Dead battery, then dead car??

My wife was driving our 2002 Camry 4cyl Auto today. She said it felt like it was “shaking” (possibly idle problems?) for part of the day but seemed to be running pretty normal

When she made her last stop of the day the car made a kind of “thud” when she stopped the car and turned it off. She thought she might have nudged something.

I went to go look at the car and tried to start it, the car attempted to turn over and than began to click as if it didn’t have enough battery power. I tried to jump the car but it kept producing the same clicking result. There was some build up on the battery cable so I tried to scrape that off….didn’t help any so I went and bought a new battery, put it in and the car started, but the motor was running very, very slow. I went and looked and it was idling at something like 200rpm. When I would step on the gas the engine would kind of bog (but not die) and then after getting passed 1000rpm it ran like normal. I drove the car around the parking lot and as long as I didn’t stop or drop below 1000 rpms the car ran as good as the day it was bought. If the car was gently stopped it would idle really, really rough, almost dying at 200-300rpm mark. If I stopped quickly it would die altogether.

I was able to get the car home (about 5 miles) by putting it in neutral and stepping on the gas to keep the car above 1000 rpm’s whenever I came up to a stop light.

The car sat for about 3 hours and I went out to mess with it. The first couple of times the car started up fine, but died almost instantly. After 3 or 4 starts the car would allow me to rev it up past 1000 rpm and it would run fine, but if it dropped below that it would die.

I read the “won’t run guide”: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=424744&page=3 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=424744&page=3)

And I’m planning on following those steps, but it seemed when the problem first started that it was electrical?? Now it seems like it’s not electrical at all. I cleaned the battery terminals to no avail. I tested the old battery and it’s showing 12.5v so it doesn’t seem like that was every the problem…but I’ve only heard that clicking (I believe the starter) when lack of power is the issue.

My question is, does it sound like electrical can pretty much be ruled out and I can move on to the “won’t run guide” above? Any other thoughts are appreciated!

Just to CYA, measure the voltage across the battery terminals with the engine running. Should read at least 13.5 vdc. That tells you the alternator is producing enough voltage to charge the battery and you'll have plenty of voltage to start the car next time.

Beyond that, I'd move to the "won't run guide" and I'd jump on the idle air control valve. It either needs cleaning or replacing. Are you getting a check engine light?

Just to CYA, measure the voltage across the battery terminals with the engine running. Should read at least 13.5 vdc. That tells you the alternator is producing enough voltage to charge the battery and you'll have plenty of voltage to start the car next time.

Beyond that, I'd move to the "won't run guide" and I'd jump on the idle air control valve. It either needs cleaning or replacing. Are you getting a check engine light?

Thanks for the info....forgot to mention I did test the alternator and all is good there.

No check engine light....so I'll go after the idle air control valve tommorrow.

One other question: In the "won't run guide" it mentions what I believe are different engine models: " 3s-fe's, 5s-fe's, and 1mz-fe's" are these generation specific (ie. mine is a 5th gen so it's a 1mz-fe)? Or am I way off on what that is?

Really appreciate the help!!

Alternator has nothing to do with rough idle.

I would suspect your IAC valve. Check it out.

ProMan - no, an alternator will not create a rough idle. However, because he changed the battery and now the car starts, you have to ask how did the battery get weak. What will produce a weak battery? Old age, shorted cell, drain, or weak charge. This quick CYA alternator check was to elliminate a common cause of battery failures. Making sure the alternator is good now will elliminate confusion later. Had he not checked the alternator now, and if it was not producing a sufficient charge, his hard or no starting issue would rear it's ugly head again and probably in the middle of his troubleshooting his rough idle issue. Rdiggidy was ahead of the curve. Cheers.

Is this what I'm looking for (idle air control):



http://www.theyetters.com/hosting_np/iac.jpg

Cause I'm not finding it? Isn't it in the throttle body area? Help!

Is this the throttle position sensor?

http://www.theyetters.com/hosting_np/this_it.gif



This isn't what I'm looking for is it, the intake air flow meter?


http://www.theyetters.com/hosting_np/2.gif

I went and got a Haynes manual and now know that the arrow in picture #1 is to the TPS and the arrow in picture two is to the Mass Air Flow Sensor. The manual talks about the IAC, but doesn't show where it is.

Anybody, Help!

I would help you but, the links for my source for manuals, "Factory Service Manuals", at the top of the forum, appear to be dead. It should be near the throttle plate on the throttle body. ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE THE ANSWER!

I would help you but, the links for my source for manuals, "Factory Service Manuals", at the top of the forum, appear to be dead. It should be near the throttle plate on the throttle body. ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE THE ANSWER!

Appreciate your response.

I tried the "factory service manuals" link...the pictures I do have are from one of the manuals from your links, but it doesn't show.

I've got the throttle body off...so I thought it would be evident (I'm obviously not Mr. Mechanic), but I just don't see it.

RIP,
Try this one... http://www.camrymanuals.com/

OP,
I looked at the same manual. Doesn't seem like an IAC is being used now.
You might try cleaning the throttle bore and plate with carb cleaner and a toothbrush then disconnecting the battery for a few minutes to allow the comp to reset to default then try again. I had the same problem on my Crapillac and that was the cure.
FWIW
YMMV

OP,
I looked at the same manual. Doesn't seem like an IAC is being used now.


If this is true when did the camry do away with the IAC Valve? :dunno:

Was it for both the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engine?:dunno:

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY

DFB - you are a King! Thanks.

JC - Don't know when but, I'd put it in the "good move" column. They were creating many headaches. I just wonder what controls idle now and will it be any better? Hope it's in the manual.

If this is true when did the camry did away with the IAC Valve? :dunno:

Was it for both the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engine?:dunno:

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY


Don't know. I, like the OP, couldn't find it on any parts diagram, so hence the term "doesn't seem."

OP,
I looked at the same manual. Doesn't seem like an IAC is being used now.
You might try cleaning the throttle bore and plate with carb cleaner and a toothbrush then disconnecting the battery for a few minutes to allow the comp to reset to default then try again. I had the same problem on my Crapillac and that was the cure.
FWIW
YMMV

I feel a little better knowing that it appears not to have one...I was getting very frustrated trying to figure out where it could possibly be.

The throttle body has a thin film of "grease" on the inside (bore and engine side of plate), but doesn't have what I'm use to seeing as a grainy build up. Overall it seems pretty clean, but I'll give cleaning and a comp reset a try.

Thanks for all the help, I've been feeling like this--->:banghead: