Cobalt SS supercharge or the dodge srt.. which has the most upgrading potential

Im tring to decied on the two I think im more for the cobalt I like the looks alot better and I just dont like the idea of buying a neon even though its suppose to kick the cobalts ass I dont think by much though

stock SRT4 and Stock SS are pretty much a drivers race. Although im think the SRT4 is a bit faster, by like .2-.3 tenths of a second in the quarter mile. As far as upgrading to pure raw power potential. Id say the SRT4. It wasnt made to be anything but fast. THe SS is a bit more than speed but still has alot of potential to upgrade. My SS should be a high 13 second car when i learn to drive a tad bit better and ive spent a total of 300 dollars in mods.

The SRT4 takes better to mods by far. Thats usually what happens when you have a turbo charged car.

The Cobalt SS S/c is no longer in production for model year 08. Which is also true with the SRT4, it was gone in 06. The SRT4 has better after market support.

but in late 08 early 09 the cobalt will have a turbo

but in late 08 early 09 the cobalt will have a turbo

Theres never been any truth to that. Cobaltss.net were saying Turbo Cobalt for 2008, and after months of telling them it won't happen people started creating fake "evidence" as to it coming. And now look at the 2008 Cobalt lineup, not even an SS model, you'll have LS LT and Sport.

The fact is there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that the Cobalt will be Turbo'd in any model year.

But there is evidence to show the Cobalt won't last past 2009 model year.

i live in dearborn michigan and right outside of detroit. I know many people that work for GM and help design and test the cars GM makes. Trust me, there will be a turbo cobalt.

Trust me, there will be a turbo cobalt.

I think your lyin'...:nono:

...and I live in Snow Hill, NC. So THERE!!!

:rolleyes:

I think your lyin'...:nono:

...and I live in Snow Hill, NC. So THERE!!!

:rolleyes:
i dont give a rats ass what you think, cause you obviously dont know why dearborn michigan has by far the largest significance to the automotive world of any city in the world. Ive seen prototype cars that you never even knew existed.

i think gm would have had better sell numbers if the dealers didn't mark up the price 2-3k. every cobalt ss/sc i've looked into cost 23-24k. Not a fair price for a car thats suppose to cost you 20-21k. I think if the sc cobalt sold for 20k even it woulda done much better. On the same note though most ppl will go to dodge for an srt-4 cause it's cheaper and better in almost every way. When the sc cobalt first came out i didn't even know they were being sold for months. theres not many of them around here. i don't think they sold well around here.

i think gm would have had better sell numbers if the dealers didn't mark up the price 2-3k. every cobalt ss/sc i've looked into cost 23-24k. Not a fair price for a car thats suppose to cost you 20-21k. I think if the sc cobalt sold for 20k even it woulda done much better. On the same note though most ppl will go to dodge for an srt-4 cause it's cheaper and better in almost every way. When the sc cobalt first came out i didn't even know they were being sold for months. theres not many of them around here. i don't think they sold well around here.

please explain why you think srt4 is better in almost every way?

Well first off it's a turbo car and the cobalt is a roots type blower which is limitted to the amount of boost it can produce. roots type blowers also have cooling issues.the srt-4 has bigger displacment,front mount intercooler, and a very stout motor. Each stage kit produces greater power then the cobalt stage kits. stock for stock it's much faster. after 03 they came standard with a limitted slip. the cobalt you have to pay a grand more to get that. which brings me to the price. thousands less for the srt4. the cobalt supposedly handles better stock for stock, but the srt4 has independent rear suspention. if i'm not mistaken the cobalts have a torsion beam or whatever the proper name for it is. In my opinion the seats in the srt4 are much nicer too. i have more reasons why i think the srt4 is better this is just some of them. i'm not a big srt4 fan, but it's definately the better bang for the buck. i'm guess thats probably why the cobalt didn't do so great in the market. that and the imports out there.

ehh all your arguments are on power and performance. The cobalt wasnt made to compete with the SRT4. It was made to compete with things like the Civic Si, VW Jetta, and other more refined compacts. I personally think the Cobalt is much better looking and the interior is much more comfortable. The Recaro seats and very nice. The upgrade isnt bad, i have the LSD and Recaro seats, finale sticker was 21,000. ABout the same for the SRT4. Cobalt handles alot nice and the ride is alot nicer as well.

