Evo vs. Viper

I was trying to make a 100 octane/beer run before the start of the Warrior's game when I noticed a convertible red Viper merging onto the freeway just ahead of me. My buddy's egging me on to catch up but, partially due to the fact I've been having Viper wet-dreams for nearly 15 years now, I was pretty sure I would get my ass handed to me.

http://www.affordableexotics.com/94Viper6k.jpg

But I obliged my buddy and eventually pulled next to the Viper and, to my suprise, the guy driving was probably in his mid 30's. So instantly I'm jealous and I hate this guy for having a nicer car than me so I tell my buddy to get his attention. We go back and forth for a few miles trying hear each other at 75mph. It was a '94 Viper and he's the 2nd owner. That's all I know about the car. Needless to say he didn't ask me much about my car. :shakehead

But nevertheless he agreed to have a little run when we get up the Altamont Pass and clear of the traffic in the Valley. Well this fucker punches it the first sniff of open roads he gets. I was in 5th instead of 4th so I let him go but...aha...he had tipped his hand and I have to say...I was not that impressed. It may be an exotic, a 10 year old exotic, but it didn't pull as hard as I'd expected. It also sounded like a UPS truck. :iceslolan

We found some space for a few runs...nothing you could call a legit side-by-side, on the count of three, type of race though...unfortunately. The best one started with him about 2 cars in front of me and 2 lanes over. I was in 4th doing about 4k RPM's and I punched it when he pulled his outstretched hand down - like he was signalling a start. I definately pulled and was pulling when he slowed down to negotiate a gradual turn. From 70mph to 100mph I had put my passenger door on his left rear tire. If I road 4th out (120mph) it felt like I could have pulled maybe a CL on him. I may never know. In any event I wanted to post this for you guys. I don't think I'm the only one who figured they were a little faster.

My mods are all the bolt-ons, IX turbo, cams and a 100 octane tune. Instead of telling you my dyno numbers (321whp/307wtq) I'll just let you know that this car dyno'd 323whp on the same dyno about 45 minutes before I was tuned. Here's a pic my tuner posted on his website...

http://www.speedelement.com/images/dyno/dynoday1032.JPG

Hmm, pretty impressive. The 94 Vipers weren't all that badass. The 96+ ones you gotta watch out for. I know you are on a pessimistic dyno, but the 96+ versions actually had alot more then 450hp. Alot of them have dynoed around 390+whp on a dynojet, so it's obviously over the 450 flywheel horsepower quoted by the manufacturer.

Anyways, good kill. I'm sure your evo must be a blast to drive.

Yeah it sounds like I would be in trouble with anything after the 1st generation. I'm trying find the Viper's curb weight online right now. I wonder if the 1st generation coupe (was there even one?) was any lighter than the vert.

The Evo is fun, thanks. Not much else I plan to do powerwise...maybe a 20G down the line and some no-tick lifters to eliminate some of the false knock the ECU is hearing when we try to tune. I'm gonna concentrate on suspension next with the hope of tracking the car at some point this summer. I've got a set of KW3 coilovers and Tein camber plates I'm planning to install either this weekend or next, then I'll get the car corner balanced and aligned.

IIRC, the RT-10s had 450hp? Considering the weight difference, I'm not surprised at all.

GT46R Turbo and a good tune with some methane injection from AMS and Vipers won't be a problem, lol.

GT46R Turbo and a good tune with some methane injection from AMS and Vipers won't be a problem, lol.

Pretty sure 46R is overkill. 42R is sufficient.

Coulda been a 42...I'm trying to remeber the video and I can't find it where Chris's AMS EVO runs one of the new SRT-10s and pulls out a bit on the top end.

Actually, nix that. It was still on the GT35R with the 2.3L Stroker kit at the time, and the Viper had a Paxton Novi 2000 on it. Least, thats what the video says. He doesn't pull on the Viper, but he is walking it down hard, and the Viper had about a car or so head start.

