Tamiya Acrylic for body

After finally purchasing an airbrush, I'm realizing why everyone raves about them. I've had automotive paint eat up about 4 bodies this last month so I switched to Tamiya Acrylics (I found a LHS that stocks them). I'm building the Texaco/History Channel GT-EVO and painted it X-1. It's dried for a few days and is generally OK, but I'd like to polish it. I've searched but not found the exact answer.

My question(s):
1) Do I have to shoot X22 clear? I'm planning on putting the decals on over the finished paint and not clearing over them.

2) Is the X-1 durable enough without a clear coat?

3) I'm used to automotive lacquers that polish very nice. Can bare X-1 be polished to a nice shine? Many of the threads I found show X22 polished, but I didn't find anything about the bare acrylic.

4) How long do I have to wait to polish the bare X-1? It's been 70's and sunny here in WI, and I've had it outside drying and in the oven with just the light on (that bulb puts out a ton of heat).

I'm hoping to do a WIP on this car (although it would be a disappointment when compared with the skill displayed on this site). It reminds me of what Darth Vader would drive! Thanks!

I think you would do better with Tamiya's TS Sprays. The acrylics are ok for interiors but are not very durable for polishing on a body. Their X22 can cause the Acrlylic to crack over time or sometimes right away. They also take a very long time to cure properly. You can strip the acrylic with Ammonia which is harmless to the plastic. You may also want to try Testor's new laquers.

I've had nothing but problems with Testors spray cans. The crappy nozzle seems to be the problem. I'll try replacing the nozzle. I've had such good luck with airbrushing that I thought I'd do a body. What paint is used when the body is airbrushed?

Can anyone comment on the questions about drying time, etc?

Looks like it's back to the automotive paints.... The acrylic strips really easy with 90% alcohol. No need for ammonia.

Remember that it is really easy to decant for example, your Testors paint from those crappy spray cans and apply the paint with your airbrush - problem solved :-)

It is posssible to paint and clear bodies with Tamiya X-acrylics (as MPWR showed with his BMW Z) but it it is a toughie and the clear needs to dry and cure for ages.

If the auto paint was eating your bodies, it sounds to me like you weren't using a primer. Am I right?

I was using a primer, but I don't think I allowed it enough time to dry and didn't get a thick enough coat(s). The plastic ended up getting crazed pretty badly. I've saved all the bodies so far, but it took a helluva lotta time to fix. The plastic always seemed to craze after the second coat of color paint.

Does the primer have to be the same brand as the color spray? I'm using brite touch primer (generic at auto zone) with duplicolor paints. For some reason, the white and silver metallic are "hotter" than the other colors. Plus, I don't have the patience for mist coats. I usually cover the body with 2 to 3 coats.

Maybe it's worth the couple extra bucks to pony up for the Tamiya spray cans?

Sometimes the crazing could be due to the reaction between different paint brands. I use acrylics to airbrush my car bodies (sometimes gloss colours from art craft brands, not bad and cheap) with regular purpose primer (works great, not too hot either for plastic), but I wait for a while before polishing. If I want harder surface to polish, I would clear coat using Future polish, it doesn't seem to have problems like the Tamiya acrylic clear does. It cracked once only because I did too thick of a coat and tried to polish it without letting it cure or the paint underneath to dry properly, otherwise it's fine.
Acrylics are not bad except it needs experience and time to practice.
Check this great modeler out, he uses acrylics.

http://www.cifesystem.com/mgallery.html

So back to the original question...can airbrushed Tamiya acrylics be polished and how long do they have to cure for?

Yes tamiya acrylics can be used for body's and they can be polished, but it's not that easy. You should look for some builds of MPWR. Some of his cars are done with acrylics with a verry good result. The big problem with tamiya acrylics is that they are verry fragile if tou want to wet-sand them. The advantage is there ease of use ,non-toxicity and fast curing rate. A few days in normal temperatures and they are completely dry.

So back to the original question...can airbrushed Tamiya acrylics be polished and how long do they have to cure for?
I did answer your original question ;)
There is jsut no golden answer as to "how long is long enough". Not least, it would depend on the ambient temperature where you are drying out your paint. You will just have to wait and test....wait and test...until you are sure it's ok.

That's why I suggest you decant Testors or Tamiya paints and lay them through your airbrush in future. You will reduce your waiting time and have a harder body paint to polish as well. HTH :)

Sorry, it was late....

Last time I decanted paint (automotive lacquer) it sprayed on really poorly. It applied like sand paper. I guess the pressure was wrong maybe?

At any rate, I stripped the paint and will be applying automotive paint and clear.

Thanks!

Er, why did you strip?

Tamiya acrylics can certainly be used to paint bodies. Here are two that I've done with nothing but Tamiya acrylic-

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=502/67954109_0961.JPG

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9228/z30012vb.jpg

Like all media, it has it's strengths and weaknesses. No, it will never be as hard as laquer- but that definately doesn't mean you can't polish it to a blazing shine. You just have to be carefull with it.

As for polishing, both of these have polished X22 clearcoats. But it is always better to have the paint go on smooth then to hope that polishing will clean up flaws and textures. Easily 80% of the time and work I put into body painting is in the actual painting, and polishing is little more than an afterthought. A paint job is either good or crappy long before polishing starts. So if Tamiya acrylic is going on well for you, then by all means use it!

I stripped it because I was impatient. It had only cured about a day in the sun and I tried to polish it. The paint fogged up a little bit and I rubbed through on one of the corners. I just picked up some acrylic enamel auto paint which I've had great success with in the past. I'll stick to acrylics for the interior.

MPWR - that 911 is beautiful. I'm sure you've built more than 2 models-do you use X22 on all of them? If no, what else do you use?

Thanks for the replys.

Sorry, it was late....

Last time I decanted paint (automotive lacquer) it sprayed on really poorly. It applied like sand paper. I guess the pressure was wrong maybe?

Sounds like the paint was too thick. Did you thin the decanted paint before shooting it through your airbrush?

I stripped it because I was impatient. It had only cured about a day in the sun and I tried to polish it. The paint fogged up a little bit and I rubbed through on one of the corners. I just picked up some acrylic enamel auto paint which I've had great success with in the past. I'll stick to acrylics for the interior.
You're going to have a short, frustrating building career if you strip whenever you're impatient. The fogging would have almost definately cleared itself in a couple of days.


MPWR - that 911 is beautiful. I'm sure you've built more than 2 models-do you use X22 on all of them? If no, what else do you use?

Thanks about the 911. I use/have used a number of things. X22 is the only acrylic clear I've had good experiences with (stay away from Future). Lately I've been using my depleating stock of CobraColors acrylic laquers- when they're gone, I'm not sure what I'll turn to next. But I've found that terrific results can be had with just about any type of paint- you just have to learn to use them.

Almost by definition, when you decant paint from spraycans you must reduce it with compatible thinner before airbrushing. Otherwise sandpaper texture or other nasty effects will likely result.

Sounds like the paint was too thick. Did you thin the decanted paint before shooting it through your airbrush?

Didn't thin it. It appeared to be thin enough as it was the consistency of skim milk. Good to know for next time.

You're going to have a short, frustrating building career if you strip whenever you're impatient. The fogging would have almost definately cleared itself in a couple of days.

Going to have? It's already here!!! It is frustrating, but it's a hobby so I put up with it. My "modelling skills" were much better before I found this forum. Before the days of knowing about orange peel, 50 shades of red for Ferraris, having to polish....:naughty: I got in this hobby to learn to be patient, but so far it's a collosal failure. I still enjoy it though. I'd like to post some pics and get feedback, but the stuff on this site blows me away. It's humbling. If I wasn't so penny-wise, dollar foolish, I'd just buy Tamiya TS paints. But where would the fun be in that???

Going to have? It's already here!!! It is frustrating, but it's a hobby so I put up with it. My "modelling skills" were much better before I found this forum. Before the days of knowing about orange peel, 50 shades of red for Ferraris, having to polish....:naughty: I got in this hobby to learn to be patient, but so far it's a collosal failure. I still enjoy it though. I'd like to post some pics and get feedback, but the stuff on this site blows me away. It's humbling. If I wasn't so penny-wise, dollar foolish, I'd just buy Tamiya TS paints. But where would the fun be in that???

