Drive.
DVSNCYNIKL
10-16-2002, 02:20 PM
To the quick whores that frequent the forums, I don't mean driving a car, so scram!:finger:
To all the deep thinkers out here, give me your perspective on this. I will elaborate mine and what I'm trying to drive at with this thread.
Some of you may or may not know this, but ever since about April I was informed that the company that I've been working for the last 3-4 years is closing up shop as the company that bought us is moving things around. Through the art of redundancy, my job somehow became redundant and eliminated(There is more to this than I care to explain). Anyway, times have been hard and luckily for me, towards my nearing date, I have found a new job, but haven't started it yet as I have to await for a phone call(God I hate waiting!). With this said, let's get on with the thread.
I've often been told that I'm crazy because I am very outspoken. I will defend the little guy against the big bully or I will simply face off whatever threats come my way. At my job, I've had to "tone down" my "attitude" to become more "Professional". In laymens terms, they want me to talk nicely and kiss ass. Now those that know me, know that "kissing ass" isn't on my list of talents and I could care less for authority. I am a firm believer in Respect. You don't own it or get it, you earn it. With that said, my drive to maintain a high level of respect and maintaining it has been something of a second job.
People at my job often wonder why I bother getting in the face of upper management, piss them off, get on their last nerve, etc., only for them to go back eventually to their deceptive tactics. I always tell them, Drive. You see, when you have people who use their position as a "piss on anyone card", I tend to be that persons reality check. For example, I've had about 4 confrontations just with my immediate boss. When he sends me an email, he roars like a lion on it. But then I respond to his email and I get right in his face about it, he turns into Baby Simba.:huh:
Now my coworkers think I'm crazy because they wouldn't ever even think about doing what I do. But I tell them constantly, when you are in the right, there is nothing that they can do to take that from you. This is what drives me. Often I've had to use DVS tactics:D to let them know who's right or wrong or who should shut the fuck up. I've used their own words against them. But no matter how many confrontations, meetings and what have you, I find myself always ready to battle them.
It wasn't until this last confrontation, just this past week, that I realized with my time dwindling down and such, is it worth continuing this battle. I mean, granted there will be other situations in other locations that will come up and will need to be addressed. But do you ever find yourself saying, "this shit isn't worth it anymore. Why do I even bother fighting?"
I ask this because for the first time in my entire life, I actually asked myself this and, this to me, is something that I would never, ever consider or fathome. As much as I hate fighting, I always find myself having to get either physical or verbal with a situation in one form or another. Granted the physical is very small in comparison to the verbal, but nonetheless, it is there. I have two months left at my current job and then it is out the door for me. But no matter what, I still have this inside of me to continue driving for my respect and whatever else it is I deserve. So what drives you to continue in this struggle of life? Have you ever found yourself doubting yourself? Have you ever given up? If you've given up, what made you get back "on the horse" and start over? Lastly, would you ever contemplate giving up again?
There, now I welcome the feedback.:D
One other thing, any whoring or nonsense posted within this thread will be deleted with no notice.
To all the deep thinkers out here, give me your perspective on this. I will elaborate mine and what I'm trying to drive at with this thread.
Some of you may or may not know this, but ever since about April I was informed that the company that I've been working for the last 3-4 years is closing up shop as the company that bought us is moving things around. Through the art of redundancy, my job somehow became redundant and eliminated(There is more to this than I care to explain). Anyway, times have been hard and luckily for me, towards my nearing date, I have found a new job, but haven't started it yet as I have to await for a phone call(God I hate waiting!). With this said, let's get on with the thread.
I've often been told that I'm crazy because I am very outspoken. I will defend the little guy against the big bully or I will simply face off whatever threats come my way. At my job, I've had to "tone down" my "attitude" to become more "Professional". In laymens terms, they want me to talk nicely and kiss ass. Now those that know me, know that "kissing ass" isn't on my list of talents and I could care less for authority. I am a firm believer in Respect. You don't own it or get it, you earn it. With that said, my drive to maintain a high level of respect and maintaining it has been something of a second job.
