Adding Horses to my SE

So, I plan on making my SE ballsy enough to pull up to a red light and challenge the guy next to me with a bit more confidence then I have now.
I don't know that much about adding horses to my car as it is, if there's an exsisting thread, point me that way, I just wanna get my car beastly.

How much can I get from my car? like, max HP?

(2000 4 dr SE 2.4 twin cam)

Here's a list of things you can do:

1) Cold Air Intake
2) Catback Exhaust (hi-flo cat preferred)
3) Headers
4) DHP PCM
5) 62 or 65mm TB
6) Underdrive Pulley (if you can live without as much power to your A/C and music and everything else!)
7) Then you can go crazy and get P&P U/LIM's, heads, a new cam, pushrods, etc.

Or you can just buy a nitrous kit and call it a day :p OR add that on top of these things. OR buy a turbo :p

Oh... and there's someone running a car like yours at about 425ish hp... probably one of the fastest 4-banger grand ams in the country, if not the world. I'm just waiting for someone to go all-out on the V6 version and break into the 11's :p

So far nobody has gotten to the 11's, but the 12's are possible. It's not to say the 11's can't be reached, it's just a long, expensive road. You'd be better off buying a better car like a trans am :p

Not to be a pain in the ass; but could you by anyway explain what all of those will do, how much I could gain, what brands/type/model I should look for?
Also, I don't know anything about cars, so the whole abreviation/acronyms are a different language.

So, I plan on making my SE ballsy enough to pull up to a red light and challenge the guy next to me with a bit more confidence then I have now.
I don't know that much about adding horses to my car as it is, if there's an exsisting thread, point me that way, I just wanna get my car beastly.

How much can I get from my car? like, max HP?

(2000 4 dr SE 2.4 twin cam)


If you don't want to completely take apart your motor. You can always do some basic modifications.

Pacesetter makes a header, you have to go to an exhaust shop to have them weld the downpipe. When at the exhaust shop have them do a high flowing catalytic convertor with a 2.5inch inlet/2.5inch outlet, and then do 2.5inch exhaust the rest of the way back into a nice straight through muffler of your choice. People tend to like borla mufflers or magnaflow.

AEM makes a nice intake for the 2.4L motor you just have to search 2000 Chevy Cavalier, it fits exactly the same on the grand am. OR you can go to www.induction-dynamics.com and get their cold air intake system. Basically they get the air from the fender instead of under the hood for a cooler intake charge.

the intake manifold from a 2.3L quad 4 High Output motor with some modification will work on your car along with the 56mm throttle body that is attached to it. You'll have to modify the AEM or Induction Dynamics intakes but all you're doing is cutting down the intake a lil bit. Easy with a saw.

Also if you want some decent cams to wake up the motor a little more, find a 1995 2.3L quad 4 intake cam, and a 1992-1994 2.3L quad 4 exhaust cam and have a decent shop you're friendly with install them for you. You'll gain some nice pep out of them. If the shop is good with performance work, have them port and polish your head and install 1mm larger valves, you can get these at www.carcustoms.net to improve the heads flow and to take advantage of the 2.3L quad 4 High Output intake manifold.

Now if all of that isn't enough or you can't do some of that. Try a 75shot of nitrous. There's quite a few universal kits out there and any reputable performance shop can install one quite easily for you. All you really need is an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and spark plugs that are one heat range colder than stock, and with no platinum coating.

if you want to spend BIG money you can always come back and talk to me. My 2.4L is making 432hp with a turbo and some engine work.

Oh... and there's someone running a car like yours at about 425ish hp... probably one of the fastest 4-banger grand ams in the country, if not the world. I'm just waiting for someone to go all-out on the V6 version and break into the 11's :p

So far nobody has gotten to the 11's, but the 12's are possible. It's not to say the 11's can't be reached, it's just a long, expensive road. You'd be better off buying a better car like a trans am :p

once I get the clutch I'll be in the 11's.

