Difference between turbos

ok, so i've decided to give up on the FP green for finance reasons, also because i'm REALLY tired of the T-2small.i'm still looking for upwords of 350whp, perferably about 360-380whp. So i'm trying to figure out what the difference between the MHI big 16g (b16g), and the MHI EvoIII 16g (Evo3). :screwy: i understand the b16g flows 45 more cfm then a standard (small) 16g and it, the b16g, is capable of 350WHP on a good tune. but SBR is rating the Evo3 at 380whp on the street, and over 400whp possible with a race-built 4g63, yet its the same compressor, same hot side, and the same housing... so my questions are:
~Does the Evo3 and the b16g flow the same cfm of air?

~How does the Evo3 make more power then the b16g?

~Is the Evo3 worth $100 more then the b16g?

~why or why not?

Thanks guys

The EVO 3 does flow quite a bit more air...Road Race has it right here

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclturbos.htm

The EVO 3 does flow quite a bit more air...Road Race has it right here

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclturbos.htm
RRE talks about the differences between the 16g and the big 16g, to my understanding, the EVO3 is different then the big 16g.
direct quote from RRE:
MHI EVO III 16G Turbo

"This is the stock turbo from the Lancer EVO III. Outwardly they look like any other 16G. They use the same compressor housing, TDO-5 exhaust wheel, and the same 7cm volume exhaust housing. Until you pop off the compressor housing... HELLO! Big Wheel. Flows 550 cfm vs. 505 cfm for the regular 16G.

The normal 16-G compressor wheel is 1.83" at the inducer and 2.36" at the exducer. The Big 16-G is 1.89" at the inducer and 2.68" at the exducer. That is just over 5/16" (8mm) larger than the normal 16-G exducer and the same size as the GReddy 18-G (inducer diameter is only .10" smaller than a 18-G)."

what they are explaning seems the be to difference between the standered 16g (small 16g) and the big 16g... and has nothing to do with the EvoIII 16g. :screwy:

in my opinion, i would buy the evo III, 1. because you get what you pay for..

2. the evo III flows heavier than the big 16G turbo, and for only 100 dollars more, you cant lose!!

the evo III flows heavier than the big 16G turbo, and for only 100 dollars more, you cant lose!!
how do you know? the b16g flows 550cfm according to SBR, and RRE states that the Evo3 flows 50cfm more then the standered 16g, which is equal to 550cfm... so they are the same? why spend $100 more on something that is EXACTLY the same? unless i'm missing something?:banghead:

SBR clames to have made over 400WHP (AWD) on a EvoIII w/o nawwz which is about where i want my car to MAX out at, just over 400whp. however, they state that the b16g is good for up to 350whp (AWD) yet they flow exactly the same CFM? i just want to know HOW and WHY they are different! :dunno:

once again as nofx stated, roadraceengineering has it right there, i may be mistaken but i doubt it



im not trying to be a smartass or anything but if your going to ask what you should get and then secound guess the people trying to help you then you should do what ever you want..... not trying to be disrespectful lol

once again as nofx stated, roadraceengineering has it right there, i may be mistaken but i doubt it



im not trying to be a smartass or anything but if your going to ask what you should get and then secound guess the people trying to help you then you should do what ever you want..... not trying to be disrespectful lol

I replied to nofx's post... maybe you should read it? I’m not second guessing ANYONE! i just want to know why! i want to see some #'s! i see it like this, I could SAVE $100 if the turbos are EXACTLY the same or have minimal differences... its like the EBay intake pipe rather then an name brand one, they would the same, just $100 different in price! Why waste the money on something that could be obtained for cheaper? Both turbos are MHI, so your comment on getting what you pay for is irrelevant in this sense. I’m not trying to start a fight or piss anyone off, but you’re just telling me EXACTLY the same thing, I didn’t ask if one was better or which one I should get! I asked what the difference is! If you don’t know that’s fine, because neither do I! Maybe we can both learn something about the EvoIII turbo… :2cents:

The Evo turbo will (or should) outflow the big16g, whether the difference of 50cfm is absolutley correct or not, I do not know, but it should be around that range. SBR may have put down 400whp on the e316g, but I'm willing to bet that's after MANY MANY tunes and lots of other modifications, they are cranking the shit out of that turbo and pushing it to the very max, on a street setup you'd probably see between 370-385 on a good tune with the evo, and probably around 350 on a regular 16g.

