RadiatorLeak/overheating
Mic1980
03-27-2007, 01:11 PM
Recently my car has stopped producing heat to the interior of the car. And my radiator has a leak on the top of it here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRb0j0gnQ0
also let me mention at once like a week b4 all this started I noticed the water in the coolant resevwoir was boiling when I shut off the car. All these symptoms happened after I recently changed my starter. I have read the FAQ here at AF and my Haynes Neon auto repair guide. I feel pressure on the upper radiator hose and it's hot from what I read that means the thermostat is working. I'm just curious if the leak on my radiator would stop the heat from going into my interior and create my engine to overheat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRb0j0gnQ0
also let me mention at once like a week b4 all this started I noticed the water in the coolant resevwoir was boiling when I shut off the car. All these symptoms happened after I recently changed my starter. I have read the FAQ here at AF and my Haynes Neon auto repair guide. I feel pressure on the upper radiator hose and it's hot from what I read that means the thermostat is working. I'm just curious if the leak on my radiator would stop the heat from going into my interior and create my engine to overheat.
denisond3
03-27-2007, 04:58 PM
A radiator leak would allow coolant to escape, and would result in overheating eventually. Having changed the starter wouldnt have caused this, unless in that process you punctured/cracked either the radiator or one of the rubber hoses for the auto heater that run under/behind the intake manifold. This car requires use of a small hand mirror and a good hand-light!
I cant imagine a leaking radiator would have anything to do with lack of heat in the interior. There should be a pair of rubber (heater) hoses running from the firewall beside the brake booster, to a pair of metal tubes at the drivers side of the engine - hidden under the air inlet tube coming from the box where the air filter is at the back of the engine. This air ube itself is partly covered by the big wide air inlet plenum that covers the top of the engine. The two hoses feed the hot water to/from the interior heater. The engine will run fine with the plenum removed for diagnosis.
When you start up an engine that is cold, these two hoses should get warm even before the upper radiator hose does. If they dont, there must be some blockage. When you saw 'boiling' in the coolant overflow bottle, that might have been steam bubbling in from the engine head water jacket - rather than boiling coolant. But its not normal, unless you didnt have enough antifreeze mixed in with the water in your cooling system.
You will need to fix/replace the leaking radiator, and do a cooling system pressure check as part of the repair. If your problem persists after you fix the radiator leak, you might need to do a compression check, looking for signs of a leaking headgasket. Look on the bright side; radiators dont last forever, and ten years old is good service from a radiator.
Check that the heater controls are still working; i.e. with the engine idling the air flow should move from the defrosters, to the dash vents, and to the floor outlets; as you move the control knob. If not, there is something wrong with your heater system.
I cant imagine a leaking radiator would have anything to do with lack of heat in the interior. There should be a pair of rubber (heater) hoses running from the firewall beside the brake booster, to a pair of metal tubes at the drivers side of the engine - hidden under the air inlet tube coming from the box where the air filter is at the back of the engine. This air ube itself is partly covered by the big wide air inlet plenum that covers the top of the engine. The two hoses feed the hot water to/from the interior heater. The engine will run fine with the plenum removed for diagnosis.
When you start up an engine that is cold, these two hoses should get warm even before the upper radiator hose does. If they dont, there must be some blockage. When you saw 'boiling' in the coolant overflow bottle, that might have been steam bubbling in from the engine head water jacket - rather than boiling coolant. But its not normal, unless you didnt have enough antifreeze mixed in with the water in your cooling system.
You will need to fix/replace the leaking radiator, and do a cooling system pressure check as part of the repair. If your problem persists after you fix the radiator leak, you might need to do a compression check, looking for signs of a leaking headgasket. Look on the bright side; radiators dont last forever, and ten years old is good service from a radiator.
Check that the heater controls are still working; i.e. with the engine idling the air flow should move from the defrosters, to the dash vents, and to the floor outlets; as you move the control knob. If not, there is something wrong with your heater system.
Mic1980
03-28-2007, 12:52 PM
denisond3 thanks for time and input It's aprreciated.I have a few more questions though...
what is the auto heater?
Also from what u say I should check to see if the 2 metal hoses directed to the interior are warm, if they are that means I do get heat and it is just being blocked somehow right?
I am going to put some plumbing pipe sealant on the radiator after I sand it, supposedly my uncle did that to his truck and it worked fine. but then again my radiator can be clogged.
the vents work ok
I have a feeling either my radiator is clogged or the thermostat is shut or open not allowing hot coolant to pass threw or coolant flow.
I just drove my car and noticed that the lower radiator hose wasn't really that hot compared to the upper hose is that normal? because I don't know which direction the coolant circulates.
what is the auto heater?
Also from what u say I should check to see if the 2 metal hoses directed to the interior are warm, if they are that means I do get heat and it is just being blocked somehow right?
I am going to put some plumbing pipe sealant on the radiator after I sand it, supposedly my uncle did that to his truck and it worked fine. but then again my radiator can be clogged.
the vents work ok
I have a feeling either my radiator is clogged or the thermostat is shut or open not allowing hot coolant to pass threw or coolant flow.