Yeah but you've probably spent a fortune. You can buy a basic 5.0 mustang and for a small amount of $$$ have it in the 11's for wayyyy cheaper than a 4 banger grand am :)

Or an AWD talon tsi/laser rs/eclipse gsx running 28psi or so. Wayyyy cheaper and wayyyy more drivable in the winter :)

Not discrediting the work you've done by any means... but not everyone has a bazillion dollars or the hookups or the mechanical ability/knowhow/tools to do what you've done. Nor are the parts easily available for the GA and most things have to be custom done (like what you've had done). It's just totally not worth it if your goal is speed. If your goal is originality, then yeah you've topped the cake! But he was looking for speed, so I was givin him suggestions :p

Yeah but you've probably spent a fortune. You can buy a basic 5.0 mustang and for a small amount of $$$ have it in the 11's for wayyyy cheaper than a 4 banger grand am :)

Or an AWD talon tsi/laser rs/eclipse gsx running 28psi or so. Wayyyy cheaper and wayyyy more drivable in the winter :)

Not discrediting the work you've done by any means... but not everyone has a bazillion dollars or the hookups or the mechanical ability/knowhow/tools to do what you've done. Nor are the parts easily available for the GA and most things have to be custom done (like what you've had done). It's just totally not worth it if your goal is speed. If your goal is originality, then yeah you've topped the cake! But he was looking for speed, so I was givin him suggestions :p

I gave suggestions too. My motor doesn't have a gazillion dollars in it.
Pretty much everything on my motor can be bought in two places.. carcustoms.net hptuners.com cheapturbo.com

You can replicate my build for between $5500-8500, built motor and all, just depending on where you go for parts and what kind of deals you can find. That's not a bazillion dollars. The most custom pieces that had to be fabricated were the intercooler pipes, mounting the intercooler, redrilling some bolt holes for fitment of a 2.3L intake manifold, and having a welding shop weld on a flange for an LS1 throttle body, oh yeah and the hard part of having an exhaust shop fabricate a downpipe and exhaust. You're making my build sound very unobtainable. Most of my motor is far from custom, or exotic.

You also don't realize I live on the west coast. We don't have "winters" they're more or less a cold spell for a day or two. People here can drive on summer tires year round. So winter driveability isn't an issue. Even so why would I drive my project car in salty/sandy roads anyway? REDICULOUS!

My goal was speed, in an N-body. Originality, I wish, people have built many a quad4/twincam boosted, I just so happen to have done it smarter. Blah blah blah.

I could probably go 11's in a civic hatch cheaper than this car, shit I could've gone 11's in this car cheaper. I didn't, I learned and enjoyed the trip, and I'm going for more.

You have a grand am too, don't hate, appreciate.

:2cents:

Pretty much everything on my motor can be bought in two places.. carcustoms.net hptuners.com cheapturbo.com



:rofl:

:rofl:

i stand corrected 3.

:) hehe

For the cold air intake from INDUCTION DYNAMICS, this is what I should get?
http://www.induction-dynamics.com/sunfirecavaliergrandamalero24l.html

Yes IanPete thats a nice CAI.
Probley expensive though.

Yes IanPete thats a nice CAI.
Probley expensive though.

That's basically the best one on the market for the 2.4L motors. It's also the only one that is a true cold air.

$365 I know that's a lot, but for a CAI is it a lot?

$365 I know that's a lot, but for a CAI is it a lot?

I got mine for like $100. It goes into my wheel well and does awesome things... but then again I have the 3.4L V6.

it's closer to $300 American... Everybody that I have heard that has it, really liked it and how it performed.

So, we're talking about 300 for the actual CAI, and then when I have it, I'll need to take it to a shop to have it welded, which will obviously cost more, plus labor?, or is there anyway I could put it on my self.

:[

That's basically the best one on the market for the 2.4L motors. It's also the only one that is a true cold air.


That would be your opinoin, thier are other ones on the market and probly way cheaper.
A CAI is a CAI not alot of differences between them all.

And Ian if it needs welded look for something else!!
Try Ebay they have all types and halff the cost.