As to why it flows more, I don't know exactly, but I think it has something to do with the wheels on the inside, because they have the exact same housings. Hope that helps clear up some questions.

Hope that helps clear up some questions.
thanks alot, it really does! does anyone know or can find what EXACTLy the differences are? how much you think i could get out of the b16g? right about 350whp? if thats the case, i think i'll go with the Evo3. although i have read that the B16g compressor housing is thicker metal and can be ported out to fit 20g blades in it. is this true? if so it is a plus for the b16g. also the b16g is much easier to find used in good shape (Thor has one i've been talking to him about) which is another GREAT +... i just need some more info on anything and everything about both the b16g and the Evo3 before i'm ready to make my decision. if anyone has any unspoken info, no matter how little it is, please post it.

Port the stocker. You won't need anything more than a stock until upwards of 500+, and even then you could still use it if you *had* to.

Upon furthur research I found out that the EvoIII has a smaller shank than the Big16g, and the compressor blades are thinner, which adds up to more compressor inlet area, and leads to why it puts out more power.

Upon furthur research I found out that the EvoIII has a smaller shank than the Big16g, and the compressor blades are thinner, which adds up to more compressor inlet area, and leads to why it puts out more power.
that also would decrease rotating mass, aswell as overall weight reducing lag correct? :cwm27:

+ for Evo3...

Correct. Probably not anything noticeable in the car, but technically yes.

so that little difference in the shank and compressor blades makes up for 50+ whp??? does anyone know any other info on either turbo? (b16g or EvoIII 16g)

Whoa! I didn't see your edit until just now. The B16, EvoIII, and 20g all use the same compressor housings (TDO5H), so I don't see how porting one or the other would help at all. If you wanted to put the 20g wheel in a different housing, you might as well just buy the 20g, it would be alot easier. Same thing goes with the B16 and EvoIII, same compressor housings, but the compressor wheels themselves are different. You "could" take the Evo wheel and put it in the B16 housing and have a "hybrid" Evo, but then again, it'd just be easier to buy a turbo that you KNOW will work for sure. :2cents:

so that little difference in the shank and compressor blades makes up for 50+ whp??? does anyone know any other info on either turbo? (b16g or EvoIII 16g)

You're mixing up HP and CFM here. It's roughly a difference of about 50CFM, which will net you probably 25-30hp. But all of this also depends on your setup and how far you're willing to push everything. You could probably squeeze 400hp out of the EvoIII, but like I said, that's going to have to be a very, very good tune.

When I bought my Evo 3 it was 40 dollars cheaper then it is now from extremepsi (one reason I went with it) and this was what i understood the difference between the two to be "The EVO3 Big 16G features a slightly larger compressor wheel than the previous Big 16G. It also uses an improved turbine housing design, which offers better boost control, direct fitment with the EVO3 O2 housing, and weighs in 2.75 lbs lighter than the old style 7cm housings. "

"The EVO3 Big 16G features a slightly larger compressor wheel than the previous Big 16G.

I know for a fact that the "small" 16g has a smaller compressor wheel than the "big" 16g, but I was under the impression that the big and evo3 used the same sized compressor wheel, the evo3's was just modified a little bit. But you may be correct also.

You're mixing up HP and CFM here. It's roughly a difference of about 50CFM, which will net you probably 25-30hp. But all of this also depends on your setup and how far you're willing to push everything. You could probably squeeze 400hp out of the EvoIII, but like I said, that's going to have to be a very, very good tune.
yeah, i understand that, it just seems ironic to me that a shorter shank and a smaller/lighter compressor wheel is capible for so much more overall power capabilities. i understand that i cant run 400WHP on an Evo3 everyday, 400whp is my MAX goal, so i can run that say while at the track, or every so often. i'm looking for around 360-380 for every day ( i only drive the car every so often) because its in my gurage (about an hour and 45 min drive from where i live... so i'm leaning twords the EvoIII turbo as i type this, but my opinion is constantly swaying back and forth. i just want to make sure i dont waste money on a turbo that i dont want.