I just drove my car and noticed that the lower radiator hose wasn't really that hot compared to the upper hose is that normal? because I don't know which direction the coolant circulates.
denisond3
03-28-2007, 01:49 PM
Yes, the top radiator hose will be warmer than the bottom radiator hose - as the coolant flows from the engine head, into the top of the radiator, (where it gets cooled) then back into the engine block. By auto heater I mean the heater & a.c. for the car interior. You can have hot water flowing through the heater core under the dash, but if the 'doors' and flaps that allow air to flow through the heater core arent opening - you wont get heat. The doors are operated by vacuum that is obtained from the engines intake 'vacuum'. The vacuum connection is probably a fitting that is on the brake booster, where the bigger vacuum hose comes in from the front of the engine. Also the heater core can be partially clogged with silt from the cooling system. I dont know how much of a problem this is with Neons, but with the front wheel drive GM cars of the 80s, it was a common shortcoming.
Both of the tubes carrying coolant to the cars interior heater should be toasty warm - in the first 10 minutes of the engine running. In fact they should get warm before the radiator does. They get coolant flow even when the thermostat has not opened at all. It is certainly possible for a thermostat to be stuck open, or fail to open, or to stick part way. The easiest way to tell is to replace it and see if things are more 'normal'. If the thermostat were stuck fully open, you would still have some heat coming from your heater - it just wouldnt be as warm as previously.
You might try some epoxy paste/glue (like JB weld) on the crack in the radiator, but my experience with gluing on radiators is that it is really just to get you home from a trip. Radiators are consumeables - like tires and oil, but slower. If your radiator is over 8 years old or hasnt been professionally cleaned in that long - it probably it has lost much of its heat transfer capacity. And some radiator shops wont repair radiators with the plastic top and bottom tanks - because they find the repairs dont last very long.
You should keep a journal of the work you do on your car, with the date and mileage. This way if anyone else needs to work on it, they will have an idea what is new, what is not. For example - any mechanic would assume that a car with 120,000 miles on it would definitely need a new timing belt, new idler pulley, and a new water pump: Unless you had the record that it had been done at 90,000. It also helps when you want to sell the car.
When you want to clean out the cooling system in your car, one technique is to get it up to running temperature, then let it site for 10 minutes for the engine head to drop in temperature a little. Then, wearing heavy gloves, use a meat cleaver and slice through the bottom radiator hose. This will empty the cooling system faster than other methods, and get more of the rusty crud to flow out - before it has time to settle to the bottom of the cooling system passages.
Both of the tubes carrying coolant to the cars interior heater should be toasty warm - in the first 10 minutes of the engine running. In fact they should get warm before the radiator does. They get coolant flow even when the thermostat has not opened at all. It is certainly possible for a thermostat to be stuck open, or fail to open, or to stick part way. The easiest way to tell is to replace it and see if things are more 'normal'. If the thermostat were stuck fully open, you would still have some heat coming from your heater - it just wouldnt be as warm as previously.
You might try some epoxy paste/glue (like JB weld) on the crack in the radiator, but my experience with gluing on radiators is that it is really just to get you home from a trip. Radiators are consumeables - like tires and oil, but slower. If your radiator is over 8 years old or hasnt been professionally cleaned in that long - it probably it has lost much of its heat transfer capacity. And some radiator shops wont repair radiators with the plastic top and bottom tanks - because they find the repairs dont last very long.
You should keep a journal of the work you do on your car, with the date and mileage. This way if anyone else needs to work on it, they will have an idea what is new, what is not. For example - any mechanic would assume that a car with 120,000 miles on it would definitely need a new timing belt, new idler pulley, and a new water pump: Unless you had the record that it had been done at 90,000. It also helps when you want to sell the car.
When you want to clean out the cooling system in your car, one technique is to get it up to running temperature, then let it site for 10 minutes for the engine head to drop in temperature a little. Then, wearing heavy gloves, use a meat cleaver and slice through the bottom radiator hose. This will empty the cooling system faster than other methods, and get more of the rusty crud to flow out - before it has time to settle to the bottom of the cooling system passages.
Mic1980
03-30-2007, 01:17 PM
Well I got the car at like 170k, it's now at 198k. The previous owner was my mother but she doesn't know much but she did buy it new. I know the car has over 100k in highway miles.
Anyways I got some good news yesterday I applied some JB Weld at night, I sanded it and thoroughly, cleaned it with acetone. I also added more coolant, 50/50 mix. The resevroir was losing coolant probably because of the leak on the radiator I hope. The good news is my neon doesn't over heat and is kicking out hot air. Now what worries me now is if I keep losing coolant I'm scared to look at the oil cap or dip stick and see coolant mixed, so far there has been none and from the front side of the engine there is no sign of a head gasket leak.
Anyways I got some good news yesterday I applied some JB Weld at night, I sanded it and thoroughly, cleaned it with acetone. I also added more coolant, 50/50 mix. The resevroir was losing coolant probably because of the leak on the radiator I hope. The good news is my neon doesn't over heat and is kicking out hot air. Now what worries me now is if I keep losing coolant I'm scared to look at the oil cap or dip stick and see coolant mixed, so far there has been none and from the front side of the engine there is no sign of a head gasket leak.
Bear
03-30-2007, 04:54 PM
I am not the first nor the last to have the coolant recovery bottle leak. I had to pull mine and replace it with one from a salvage yard and now I no longer have the mysterious disappearing coolant problem.
Mic1980
04-01-2007, 11:03 AM
Just my luck PB weld was a very temperary fix it's sealing enough to keep the car cool but coolant some how penetrated it....oh well new radiator for $100.
Mic1980
04-01-2007, 09:21 PM
Hey Bear I haven't noticed any coolant on the ground so I'm most likely ok.
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