Need help with 1993 Camry V6

Hello fellow members,

As I am writing to you about my problem, I am stuck here in Lafayette, IN now. Here is my problem:

I was driving from Columbus, OH to Chicago last friday to visit some friends there. I checked my engine and fluid levels and all of them were perfect.

When I was stopping to fill up in Indiana, my car suddenly overheated quickly and so i stopped the engine, waited for about 20 mins and then started the car again. Temperature was normal and i continued driving to chicago with no problem. fluids were ok. no white smoke, no coolant in engine oil.

now while driving back to columbus, again the car overheated in Indiana and the temperature gauge would go up and back to normal, and then go up again. I decided to drop my car overnight at firestone for them to check out what's the problem because i dont want to risk driving it again to columbus. i have about 265 miles to go.

checked engine oil, coolant, transmission oils. all were ok.
my camry has about 126000 miles now and i replaced the radiator and flushed the coolant. water pump and timing belt was done at 77xxx miles and it is working ok. no weird sounds.

The head gasket was replaced by the previous owner. During all of this time, the car never smoked. The car was very normal.

Could it be the thermostat? that is the only part i can think of that needs to be replaced.

any ideas? thanks in advance.

How do you know you were overheating? If your only indication was the temperature gauge, then maybe you have a faulty engine temperature sender unit.

If it were your thermostat, you would not intermittently overheat, then act normally. They don't fix themselves.

Then again, maybe your car just doesn't like Hoosiers.... :)
jk

As I said, the only indication of overheat is the temperature gauge. i am not that good in car mechanics but i hope it is the unit part you mentioned JK.

but in the last 15 mins of driving, the needle was very close to the H. and it never went down to normal.

But why it is acting up while driving on the highway? and in Indiana!!!!? when i was in chicago, i was in stop and go traffic and it never gave me any problems.

Well i will have to wait for tomorrow then! Thanks JK

I'm assuming the second time it "overheated" when in Indiana, you again just saw the gauge rise with no smoke/steam/vapor.

Another indication of an overheat condition besides the gauge and /or white smoke/vapor/steam could be an overfiled coolant reservoir bottle. When the system gets too hot a valve in the radiator cap opens letting the expanded coolant flow into the bottle where it is stored until the system needs the coolant. It then flows back into the radiator as the coolant temp returns to normal.

Usually when there's a malfunction the reservoir bottle will overflow and thats when you see steam. Depending on the severity of the problem, it could only partially fill the bottle and not produce steam. You'd have to check it at the first indication on the gauge of an overheat before it had a chance to get sucked back in the radiator.

Something else you could do is stick a thermometer over one of the heater vents and monitor the heat temp. When the dash gauge starts swinging, watch for a temp increase at the vent.

Good chance Brian has nailed it but, if Firestone can't find the smoking gun, these are things to try.

Bad thermostat? If nothing is found, change it, they are cheap.

Overheating after extended highway driving is a classic sign of a blown head gasket. That is the time you are putting the most strain on the engine. It could be something else as others are suggesting, but I think you need to get a block test done to check for exhaust gases in your coolant. You can buy a kit from napa or carquest for $20 or so and do it yourself. I would not continue to drive it like this bringing it to the red line. If you do, you risk causing further damage such as warping the head, pitting the cylinder block, or cracking a cylinder sleeve.

If the gasket has failed, then you should get a leakdown test done to determine which cylinder is leaking so that you can replace that particular head only. As well, you need to determine WHY it failed. What usually happens at high mileage is that the water pump starts leaking or plastic ends of the radiators crack and leak, and you lose coolant without knowing until you notice the temp gauge. So with a blown gasket that you chose to repair, it is prudent to replace the whole cooling system including water pump, hoses, o-rings, thermostat and radiator. And if it is the gasket, by sure the machanic checks for head warpage and pitting in the cylinder block mating surface, because if those are present, another gasket failure is likely unless they are somehow addressed.

Sorry, don't mean to scare you, but you really need to get this checked properly.

dave mc

Thanks all for your ideas. I just came back to Columbus.

Firestone has performed a pressure test and it was leaking from the coolant cap on the engine block, forgot what it is called. But the mechanic told me to change it and hopefully it will fix the problem.


I went to Car Quest, bought the part and replaced it. Drove all the way back to Columbus, car never leaked or overheated.

But as you all said, I will take it to my mechanic and test everything out.

Thanks alot!

You already scared me! the first thing that came to my head was the head gasket. Well so far my camry didnt leak any coolant but if the head gasket is blown or bad, should i see coolant in the engine oil and vice versa? or white smoke coming out of the tailpipe?

What is this kit called that you can buy from napa? i'll buy one and test it myself.

Thanks



Overheating after extended highway driving is a classic sign of a blown head gasket. That is the time you are putting the most strain on the engine. It could be something else as others are suggesting, but I think you need to get a block test done to check for exhaust gases in your coolant. You can buy a kit from napa or carquest for $20 or so and do it yourself. I would not continue to drive it like this bringing it to the red line. If you do, you risk causing further damage such as warping the head, pitting the cylinder block, or cracking a cylinder sleeve.

If the gasket has failed, then you should get a leakdown test done to determine which cylinder is leaking so that you can replace that particular head only. As well, you need to determine WHY it failed. What usually happens at high mileage is that the water pump starts leaking or plastic ends of the radiators crack and leak, and you lose coolant without knowing until you notice the temp gauge. So with a blown gasket that you chose to repair, it is prudent to replace the whole cooling system including water pump, hoses, o-rings, thermostat and radiator. And if it is the gasket, by sure the machanic checks for head warpage and pitting in the cylinder block mating surface, because if those are present, another gasket failure is likely unless they are somehow addressed.

Sorry, don't mean to scare you, but you really need to get this checked properly.

dave mc

here is an example of the test kit sold online: combustion leak tester (http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ttibt-500.html)

http://www.toolweb.com/pics/TTIBT-500.jpg

here is an explanation of the test:http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/head_gasket_or_combustion_leak_test.htm

It could be that only the cap at the block was leaking and you were too low on fluid, but it may also be a symptom of a strained cooling system. Depending upon how big the leak is, you may or may not see the white smoke symptom or see oil in the coolant. I find the block test reasonably reliable and sensitive enough to detect small leaks before they become major ones. Cheap insurance. This kit is really handy too if you are buying a used car and want to check it quickly.

cheers

dave mc

Good hint Dave mc.

Another possibility is that your water pump is corroded so badly it doesn't push enough coolant through your engine to cool it realiably. Pump vanes are known to corrode away to the point your water pump is not doing its job. This would show up in a way similar to what you are experiencing.

Are the radiator fins clear of debri, bugs, anything that would restrict air flow?

You know I remembered something. In april 06, my camry was leaking coolant from some hose and that I used water for about a week before fixing it. After my mechanic replaced the hose and the radiator (looked old), i had the coolant flushed and filled.

I know adding water is bad because it can corrode engine parts.
Is it possible that I drove enough to let the water damage the pump? I remember driving the car about 3 times in that week.

Before all of this ordeal happened, I drove this Camry to Cleveland, 3 times, Cincinnati, Dayton, god knows how many times, and Minneapolis, twice.

Good hint Dave mc.

Another possibility is that your water pump is corroded so badly it doesn't push enough coolant through your engine to cool it realiably. Pump vanes are known to corrode away to the point your water pump is not doing its job. This would show up in a way similar to what you are experiencing.

I'll go to my mechanic first, he might have one of these kits there and he can test it on my car for free. If not, then I'll buy this kit.
Just trying to save some $!

here is an example of the test kit sold online: combustion leak tester (http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ttibt-500.html)

http://www.toolweb.com/pics/TTIBT-500.jpg

here is an explanation of the test:http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/head_gasket_or_combustion_leak_test.htm

It could be that only the cap at the block was leaking and you were too low on fluid, but it may also be a symptom of a strained cooling system. Depending upon how big the leak is, you may or may not see the white smoke symptom or see oil in the coolant. I find the block test reasonably reliable and sensitive enough to detect small leaks before they become major ones. Cheap insurance. This kit is really handy too if you are buying a used car and want to check it quickly.

cheers

dave mc

OP,
Chill out a bit !!!
Your problem is most likely the coolant temp switch. You didn't ruin your engine with water. It's water. We drink it. If you did add a lot of water, drain and refill with the correct mix, 50% coolant, 50% distilled water.

Yes, you would have to use really diluted coolant ever since you installed the water pump to corrode the fins. Not really likely at all, since you clarified you used good coolant.

There is nothing blocking the air flow.


Are the radiator fins clear of debri, bugs, anything that would restrict air flow?

Well today I took the car to my mechanic. He checked it out and drove the car on the highway. Before a half mile away from the shop, the car again overheated. I think he drove it for about 45 mins. We opened the hood the second he stopped the car and there was no steam/vapor/smoke just an overflowed coolant reservoir and there was a little bit of steam coming out of there. It was completely filled to the max.

Unfortunately the mechanic had to close his shop for the night and said he will check it tomorrow morning. I left the Camry there.

As you mentioned in your post RIP, any idea what could be the problem?

The mechanic says that the head gasket seems fine. I bought the leak test and will test the Camry once it arrives.


Another indication of an overheat condition besides the gauge and /or white smoke/vapor/steam could be an overfiled coolant reservoir bottle. When the system gets too hot a valve in the radiator cap opens letting the expanded coolant flow into the bottle where it is stored until the system needs the coolant. It then flows back into the radiator as the coolant temp returns to normal.

Usually when there's a malfunction the reservoir bottle will overflow and thats when you see steam. Depending on the severity of the problem, it could only partially fill the bottle and not produce steam. You'd have to check it at the first indication on the gauge of an overheat before it had a chance to get sucked back in the radiator.

Bad thermostat? If nothing is found, change it, they are cheap.