Good Hunting!

Well like I said before, I wanna give my car some balls, you know? Make her smoke just about anything I pull up next to. If its going to cost more, then so be it.. I'm just like, meh well.

I'm 16. Unemployed and currently know nothing about cars. I'm trying things by myself, such as the interior painting, and thats going all to hell. I taped stuff wrong I guess and cant get it off so it looks all crappy. I feel like im ruining my car almost. But I beleive if I take my time on stuff I can do it myself, also, when I DO do it myself, there's no one else to blame, and it's cheaper.

You can giv it balls without pay $300 for a CAI.

My first one cost $350 for a 99 V6, I got reamed!!!
I just bought another one from chromeintakes($80) and it is exactly the same thing except for the color of the silicone cuplers.

First this is going to require much $$$$,
so you might get your self a j.o.b., just a suggestion .

You have much to learn grass-hopper :grinyes:
But you are at the right place :D

btw PM me or post your concerns about the interior stuff :thumbsup:

Can I get a link to that intake, or something like it?

Remember, mine's a 2.4L TwinCam.

That would be your opinoin, thier are other ones on the market and probly way cheaper.
A CAI is a CAI not alot of differences between them all.

And Ian if it needs welded look for something else!!
Try Ebay they have all types and halff the cost.

Good Hunting!

It is the only true CAI for the 2.4L, it also has been shown to make the most power out of everything else out there.. Everything else sits under the hood. My opinion is a bit better informed than you realize.

It is the only true CAI for the 2.4L, it also has been shown to make the most power out of everything else out there.. Everything else sits under the hood. My opinion is a bit better informed than you realize.

The problem comes in to where you decide whether or not you want to spend an extra $200 for an extra 1 or 2 hp... which for most people you would not.

The problem comes in to where you decide whether or not you want to spend an extra $200 for an extra 1 or 2 hp... which for most people you would not.

Then most people shouldn't be modifying their cars now, should they? On the 2.4L the gains will be small until you start doing headwork and cams and tuning which are the real modifications to wake up the motor.

It is the only true CAI for the 2.4L, it also has been shown to make the most power out of everything else out there.. Everything else sits under the hood. My opinion is a bit better informed than you realize.


I truly doubt that !! :rolleyes:

I truly doubt that !! :rolleyes:

absolutely right, i have no knowledge of the 2.4L motor whatsoever, as well as whats on the market. Everybody should be buying ripoff versions of all aftermarket products because they're "affordable", and listen to your blanket upgrade advice.

absolutely right, i have no knowledge of the 2.4L motor whatsoever, as well as whats on the market. Everybody should be buying ripoff versions of all aftermarket products because they're "affordable", and listen to your blanket upgrade advice.

Yipe thats about all you know! :lol:

Edit...

Sorry if you dont like my opinions.

When IanPete is asking(you appearently) for a link to this wonderfull CAI, So where is that?

Why dont you tell him what cams he can use to upgrade his HP?
Links are nice :D

absolutely right, i have no knowledge of the 2.4L motor whatsoever, as well as whats on the market. Everybody should be buying ripoff versions of all aftermarket products because they're "affordable", and listen to your blanket upgrade advice.

Apparently not the CAI's, at least... I fail to understand how having my CAI with a K&N cone filter in my wheel well will be a "ripoff." Maybe because the metal isn't thick enough? Just so you know, the specific heat capacity of metal is pretty damn low (steel being lower than other metals like aluminum), so even if you double the thickness, heat will propagate through the metal at a very high speed anyway, unless you treat it with some sort of heat-blocking crap that you find on headers and stuff. I REALLY don't want to have to re-derive and go through the heat propagation equation (I hate differential equations), so I'll spare everyone the math... look it up if you care and understand it.

Regardless, this $300 CAI may or may not be the "best," but you absolutely can NOT call the one I have a ripoff, because it resides in a location which is far from the engine (namely, a place I can touch with my bare hands without losing them).

Furthermore, the specific heat capacity of air is even higher than metal, and at the velocity air travels through the CAI, it really does not warm up fast compared to the air immediately surrounding the engine.

My question to you is this: WHAT is the CAI that you're advertising made of? Is this CAI made of some sort of silicate material, or is it just your average blob of metal like mine is?

I'd like to know what it is made of and exactly what the claims are for its performance before you make the claim that spending $300+ for a CAI is worth it.

Apparently not the CAI's, at least... I fail to understand how having my CAI with a K&N cone filter in my wheel well will be a "ripoff." Maybe because the metal isn't thick enough? Just so you know, the specific heat capacity of metal is pretty damn low (steel being lower than other metals like aluminum), so even if you double the thickness, heat will propagate through the metal at a very high speed anyway, unless you treat it with some sort of heat-blocking crap that you find on headers and stuff. I REALLY don't want to have to re-derive and go through the heat propagation equation (I hate differential equations), so I'll spare everyone the math... look it up if you care and understand it.

Regardless, this $300 CAI may or may not be the "best," but you absolutely can NOT call the one I have a ripoff, because it resides in a location which is far from the engine (namely, a place I can touch with my bare hands without losing them).

Furthermore, the specific heat capacity of air is even higher than metal, and at the velocity air travels through the CAI, it really does not warm up fast compared to the air immediately surrounding the engine.

My question to you is this: WHAT is the CAI that you're advertising made of? Is this CAI made of some sort of silicate material, or is it just your average blob of metal like mine is?

I'd like to know what it is made of and exactly what the claims are for its performance before you make the claim that spending $300+ for a CAI is worth it.


all the underhood intakes are a ripoff of either the AEM/RKSport design, RSM/Zspec design, or Injen design... hence me saying RIPOFF, forgery, impersonation with just enough changes to force companies that make reputable products just not give a shit about this lil corner of the aftermarket.

The length of the CAI I'm in support of people love, have zero complaints of. Someone was asking about a CAI, I mentioned the only real one on the market for the 2.4L.

pretty simple right?

all the underhood intakes are a ripoff of either the AEM/RKSport design, RSM/Zspec design, or Injen design... hence me saying RIPOFF, forgery, impersonation with just enough changes to force companies that make reputable products just not give a shit about this lil corner of the aftermarket.

The length of the CAI I'm in support of people love, have zero complaints of. Someone was asking about a CAI, I mentioned the only real one on the market for the 2.4L.

pretty simple right?

You phrased it badly then. I'm sure he probably would not care if one was a replica of another company's for less of a price. Hell, they make Walmart brand cereal and people buy that. If it's the same thing, why spend the $365 of a cold air intake if you could spend $85 on one that does the exact same thing?

That's my only real point. I don't care about brand name if it does the exact same thing. Most people wont either ;)

Other than that, I understand your point, but once again it comes to a money issue. I can't really see how anyone COULD complain about a cheaper CAI that does the same thing that is made of the same material for less money... but that's okay.

all the underhood intakes are a ripoff of either the AEM/RKSport design, RSM/Zspec design, or Injen design... hence me saying RIPOFF, forgery, impersonation with just enough changes to force companies that make reputable products just not give a shit about this lil corner of the aftermarket.

The length of the CAI I'm in support of people love, have zero complaints of. Someone was asking about a CAI, I mentioned the only real one on the market for the 2.4L.

pretty simple right?

So why do you accuse them of being "ripoffs" ?
DO you know for a fact some joker copied them spec to spec ?

Any Cavi 2.4L CAI will work!
Thier are not many, if any gains from one model to the next without using some thermoTec wrap which would look like poo.

All I said was its not worth $300-400 for a CAI when you get such small HP gains. Summet has one (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D17800764&N=700+4294908153+4294839780+4294819504+4294925239+ 4294813803+115&autoview=sku)that over $400 I bet it works kickass too :rolleyes:
How about this WEAPON R DRAGON INTAKE (http://www.autopartsperformance.com/performance/basket.php?makeid=22&modelid=244&year=2000&partid=217&brandid=3873&skipped_brand=true)??

Honestly the 2.4L is one of the hardest to find CAI's.
So why do you think no one makes them ...... ??

Here are 10 cheaper (http://motors.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=unknown&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=cavalier+2.4+Cold+air+intake&sacat=6000%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1)models.

http://picture.funnyjunk.com/pics/kitty_surprise.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/ArtWorK/bong.gif

That weapon dragon intake looks cool, and if does the same thing, it's going to be what I get.

This topic got a little out of hand because of opinions.. I'm not being rude, but I wasn't asking for opinions, I was asking FOR THE MONEY, WHAT SHOULD I GET. Thats capitalized for emphasis, not to show that I'm mad.

Honestly reading the opinions have made me know much more about CAI's already.


OK SO: Am I right for choosing the Weapon Dragon for a mere $140 rather than Air Induction Dynamics for $365?

That weapon dragon intake looks cool, and if does the same thing, it's going to be what I get.

This topic got a little out of hand because of opinions.. I'm not being rude, but I wasn't asking for opinions, I was asking FOR THE MONEY, WHAT SHOULD I GET. Thats capitalized for emphasis, not to show that I'm mad.

Honestly reading the opinions have made me know much more about CAI's already.


OK SO: Am I right for choosing the Weapon Dragon for a mere $140 rather than Air Induction Dynamics for $365?

And yes the Weapon R is a good CAI.
I know a few Quad owners who hav it and they like it much better then the stock air intake.
And for the price , you cant beat it with a stick :lol:

Though I would try to shop around on the Net you might find it cheaper or another one you like. Those were just a couple links I found real quick.

Glad the links helped you out!

I'm looking for a price to performance ratio. The lower the price, the better, until it starts cutting into the performance. The higher the performance the better, until its making the part cost to much.

I'm looking for a price to performance ratio. The lower the price, the better, until it starts cutting into the performance. The higher the performance the better, until its making the part cost to much.

If it goes into the wheel well or way away from the engine, chances are it's going to be just about as good as the next one. I really can't see why any others would be so much better that it would be worth spending an extra $200 on. You're really only getting a few hp, and you'll barely notice it when you hit the gas (you will but not much!). So spending almost $400 for a CAI is overboard if you ask me.

...and go through the heat propagation equation (I hate differential equations), so I'll spare everyone the math... look it up if you care and understand it....

Here you go Vipey...just thought you might want a break down on a 1-dimensional Heat Transfer Equation. If you break it out into 2 or 3 dimensional then you must break out into diffy Q but for 1-D you can ignore the diffyQ and use these!
:grinyes: :grinno: :wink: :iceslolan
http://photos-361.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v71/92/45/53800516/n53800516_30258361_8041.jpg

Also, the greatest part is that this problem is using the fact that you have a certain temperature of air that is passing outside the surface that you are dealing with causing a convection heat transfer on top of the natural conduction that occurs within the piece of material as it is.

Please keep in mind that this is naturally for a fin which if everyone was truly concerned with developing a TRUE CAI that would give the lowest temperature, you would add a series of fins on the outside of the CAI so that you could possibly make the CAI actually cooler than that of the surrounding air allowing you to actually use natural occuring air conditioning from volumetric air flow to cool the air as it passes through the CAI!

Here you go Vipey...just thought you might want a break down on a 1-dimensional Heat Transfer Equation. If you break it out into 2 or 3 dimensional then you must break out into diffy Q but for 1-D you can ignore the diffyQ and use these!
:grinyes: :grinno: :wink: :iceslolan
http://photos-361.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v71/92/45/53800516/n53800516_30258361_8041.jpg

Also, the greatest part is that this problem is using the fact that you have a certain temperature of air that is passing outside the surface that you are dealing with causing a convection heat transfer on top of the natural conduction that occurs within the piece of material as it is.