Well if you've come here to learn patience, more power to you, grasshopper. :wink:

But seriously, the two most important commodities in building are patience and practice. All of the skills you see performed here can be learned- in fact, they have to be learned, as noone can do them the first time (except maybe Stevenski, sometimes). But it takes doing it, and part of it is accepting the time it takes and the mistakes that learning brings. And it may sound trite, but patience is especially crucial. Since I've slowly taught myself to set the model DOWN and leave it ALONE FOR NOW, my skills have improved immeasurably. Especially in body painting. I regularly have bodies that take a month or more to paint (not to speak of polishing), and I simply cannot do any body in less than 4 or 5 straight days. But damnit if they don't come out now- and I don't strip paint anymore (which saves money). It just simply cannot be done fast.

TS is a great product, and a terrific 'set of training wheels' for learning to body paint. Sure it may cost you $7 a can, but use it right and you can often get two bodies out of a can. And I would happily pay more than $3.50 for a good paint job, anytime.

But damnit if they don't come out now- and I don't strip paint anymore (which saves money).

Saving money in this hobby? Go figure. I can't imagine not having to strip paint. It's like a ritual for me. Sometimes I'll do a body 4 or 5 times!

I'm contemplating hitting this body with some oven cleaner. I sprayed it with the automotive acrylic enamel which I've had great success with in the past. It went on glossy, but dried dull even after the 2 mist and 1 wet coat like the instructions say. The clear, same type from same manufacturer (duplicolor) goes on like skim milk and clears up but never gets glossy. I'm resisting the urge to strip.... Must...wait...one...more...day.... :icon16:

Yeah, let's see if we can hold off on the stripping, and work with what you have meanwhile.

How are you applying the paint and clear- spraycan or airbrush?

And how long did you wait between paint and clearcoat?

It's very possible that the clearcoat can be brought to shine with some polsihing, or perhaps with a thicker base of clearcoat.

I'm thinking about trying automotive paint over Tamiya primer. Are they compatible?
Didymus

How are you applying the paint and clear- spraycan or airbrush?
Spray can for both color coat and clear coat.

And how long did you wait between paint and clearcoat?
Waited 10 mins between each color coat (2 mist and 1 wet). Then waited 15 minutes before applying a mist and wet coat of clear (also 10 mins apart). This is what the duplicolor can recommended doing. I think there is a problem with the clear can as the ball doesn't actually rattle, even after shaking it for 5 mins. It goes on milky and then clears up. One part of the body has a hazy film on it. It seems it will come off with some polishing.

The color coat went on a bit thick though. The panel lines were partially filled and the hood pins are nothing more than blobs. I think it is going to be stripped after all...

Here is a picture with body primed.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/wallacesells/DSC02266Small.jpg

Here is a picture of the hood pins after painting.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/wallacesells/DSC02267Small.jpg


They are just blobs of paint with no definition to them. I think my wet coat was sprayed too closely to the body. For the wet coat, should you be the same distance from the body and just sweep by more slowly? Is the distance from the can to the body the same for mist and wet coats?

Too thick, and waaaaay too fast. Relax man, it's not a race. There are no points for getting into the stripping tank first. :grinno:

First off, it looks like you're having trouble with 'wet' coats. Everyone has their own favorite methods, but I never apply a heavy wet coat. Everything I spray gets built up in light or medium mist coats. Wet coats may give you the instant satisfaction of having it come out shiney NOW, but if you fill in details you've ruined the paintjob. They can be extremely difficult to control, and really aren't necessary. Do it all in steady, even mists. And give it 30-60 minutes in between mist coats.

Second, never apply primer, paint or clearcoat in the same day. Just don't do it. Wait at least overnight between everything. Always. The primer/paint need time to outgas before being covered, and you need time to relax, clear your head, check and correct any imperfections, and think about the next step. A good three step paint job should never take less than three days, at an absolute minimum.

Third, if you're clearcoating, why not leave it until after the decalling is done? They will look better and be protected. Just make sure that when you do that you apply the clearcoat in very light, slow mistcoats. Leave 1 to 2 hours in between mistcoats of clear to let the clearcoat outgas. If you don't, you're inviting the solvants to eat the paint and decals beneith them.

It cannot be done well fast. If you want it to come out, you're going to have to be willing to put some time into it....

For stripping, get yourself some 91 or 99%, and a coverable container to dunk the body in. It's a safer option than oven cleaner.

