codes and CEL

HI gang, everything has been running pretty well on the new (used)engine on my 2001 Sportage, and my daughters Kia 2000 Sportage is happy with the head from my old engine, so far But... on my 2001 Sportage,
I keep getting the CEL light coming on. I bought a code reader, I'm getting a P0128 code. I changed the thermostat, I bought a Kia thermostate from the dealer just to make sure, and changed the temperature sensor module also, as they both came with the used engine. Everything is running normal. The CEL light DTC's I can erase, and I'm good for two weeks, then when sitting at a light, bang, it goes on again. the other code is P0502, which I think is the Idle are control, only It is only listed in the meters manual, not the kia's list. I'll take the IAC out and spray it with a cleaner Gumout makes for IAC's and MAP sensors, which works pretty well for a few months. but this temerature rate of rise has me scratching my head. what else could it be. I'll probabily change the IAC at the next service interval in a week or so, but that seems to be an expensive little part. any suggestions??

128 Coolant temperature LOW
502 Speed pickup signal Low/Range

Sportage [AL] > 2001 > Engine > 2.0 DOHC
Description P0128

An Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECTS) monitors the temperature of the coolant. This input is used by the ECM for engine control and as an enabling criteria for same diagnostics. The air flow coming into the engine is accumulated and used to determine if the engine has been driven within conditions that would allow the engine coolant to heat up normally to the thermostat regulating temperature. If the coolant temperature does not reach regulating temperature of the thermostat, diagnostics that use engine coolant temperature as enabling criteria, may not run when expected.
This DTC will set when there has been excessive time to reach a coolant temperature required for closed loop fuel control.
The ECM sets DTC P0128 If ECM detects decrease of coolant temp is larger than threshold value after opening of thermostat.

Description P0502
The Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) generates a waveform with a frequency according to the speed of the vehicle. The signal generated by VSS informs the ECM not only the vehicle speed is low or high but also the vehicle stops or not. The ECM uses this signal to control fuel injection, ignition timing, transmission/transaxle shift scheduling and torque converter clutch scheduling.
If there is no signal’s change, the ECM judged as a fault and DTC is set.
DTC Detecting Condition
Enable Conditions Engine speed > 2200rpm
Load value > 3.0 ms No signal 5.12 sec. Set After 2nd driving cycle

Well...ALthough annoying, none are threatening. However not reaching closed loop operation (if that is what results) could increase fuel burn.
502??? DOES THe speedometer work normally?...I'd check connectors, may be...TEll us of any interesting results with your search. That is weird....isn't it?

my error, the number was P0507 Idle control mechanism set too high.
Which I interpet to Idle air control. the only codes I'm getting are the two P0128 and P0507. The listing Matt gave me on this forum from Kia, doesn't list 507. I think the two are related. the code only pops up after the car is fully warmed up and just stoping for a light, last time after coming off an expressway and waiting again for a light. If the car had an electric fan, I would say theremocouple, but it's mechanical in the Kia.
No signs of overheating, everything is normal. But then again when I lost the last engine, everything was normal till the engine ceased, aftern the water pump disintegrated. it was still reading normal temperature on the gauge, by then it was too late the gauge still said normal. so I'm gun-shy about things to do with temperature.

Sportage [AL] > 2001 > Engine > 2.0 DOHC
Description DTC P0507 Idle Air Control System

When the TP sensor’s signal indicates closed throttle position and the engine is idling, the ECM adjusts the idle speed control actuator so that the engine runs at the correct idling speed, regardless of coolant temperature, load and etc. When the additional load applied in the engine, the air flow through the idle speed control actuator is increased momentarily to raise the idling speed. The idle speed control actuator is the double coil type and has two coils. The two coils are driven by seperate driver stages in the ECM. Dependibg on the pulse duty factor, the equilibrium of the magnetic forves of the two coils will result in different angles of the motor. In parallel to the throttle valve, a bypass hose line is arrange, where the idle speed actuator is inserted in.
If the actual engine speed is higher than the target engine speed at idle, the ECM judged as a fault and DTC is set.