Actually, nix that. It was still on the GT35R with the 2.3L Stroker kit at the time, and the Viper had a Paxton Novi 2000 on it. Least, thats what the video says. He doesn't pull on the Viper, but he is walking it down hard, and the Viper had about a car or so head start.


That sounds about right. But even with the stroker and 35R running c16, that car prolly only be pushing around 600 hp at most. Then again 600 Hp on EVO = sick ass mofo car!

638AWHP@35psi vs. 668rear in the Viper. Evo also had four people in the car.

638AWHP@35psi vs. 668rear in the Viper. Evo also had four people in the car.

Damn 35 psi, didn't think the 35 R can sustain that safely. Are we still talking about the same EVO here?

Good runs steiner!



Hondachilli Im soo jealous dude. Your supra looks real clean!

hondachili, i showed you that video!!!! remember there was two versions? one was the filmed from the viper, and the other one was filmed in the evo. both versions showed that as the evo was gaining on him, the viper let off and started cheering like "yeah!!! we got him!!"

but on the evo's side, they were laughing becasue after when the viper shut down, the camera man turned the camera around and it shows 2 passengers in the back seat!

same AMS evo that was destroying everything. and that was when it was running just a GT35R, now its running a GT42R making 45 psi with 9500rpm of revs and 1000whp.

now back to the topic, the first gen vipers only had 400 crank hp so yeah steiner's evo should take that win no doubt about it.

TAT, you showed me way too many videos. I can't remmeber them all. All I know is that the AMS evo before they hit the 1000 mark had a 35 R in it. And yes with those upgrades Evos should be reeling in vipers.


Racer D12 - Thanks very much. Trust me, the picture hides away the imperfections. :)

kinda off topic but hey stiener since your in our area you should go to kingdon race way this weekend...

TAT, you showed me way too many videos. I can't remmeber them all. All I know is that the AMS evo before they hit the 1000 mark had a 35 R in it. And yes with those upgrades Evos should be reeling in vipers.


Racer D12 - Thanks very much. Trust me, the picture hides away the imperfections. :)

hahah not as much of the random shit you show me from youtube or video.google.

Thanks 209. Greg sent me a PM aleady. Unfotunately I'm tied up both Saturday and Sunday. Good luck though. Post some pics and video if you can!

The 35R should not ever be taken to 35psi. That is way past charted impeller speeds and efficiency regions.

I have seen the 35R make as much as 633whp. I personally would go past 27psi if I were trying for 600whp, just from looking at the map.

The GT4202 on the other hand could do 35psi easily. In fact, that is optimal boost level for maximum power. With supporting VE mods, that is where it will have the potential to make 900whp, maybe a tad over. The 94mm, it should also stay at around 27psi to make maximum power.

Of course, there is that exceptional dyno that shows each turbo making more than what I posted.. I like to not max my turbos, and stay on the efficiency islands.

The 35R should not ever be taken to 35psi. That is way past charted impeller speeds and efficiency regions.

I have seen the 35R make as much as 633whp. I personally would go past 27psi if I were trying for 600whp, just from looking at the map.


:boink:

Thats what I said.

I thought you were going with some HKS cams steiner? Last time I remember talking with you, you were looking into a 264/272 set up. So, decide to drop that and opt for something else? :)

:boink:

Thats what I said.

I simply said I wouldn't exceed 27psi. If I made 620whp at 27psi, so be it. I'm always down for efficiency.. The Evo heads may just let that happen as well. Esp with that fast-burn technology incorporated into the combustion chamber design. They can pull timing WAY back.. So high IATs aren't such a problem. But then again, burning magnesium in the combustion chamber isn't enough to initiate a flame front with C16..hehe And VP import is even better..

I've recently been reading about some of these 42R's pumping out more than 50psi for 1000whp on a 4G63 but it seems like most are running between 35psi and 40psi depending on the supporting mods. What are the limits of the efficiency range on that thing?