Quick tip on the hood pins.I always find that after painting they are usually lost under the paint layers.Drill a small hole at the location of the hood pins,remove them with a scalpel,sand the area smooth,paint as normal then once your body is finished replace the pins with either photo-etched or white metal versions.They are a lot less hassle in the long term,look miles better and if you get a decent sheet of them they will last ages.I always do the same thing with aeriel bases,washer jets etc.It makes the painting a lot easier.

Absolutely agree with MPWR - too much, too fast. How doest it go?... More haste, less speeed....

The only thing that I would add to what MPWR said is that, if you are goinfg to use spray cans instead of your airbrush, stand the can in a bowl of warm (NOT boiling) water before spraying . This will warm the paint and increase it's flowing properties.

Too thick, and waaaaay too fast. Relax man, it's not a race. There are no points for getting into the stripping tank first. :grinno:

First off, it looks like you're having trouble with 'wet' coats. Everyone has their own favorite methods, but I never apply a heavy wet coat. Everything I spray gets built up in light or medium mist coats. Wet coats may give you the instant satisfaction of having it come out shiney NOW, but if you fill in details you've ruined the paintjob. They can be extremely difficult to control, and really aren't necessary. Do it all in steady, even mists. And give it 30-60 minutes in between mist coats.
Every time I do mist coats, it seems to be a rough texture. It's not until the wet coat that I get a decent shine. Unfortunately, this is also about the time that panel lines get filled in as well as hood pins, door handles and the like. If you do all mist coats, how does it ever get a shine?

Can someone do a video from start to finish of how to paint and put it on youtube? I'll host a frickin' party if someone lives nearby and can demonstrate!:grinno:

Second, never apply primer, paint or clearcoat in the same day. Just don't do it. Wait at least overnight between everything. Always. The primer/paint need time to outgas before being covered, and you need time to relax, clear your head, check and correct any imperfections, and think about the next step. A good three step paint job should never take less than three days, at an absolute minimum.
According to the can, you should wait 10 minutes between coats and all coats (inlcuding clear) have to be applied within 1 hour. This is an acrylic enamel not an acrylic lacquer. I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just wondering why you do it this way when the manufacturer recommends a different way. Then again, I seem to be the one stripping bodies 3-4 times....

Third, if you're clearcoating, why not leave it until after the decalling is done? They will look better and be protected. Just make sure that when you do that you apply the clearcoat in very light, slow mistcoats. Leave 1 to 2 hours in between mistcoats of clear to let the clearcoat outgas. If you don't, you're inviting the solvants to eat the paint and decals beneith them.
I've done that in the past, but the consensus seems to be that it looks more realistic to apply decals over the clear. I'm also working on the 2000 D2 DTM car at the same time and would hate to screw those decals up. The Tamiya decals polish up nice. I'll try it this time as these decals are cheaply made.


For stripping, get yourself some 91 or 99%, and a coverable container to dunk the body in. It's a safer option than oven cleaner.
I'm an expert at stripping. Paint that is. It works great, except it won't take primer off.

Absolutely agree with MPWR - too much, too fast. How doest it go?... More haste, less speeed....

The only thing that I would add to what MPWR said is that, if you are goinfg to use spray cans instead of your airbrush, stand the can in a bowl of warm (NOT boiling) water before spraying . This will warm the paint and increase it's flowing properties.

I've used the warm can trick with great results. Absolutely helps with application.

I airbrush everything but the bodies. Works great. I tried decanting spray paint into the airbrush, but the texture came out like shit. I guess I have to thin it, but I didn't have thinner. At least with the acrylic, 91% alcohol works great. I may have to experiment more with decanting....

Have you ever seen the movie "Days of Thunder" with Tom Cruise? There's a great scene in there at the begining.

Robert Duvall is trying to coach Cruise about tire useage but Cruise is being obstinate. In the end they reach a deal - Cruise will do 15 laps his way, change tires and then do 15 laps following Duvall's advice.

When they compared results, it turned out that Duvall's way was actually faster around the lap and the tires were still good for another 100 laps.

You have already followed the advice on the spray can and you have seen what you get. Now try MPWRs way and see what you get. ;)

BTW mist/light coats DON'T shine. You put the shine on at the very end of the process.

During the paint application process, your primary objective is to gradually build up a sufficiently thick (and no more) smooth layer of paint that is free of grit, shit and orange peel. Painting i slike baking a cake - it's easy to add a tad more flour to the mix but if you put too much in, you cant take it out.

You can (should if necessary) wet sand away any imperfections after EVERY coat including mist coats if necessary.