DTC Detecting Condition

DTC Strategy Functionality check
Enable Conditions
Threshold value Acutal rpm - desired rpm : > 200rpm and ISC integrator value : > -11.46 lb/hFuel cut-off counter value : > 3
Diagnostic Time 7 sec. Continuous
MIL on condition Two driving cycle

I changed the IAC module, I noticed the little silver flapper in the old one was frozen, and it moved freely in the new one, so that fixed one code (p0507), I did an erase codes. ran the car for a day or so, and bang P0128 came back on again after driving in moderate traffic and waiting in stalled traffic. The manual says sticking thermostat, which I changed to a Kia thermostat, not after market and the temp sensor at the same time. what's left? could the fan clutch or fan be backwards? I assume that would give me an overheat condition, which it is not. everything is normal. ok guys what did I miss

A fan installed "backwards" will still move the air in the same direction: take one in your hands and turn it 180° and see the orientation of the blades: same. ONly the curvature of the blades makes it more efficient on one side than the other.
I would rather suspect the temperature sender.

Changed the sensor and the Thermostat, reset codes and it still lasts about a week, same thing again. I'm starting to think maybe the thermostat, even though it's brand new and from Kia, not aftermarket, may be bad or have some debris floating around. I did dump the antifreeze in December and replace it with fresh antifreeze. I will change the therostat this weekend and see if that's the problem. also I will make sure it opens at 195 degrees as it's supposed to. still scratching my head on this one, running out of options.

here another from another kia forum:
For those that have mentioned they have replaced the ECT sensor, and that the Temp Gauge on the dash reads normally....

There are 2 temp sensors located at the thermostat housing for the DOHC 2.0L engine (98-01). There is one for the engine temp gauge on the dash panel and the other one is for the ECU/ECM. You can tell the difference by the wiring connector, the sensor for the dash panel only has 1 wire, the one for he ECU has 2 wires.

Some of this is generic and gleaned from other forums. The other thing I found interesting about this DTC P0128 is that it is a estimated or calculated based on ECT, IAT, MAF, vehicle speed and some others I think. The DTC is run once every drive cycle. If it fails in 2 drive cycles then the MIL (CEL) is illuminated. If it passed in 3 drive cycles the MIL (CEL) is turned off. There also is a time component to the calculations. If the coolant temp doesn't come up or respond with a rate of change in a specified time period, that can also set this DTC.

What is bad about this DTC is that it will not let the fuel system go into closed loop mode. The purpose of this DTC is to detect a faulty thermostat or a poorly performing ECT sensor. Since a cold running engine effects the emissions output this had to be checked. Funny (as in odd) that Kia did not published anything on this DTC in there books or on the GDS site.

Since ambient air temp based on the IAT sensor seems to play a part in the ECU calculations for this DTC, I would have a look at that sensor also. A scan tool would be invaluable here to see live temp data on the engine and intake air. If there was trouble with the MAF sensor your engine would be running very poorly in my opinion. So even though it has a roll in the ECU calculations, I might tend to discount that sensor being bad. The IAT sensor (intake air temp) is located on the top of the air filter housing, in the general area of the engine compartment diagnostic connector.

The cable harness that leads to the thermostat housing area for those temp sensors is not well protected in my opinion. I would be looking and inspecting the wires very closely for any nicks or cuts in the insulation. If that plastic sheathing has come off that protect the wire bundle, go to the auto-parts store and buy some and replace it.

and another from www.kia forums.com
My girlfriend's 2001 Kia Sportage EX 4X4, at 40000 miles, has the check engine light coming on and when I read the diagnostic trouble code with the scan tool, the display says, 'P0128'.

According to the scan tool's manual, P0128 is a generic trouble code. The description is, "coolant thermostat (coolant temperature below thermostat regulating temperature)".

The dashboard temperature gauge indicates normal operating temperature. It is starting to cool off here in Pennsylvania yet she indicates heater output is fine on the cool mornings. Colder weather would provide a better test for the heater, and thus, the coolant temperature. I have erased P0128 a couple of times from her vehicle's on-board computer, yet it returns. Yesterday, on a highway ride, she turned her heater OFF (which, if anything, makes the engine run slightly warmer- less heat exchanger capacity with the heater off on most vehicles) and the check engine light came back on with the code P0128 stored on her car's PCM.


ok what do you guys think.