People at my job often wonder why I bother getting in the face of upper management, piss them off, get on their last nerve, etc., only for them to go back eventually to their deceptive tactics. I always tell them, Drive. You see, when you have people who use their position as a "piss on anyone card", I tend to be that persons reality check. For example, I've had about 4 confrontations just with my immediate boss. When he sends me an email, he roars like a lion on it. But then I respond to his email and I get right in his face about it, he turns into Baby Simba.:huh:
Now my coworkers think I'm crazy because they wouldn't ever even think about doing what I do. But I tell them constantly, when you are in the right, there is nothing that they can do to take that from you. This is what drives me. Often I've had to use DVS tactics:D to let them know who's right or wrong or who should shut the fuck up. I've used their own words against them. But no matter how many confrontations, meetings and what have you, I find myself always ready to battle them.
It wasn't until this last confrontation, just this past week, that I realized with my time dwindling down and such, is it worth continuing this battle. I mean, granted there will be other situations in other locations that will come up and will need to be addressed. But do you ever find yourself saying, "this shit isn't worth it anymore. Why do I even bother fighting?"
I ask this because for the first time in my entire life, I actually asked myself this and, this to me, is something that I would never, ever consider or fathome. As much as I hate fighting, I always find myself having to get either physical or verbal with a situation in one form or another. Granted the physical is very small in comparison to the verbal, but nonetheless, it is there. I have two months left at my current job and then it is out the door for me. But no matter what, I still have this inside of me to continue driving for my respect and whatever else it is I deserve. So what drives you to continue in this struggle of life? Have you ever found yourself doubting yourself? Have you ever given up? If you've given up, what made you get back "on the horse" and start over? Lastly, would you ever contemplate giving up again?
There, now I welcome the feedback.:D
One other thing, any whoring or nonsense posted within this thread will be deleted with no notice.
replicant_008
10-16-2002, 05:35 PM
I do hear what you saying DVS. I work as a manager in a multinational company and can relate to a lot of things you have said. And incidentally I'm finishing up with the company next week after three and a half years here.
I really do enjoy my job here and there is a significant part of me that would have liked to have stayed but I need a new challenge and the position I am starting soon will give me that.
In terms of the 'professional' approach to things - I like you have a tendency to be assertive about issues. And my boss knew he didn't hire a 'yes man' when I started, he wanted someone who would question the 'status quo' and in a culture of inertia that we had here initially - he wanted someone would take a blowtorch to some major issues we had here regarding the health of the business.
But something I have learnt is that not everyone wants change. In fact, there are a lot of people who fear change and its consequences - some with good reasons. And a lot of what people perceive about me was derived from things that were acutely aware of.
We talked a little while ago about the MBTI I'm an ENTP - I've used other development tools as well and I profile as highly competitive, achievement-oriented, strong ethical orientation plus I also have the double-edged sword of profiling in the 94-96 percentile for numerical, logical and verbal reasoning.
In other words, I am a very driven individual with a need for achievement and to effect change as a means of progress.
Based on work I've done including 360 degree feedback, reviews with my peers and staff and the management team - this mixture can be easily perceived as "intellectually arrogant," "win at all costs," "argumentative" etc.
Part of this perception is due to that double-edged sword of my inherent analytical skills and my decision making style - I'm very quick to make a decision and I can analyse data, facts and derive analysis and see causal relationships more quickly than the majority of the population. On the other hand, this can be negatively perceived as arrogance and patronising by some - 'he already knows the answer why ask me?'
I've also learnt in the longer term, that these preferences and perceptions 'right or wrong' have a really significant effect on the interpersonal relationships I have here. So much so that, in some cases, when there were some very significant personal issues outside of my work environment - my work was being affected and my work environment felt like a battlefield.
To his credit, my boss and the directors made the effort to help me out. We agreed to some development goals, some professional development including some personal one-on-one training and counselling as well as taking some wider responsibility within the company.
I can't say that it's perfect - it never will be, as I have said before we have preferences but I've learnt to moderate some of the behaviors that reinforced some of the negative perceptions of being hyper-competitive, employed some techniques such as taking a coaching/mentoring role (which I use a lot outside of work), learnt a lot about patience and managed a lot of the relationships better.
I've learnt that rather than tackle things head on - I do have other options (I can often get better results by influencing ie with a quiet word on the phone or in person with my boss and directors) which will get the same result. I've also learnt I don't have to win everything or be right all of the time - just when it matters to me and the people I'm standing up for.
I've also learnt as a manager that I have to lead too. There are a lot of things here I don't agree with, still don't. But I can't let this demoralise the people that look up to me as a leader. I've figured that if that company makes a decision, for whatever reason, it's my job and obligation to do the best I can which means I need to reinforce the positives of a policy and try to make the best of it for everybody. This is despite the fact that behind closed doors that I may have a serious disagreement and that others share the same feelings about issues.
I guess I've learnt a lot about myself and continue to do so everyday. There are lessons to be learnt and experience is a great teacher (although she can be very expensive).
Hope this is useful DVS and don't get down on yourself - it's folk like us that stop companies falling into holes from inertia, prevent the exploitation of our people and make changes that benefit everyone.
It's our role as agents of change and we should stand up for what is right (and we shouldn't forget that!)
I really do enjoy my job here and there is a significant part of me that would have liked to have stayed but I need a new challenge and the position I am starting soon will give me that.
In terms of the 'professional' approach to things - I like you have a tendency to be assertive about issues. And my boss knew he didn't hire a 'yes man' when I started, he wanted someone who would question the 'status quo' and in a culture of inertia that we had here initially - he wanted someone would take a blowtorch to some major issues we had here regarding the health of the business.
But something I have learnt is that not everyone wants change. In fact, there are a lot of people who fear change and its consequences - some with good reasons. And a lot of what people perceive about me was derived from things that were acutely aware of.
We talked a little while ago about the MBTI I'm an ENTP - I've used other development tools as well and I profile as highly competitive, achievement-oriented, strong ethical orientation plus I also have the double-edged sword of profiling in the 94-96 percentile for numerical, logical and verbal reasoning.
In other words, I am a very driven individual with a need for achievement and to effect change as a means of progress.
Based on work I've done including 360 degree feedback, reviews with my peers and staff and the management team - this mixture can be easily perceived as "intellectually arrogant," "win at all costs," "argumentative" etc.
Part of this perception is due to that double-edged sword of my inherent analytical skills and my decision making style - I'm very quick to make a decision and I can analyse data, facts and derive analysis and see causal relationships more quickly than the majority of the population. On the other hand, this can be negatively perceived as arrogance and patronising by some - 'he already knows the answer why ask me?'
I've also learnt in the longer term, that these preferences and perceptions 'right or wrong' have a really significant effect on the interpersonal relationships I have here. So much so that, in some cases, when there were some very significant personal issues outside of my work environment - my work was being affected and my work environment felt like a battlefield.
To his credit, my boss and the directors made the effort to help me out. We agreed to some development goals, some professional development including some personal one-on-one training and counselling as well as taking some wider responsibility within the company.
I can't say that it's perfect - it never will be, as I have said before we have preferences but I've learnt to moderate some of the behaviors that reinforced some of the negative perceptions of being hyper-competitive, employed some techniques such as taking a coaching/mentoring role (which I use a lot outside of work), learnt a lot about patience and managed a lot of the relationships better.
I've learnt that rather than tackle things head on - I do have other options (I can often get better results by influencing ie with a quiet word on the phone or in person with my boss and directors) which will get the same result. I've also learnt I don't have to win everything or be right all of the time - just when it matters to me and the people I'm standing up for.
I've also learnt as a manager that I have to lead too. There are a lot of things here I don't agree with, still don't. But I can't let this demoralise the people that look up to me as a leader. I've figured that if that company makes a decision, for whatever reason, it's my job and obligation to do the best I can which means I need to reinforce the positives of a policy and try to make the best of it for everybody. This is despite the fact that behind closed doors that I may have a serious disagreement and that others share the same feelings about issues.
I guess I've learnt a lot about myself and continue to do so everyday. There are lessons to be learnt and experience is a great teacher (although she can be very expensive).
Hope this is useful DVS and don't get down on yourself - it's folk like us that stop companies falling into holes from inertia, prevent the exploitation of our people and make changes that benefit everyone.
It's our role as agents of change and we should stand up for what is right (and we shouldn't forget that!)
taranaki
10-16-2002, 05:53 PM
The power of individuality is a wonderful thing.It is one of the hardest qualities to preserve when working in a corporate structure.In any employment situation,it is normal for a written contact to covers the arrangement.Most of these are bullshit.The average corporate employer uses an off-the-shelf contract written by legal experts,which boils down to 2 basic agreements.
1.Here's what we are paying.
2.For that,we own you.
Thankfully,most employment contracts are over written by employment legislation.There are rules as to how an employer can treat you,and what constitutes fairness in the workplace.Your employer may well know about it when he is in breach of the rules,but he sure as hell isn't going to tell you.
This is where the drive comes in.If you want to be respected and valued as an employee,you have to ensure ruthlessly that your employer meets all of his obligations in a manner that allows you to retain your dignity and your identity.Unless you are prepared to stick your neck out when there's a problem,you become just another corporate sheep,to be farmed by the middle management.You will end up getting blamed for the incompetence of middle management,get extra duties dumped on you by lazy workmates,and eventually get pushed out of the door when somebody thinks the numbers don't look right.
It doesn't matter how many times you have to stand up for your rights,you should stand every time.Without your individuality,you mean no more to the company than the desk that you sit in front of.You become a commodity,to be bought,sold,traded like any inanimate object the company owns.You become owned.When you get sick,you are seen as a liability rather than a person with needs,and when you move on,you are deemed to have let the company down.If you don't fight for your personality in the business world,you don't get to keep it.And without it,you are just numbers on a sheet to your employer.
1.Here's what we are paying.
2.For that,we own you.
Thankfully,most employment contracts are over written by employment legislation.There are rules as to how an employer can treat you,and what constitutes fairness in the workplace.Your employer may well know about it when he is in breach of the rules,but he sure as hell isn't going to tell you.
This is where the drive comes in.If you want to be respected and valued as an employee,you have to ensure ruthlessly that your employer meets all of his obligations in a manner that allows you to retain your dignity and your identity.Unless you are prepared to stick your neck out when there's a problem,you become just another corporate sheep,to be farmed by the middle management.You will end up getting blamed for the incompetence of middle management,get extra duties dumped on you by lazy workmates,and eventually get pushed out of the door when somebody thinks the numbers don't look right.
It doesn't matter how many times you have to stand up for your rights,you should stand every time.Without your individuality,you mean no more to the company than the desk that you sit in front of.You become a commodity,to be bought,sold,traded like any inanimate object the company owns.You become owned.When you get sick,you are seen as a liability rather than a person with needs,and when you move on,you are deemed to have let the company down.If you don't fight for your personality in the business world,you don't get to keep it.And without it,you are just numbers on a sheet to your employer.
Oz
10-16-2002, 11:49 PM
From what you have shared of your situation can I suggest the following -
You obviously have a penchant for / value respect - both in yourself and in others. You ask is it worth continuing fighting when that hasn't worked so far. My answer is NO. To the question of giving up is also NO. Try different tactics until you find one that works. Then stick with it - this way you earn much more respect for getting results as well.
You obviously have a penchant for / value respect - both in yourself and in others. You ask is it worth continuing fighting when that hasn't worked so far. My answer is NO. To the question of giving up is also NO. Try different tactics until you find one that works. Then stick with it - this way you earn much more respect for getting results as well.
DVSNCYNIKL
10-17-2002, 10:22 AM
Some good feed back so far. I will speak more on what I think and how I operate. I've read all your responses, Replicant's kinda is more along the lines of what I do.
I started my job about 3 yrs ago in a data entry department. Keying in the questionnaires that my company collects to maintain a database of Investment Managers worldwide. We are a part of the Thomson Financial umbrella so to speak. Some of you may be familiar with that name.
Anyway, I've moved up the ladder of success at a very fast rate. I set the record for the fastest moving employee ever, with 3 promotions, all within the same year. Part of this success has been my ability to learn my job inside out and do it better than the next guy, but I'm no cutthroat. I don't believe in making another person lose their job. To me, and OZRiceboy touched upon it, Respect to me is everything. Nowadays, it's really all you have. People are too enveloped in their wealth or power that they believe they can do whatever it is that they want.
Currently I'm in a Supervisorial/Management position on the Editorial Buy-Side of my company. I've pretty much busted my ass to get here and hold it with a certain level of pride. But, with all the people under me, I never let the position or title get the better of me. I wish I could say the same about a few of the other managers who I have the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with. They use tactics which I believe are counter-productive to the collective good that is our company. On the brighter side, employees go out of their way to do things for me that they wouldn't bother doing for the other managers. This is probably why they don't like me and wish I would leave the company.
The funny thing about this all is, I know they hate me and wish I'd leave, but I won't. You see, knowing that they don't like me just feeds me more. If I can be the "wrench in the works", I'll be it. They despise the fact that the employees look up to me more than them. This is all attributed to the fact that I respect each and every one of them. I don't treat them as employees, but, as equals. They know who and what I am, they don't need to be reminded of it. Whereas, some managers and my boss feel the need to always convey who and what they are in this company. It sickens me to think that with a promotion here or there that one can change their personna based on their level of achievement.
I've always been one to suggest change, but I do it in a way that it will have little to no impact to the way things are done. To be honest, of all the changes done at my company, mine have gone pretty well with little or no repercussions. I lead in such a way that everyone impacts the overall decision in a certain way. I have their respect and they never once crossed me. They know that I do things to help them as well as the company. I believe that being an outspoken person has it's advantages. People will be less likely to step over you if they know they won't be able to walk away clean. I have one employee, which I really feel for. The poor guy is just one of those people that will not say a word to anyone higher up and he really gets pushed around.
I assigned him once to a task which he completed, thoroughly and better than I had anticipated. But as soon as he was done, here comes another manager to reprimand him for not doing something for him. Needless to say, he took the bashing and went about his business. This of course pissed me the hell off. Later that day I had given him another assignment and told him to take his time, knowing full well that the guy that yelled at him last would do it again. This time, I was near him to witness it. Sure enough, towards the end of the day, that manager was going to give him something and started yelling at him for already having something to do. I immediately got up, this guy turned as white as a ghost when he saw me. After pretty much shutting him up and sending him on his way, I made sure I left him with these last words, "Show him some fuckin' respect!" With that, he never bothered that employee again. That employee had a smile a mile wide. It was worth every minute of my time.
I no longer have the desire to quit and believe me, I have more tactics up my sleeve to solve problems than I lead on. It's just that sometimes or most of the time, being assertive gets the job done a lot better. After writing this post yesterday, I took some time to reflect on my life and what I have done. I then said to myself, "You have to be crazy to give up now and let people walk all over you! So many people look up to you for leadership or companionship and you're just going to let that all go?" After a little more contemplation, I'm happy to say that I no longer feel myself losing my drive. I welcome all challenges and will keep doing what I feel is right and in the best interest of the next man/woman.
Should my opponents not like that, well, here's something for you.
Kiss my ASS!!!!!!!:devil: :devil: :devil:
DVS
I started my job about 3 yrs ago in a data entry department. Keying in the questionnaires that my company collects to maintain a database of Investment Managers worldwide. We are a part of the Thomson Financial umbrella so to speak. Some of you may be familiar with that name.
Anyway, I've moved up the ladder of success at a very fast rate. I set the record for the fastest moving employee ever, with 3 promotions, all within the same year. Part of this success has been my ability to learn my job inside out and do it better than the next guy, but I'm no cutthroat. I don't believe in making another person lose their job. To me, and OZRiceboy touched upon it, Respect to me is everything. Nowadays, it's really all you have. People are too enveloped in their wealth or power that they believe they can do whatever it is that they want.
Currently I'm in a Supervisorial/Management position on the Editorial Buy-Side of my company. I've pretty much busted my ass to get here and hold it with a certain level of pride. But, with all the people under me, I never let the position or title get the better of me. I wish I could say the same about a few of the other managers who I have the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with. They use tactics which I believe are counter-productive to the collective good that is our company. On the brighter side, employees go out of their way to do things for me that they wouldn't bother doing for the other managers. This is probably why they don't like me and wish I would leave the company.
The funny thing about this all is, I know they hate me and wish I'd leave, but I won't. You see, knowing that they don't like me just feeds me more. If I can be the "wrench in the works", I'll be it. They despise the fact that the employees look up to me more than them. This is all attributed to the fact that I respect each and every one of them. I don't treat them as employees, but, as equals. They know who and what I am, they don't need to be reminded of it. Whereas, some managers and my boss feel the need to always convey who and what they are in this company. It sickens me to think that with a promotion here or there that one can change their personna based on their level of achievement.
I've always been one to suggest change, but I do it in a way that it will have little to no impact to the way things are done. To be honest, of all the changes done at my company, mine have gone pretty well with little or no repercussions. I lead in such a way that everyone impacts the overall decision in a certain way. I have their respect and they never once crossed me. They know that I do things to help them as well as the company. I believe that being an outspoken person has it's advantages. People will be less likely to step over you if they know they won't be able to walk away clean. I have one employee, which I really feel for. The poor guy is just one of those people that will not say a word to anyone higher up and he really gets pushed around.
I assigned him once to a task which he completed, thoroughly and better than I had anticipated. But as soon as he was done, here comes another manager to reprimand him for not doing something for him. Needless to say, he took the bashing and went about his business. This of course pissed me the hell off. Later that day I had given him another assignment and told him to take his time, knowing full well that the guy that yelled at him last would do it again. This time, I was near him to witness it. Sure enough, towards the end of the day, that manager was going to give him something and started yelling at him for already having something to do. I immediately got up, this guy turned as white as a ghost when he saw me. After pretty much shutting him up and sending him on his way, I made sure I left him with these last words, "Show him some fuckin' respect!" With that, he never bothered that employee again. That employee had a smile a mile wide. It was worth every minute of my time.
I no longer have the desire to quit and believe me, I have more tactics up my sleeve to solve problems than I lead on. It's just that sometimes or most of the time, being assertive gets the job done a lot better. After writing this post yesterday, I took some time to reflect on my life and what I have done. I then said to myself, "You have to be crazy to give up now and let people walk all over you! So many people look up to you for leadership or companionship and you're just going to let that all go?" After a little more contemplation, I'm happy to say that I no longer feel myself losing my drive. I welcome all challenges and will keep doing what I feel is right and in the best interest of the next man/woman.
Should my opponents not like that, well, here's something for you.
Kiss my ASS!!!!!!!:devil: :devil: :devil:
DVS
YogsVR4
10-17-2002, 10:26 PM
To your original post DVS -
Forgive me if I ramble a bit, getting kind of worked up watching the Red Wings game. I can say there are times I just want to say "I just can do this shit anymore" but then the dominant part of me rises up and says to not let the bastards get me down. Much like you, I often get in the face of the top level management but there are only a couple levels above me so I guess I am not going to far up the tree. Our little company grew from 15 people when I hired in to 125 now (nine years later) and one of the things we thrived on was being able to speak our minds.
Our owner sold the company to an investment firm (out of Canada :) ) a year and a half ago and the owners moved on from being consultants a few months ago. Our new top dogs are often taken aback at how I and a handful of us long timers will stand up and call them on the BS that finds its way into all organizations.
I don’t think I can change my approach. Its worked for me for decades now so why change now? Since its worked for you now for the last few years you should stick with it. It’s a refreshing thing to some of your coworkers (even if they don’t say it) and you have to stay with your strengths.
While I will inevitably have times when I’ll want to throw up my hands in resignation, I am sure it wont last.
Forgive me if I ramble a bit, getting kind of worked up watching the Red Wings game. I can say there are times I just want to say "I just can do this shit anymore" but then the dominant part of me rises up and says to not let the bastards get me down. Much like you, I often get in the face of the top level management but there are only a couple levels above me so I guess I am not going to far up the tree. Our little company grew from 15 people when I hired in to 125 now (nine years later) and one of the things we thrived on was being able to speak our minds.
Our owner sold the company to an investment firm (out of Canada :) ) a year and a half ago and the owners moved on from being consultants a few months ago. Our new top dogs are often taken aback at how I and a handful of us long timers will stand up and call them on the BS that finds its way into all organizations.
I don’t think I can change my approach. Its worked for me for decades now so why change now? Since its worked for you now for the last few years you should stick with it. It’s a refreshing thing to some of your coworkers (even if they don’t say it) and you have to stay with your strengths.
While I will inevitably have times when I’ll want to throw up my hands in resignation, I am sure it wont last.
DVSNCYNIKL
10-18-2002, 08:10 AM
Good words Yogs!!!:ylsuper
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