Another starting issue, however, no security light!!

Hello,
My wifes Alero is currently in the shop due to intermittent starting issues (it cranks and cranks but doesn't start). Car is a 2003 Alero with the 2.2L engine, just over 100,000 miles. I've read many of the posts with similar starting problems HOWEVER, this one is a bit different. No lights have ever come on in the dozen or so times that we've had this problem. I tried the spare key during one of the times that it wouldn't start and it didn't work either. It seems that once it starts malfunctioning, it just randomly starts whenever it wants to, sometimes after 3 attempts and other times it may take 15 trys to get it started. Of course, it didn't malfunction in the shop. However, since he'd seen similar problems caused by ignition problems he replaced the lock cylinder. Picked the car up today and it wouldn't start. Mechanic got to witness the problem this time. We got it started and back in the shop again. He hooked up a fuel pressure guage and of course, it started at least 30 times in a row...with no problems. Finally, after about 10 minutes of successful starting, it malfunctioned and the fuel pressure never changed while it was cranking. I'm assuming that he thought the fuel pressure would drop if it was the fuel pump causing the problem.
Where would you go from here? I'm already out $300 and it still isn't fixed. I'm still thinking ignition since it runs fine when it does start. Since there's no codes or lights to go by, I'm worried that I'll be changing parts until I'm broke. How do you rule out things like the BCM and ignition switch if it doesn't show any codes or lights?
Thanks,
Gil

Welcome to AF.

Do you recall what the fuel pressure readings were?

Very difficult without proper diagnostics equipment. How was it determined there were no codes? To properly troubleshoot body/chassis problems related to anti-theft deterrent/VATS/Passlock normally you have to take it to a GM dealer to put on a Tech II scan tool. A scan may reveal some stored DTC codes even though no SES/CEL or SVS light is on. It is possible you have a bad body control module or even PCM module. The fuel injection system pulse width modulation enable to the PCM module comes from the BCM module.

I'm not sure what the tool is called but the car was hooked up to some kind of computerized gizmo and I was told that were no codes stored in it. The fuel pressure reading on the guage was 55 at the schrader type valve in front, close to the battery. This reading was fairly consistent whether the car was running or just cranking. How would one determine a PCM or BCM problem? I'm assuming that the mechanic was going to check to see if the injectors were working properly today since the fuel system doesn't appear to be faulty at this point.

Thanks,
Gil

Fuel pressure reading looks normal. All the mechanic has to do is check for 12 volts which is at one side of the fuel injector coil at ignition to on and then check for a pulsing signal (lo/hi) on the other side of the coil which originates from the PCM module while cranking engine. With no codes troubleshooting will most likely be controlled substitution by replacing either the BCM or PCM. It could be a wiring problem so the mechanic should check the wiring associated with the circuits.

A little Update...Sort of....I was told that the correct voltage wasn't getting to the fuel pump. A test light showed weak and a meter showed low voltage. Battery was replaced Friday, car wouldn't start again today! Any help would be greatly appreciated at this point. Just for kicks, I tried to clean the ignition out with some contact cleaner on the key and I switched the AC Comp. relay with the Fuel Pump relay. What else could cause low voltage to the fuel pump?

Take Care,
Gil

A little Update...Sort of....I was told that the correct voltage wasn't getting to the fuel pump. A test light showed weak and a meter showed low voltage. Battery was replaced Friday, car wouldn't start again today! Any help would be greatly appreciated at this point. Just for kicks, I tried to clean the ignition out with some contact cleaner on the key and I switched the AC Comp. relay with the Fuel Pump relay. What else could cause low voltage to the fuel pump?

Take Care,
Gil

there may be a wire loose on the fuel pump.

What was the voltage reading with the meter? Part of the wiring to the fuel pump is exposed to the elements and located outside of the fuel tank. Check the electrical connector marked below. Look for corrosion and poor contact. It is located at the rear passenger side of the car underneath by the fuel filler neck area. Also, you can measure the voltage to the fuel pump there.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/aleropump02.jpg

I cleaned the contacts at the fuel pump connections but didn't have a meter to check voltage. Didn't seem to help though, it wouldn't start a couple of days later. We decided to just keep driving the car until it won't start on a regular basis. We are tired of it sitting in the shop for days on end starting and running perfectly 99% of the time.

I've had the ignition cylinder replaced and programmed to work with our old keys but isn't there an actual "ignition switch" also? I've heard talk of people cleaning the ignition switch with contact cleaner, just wondering what was actually being cleaned. And if I should just replace this part.

BTW: Does the key actually make contact with something when inserted or does it have to be turned first? I've read that it's possible to lose voltage through the ignition switch, I'm just trying to clarify some things.

Thanks for the help,
Gil

Well, today I got a little more information out of my car after it wouldn't start yet again for about 20 minutes. This time, instead of all of the indicator lights being on while the engine was cranking and going off after it started, like they normally do, None of the indicator lights were illuminated while trying to start the car. Finally, when the car did start, all of the lights that normally come on and go off after starting the engine did so (oil, check engine, security, etc..) Of course, this never happens at the shop so they can figure out what's going on. I'm at the point now that I'm going to just start having parts replaced until I find the right one. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Thanks,
Gil

Well, today I got a little more information out of my car after it wouldn't start yet again for about 20 minutes. This time, instead of all of the indicator lights being on while the engine was cranking and going off after it started, like they normally do, None of the indicator lights were illuminated while trying to start the car. Finally, when the car did start, all of the lights that normally come on and go off after starting the engine did so (oil, check engine, security, etc..) Of course, this never happens at the shop so they can figure out what's going on. I'm at the point now that I'm going to just start having parts replaced until I find the right one. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Thanks,
Gil

what do you try last to get it started?