*any info on the 20g blades in a B16g turbo?*
**or anymore info at all for that matter :uhoh: **

When I bought my Evo 3 it was 40 dollars cheaper then it is now from extremepsi (one reason I went with it) and this was what i understood the difference between the two to be "The EVO3 Big 16G features a slightly larger compressor wheel than the previous Big 16G. It also uses an improved turbine housing design, which offers better boost control, direct fitment with the EVO3 O2 housing, and weighs in 2.75 lbs lighter than the old style 7cm housings. "
does the EVOIII have any of the boost creap issues found with the b16g+s16g's? or is that what the new turbine housing was designed to illiminate?
*learning so much*:popcorn:

does the EVOIII have any of the boost creap issues found with the b16g+s16g's? or is that what the new turbine housing was designed to illiminate?
*learning so much*:popcorn:

Yea I have been struggling with boost creep. :(
I think it might be my 02 housing http://posracing.net/BoostCreep.html
either that or where I have tapped my boost gauge

Steve, have you ported the o2 housing yet? That usually cures 99% of boost creep problems.

No man I was about to buy a ported one from ebay but then I got outbid. Now Im considering just buying a new evo 3 o2 housing from mitsubishi i know a guy in parts who can get them for me pretty fairly priced.

Just port the stocker, much cheaper.

Yea I have been struggling with boost creep. :(
I think it might be my 02 housing http://posracing.net/BoostCreep.html
either that or where I have tapped my boost gauge
keven said the o2 housing had little to no effect. (unless i read that wrong??)
*quote from keven*
"Which brings me back to my original theory. If you are using stock
sized flapper, O2 housing is the least of your wastegate
restrictions, especially on 1g housing. I think due to the fact that
the sensor is right in front of the divider, the 2g housing is worse
despite the appearance of a larger runner. I think the Mitsu
engineers said "Lets make the runner 15% bigger, and then block 70%
of the opening with an O2 sensor""

he solved the problem here. porting the turbine housing, flapper hole, AND the new o2 housing...
"With a 2.5 inch Busher turbo back I got creep. Both with the cat and especially without it. 18-19 psi on the cat, 22 psi on the test pipe. 3" exhaust would have been worse. 22 psi on my little 14b on pump gas? Not cool ;o) I tried everything from external dumps to different turbine housings (my flapper arm was bunk) to no avail. I finally broke down and ported the turbine housing, flapper hole, and O2 housing. No more creep. I have set it as low as 15 with no problems."

now grated that was a 14b turbo, not a 16g, so would the upgraded 34mm wastegate mod on the EvoIII 16g be worth another $60 ($160 more then the B16g turbo) if the flapper size is the same i could do the port work myself. does anyone know if the flapper size is the same on the EvoIII 16g between the 31mm wastegate std. and the 34mm wastegate mod?

my cure for boost creep = run higher boost

keven said the o2 housing had little to no effect. (unless i read that wrong??)
*quote from keven*
"Which brings me back to my original theory. If you are using stock
sized flapper, O2 housing is the least of your wastegate
restrictions, especially on 1g housing. I think due to the fact that
the sensor is right in front of the divider, the 2g housing is worse
despite the appearance of a larger runner. I think the Mitsu
engineers said "Lets make the runner 15% bigger, and then block 70%
of the opening with an O2 sensor""

he solved the problem here. porting the turbine housing, flapper hole, AND the new o2 housing...
"With a 2.5 inch Busher turbo back I got creep. Both with the cat and especially without it. 18-19 psi on the cat, 22 psi on the test pipe. 3" exhaust would have been worse. 22 psi on my little 14b on pump gas? Not cool ;o) I tried everything from external dumps to different turbine housings (my flapper arm was bunk) to no avail. I finally broke down and ported the turbine housing, flapper hole, and O2 housing. No more creep. I have set it as low as 15 with no problems."

now grated that was a 14b turbo, not a 16g, so would the upgraded 34mm wastegate mod on the EvoIII 16g be worth another $60 ($160 more then the B16g turbo) if the flapper size is the same i could do the port work myself. does anyone know if the flapper size is the same on the EvoIII 16g between the 31mm wastegate std. and the 34mm wastegate mod?

my turbo is already ported and clipped so I'm back to porting the o2....

my turbo is already ported and clipped so I'm back to porting the o2....
did you do the port yourself or buy it ported and clipped? any info on the Wastegate flapper between the 31mm std, and the 34mm mod?

I bought it ported and clipped at the time I didn't have an air compressor and theres no way i could do it with a dremmel. I have the upgraded 34mm flapper but I have no basis of comparison to give you any info on it sorry.