HP per liter the Cobalt makes more. Turbos are limited by the amount of boost they can make, just like blowers. Not really a heat issue since the car comes with a water-air intercooler.

A turbo Cobalt will own a Turbo SRT4. Mild turbo kits on cobalts are netting around 300WHP.

SRT4 is definitely bigger bang for the buck when it comes to pure speed, cobalt is a much better all around car when your looking for bang for your buck.

SRt4 has mroe displacement but isnt as efficient.

I copied this from another forum, but lets you know how efficient the cobalt 2.0 ecotec engine is compared to other boosted cars. Also remember, most cobalts dyno around 215WHP, thats about 240 crank HP stock. Or about 120HP per liter. That would make the Cobalt SS Supercharged the 4th most powerful bang for you buck forced induction engine on the market today.

There has been much debate on many forum's about the output of GM's new Supercharged 2.0L Ecotec. Is it enough power for a 2.0L? Well since I was bored at work today, I went through my Car and Driver 2005 Buyers Guide and calculated the Horsepower per Litre numbers for every supercharged and turbo charged car. here is the results ranked in order.

1. Mercedes Maclearn SLR. 5.4L 617HP = 114.26HP/L
2. Mercedes C230 1.8L 189HP = 105.00HP/L (tie)
2. Mini Cooper S 1.6L 168HP = 105.00HP/L (tie)
4. Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 3.2L 330HP = 103.16HP/L
5. Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged
/ Saturn ION Red line 2.0L 205HP = 102.50HP/L
6. Ford GT 5.4L 550HP = 101.85HP/L
7. Mosler MT900 5.7L 560HP = 98.25HP/L
8. Jaguar XKR/XJR/S type-R 4.2L 390HP = 92.86HP/L
9. Mercedes CL55/S55/SL55 5.4L 493HP = 91.30HP/L (tie)
9. Panoz Esperante 4.6L 420HP = 91.30HP/L (tie)
11. Mercedes E55 5.4L 469HP = 86.85HP/L
12. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 3.8L 260HP = 68.42HP/L
13. Buick Park Avenue/Chevrolet Impala SS/
Monte Carlo SS S/C 3.8L 240HP = 63.16HP/L :huh?:

So the Cobalt has the 5th most HP/L out of all North American Supercharged Production cars. And if you notice 3 of the cars that beat it were Mercedes, whose AMG arm Supercharge everything under the sun. And the cars it makes more power then are a pretty good group too.

Now Turbocharging a car can make power easier and usually results in higher numbers of HP/L. I have made a list of ALL THE SUPERCHARGED AND TURBOCHARGED cars sold in North America rank best to worst. Again the Cobalt fares pretty well.