Please keep in mind that this is naturally for a fin which if everyone was truly concerned with developing a TRUE CAI that would give the lowest temperature, you would add a series of fins on the outside of the CAI so that you could possibly make the CAI actually cooler than that of the surrounding air allowing you to actually use natural occuring air conditioning from volumetric air flow to cool the air as it passes through the CAI!

Yes Boug that is the easy way, Screw the diffy's :grinyes:
Though is that the atcual write up for one CAI vs. CAI ?

Fins wouldnt be a bad idea......
I know some CAI are made from 100% silicone which is suposed to be "the best" but very very expensive!

The 4 cly CAI's do have a longer travel to get the air.
Wraping exhaust manifold(s) help keep the radiant heat down. Even on stock exh. header. Intake too :D

God I never wanted to see equations like that again :(

I agree, fins = best, hence why cpu heat sinks are covered in them :p But that doesn't say anything about why grandma's beloved CAI is better than a CAI from, say, ChromeIntakes.

Is the order of magnitude of the convection in the CAI even worth mentioning? I'd think not at the rate of speed the air inside is traveling. Without real numbers it's kinda hard to do some sort of a scale analysis but I'm GUESSING that overall it doesn't make too large of a difference!

God I never wanted to see equations like that again :(

I agree, fins = best, hence why cpu heat sinks are covered in them :p But that doesn't say anything about why grandma's beloved CAI is better than a CAI from, say, ChromeIntakes.

Is the order of magnitude of the convection in the CAI even worth mentioning? I'd think not at the rate of speed the air inside is traveling. Without real numbers it's kinda hard to do some sort of a scale analysis but I'm GUESSING that overall it doesn't make too large of a difference!

If you could actually get the air to circulate around the intake at the speed that you would be driving your convection coefficient (h) would actually end up being high enough to be worth mentioning. This is all relative though to how precise you really wanted to be. I suppose the biggest issue would be the actual cost to performance increase would not really be worth it though. Just thought you guys might wanna see the actual equations since I had just wrote it all out for heat transfer...:grinyes:

I suppose the biggest issue would be the actual cost to performance increase would not really be worth it though.

My initial point ;) And you def. know more than me in this area, I didn't like diff eq. at all :rolleyes:

My initial point ;) And you def. know more than me in this area, I didn't like diff eq. at all :rolleyes:

To be quite honest I'm not a big fan of DiffyQ but as a Mechanical Engineering student I don't really have a choice...haha.:grinyes:

To be quite honest I'm not a big fan of DiffyQ but as a Mechanical Engineering student I don't really have a choice...haha.:grinyes:

I was in engineering, now I'm in Atmospheric Sciences... I go to Purdue (big engineering school), but it was too retarded and I hated it. So I'm doing something more fun but less fiscally rewarding... what a tradeoff lol :iceslolan

So why do you accuse them of being "ripoffs" ?
DO you know for a fact some joker copied them spec to spec ?

Any Cavi 2.4L CAI will work!
Thier are not many, if any gains from one model to the next without using some thermoTec wrap which would look like poo.

All I said was its not worth $300-400 for a CAI when you get such small HP gains. Summet has one (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D17800764&N=700+4294908153+4294839780+4294819504+4294925239+ 4294813803+115&autoview=sku)that over $400 I bet it works kickass too :rolleyes:
How about this WEAPON R DRAGON INTAKE (http://www.autopartsperformance.com/performance/basket.php?makeid=22&modelid=244&year=2000&partid=217&brandid=3873&skipped_brand=true)??

Honestly the 2.4L is one of the hardest to find CAI's.
So why do you think no one makes them ...... ??

Here are 10 cheaper (http://motors.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=unknown&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=cavalier+2.4+Cold+air+intake&sacat=6000%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1)models.

All of those just sit in the same location as where the stock/OEM air filter box sits, and are replicas, knock off designs, of the AEM/RKSport intake. Actually some of them is just some funky flexible tubing that looks to me should be used on a household dryer instead of a car.

The Summit one is for the 2.4L Solstice, different motor, different drivetrain layout. woowoo.