark, just got back from Autozone, $60, and they'll have it here tomorrow, he did not think the engine will need to be timed. This balancer problem leads me to believe this could have been at the heart of all the trouble.

Good advice, Spark, just got back from Autozone, $60, and they'll have it here tomorrow, he did not think the engine will need to be timed. This balancer problem leads me to believe this could have been at the heart of all the trouble.

Iceman, if you get the puller from AZ see if they have an installer also. You can use the bolt to pull the vibe damper on but you risk stripping the threads in the end of the crank. Installer just looks like a long stud, you thread it all the way into the crank then put the vibe damper on the crank snout and place a bearing and a nut on the installer. As you tighten the nut it pushes the damper on the crank.

Also make sure the key is installed tight and square in it's little keyway and the crank snout isn't all banged up from the loose damper. Clean up any little burrs with a bit of emery cloth.

Sorry I didn't say anything about the timing, but AZ is right the Vibe Damper/Pulley doesn't have anything to do with the timing of the engine it just gives you an indication of where the timing is. The key aligns everything so that the timing marks all align. Trivia time - the center of the key alignes with top dead center on cylinder #1, as far as I know that is a universal standard on all engines not just cars.

Sparky

Wilco, Spark, I'm anxious to get this project completed, was able to drive the van a couple of times, rides fairly nice for 130k miles and 10 years old. I like the options, too.

I got the balancer off last night with a balancer removal tool borrowed from AZ, also borrowed the installer, but, after further review, I don't think there's anything wrong with the balancer, the rubber strips were from the first belt, I pick up the new balancer tonight and will compare it to the old one, will probably return the new one to AZ, I now believe it might be the belt tensioner. I'm dreading the install, the removal was a total pain, had to tie off the balancer with a rope to stop it from turning, then the 3 removal tool bolts were difficult to thread in, stripped all of them. Lesson learned - use the detachable point on the main bolt! I can't decide if I'd rather the problem be the balancer or the BT, although the BT is cheaper and easier to install I have to install the balancer anyway. My strategy for tightening the middle holding bolt will incorporate one of the long bolts that came with the removal tool - I'll thread it into one of the holes where it will catch the frame, so the thing can't turn, it's only calling for 76 ft. lbs. I do not know how difficult it is to remove the starter, but I don't think it will be that easy.

Hey Spark, it was the balancer! Damndest thing I've ever seen, if I live to be 100, I'll never figured out how this thing got damaged, it was protruding out a good 1/2 to 1 inch from the engine. It was much easier to install the new one, than it was removing the old one, I just sprayed some WD-40 into snout. AZ's loan-a-tools are junk, but it's better than having to buy them. Another question, I just realized I did not install a lower gasket on the EGR, what do you think?

Hey Spark, it was the balancer! Damndest thing I've ever seen, if I live to be 100, I'll never figured out how this thing got damaged, it was protruding out a good 1/2 to 1 inch from the engine. It was much easier to install the new one, than it was removing the old one, I just sprayed some WD-40 into snout. AZ's loan-a-tools are junk, but it's better than having to buy them. Another question, I just realized I did not install a lower gasket on the EGR, what do you think?

Iceman, great to hear you got to the bottom of the issue with your serpentine belt.

If there is not gasket at all between the EGR valve and the manifold I would go to the effort of installing one. Obviously the EGR gets really hot, with the difference in expansion rates of the Iron EGR valve and the aluminum intake I think it's only a matter of time before you get a leak.

Sparky

Iceman, great to hear you got to the bottom of the issue with your serpentine belt.

If there is not gasket at all between the EGR valve and the manifold I would go to the effort of installing one. Obviously the EGR gets really hot, with the difference in expansion rates of the Iron EGR valve and the aluminum intake I think it's only a matter of time before you get a leak.

Sparky

Thanks, I replaced the upper EGR gasket - it goes between the upper intake manifold and the bottom of the EGR. There's another one below the upper IM piece and the shiny flexible hose that mounts to bottom of upper IM and exhaust man, into the EGR, this is the one I missed. Went to the car wash last night to wash the under carriage and it tripped the Ox sensor and the check engine light came on, got it zeroed at AZ, guy tried to tell me I needed a new sensor, told him no way was I going back in there. The light's off for now.

Thanks, I replaced the upper EGR gasket - it goes between the upper intake manifold and the bottom of the EGR. There's another one below the upper IM piece and the shiny flexible hose that mounts to bottom of upper IM and exhaust man, into the EGR, this is the one I missed. Went to the car wash last night to wash the under carriage and it tripped the Ox sensor and the check engine light came on, got it zeroed at AZ, guy tried to tell me I needed a new sensor, told him no way was I going back in there. The light's off for now.

Iceman,
Great to hear your back on the road again. '02 EGR sounds a little different from you '97, I never seperated the valve from the stainless tubing just pulled the bolts from the valve into the IM and left it hanging there.

Definitely need to be careful with the power washer, I did mine in the driveway but didn't spray any connectors. My '87 S-10 ran like crap after I power washed the engine until it warmed up enough to dry out the connectors.

You had a post about a disk in the radiator, didn't know anything about it so I didn't reply, did you ever get that figured out?

Thanks for closing the loop on the vibe damper. How did you know the old damper was the issue? Did you compare it to the new one? Could you see any reason for the seperation (nicks, dents or rubber dryrot)? Let me know.

Sparky

You had a post about a disk in the radiator, didn't know anything about it so I didn't reply, did you ever get that figured out?

Thanks for closing the loop on the vibe damper. How did you know the old damper was the issue? Did you compare it to the new one? Could you see any reason for the seperation (nicks, dents or rubber dryrot)? Let me know.

Sparky


As far as the radiator, that was me not knowing what I was talking about, I thought the freeze plugs were on the radiator, turns out they're on the block. The coolant was dripping throught the bottom post on the driver side, just below the hose, turned out the metal pipe used to cool the AC motor (?) was loose.

Yes, the minute I took the new damper out of the box I knew the old one was deficient and was relieved! The inner hub was pushed inward, toward the engine, which caused the damper to be pushed away from the engine, about an inch. Do not know how long this was in this condition, if the belt hadn't been thrown, I wouldn't have caught it.

The van was given to me by a British Army Officer because of the blown heads, he's rotating back to the UK and did not want to mess with it. If the damper had been like this over a long period of time, this could have lead to the head and IM gasket failures. He also said he replaced the power steering pump, can't believe the mechanic did not spot the problem with the damper.

So far, I've got about $700 into this thing, he owed $150 to the garage that I picked up, the biggest expense was $185 to get the heads planed and pressure checked. Replaced the wires, plugs, head gasket kit, damper, plus had to pay to rent the lift and bay.

I really like this van, it's actually a Pontiac Transport, but the posts are better in the Venture forum, my first new car was a 1987 Pontiac Firebird, and this Transport reminds me of it primarily because of the orange dash lights.