It is virtually impossible to over thin paint. Better too thin than too thick. Thinner paint just means that you will have to apply more thin coats.

Honestly, your major problem seems to be haste and a heavy hand. If you search the forum you will find the same advice everywhere so there must be something to it ;)

Like I said, I'm open to new ideas. I'm so tired of the shitty results I've been getting. The body is in the 91% as we speak, and I'm going to try the way you guys have recommended.

I'll post the results when it's complete.

If you only knew how impatient I am...:disappoin

If you only knew how impatient I am...:disappoin
Actually, I had kinda noticed that already.... ;)

I wrote some techniques about painting airbrush in acrylics, it might help. I mentioned about the shooting distance, but you can use the same concept for the mixture and also air pressure:

http://www.cifesystem.com/paint-hint.html

I use acrylics as much as possible except the finishes on the wheels (Alclad) and maybe for the primer. I found that working with acrylics, you need some learning curve, but once you master it, it works very good and it can give you a good finish...

I used acrylics for the following models, I cleared with acrylics X-22. It does take 2~4 weeks to cure the paint completely. I do bake the models in the dish washer heating mode for several hours after the clear coat...

http://www.cifesystem.com/ford/mustang_final_5.jpg

http://www.cifesystem.com/993-porsche/menu5.jpg

Thanks for the site. I read it and will implement the info.

BTW, is that a stock revell '06 mustang or did you modify the fender flares and front facia? Looks great! And the Porsche too!!!

According to the can, you should wait 10 minutes between coats and all coats (inlcuding clear) have to be applied within 1 hour. This is an acrylic enamel not an acrylic lacquer. I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just wondering why you do it this way when the manufacturer recommends a different way. Then again, I seem to be the one stripping bodies 3-4 times....
I hear you about the can instructions. To be honest, enamel is not a medium I use. Apparently if too much time is allowed between coats, the coats dry seperately, not as one. But having to spray all at once is asking for trouble. If a flaw comes up, you're backed into a corner. I would strongly recommend switching to another paint- if you're going to use spray cans, Tamiya TS is too good a product not to use. The results, and the preservation of the remnants of your sanity, are worth it.


I've done that in the past, but the consensus seems to be that it looks more realistic to apply decals over the clear. I'm also working on the 2000 D2 DTM car at the same time and would hate to screw those decals up. The Tamiya decals polish up nice. I'll try it this time as these decals are cheaply made.

There seem to be alot of people who swear up and down that the correct way to do decals on motorsports cars is not to clearcoat them. Something about the graffics on many full size cars are themselves similar to decals, and the visible edges make them look more realistic, blah blah blah. (Is this the consensus you're speaking of?) Problem is, I've never seen a body done this way that actually looks good :disappoin. The printed carrier edges of decals always look to me like just what they are- printed edges of carrier film.

The more complicated a decal scheme is, the more inclined I am to protect them. I certainly never would polish directly on decals. Often the printed ink is covered by the thinnest layer of protector possible- rub that away and you attack the actual marking. Granted laquer clearcoats must be applied extremely carefully- but when done right, the results are more than worth it.

And if you just can't live without the transparent edge effect on your motorsports graffics, try putting them on after the clearcoating. Clear decal film is easily availible, in do-it-yourself decal sheets. Cut the shapes you need out of it, and apply them over the clearcoated decals. A well cut edge will look much better and more realistic than the printed edges on markings.

That is exactly what I was talking about regarding decals. I'm just terrified of f'ing them up with clear. The microsol seems to make them more resistant to the clear though. Will give it a shot.

Yeah, TS13 has a well deserved reputation of being a very 'hot' clearcoat- that is, containing strong solvants- but many laquer clearcoats share this trait. Applied fast and heavy, it certainly will eat decals or paint it's applied over. But applied correctly it isn't a problem. It must be sprayed on in slow, light coats, and leave plenty of outgassing time (1-2 hours) in between coats. The first few coats are especially critical- you must slowly build up a base barrier by lightly dust coating for the first three or four applications. Use the warm water trick to get the paint to flow extra smooth. When this base is applied, you can move up to medium mistcoats. Slowly build it up deep enough to polish. If it goes on well, you should be able to take care of any leftover texture by polishing with Tamiya course compound. But skip the wetcoats, especially over decals- it's asking for trouble.