I bought it ported and clipped at the time I didn't have an air compressor and theres no way i could do it with a dremmel. I have the upgraded 34mm flapper but I have no basis of comparison to give you any info on it sorry.
I drove only 1 car with an EvoIII 16g and i didnt even really count... i pulled john's (crunchymilk) car out of the shop when he droped it off to have his issue checked out (he thought it had crankwalk) needless to say, i didnt boost in it or anything. how do you like your Evo3 turbo? besides boost creap, is it a good ride? i need something that brings on power a little slow, but still strong (FWD) i'm worried that the turbo will spool to fast and i'm going to have traction issues. any input on that from anyone with an Evo3 16g pushing upwords of 350whp on a FWD DSM?

Well I have noticed that the evo 3 makes full boost extremely quickly it seems to me like its either full on or full off. If I try to keep low by peddling the throttle it just fluctuates up and down tremendously depending on whether I am laying off or putting down on the pedal. I wouldn't be too worried about breaking traction up in the higher gears with it but first and second may be a problem the spool up time on my car with a 3' turboback and the rest of my mods is like nothing It is almost identicle to the t-25 just way more top end power... On the other hand I'm pretty sure the big 16g will act quite similarly but I have no experience with it.

Well I have noticed that the evo 3 makes full boost extremely quickly it seems to me like its either full on or full off. If I try to keep low by peddling the throttle it just fluctuates up and down tremendously depending on whether I am laying off or putting down on the pedal. I wouldn't be too worried about breaking traction up in the higher gears with it but first and second may be a problem the spool up time on my car with a 3' turboback and the rest of my mods is like nothing It is almost identicle to the t-25 just way more top end power... On the other hand I'm pretty sure the big 16g will act quite similarly but I have no experience with it.
i can already break lose in 2nd gear with my t-2small (not just cherp, full burnout) at only 15psi and stock injectors... :banghead: maybe i should stick to the fp green then? i just cant stand the high end (or lack their of :shakehead: ) with the t-25... and dont have the money for the green, not to mention, its WAY overkill...

is their a way to tell the difference between the Evo3 16g and Big 16g visually without pulling the compressor housing off? i'm shopping around right now and see TONS of EVOIII Big 16g's but their is no such turbo, its eaither a Big 16g, or an EVOIII 16g, so is their something visually different?

i can already break lose in 2nd gear with my t-2small (not just cherp, full burnout) at only 15psi and stock injectors... :banghead: maybe i should stick to the fp green then? i just cant stand the high end (or lack their of :shakehead: ) with the t-25... and dont have the money for the green, not to mention, its WAY overkill...

is their a way to tell the difference between the Evo3 16g and Big 16g visually without pulling the compressor housing off? i'm shopping around right now and see TONS of EVOIII Big 16g's but their is no such turbo, its eaither a Big 16g, or an EVOIII 16g, so is their something visually different?

yes the big 16g uses a dark material on the outlet side while the evo3 uses a lighter colour ... look
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16295&cat=426&page=1
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16296&cat=426&page=1


edit
how will going with a fp green which delivers more power save you from burning out because you may not loose traction right away when it starts to spool but you will sure as hell lose it when it hits full boost I guess I'm just saying its a matter of time...

also people probably just say "big" in the title so it gets more hits or something, its redundant I know but it means nothing it will be just the regular evo3.

yes the big 16g uses a dark material on the outlet side while the evo3 uses a lighter colour ... look
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16295&cat=426&page=1
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16296&cat=426&page=1
i think the picture of the EVO3 was taken with a flash, and the one of the B16g wasnt... they look the same to me (I COULD VERY WELL BE WRONG)

Edit: how will going with a fp green which delivers more power save you from burning out because you may not loose traction right away when it starts to spool but you will sure as hell lose it when it hits full boost I guess I'm just saying its a matter of time...
I would only run enough boost to make about 380whp, and since lagg time is longer, i would be able to hold more traction... i think? (i'm probably to ONLY person in the world worried that my turbo will spool to FAST :screwy: )

Edit:
I would only run enough boost to make about 380whp, and since lagg time is longer, i would be able to hold more traction... i think? (i'm probably to ONLY person in the world worried that my turbo will spool to FAST :screwy: )

actually that makes sense to me but it is a very expensive turbo and setup to only make as much horsepower as something much cheaper.