I haven't tried anything the past few times that I've had the crank but no start problem. I just keeping trying and eventually it starts and runs perfectly after it does. Only things I've had done are the ignition cylinder replaced, a new battery, and I've switched the fuel pump relay and cleaned the wiring harness connections at the fuel pump. Funny thing is that it always starts first thing in the morning when it's cool....always. It seems to show symptoms after driving it for at least 20 minutes and then trying to restart it within a couple of hours. After it has sat overnight, it always starts the first time. The mechanic that works on my cars doesn't want to change any more parts with properly diagnosing the problem, but since it never fails to start when it's in the shop, I'm going to have to do something or it will never get fixed.
Also, I haven't ruled out any possiblities related to the security issues but I've never had the security light flash while it's cranking or stay on at any time.
Take Care,
Gil

My first guess would be the ignition switch. From what you are reporting, it sounds like you are loosing power randomly, classic switch problem. There are multiple circuits going through the switch, any of which could cause multiple issues. Not cylinder but the switch that the cylinder turns. My fuel pump circuit was weak overloading other circuits causing missing warning lights, etc. All because of bad contacts in the ignition switch. I haven't had any more problems after I replaced it. The switch is a weak point on this car. I think I gave $125 or so for my switch from GM. Good Luck

My 01 does the same thing...oh, mechanics have replaced the fuel pump, I've spent about $400 on the passlock system, etc....it just does it. It is the passlock system though. And I just let it be....To get the car started, all I need to do is turn the key to the on spot....let it sit for 15 minutes (sometimes the security light is on and when it goes off you know its done baking other times you may not have the light...just wait 15 minutes). Then turn the car off, and start it.

Works all the time...I'm always early now for everything because I leave myself 15 extra minutes just in case..:rofl:

The one thing that really disappoints me is how my car is peeling and rusting. Never had a car that has happened with before this one.

When your car won't start is it usually when it's been sitting for a while (few hours) or is it more like it starts fine, you run into the store and then when you come out it won't start? Also, will it turn over and stay on if you're giving it gas but stall out the minute you stop giving it gas? My car does the latter of the 2 and I thought i had it fixed. It seems fine if it's cold but if I turn it off to run in somewhere and come back out, it doesn't want to start. It hasn't done it now for months so I thought I was in the clear but it happened again today... it was fine all day, to and from work and gym, and then I went in somewhere and came out about 30 minutes later and it wouldn't start. Luckily I was down the street from home so i just went home. I went back to the car a few hours later and it started right up. So tempermental.

When your car won't start is it usually when it's been sitting for a while (few hours) or is it more like it starts fine, you run into the store and then when you come out it won't start? Also, will it turn over and stay on if you're giving it gas but stall out the minute you stop giving it gas? My car does the latter of the 2 and I thought i had it fixed. It seems fine if it's cold but if I turn it off to run in somewhere and come back out, it doesn't want to start. It hasn't done it now for months so I thought I was in the clear but it happened again today... it was fine all day, to and from work and gym, and then I went in somewhere and came out about 30 minutes later and it wouldn't start. Luckily I was down the street from home so i just went home. I went back to the car a few hours later and it started right up. So tempermental.

Update... I brought the car to the mechanic because I got stuck (for about 30 minutes) again. The problem IM finding with my car is that this only happens when the car is warm/hot and it turns over and idles really low (500) and when I go to put it into gear it stalls. The mechanic said it was the "Idle Air Control motor" that was acting up and he will replace it for me probably over the next week or so. I will follow up and let you know if that took care of the issue. Being stuck really stinks sometimes so now IM afraid to turn the car off to just run in someplace for fear I won't be able to get it going again. Why do we love (at least I do) these cars so much?

I haven't tried anything the past few times that I've had the crank but no start problem. I just keeping trying and eventually it starts and runs perfectly after it does. Only things I've had done are the ignition cylinder replaced, a new battery, and I've switched the fuel pump relay and cleaned the wiring harness connections at the fuel pump. Funny thing is that it always starts first thing in the morning when it's cool....always. It seems to show symptoms after driving it for at least 20 minutes and then trying to restart it within a couple of hours. After it has sat overnight, it always starts the first time. The mechanic that works on my cars doesn't want to change any more parts with properly diagnosing the problem, but since it never fails to start when it's in the shop, I'm going to have to do something or it will never get fixed.
Also, I haven't ruled out any possiblities related to the security issues but I've never had the security light flash while it's cranking or stay on at any time.
Take Care,
Gil


Ive been reading what's going on with your vehicle and trying to (hopefully) get an idea of what is wrong with my own. I have an 02 Alero and mine is not starting every morning. It turns over for 5 min. at a time but never catches fire. It sits in the parking lot at work for 8 hours every day and it cranks fine at the end of the day. It only does it in the mornings. Ive never put a fuel pump on my car (yea I know) and it has 111,000k miles on it. So Ive been told that I need to do that first. Have you tried that?