Hi gang, problem solved! The thermostat I got from KIA was a 180 deg. one, wrong one. engine wouldn't really get to spec. temp. changed to a 192 degree one, worked perfectly, no codes.
instead of the KIA one, I used a Beck/Arnly #1437074 192 degree. cost a big $7, instead of the $32 Kia charges.

there are 3 that will work;
Stat 45869 195 deg
Gates 33489S 190 deg
Beck/Arnly 1430734 192 deg

If you live an a warm climate, then use the 190 degree. I live in New York, not warm in the winter. You'll find the car warms up fast, and the heater will blast you out with heat. total cost for repair $7. not counting the new code reader I bought on eBay for $28, which works great also. Just make sure it in the Enhanced OBDII reader. I asked first and got honest answers.

04/27/2007 here's the latest. Still chasing his code, found out why.
been having the same problem. replaced the IAC sensor ($150), thermostat($35), and temperature sensor ($30). was good for maybe 3 days. This got rid of most of the codes but Pesky P0128 came back like your mother-in-laws fruit cake.

the problem was the rate of rise for the temperature. I got the thermostat from Kia 190 degree ($35), that didn't do it. I changed to another thermostat at 195 degrees, ok for a week. then one of the engineers where I work, said I went the wrong way, should have been a 180 degree thermostat, so the engine heats up faster,I said Eurika or something like that. I changed the thermostat, and Air temp sensor, it worked.

here are part numbers for 180 degree thermostats

Gates 334885 ($5)
Beck/Arnly 1430733
Stat 45868

I also changed the Air Charge Temperature sensor
Airtex 550154 ($35)


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Today, 07:58 AM #17 (permalink)
healixrider
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4

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ok, maybe this is premature, but I was wrong on the temperature, or I should say the engineer was wrong. I changed to the 180, lasted 2 days again. Got the AllData printout from my mechanic. here it is.

KMA has since received reports of DTC P0128. they found the production start dates change the thermostats, interchangability codes (ITC) and the ECM and thermostat "set" part numbers. Previous information in the 2001 parts catalog may have caused inadvertant use of incorrect parts.
ok here goes.
Determine if the vehicle falls in the production date range for THERMOSTAT MONITORING. Vehicles built before 09/18/00 (4DR) or built before 10/02/00(2DR) were NOT equipped with thermostat monitoring. If you have a Kia with a P0128 code built before those dates wrong parts may have been installed. Rather then chasing the other codes it will generate, first check the following.
2.Check installed thermostat and P/N. Vehicles built before 06/17/00 it should be equipped with thermostat P/N OK9FC15 171, KE5D3 15 171, or 0k01C 15 17Y. Vehicles built AFTER 06/17/00 should use P/N 0K013 15 171 or set P/N 0k01C 1517Y.
The earlier ones are distinguished by a secondary thermostatic valve on them, the newer ones have a little rivit floating in a hole on them, also the newer one is a 195 degree thermostat.
3. Check the Engine Control Module P/N on label on module. The P/N for the ECM without Thermostat Monitoring is: OK07A 18 1881 for both the 2dr and 4dr models. The P/N for ECM's with Thermostat Monitoring are: 39100 3X100 (4dr) and OK07A 18 1881A(2dr). use the right set with the right ECM. This is why the P0128 code pops up.

so you have to have the right thermostat with the right engine module. I also changed the intake air monitor sensor. Be sure to use a new gasket, as the gasket material also changed from paper to a rubber/paper type , add a little Permatex blue gel. seems to working now.

theres more;
The intake Air temperature rationality check (we all need one of those don't we) monitors the sensors circuit as well as informs the ECM weather the signal matches the expected value or range for the circumstances. For example if the IAT signal reads extremely high or low, the ECM would conclude that the signal is incorrect and would store a DTC PO111. The ECM can also determine the faulty sensor by comparing the IAT sensor signal to changes in coolant temperature over a certin period of time.

I only did this when I got the new information on Monday when I also found one of my coils was bad, and the valve cover gasket was leaking into the #2 cylinder coil. bit confusing, hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as of 04/27/2007 it seems to be all working like it's supposed to, no new codes but then I only went about 150 miles so far. this weekend I will take a long trip, let you know what happens.

Hi gang, problem solved! The thermostat I got from KIA was a 180 deg. one, wrong one. engine wouldn't really get to spec. temp. changed to a 192 degree one, worked perfectly, no codes.
instead of the KIA one, I used a Beck/Arnly #1437074 192 degree. cost a big $7, instead of the $32 Kia charges.

there are 3 that will work;
Stat 45869 195 deg
Gates 33489S 190 deg
Beck/Arnly 1430734 192 deg

If you live an a warm climate, then use the 190 degree. I live in New York, not warm in the winter. You'll find the car warms up fast, and the heater will blast you out with heat. total cost for repair $7. not counting the new code reader I bought on eBay for $28, which works great also. Just make sure it in the Enhanced OBDII reader. I asked first and got honest answers.

04/27/2007 here's the latest. Still chasing his code, found out why.
been having the same problem. replaced the IAC sensor ($150), thermostat($35), and temperature sensor ($30). was good for maybe 3 days. This got rid of most of the codes but Pesky P0128 came back like your mother-in-laws fruit cake.

the problem was the rate of rise for the temperature. I got the thermostat from Kia 190 degree ($35), that didn't do it. I changed to another thermostat at 195 degrees, ok for a week. then one of the engineers where I work, said I went the wrong way, should have been a 180 degree thermostat, so the engine heats up faster,I said Eurika or something like that. I changed the thermostat, and Air temp sensor, it worked.

here are part numbers for 180 degree thermostats

Gates 334885 ($5)
Beck/Arnly 1430733
Stat 45868

I also changed the Air Charge Temperature sensor
Airtex 550154 ($35)


healixrider
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Today, 07:58 AM #17 (permalink)
healixrider
Newbie


Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, maybe this is premature, but I was wrong on the temperature, or I should say the engineer was wrong. I changed to the 180, lasted 2 days again. Got the AllData printout from my mechanic. here it is.

KMA has since received reports of DTC P0128. they found the production start dates change the thermostats, interchangability codes (ITC) and the ECM and thermostat "set" part numbers. Previous information in the 2001 parts catalog may have caused inadvertant use of incorrect parts.
ok here goes.
Determine if the vehicle falls in the production date range for THERMOSTAT MONITORING. Vehicles built before 09/18/00 (4DR) or built before 10/02/00(2DR) were NOT equipped with thermostat monitoring. If you have a Kia with a P0128 code built before those dates wrong parts may have been installed. Rather then chasing the other codes it will generate, first check the following.
2.Check installed thermostat and P/N. Vehicles built before 06/17/00 it should be equipped with thermostat P/N OK9FC15 171, KE5D3 15 171, or 0k01C 15 17Y. Vehicles built AFTER 06/17/00 should use P/N 0K013 15 171 or set P/N 0k01C 1517Y.
The earlier ones are distinguished by a secondary thermostatic valve on them, the newer ones have a little rivit floating in a hole on them, also the newer one is a 195 degree thermostat.
3. Check the Engine Control Module P/N on label on module. The P/N for the ECM without Thermostat Monitoring is: OK07A 18 1881 for both the 2dr and 4dr models. The P/N for ECM's with Thermostat Monitoring are: 39100 3X100 (4dr) and OK07A 18 1881A(2dr). use the right set with the right ECM. This is why the P0128 code pops up.

so you have to have the right thermostat with the right engine module. I also changed the intake air monitor sensor. Be sure to use a new gasket, as the gasket material also changed from paper to a rubber/paper type , add a little Permatex blue gel. seems to working now.

theres more;
The intake Air temperature rationality check (we all need one of those don't we) monitors the sensors circuit as well as informs the ECM weather the signal matches the expected value or range for the circumstances. For example if the IAT signal reads extremely high or low, the ECM would conclude that the signal is incorrect and would store a DTC PO111. The ECM can also determine the faulty sensor by comparing the IAT sensor signal to changes in coolant temperature over a certin period of time.

I only did this when I got the new information on Monday when I also found one of my coils was bad, and the valve cover gasket was leaking into the #2 cylinder coil. bit confusing, hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as of 04/27/2007 it seems to be all working like it's supposed to, no new codes but then I only went about 150 miles so far. this weekend I will take a long trip, let you know what happens.
just checking in. 5/11/2007 went about 1500 miles so far, and on a long trip. everything working fine, no codes. I used the Stat 45869 195 deg thermostat, which seems to have done the trick. Next I'm looking for the bracket that holds the plastic cover over the engine on the 2001. I mistakenly threw away the right side, when we changed the engine over.