1. Mitsubishi EVO VIII 2.0L 276HP = 138.00HP/L Turbo
2. Porsche 911 Turbo 3.6L 457HP = 126.94HP/L Turbo
3. Audi TT Quattro 1.8L 225HP = 125.00HP/L Turbo
4. Subaru WRX STi 2.5L 300HP = 120.00HP/L Turbo (tie)
4. Volvo S60R/V70R 2.5L 300HP = 120.00HP/L Turbo (tie)
6. Mercedes Maclearn SLR. 5.4L 617HP = 114.26HP/L Super
7. Subaru WRX 2.0L 227HP = 113.50HP/L Turbo
8. Saab 9-5 Aero 2.3L 250HP = 108.70HP/L Turbo
9. Vovlo S60/ V70 2.4L 257HP = 107.08HP/L Turbo
10. Mercedes C230 1.8L 189HP = 105.00HP/L Super (tie)
10. Mini Cooper S 1.6L 168HP = 105.00HP/L Super (tie)
10. Saab 9-3 Aero 2.0L 210HP = 105.00HP/L Turbo (tie)
13. Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 3.2L 330HP = 103.16HP/L Super
14. Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged
/ Saturn ION Red line 2.0L 205HP[/B ] = 102.50HP/L Super
15. Ford GT 5.4L 550HP = 101.85HP/L Super
16. Mercedes CL65/SL65 6.0L 604HP = 100.67HP/L Turbo
17. Subaru Legacy GT 2.5L 250HP = 100.00HP/L Turbo (tie)
17. Volkswagen/Audi Jetta/ Golf GTi/TT 1.8L 180HP = 100.00HP/L Turbo (tie)
18. Mazda Mazdaspeed Miata 1.8L 178HP = 98.89HP/L Turbo
19. Maybach 57/62 5.5L 543HP = 98.73HP/L Turbo
20. Mosler MT900 5.7L 560HP = 98.25HP/L Super
21. Dodge SRT-4 2.4L 230HP = 95.83HP/L Turbo
22. Saab 9-5 Arc 2.3L 220HP = 95.65HP/L Turbo
23. Audi/Volkswagen A4/Passat 1.8L 170HP = 94.44HP/L Turbo
24. Jaguar XKR/XJR/S type-R 4.2L 390HP = 92.86HP/L Super
25. Audi All Road 2.7L 250HP = 92.54HP/L Turbo
26. Volvo S80 2.5L 208HP = 92.41HP/L Turbo
27. Bentley Continnental GT 6.0L 551HP = 91.83HP/L Turbo
28. Chrysler PT Cruiser GT 2.4L 220HP = 91.67HP/L Turbo
29. Mercedes CL55/S55/SL55 5.4L 493HP = 91.30HP/L Super (tie)
29. Panoz Esperante 4.6L 420HP = 91.30HP/L Super (tie)
31. Mercedes CL600/SL600/S600 5.5L 493HP = 89.64HP/L Turbo
32. Mercedes E55 5.4L 469HP = 86.85HP/L Super
33. Saab 9-3 2.0L 170HP = 85.00HP/L Turbo
34. Vovlo V70/S80/S60 2.5L 208HP = 83.20HP/L Turbo
35. Volkswagen Turbo Beetle 1.8L 150HP = 83.00HP/L Turbo
36. Volvo S40/V50 2.5L 218HP = 80.74HP/L Turbo
37. PT Cruiser Touring 2.4L 180HP = 75.00HP/L Turbo
38. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 3.8L 260HP = 68.42HP/L Super
39. Bentley Arnage 6.8L 450HP = 66.18HP/L Turbo
40. Buick Park Avenue/Chevrolet Impala SS/
Monte Carlo SS S/C 3.8L 240HP = 63.16HP/L Super

You got a good deal at 21k cause here they are marked up a ton. with the options you have i saw one marked at 23k and i saw one sc at 24k at another dealership. As far as boost goes with a turbo. the srt4 can boost 20 plus psi and thats a very small turbo. when i was looking around at cobalts i believe i read 18psi with a stage two or three. i mean whats the max moost you can run with the stock blower setup? i know you can get different trim blowers put on but from what i read you couldn't run much more boost. The thing with the cobalt is is that it isn't setup for a turbo. you'll have to get an entirely different intake manifold. i didn't even know they made turbo kits for them i'd actually be interested in checking that out. I'm sure the ecotec 2.0 is built tough and can handle some big numbers but it's limmitted by that blower setup. the 2.4 srt4 motor is also very tough, in fact i might be so bold as to say 500hp on the stock block, as i've read and heard by many. maybe even more now.

ehh 500HP on a stock block is really pushing it. The stock blower can make upwards of 21PSI. Problem is theres alot of heat. Yeah it needs an intake manifold for boost, but thats not really that hard or expensive. A few companies make them. The thing about the cobalt is, its got a blower on it, which means the engine is making alot more power, but its spending alot of hp to make the power.

It takes 30HP to turn 10PSI on the blower, so people like me pushing 16 PSI are losing somewhere around 50HP to the blower. A turbo swap would instantly put my car at 300WHP. Most people who do a mild turbo swap are making 300WHP easily.

The Ecotecs block is really strong, GM has a build book to build the block to 1000HP while keeping about 65% of the internals stock. The stock internals are only good for around 350WHP or so. BUt that is really no confirmed yet cause most people who blew there motors did it was a pulley that was to small and was making to much heat. A turbo should be different.

A the 2.0 Ecotec not setup for a turbo? Its the same engine thats in the Solstice GXP thats turbocharged. Same engine as the Saab 95 Turbos. This engine was designed for turbos, GM supercharged to try to do something different.

way i see it is that the srt 4 is already a turbo car so thats less work right there. you can get a stage two kit for 1100 bucks brand new. i rather buy the srt4 instead of buying a cobalt switching it over to a turbo setup and then starting all over. plus what would you tune the cobalt with? I think the cobalt is setup nice with the supercharger and there are cheap easy mods to get some good power out of them, but your gonna reach a point where more boost isn't gonna help cause your super charger is making too much heat. With a turbo setup you just get a big front mount and boost away. I'd rather get a solstice GXP. rwd turbo car thats fairly light weight. Don't get me wrong the cobalt is good, but if your cost contious, and wanna make real power cheap you go with a srt4. i'm just putting it out there.

I just want to take a jump into this if i could. I am actually deciding between various different cars to buy right now but I have it pretty much narrowed down to either the SS/SC or the SRT-4. Yesterday I got to drive the SS/SC and it definately felt like a solid car. It handled nicely, had decient power, interior was respectable, and it had a pretty clean look over all. I have yet to test drive the SRT-4 but from every single person I have talked to who has driven both said that the SRT-4 is noticably faster. And I am split in the fact that I do like the rear end on the Cobalt better but I like the front end with eyelids better on the SRT-4. I also like the fact that the SRT-4 is turbo'd instead of s/c'd, but that is a personal preference. Another thing that has come to concern is that if I had plans to mod down the road I have heard that the 2.0L Ecotec has trouble holding down over 300fwhp. In fact, if I recall correctly, the GM build up book does not reccomend you go past that. Even when I was watching videos between the two the SS/SC blew a ring due to it weaker internals than the SRT-4. I think in pure handling the Cobalt SS/SC takes the trophy though as it has a better weight split and from what I experienced a well-tuned suspension. Something I think they both could have done better in (especially the SRT-4) is tire width. The SRT-4 is wearing 205's and the SS/SC is wearing 215's. IMO it would have been nice to see 225's on each of them so that traction would not be as big of an issue as it is. That is just my .02

i agree on the tire comment. my buddy just bought 225 for his srt-4 and he still has horrible traction issues, even at the track. 205's are just a waste. with his 225's on he managed a 60ft of 2.1, but for the most part was pulling 2.3's. he does have a stage two and was running high octane. i think after market tires and wheels are a must if you wanna get the most out of your car. espically any FWD car.

My cars easy just hold the brake to stay in place and mash the gas. i only have 235's on my formula and i pull 2.0's all day long.

they are already pretty much both at a max for safe engine operation but id say the srt4 because if you replace the two smaller turbos and replace with one big one you can get more boost with less stress and the intercooler would cool it easier but thats just what i think

the srt4 only has one turbo. it is pretty small too. it's still good for 300whp. my buddy is running the stock turbo and he has around 300-350whp on high octane gas. he ran a 13.5 on high octane last month with horrible traction issues and just a stage two w/o turbo upgrades. i think if he throws on some drag radials he'd do much better. not to mention some suspention upgrades.

they are already pretty much both at a max for safe engine operation but id say the srt4 because if you replace the two smaller turbos and replace with one big one you can get more boost with less stress and the intercooler would cool it easier but thats just what i think

umm no. . .

stock srt4 engine can handle around 350WHP
Stock SS/SC engine can handle around 350WHP.

THey have lots of room to improve

and wtf are you talking about 2 turbos? How many turbos do you think the car has?

i'm pretty sure i've read and heard that the srt-4 bottom end is good for 500 hp. I'm possitive it's over 350whp. you can get 300whp with a stage three on high octane. So it's deffinately built to hold much more then that.

sure, horsepower per litre is a nice thing to stack up against each other...but wieght and compression ratios and other factors fall in as well... A 350 in a cobalt against a 350 in a mini cooper would totally prove my point.....and be freaking amazing to watch!

the new cobalts for 2009 are gonna b turbo charged which i think sucks. but anyway the srt4 is not that great on acceleration the cobalt takes off right off the line my bro has a ss s/c stock and beat a srt4 with things done to it. so also beat a mustang with slicks and 150 shot of nitrous

First thing I would do is get a insurance quote on the srt because it is expensive! I own a 2004 srt-4 and I love the car, it's quick, fast and easy to mod, but it also will catch the cops eye everytime you go buy one so they are a ticket getter, I get stopped at least once a year in it.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/littlebluerocket/b75ea103.jpg

I ended up buying a 2007 LT cobalt for the winter months because the SRT-4 is crappy in the snow with the quaffie front end, I must say the Cobalt looks nice but the inside is kinda cheap, lots of plastic. The srt-4 is more comfortable inside I think.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/littlebluerocket/DSC03878.jpg

Just my 2cents worth.

the new cobalts for 2009 are gonna b turbo charged which i think sucks. but anyway the srt4 is not that great on acceleration the cobalt takes off right off the line my bro has a ss s/c stock and beat a srt4 with things done to it. so also beat a mustang with slicks and 150 shot of nitrous

IDK why you do not like the new Cobalts powertrain more as it has more power lol. And I am happy to here that your brother beat a modded SRT-4 with his SS/SC but the SRT-4 is most certainly faster. I have now driven both and without any doubt in my mind the SRT-4 is faster. And he beat a Mustang with a 150 shot and slicks huh? Was it a GT? Unless your brother's SS/SC is highly highly modded he would get his salad tossed by both the modded SRT-4 and definately a 150 shot Mustang. Sorry man, but SS/SC's are usually good for a mid to upper 14 second pass. A good driver in a SS/SC can pull off around a 14.2-14.3 though. Still, it ends up short. ;)

srt-4 domonate sc cobalts. in fact to date i don't think it's possible to make over 300whp with the supercharger setup. most top out at 280-290whp with all the bolt ons and a tune. Stage 3 srt-4 make like 400hp. theres a kid i know at the track he has a stage 3 and he traps 117mph in the 1/4. your not gonna get near that in a cobalt. although i heard the new cobalt ss will have a turbo setup, so things are getting better. i agree the interior on the cobalts are weak and just as bad as my 2000 z24. I replaced all three temp knobs within the three yrs i had the car cause they literaly snapped off. and as far as i know i don't have gorilla hands.

turbo cobalt has potential, but as of right now i wouldnt buy one. The turbo is tiny and maxed from the factory. Its direct injection which means tunning isnt developed for it and is about 100 times more complicated to tune than FI.

The new cobalt power train really doesnt have that much more HP. Everyone knows GM severly under rated the LSJ. Hell i dynoed 236WHP when i was stock, most LNFs are dynoing around 220-240WHP stock. The average dyno for an LSJ is 215is WHP. The main reason the LNF cobalts are running faster times in the quartermile is because of better gearing and no lift shifts. WHich are a nice advantage.

But the motor is going to be stricken with the same limitations of the LSJ. Maybe even more so because your going to be paying more for a car with more stock HP but the same HP limitations. Its the same block, different pistons but still cast instead of forged. With the LNF you wont be able to just simply swap the turbo for something bigger and tune the fuel map. It will require completely retuning the whole ECU/stand alone. Hell you wont even be able to put a BOV on this engine without tunning it.

This engine isnt going to be a tuner friendly car, while yes there will be tunning options for it and it should make some good numbers. Your going to be paying alot for those numbers, more so than with most cars. Im fairly certain its going to be a long time before you see custom tuners on the scene like we have today.

Here is a write up someone did about this engine on cobaltss.net.



From A Cobaltss.net User

Ok well Ive been doing a lot of reading, the hype over the past month for this car has jumped up considerably. (wow I cant spell)
Anyways, a lot of questions are being asked about the whole BOV and tuning situations. A lot of people on you tube and a lot of other forums are talking about immediatly swapping out intercoolers and doing other shit.

Guys this isnt Gran Turismo, its not that easy.

First, unlike bolt on turbo kits that almost every e-learner is familiar with... This turbo, the engine (including the tranny), is plugged into the computer. The car monitors everything. You change anything (other then basics like intake/exhaust), your gonna throw a code. The car will go into limp mode (which I'll explain later) so you will not damage the car.
In order to mod this car beyond basics, proper tuning will be needed.

Now lets talk about this "proper tuning".
First, the future looks extremely cloudy about GM stage Kits for this car...
Reason being- theres no more pulleys or BS...
Second- Tuning, remapping, or mostly known as "chipping" will not qualify a reason to get a BOV. "why is that? I know plenty of people running small boost and chipped and have a BOV on there VW" BECAUSE THIS CAR IS NOT A P.O.S. VW!!!
There software is completly different. Your software, turbo, engine, and tranny are all Sweden based... Not german, Now what company does GM own that hails from Sweden??
SAAB. Almost everything is Saab based... this engine that was first introduced on the solstice gxp, is the same 2.0T in a Saab 9-3 just re-tuned and different tiny parts (like the intake)...
So if you do 2+2, this engine actually came out in 03 when the new Saab 9-3 Arc/Vector came out.
Third Chipping and remapping will make your car perfect for downpipes, getting rid of the boost nanny, maybe uping the p.s.i. a bit, and intercoolers... Just choose the right software (Stage 1 is usually just the tune itself, Stage 2 is I/D/E + tune, Stage 3 is usually boost tuning + I/D/E + intercooler)


If you plan on upgrading the turbo further down the road and doing the entire swap, you'll need a stand alone ecu for it, and even then it will still be hard to trick the cars computer thinking its still the stock turbo... in which then, you may get a BOV.

Simple as pie, piece of cake...

Back to limp mode
Limp mode means you'll prob be limited to 3k (meaning thats your new redline) and your boost will prob be completely cut off... Resulting in very little power and a dealer trip to erase the code (maybe fix something if something needs fixing) and a recording in there system that you just fucked with the car voiding the powetrain warrenty. If you just did intake and exhaust, they'll have to prove that those mods were the cause, but re-tuning the ecu and mods beyond that will void your warrenty... almost no way around it.



I didnt cover everything I wanted to because its late, but please feel free to ask any questions if you have them, like I said in other posts Ive been dealing with this engine for just about 5 years...
Mods and supervisors if you feel ranting was going on feel free to edit anything I said or if you feel I was very helpful to anybody feel free to sticky...

man sounds like this new cobalt is gonna blow. freakin gm can't get it right still! They can never come up with their own good stuff. they use holden, or saab.

Its direct injection which means tunning isnt developed for it and is about 100 times more complicated to tune than FI..
:confused: It still should be swapping a set of injecters and a program....What do you mean? How?

(yes I read the quote, other than what someone said, do you have any other articles?)

:confused: It still should be swapping a set of injecters and a program....What do you mean? How?

(yes I read the quote, other than what someone said, do you have any other articles?)

i dont think injectors are swapable on direct injection motors, even at that there is no need to swap injectors, they have alot of room to improve. The problem is the tunning. From ive been told from people that i know to be very good tuners, tunning direct injector is nothing like tunning normal fuel injection. Its alot more complicated.

This engine pretty much incorporates everything into its tune. Its constantly adjusting its tune. The ECU is programed to try to keep the engine at a constant 260TQ, if it notices a slight decrease in power, it will increase the boost of the turbo to compensate. Likewise if its seeing to much power it will lower the boost of the turbo. If the ECU can not control the TQ power properly the car goes into limp mode.

And this goes for all other parts of the car that are tied into the ECU. This isnt like other cars where you can throw a bigger turbo on it and tune the fuel maps, you throw a bigger turbo on the ecu wont understand how to control the turbo and will go into limp mode. Even putting a blow off valve on this car cant be done with the stock ecu, because the ecu will see a sudden drop in boost and think something is wrong and limp mode it goes.

And you cant just program an ECU anyway you want, you can only program it within the guidelines of the factory tune. So you cant take the stock ECU and eliminate the TQ limiter, you need to reprogram it. You need to reprogram all the values that would normally set it into limp mode ontop of tunning the ECU.

Its not as simple as having a MAP sensor report to the ECU how much pressure and air is coming into the engine then the ECU checks its fuel map and says it needs this much fuel. Now the Map sensor reports, it checks the fuel map, checks how much PSI is coming it, determines how much TQ that is going to make, adjust the turbo to compensate to make the proper TQ.

now im not 100% on this information, im not a tuner. THis is just information i have gathered from friends and reading.

From ive been told from people that i know to be very good tuners, tunning direct injector is nothing like tunning normal fuel injection. Its alot more complicated.

The ECU is programed to try to keep the engine at a constant 260TQ, if it notices a slight decrease in power, it will increase the boost of the turbo to compensate. Likewise if its seeing to much power it will lower the boost of the turbo. If the ECU can not control the TQ power properly the car goes into limp mode..
While it may be apples and oranges, I can only compare this with my diesel experience.
I am having trouble with the "complicated" part. In a diesel if you want more power (for the most part here) you add more holes in the tip of the injecter. Smaller more precise holes. This is for finer atomization and a cleaner burn, and you know what a cleaner burn means...

I also think the aftermarket will quickly come up with a program or even a new ECU all together to eliminate limits on any kind or torque. Even if it means labeling the ECU "for off road use only"...If they can make 500 horse injecters for an antique "B" model Cummins (Dodge pick-ups and a million other things) surely they can make a set for a cobalt...

A limp mode in a gas is similar to a "derate" in a diesel. Which the horsepower and torque are limited till the condition has past....usually an over temp which is common since diesels run hotter than a gas engine. This could also be programmed to wait or ignore whatever condition the programmer decides is irrelevant.

I can see your point, I just have a problem with thinking that no aftermarket company can overcome or eliminate factory short falls...

The only draw to this that I can see is if the EPA steps in, like they did with the O2 eliminators...Even then, there is always someone "smarter"...
....like I said, I could be wrong...:dunno:

well this engine has been out for 2 years now in the solstice GXP and Sky Redline, as well as being the engine in the SAAB 2.0T since like what 93? And there really isnt a solution yet. Yes there are standalones and yes there will be ways around it.

But when it comes down to it, GM didnt build this car to hand to a tuner and say have at it. They built this car just like everyother car they sell, to sell to the general masses. Im sure solutions for all the problems will come out eventually, but like ive been saying its not going to be cheap and its not going to be easy. This isnt a mod friendly car, plain and simple.

Its not to say its dead from the factory, there are ways now of running the stock turbo 21 PSI, which people with the LNF in GXPs have dynoed around 280+WHP. But you also need to remember its a very tiny turbo on that motor.

Im sure the community will come around for it, but i dont think it will be as quick and as strong as you see with alot of new tuners cars. The car is still pretty sweet, motor trend ran a 13.9@102MPH stock. Pretty much Identical to what my stage 2 cobalt ran.

oh so the gxp has the same motor? i think they actually have parts out for the solstic. i know for sure they have cold air intakes, exhaust, and if i am correct they do have a reflash out, but it might be for the base solstic with the 2.4.

oh so the gxp has the same motor? i think they actually have parts out for the solstic. i know for sure they have cold air intakes, exhaust, and if i am correct they do have a reflash out, but it might be for the base solstic with the 2.4.

no they do have those parts out, and yes it is the same engine. You should be able to bolt on an exhaust and intake without much problem. And yes there are flashes for the ECU. But your basically getting a canned tune, which means its a one size fits all tune. And they only have tunes that work with the stock turbo setup.

cool i like the gxp. So is it direct injection? anyhow what is direct injection?

cool i like the gxp. So is it direct injection? anyhow what is direct injection?

jsut as it sounds. Fuel Injection sprays gasoline and the air into the intake manifold right before the intake valves. Direct Injection spays the gasoline directly into the engine cylinder.

i see.. any benefits to this over fuel injection?

i see.. any benefits to this over fuel injection?

supposedly its more efficient and cools down the cylinders better. Kinda like a water inject system.

But there is a disadvantage that i think is going to bite GM in the butt. Direct Injection isnt a new thing to engines, its been around for prolly 10 years or so. One thing that alot of mechanics have started to notice, is with direct injection engines the intake valves are sticking closed and causing major headaches Normally the gasoline passes over the intake valves and acts as a lubricant. But with direct injection motors the gasoline is sprayed directly into the cylinder and never touches in the intake valves. Well mechanics have been finding this to be quit common with direction injection engines is that around 50K miles the valves start to just get dirty and gumed up and start to stick closed and dont open properly. If your valves cant open properly, not enough air gets in, you have a poor running or not at all running car.

I'm so happy i have a project that involves a carb instead of all this insane stuff. couple turns and everything is set to go.