I thought you were going with some HKS cams steiner? Last time I remember talking with you, you were looking into a 264/272 set up. So, decide to drop that and opt for something else? :)I had those installed, along with some cam gears, a few months back. Next to the 100 octane tune, that's still probably my favorite mod. It really opened up the top end and gave the whole car a whole different feel on the freeway. Here's the full list of mods on the car...

Tanabe 70mm downpipe, RRE Rally Cat, RS*R ExMag exhaust, K&N filter, JDM MR BOV, Hallman MBC, HKS 264in/272ex cams, Acme cam gears, Nisei lower intercooler pipe, OEM 16G IX turbo, WORKS 30% STS, Kartboy shifter base and underhood bushings, Kartboy shift knob & Hotchkis 24mm rear sway bar and various tunes by Andy at Speed Element.

A set of KW Variant 3 coilovers are sitting in my kitchen right now slowly destroying my marriage but they're going in on the 2nd - along with Tein camber plates. Mods in the pipeline are JAM no-tick lifters, GM 3 port boost solenoid, EvoGreen turbo and an AMS intercooler.

People do it and I will not disagree with it making power. But given the compressor maps, that is a very substantial overspeed. NTM, a lot of those guys are running extremely high octane fuel like VP import, so the IAT increases caused by traveling that far out of the efficiency islands can be negated by the octane rating and quick-burn technology combustion chambers allowing low timing advance. Pressure will increase flow, no doubt about that. But I would rather not tax such a pricey piece of equipment that is doing something it was not designed to do.

35psi is exactly what you should run to near 1000whp. Given it isn't charted to make 1000whp, that would be the "best of the worst" area to be. You would need crazy good VE to even near 1000whp at 35psi even on a 2.3L stroked 4G63... Thank Mitsubishi for an already outstanding head design.

For 1000whp and above, the GT4788-R is probably your next stop. I would buy this turbo if I planned on making over 800whp. But thats me. The GT45R will touch 1000whp if you think you are gonna stop right when you make 1000whp. Who stops?

All of these turbos come with the same AR options for turbine side, so there is really no reason to buy one over the other for spool unless you think that inertia related boost threshold increase of like... nothing, matters..

But I obliged my buddy and eventually pulled next to the Viper and, to my suprise, the guy driving was probably in his mid 30's. So instantly I'm jealous and I hate this guy for having a nicer car than me so I tell my buddy to get his attention.

i've seen '94 vipers on autotrader dip into the $25k's, and they can easily be had in good condition in the $30's.

Hmm, pretty impressive. The 94 Vipers weren't all that badass. The 96+ ones you gotta watch out for. I know you are on a pessimistic dyno, but the 96+ versions actually had alot more then 450hp. Alot of them have dynoed around 390+whp on a dynojet, so it's obviously over the 450 flywheel horsepower quoted by the manufacturer.

i thought 97 was when they really beefed them up.

kinda off topic but hey stiener since your in our area you should go to kingdon race way this weekend...How did you and Greg do last weekend?

Just wanted to bump this with some pics of the car on the new KW3 coilovers. Man what a difference! I'm still dialing everything in (it takes a while with the 2 way adjustable setups I'm told) but at 75% it performs like the car did at 95% on the stock suspension...

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3092/mitsulogo001mc0.jpg

:eek: rusted rotors on such a beauty?

he probably just washed the car, and didnt use the brakes yet, it's wat happens wen metal and water mix

{runs out to look at car}

Yeah they look good now. I think vectorspecialist nailed it. I had finished washing the car 30 seconds before I snapped that pic.

yea had the same problem with a pic of my stealth, just started it went into reverse, down the driveway, hit the brake, and went back up, all good now

yeah, but they shouldn't rust that fast.

Usually it takes a few weeks of sitting to get that much rust built up, then a few stops to wipe them clean.

I have rust on my brakes, which really pisses me off seeing as I just had them (rotors and pads) replaced about a month ago.

What is Rust? Never heard of it.

Garaged kept always :iceslolan

i have rust sitting on my stealths brakes and it hasnt been washed since last wk, and it was used the other day, now it just sits till i get my 944 in a wk