and no man they really are different colours im 98% sure I think the material change is one of the reasons the evo3 is lighter.

actually that makes sense to me but it is a very expensive turbo and setup to only make as much horsepower as something much cheaper.

and no man they really are different colours im 98% sure I think the material change is one of the reasons the evo3 is lighter.
well, i was going for that turbo because i was on the high way to an AWD conversion and a stroker, but then i had to quit my job (damn school!) and dont make NEAR the money i used to, so that project was shot, then i was just accustomed to it, and hopefully my car will one day see a stoker motor, and a green turbo, but not anytime soon, and i've decided to go with one of the 16g's.

and awesome, so the evo3 has a lighter color compressor (cold side) housing then the B16g? correct? thats GREAT news!

Have you done any traction mods to help with the burning out? Going with the FP Green will only make matters worse once full boost hits, you'll be burning them all the way through 3rd and into 4th instead of 1st and 2nd, plus only using half of the turbo? That's a complete waste of money IMHO.

Get the EvoIII, then some traction upgrades, and THEN see where you're sitting as to where you should go next.

Get the EvoIII, then some traction upgrades, and THEN see where you're sitting as to where you should go next.
i realize that the FP green would be EXPENSIVE, but i wouldnt be wasting my money on account of future (far, but still their) mods, as of this point in time, i do not have the money to purchase the FP green, and cant stand the t-25 anymore. so this is how the whole debate got started. lol but you guys have really helped out ALOT! and i have decided to go with the EvoIII 16g with the 34mm wastegate mod, unless someone knows if the flapper is the same size as the 31mm std wastegate, so i can save the $60 and port it myself.

Man I missed a lot here...but I remember talking to a guy on the phone at RRE and he said the differance between the Big 16G and the EVO 3 was mainly in the hot side...it is a little bigger I think he said and it is made of a slightly differant metal and is lighter than the regular 16G

Man I missed a lot here...but I remember talking to a guy on the phone at RRE and he said the differance between the Big 16G and the EVO 3 was mainly in the hot side...it is a little bigger I think he said and it is made of a slightly differant metal and is lighter than the regular 16G
if they are truely made of a different metal, then it is true that the Evo3 is a lighter color then the b16g! :1: for more info!

20g it up! Screw messing with all that 16g crap. You can make 400 ponies on the 20g and have a little room for some more at a later time. :)

well i was thinking about getting the 16g, then making my own "bastered 20g" that slowboyracing makes. but i need to know what core they use. also, the compressor cover on the Evo3 is thinner/lighter then the b16g, and i dont know of the 20g blades will fit into the evo3 housing as opposed to the b16g... anyone?

I think you're gonna get in over your head with tearing down these turbos. Just buy the one you want, instead of throwing a bunch of different parts together, because the chances of it working correctly for a long time are slim-to-none. First time turbo rebuilders always tend to screw something up. :2cents:

I agree with gthompson97.

But I think you should look at it from a more realistic stand point. Not saying that the 16g doesn't make good power. For what your power goals seem to be, I think the 20g would be more a proper fit. The 20g can make about 380-400 easy with proper mods and a good tune.

To do that with a 16g evo 3 or not is gonna require a significant amount of tuning and tweaking your setup as was said above.

If you really have your heart set on the big 16g than go for it, just know that anything over 350 is really not very realistic for the turbo. Crap 350 is pretty good for that turbo.

I just looked at tuners and I see only two or three cars on there with a 16g making 350, most are making less on a 16g.

Well about losing traction my evo3 hits like a mack truck and im only running 15psi. I couldnt imagine having fwd thats why i got the GSX

I agree with gthompson97.

But I think you should look at it from a more realistic stand point. Not saying that the 16g doesn't make good power. For what your power goals seem to be, I think the 20g would be more a proper fit. The 20g can make about 380-400 easy with proper mods and a good tune.

To do that with a 16g evo 3 or not is gonna require a significant amount of tuning and tweaking your setup as was said above.

If you really have your heart set on the big 16g than go for it, just know that anything over 350 is really not very realistic for the turbo. Crap 350 is pretty good for that turbo.

I just looked at tuners and I see only two or three cars on there with a 16g making 350, most are making less on a 16g.
i think i'm going to go with the Evo3 now, and if i cant pull enough power out of it to be a happy guy, then i'll just sell it for the bastered 20g... :evillol: