Scion VS Celica GTS

First off, I don't want to bash the celica, but I have done so much research on this battle, and the tC takes the win. I was back and forth with another forum, and these guys were telling me its not possible for the tC (160hp) to take the GTS (180hp) but no one takes into the consideration the determining factor.....TORQUE!!! CELICA GTS 138 ftlb SCION tC 160 ftlb So for all you tC owners, stand proud b/c it is a race won for the tC. Now in a long high speed race the celica wins, its got a higher top speed and its a 6 spd, But from light to light, or 1/4 mile, the tC is the big hitter. Also I have had the expirence to run my friends 2003 GTS, and its true, hands down, off the break, and for what it counts, the tC was 2 cars ahead the entire time.

They told me it was the driver..........lol...."The celica is a hard car to drive, you have to be really good to drive one" yea right. I'm not the best, but I can drive. All the way to MIR, I tore his car up, and all the way back, he drove my car, and beat me down just the same. FIND A NEW EXCUSE!!!!

HAY GUYZ TORQQQ!!! LOLZ

Torque at the engine means nothing. You know that box sort of dealie connected to the engine with all those gears in it? Those gears multiply the torque created by the engine. Look up gearing numbers for the tC. Multiply engine torque by 1st gear, then multiply that by final drive ratio. You'll find that the torque to the wheels is in the thousands! Astonishing!

I know the whole deal with the torque, but still using the numbers supplied by the dealer, and the experience with dyno's, and racing. What else can you have. Got 2 have bragging rights. Its all we got. Ain't it great?
HAY GUYZ TORQQQ!!! LOLZ

Torque at the engine means nothing. You know that box sort of dealie connected to the engine with all those gears in it? Those gears multiply the torque created by the engine. Look up gearing numbers for the tC. Multiply engine torque by 1st gear, then multiply that by final drive ratio. You'll find that the torque to the wheels is in the thousands! Astonishing!

I'd say the weight of the tC is one of the main points to brag about. It's rare to see a car under 3,000 pounds coming out now. Even the new lancer weighs over 3,000 pounds. How they manage to stuff these poor cars full of mass, I will never know.

But yea, peak HP and torque numbers are just flat out dick waving. Pretty much worthless numbers in the real world. Torque curve is the most valuable piece of information you can get on a car.

that's for a different discussion though

Actually i would take the GTS in the 1/4 mile over the tC. Yea the tC has alot of torque, but thats because its heavy (2950 lbs) versus the celica is a mere 2500 lbs. the celica doesn't need the torque because its 400 lbs lighter. Theres a guy on this forum running a 14.7 in the quarter with a bone stock Celica GTS. The fastest I've seen a stock tC run is like mid 15s. With that said, the tC is alot easier to launch with all that torque,the Celica is definetly much harder to launch.

scion TC vs toyota celica




scion wins


note: scion and toyota are the same brands, duh!!!! :screwy:

i don't doubt that you beat your friend cause wierd things do happen, but theres no way a stock tc can beat a stock celica gts. the celica is much lighter and is more powerfull. just cause you have a little bit more torque won't make up for 300-400lbs of car. i've driven both scion tc's and celica gts before when i was interested in a daily driver and the tc felt much heavier and slugish then the celica. if you check out the statistics provided by magazines and some internet sites you'll find that most celica gts run very low 15 second times compared to high 15's to low 16's produced by the tc. it's all about power to weight ratio.

It is possible that your buddy's car is running poorly or perhaps he can't drive very well. I find it hard to believe that a celica gts is hard to launch. especially with that lower torque. you'd be less likely to spin off the line. Neither car is really hard to launch especially being stock and a NA 4 banger. i mean go to the track and see what your tc runs in the quarter. best you'll get is mid to high 15's. and it's been proven many times that celicas can run low 15's. what your insinuating is that your stock scion tc runs faster then 15.1 and thats impossible unless you completely removed your interior or have the trd supercharger. hell my 04 specv with 180ftlbs of torque and 180hp only ran 15.1 stock. which is right on target on what it's suppoed to. theres no way your heavier, under powered car is gonna be that fast.

Not trying to be a dick, but at some point you have to come to the reality of the situation.

maybe the celica was auto :D. and maybe the tC was modded. he failed to mention that

yea if the celica was auto then you would deffinately take it. was it an auto? do you have any mods?

i dont think this guy is a regular poster. so you might not get a reply =/. i have to agree. the tC would need the factory supercharger to beat the gts. oh and i found an error in his first post. the tC does not have 160 ft lbs of torque, its actually 163.

Thank god you corrected the torque value.

It's pretty obvious that the lighter car with more hp is going to win a drag race, considering variables like weather and driver are eliminated. Horsepower is a measure of work done/time. Say that to yourself out loud and then try to formulate an argument as to what torque has to do with it.

I can't stress enough how important it is that you found that 3ft/lb error. That could account for up to 36ft/lb on the ground in 1st gear! WOW!

Actually a correction. the 05 and 06 tCs came with 160hp and 163tq. the 07 tC 161hp and 162tq. The new 07s are also available in a spec version. (Think of the WRX and WRX TR, same car with less starting options for about $1,000 less or so) The spec version loses the glass roof and weighs 2,873lbs versus the 2,901 in the regular tC. 28lbs less.

:|

Impressive figures my man. Don't forget the spec also comes with sweet steelies, that's got to be like, 1lb per wheel you save vs. aluminum 17x7's.

Man, the spec tc sure is a lot faster than the regular version.

Also, it still has the very same glass roof, it just doesn't open.

While we're on the topic of the spec tc, let's go over where it could possibly lose even more weight.
The passenger side window no longer goes auto-up, the armrest no longer has a pocket in the top of it, and the steering wheel is completely plastic! Its as if the ounces are just falling off of this car!

Do you think 28 pounds lost and 3ft/lbs gained will be significant at all? Honestly?

28lbs isn't very significant. I do agree. the tC needs to go on a diet to compete. I think 2,800lbs would be ideal for its power. or bump up the hp to say at least 170 or so. The bottom line is, that its too heavy.

it's not really a car thats made for racing. given the weight and fwd setup it really lacks potential. sure you can build the motor and throw a turbo on it, along with many other after market parts, but your still gonna be faced with a heavy fwd car.

I like the car. the interior is nice and refined and the body isn't all out economy go cart looking like many other cars. I've looked at the car before and test drove one. My only intential with it woulda been a peppy refined daily driver. i wouldn't mod it.

How can you guys say tq has nothing to do with it? err, the tc is infact 400lbs "fluffier" but that extra 30lbs of tq will more than make up for it, and once that car gets going their is really nothing holding it back, and as for a stick being better than an auto that's jibberish too if you have a nice tranny tou let me know of ANY human that can shift faster than an automotic? period? granted it might FEEL faster than a auto it's just not, y do you think a 1991 corvette has 245 hp but 380lbs of tq? hmmm maybe because it only needs 240 hp because with that much tq it's all about how fast you GET to that top speed :) not what the top speed is

Hm. then why are motorcycles so fast? they dont have any torque. oh thats right. power to weight ratio :). i think its been settled already. the standard is not necessarily faster than the auto. BUT. a standard transmission gives you ALOT more control over the car. in a drag race, being able to control your launch is more beneficial than just flooring the gas. Stock for stock, the Celica GTS driver would have to have really messed up to lose to a tC, or it was auto in which case it would be believable. whatever the case eventually the celica would pass the tC. (160hp vs 180hp) ?

hmm... i guess your right with the motorcycle thing, but still ... well i guess even if that 30lbs took accound for that 400lbs then then tq would be even but the gts would still have that hp gain over the tc.. so i spose it would be able to beat it, but my little mx3 it only has 115 lbs of tq and i can beat tc's all day long :) so i dunno what's up with that, i don't wanna look into the weight n whatnot but im pretty sure it's not THAT much lighter, and as far as hp goes it came stock with 130hp and 115ftlbs tq, now i pushin 145hp and 126.xx something tq, soo it's not a power house but it does it's job and scions seem to not have much advantage over me

I think you proved my point. YOur mx3 makes little torque, but a pretty good power for the weight. Your Mx3 weights 2541 lbs. I guess depending how well it was maintaited, it might or might not be making close to its stock hp rating. But it is believable. I think a tC would be able to take you, but not by alot.