Forgot to mention that before half a mile away from the mechanic's shop. He stopped at a red light and car's temperature started to rise. Then when he accelerated the temp gauge went down. + the overflowed coolant reservoir.

Are you sure your radiator fan is functioning? Alot of the time, you mention overheating after stopping. Driving would push air through the radiator and cool the engine - it would overheat once you stopped if the fan wasn't functioning correctly.

Fan works perfectly with enough power steering fluid.

I checked the radiator today when my car was at the shop. Although I changed it last November, it seems old and crappy.

Well I still think it would be a good idea to go ahead with the block test anyways, but your most recent symptom there of having the temp go up while stopped and then down after accelerating is usually a symptom of insufficient cooling capacity due to a bad fan, radiator restriction, bad water pump or stuck thermostat, assuming the coolant level is still sufficient. When the temp goes up like this, that hydraulic fan should be screaming. If it isn't, then either the PS pump, the fan solenoid valve, or the hydraulic motor is not working properly, or the fan coolant temp sensor is bad. That sensor is mounted down near the thermostat housing. If it is, then check the airflow behind it. Maybe you have something stuck in fron tof it or the AC condenser? Did the temp only rise at the stop light, or did it go up while on the highway?

dave mc

Thanks for your reply.

Yes you are absolutely right. I'll do the block test regardless what happens.

I’ll have to check those parts when I go to my mechanic tomorrow. I’ll have to print this post and show it to him so he can know what to check for. I am assuming he knows what you are talking about!!!!

Temp only goes up while car is stopped. On highway, goes back to normal.

Today when we started the car, we checked under the hood and the fan was working. PS also works well. Coolant level was very sufficient.


Well I still think it would be a good idea to go ahead with the block test anyways, but your most recent symptom there of having the temp go up while stopped and then down after accelerating is usually a symptom of insufficient cooling capacity due to a bad fan, radiator restriction, bad water pump or stuck thermostat, assuming the coolant level is still sufficient. When the temp goes up like this, that hydraulic fan should be screaming. If it isn't, then either the PS pump, the fan solenoid valve, or the hydraulic motor is not working properly, or the fan coolant temp sensor is bad. That sensor is mounted down near the thermostat housing. If it is, then check the airflow behind it. Maybe you have something stuck in fron tof it or the AC condenser? Did the temp only rise at the stop light, or did it go up while on the highway?

dave mc

Just got the leak test kit today. I tested my car and the liquid didn't turn blue. I was so relieved! I usually double check my work and so I will test it tomorrow. You never know!

My mechanic is going to change the thermostat and check the water pump.
I am also going ahead to change the coolant temp and engine temp sensors/switches since they are cheap and easy to replace.

Well I changed the thermostat and I flushed the coolant also since the coolant was never flushed before.

So far so good, my Camry never overheated or showed any signs of overheat. I drove to and from Dayton, OH, it is about a 70 mile trip each way. It was perfect.

Thank you all for your time to help me out! You rock!

Have a nice day.

Good morning sbushnak (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=409084),

You also mentionned you're going ahead to change the coolant temp and engine temp sensors/switches.

Did you end up changing them other than the thermostat ?

Thanks.

Thank you sbushnak for your reply. So you didn't change them.
Do you know the most likely cause of ***white smoke*** (not a big cloud, not a small cloud, just medium size cloud, even when the car idle at normal temperature, needle in the middle) ?

How much if I order the head-gasket by myself ?
Does anyone know if I can change the *head gasket* myself ? (or I have to let the garage do it?). (I only have tools to change easy stuff like break-pads, sparks plugs).

Thank you sbushnak for your reply. So you didn't change them.
Do you know the most likely cause of ***white smoke*** (not a big cloud, not a small cloud, just medium size cloud, even when the car idle at normal temperature, needle in the middle) ?

How much if I order the head-gasket by myself ?
Does anyone know if I can change the *head gasket* myself ? (or I have to let the garage do it?). (I only have tools to change easy stuff like break-pads, sparks plugs).

Go smell the end of the tail pipe. If it is a sweat smell like coolant, then your head gasket is likely leaking. A puff of white smoke at startup can also be leaky valve seals. To really be sure on the head gasket, you should buy a block test kit and test for combustion gases in your coolant reservoir with the engine warmed up and running.

Changing a head gasket is a fairly challenging job. There are lots of parts to remove from the engine before you even get to the heads. For a V6, you've got 2 heads to deal with. I'm a fairly experienced home mechanic. It took me a full day just to remove one of the heads. You need a full set of sockets, a torque wrench, some method to remove the crankshaft pulley, etc, etc. You shouldn't need to pull the engine, so you don't need a crane. If you are going to attempt it, slot an entire weekend for it minimum, and read up on other documented gasket changes on this forum or the Toyota Nation forum extensively to prepare yourself. If you don't do everything right including cleaning the head and block surfaces thoroughly and applying the correct torque sequence to the head bolts, it will either not run right afterwards or will fail again shortly. So attention to detail is a must.

dave mc