F-ing Cobras

Alright this thread is kinda dumb because it is the kind everyone hates to answer, but w/e I've been here awhile so deal.

For some reason 2 cobras raced me in one day. I know they're f-ing fast but I'm still pissed, It was a wake up call to get back into tuning my crx.

My question is: in your opinion, what is the best way to go, with what I have to work with?

I want to get more power (maybe up to 275ish hp), but pref no forced induction or NO2 (and that knocks a lot out I know). I have a B16A2, basic bolt on's: DC 4-1 header, CAI, tanabe catback. Cluthcmasters stage3, quaife diff. Its probably about 185hp, low 14 qtm if I'm lucky. Its also got tokico illumina, custom skunk2 springs (dont hate), and slipstreams with neogen.

My guess is save up for a sick frankenstein with a B16head, as I wanted to do for awhile.

Oh yeah, I'm poor, going to college just barely. So this is pretty hopeless.

Thoughts?

Get them to break theyre rear axles lol...My suitemate (guy in the room attached to mine) has busted his twice since ive been in colllege (all of 3 months:P)

With that kind of budget thats about all you could hope for right now :(

What I find funny is he thinks my car is the shit because I do my own work lol.

I'd take a Cobra in a heartbeat. Possible midlife crisis car...

If you're ruling out forced induction, then kiss the 275hp goal good bye (especially with a B16a). And you're probably making around 165-170hp at the crank right now, not 185hp. Even with an LS/vtec, you're probably only looking at around 200whp. But you do drive a light ass crx, so you probably don't need as much power as you'd think.

Sigh.. I figured this much. Well I guess I'll just remain crappy and slow, and hopefully make enough in a few years to do a built LS/vtec that MIGHT be more than 200hp...... so depressing. Thanks for the inputs

get some cams and possibly a light weight flywheel.

cobras 2003 an up arent slow anymore :-)...but I still have fun with them at the track he in cali all the time...I just tell them lets get on the freeway after we are done 1/4 racing and let the ls tranny go :-)

so what yr cobras are we talking about? anything pre (Terminator) 03-04 shouldnt be too difficult to hang with..200hp should have u in the 13's..most 03-04 cobras with just a few mods are around 450+ hp with just exhaust upgrades. i have toyed with these cobras b4 and they arent no joke. once ur almost satisfied that u can hang with the cobras in the neighborhood..make sure u go searching for this guy =) http://youtube.com/watch?v=2lQX3cOAbes

Yeah..suitemate has an 03-04..im not even gonna mess with that damn thing.. And the sad part is, he got it for like 16 grand. Damn thing has 13" wide tires and still cant keep em planted...also the reason he blowing out the rear axles lol.

get some cams and possibly a light weight flywheel.

His B16 still won't touch anything.

His B16 still won't touch anything.

why not? a stock cobra 96-99 ish are good for mabey a 14.0 with 0 reaction time in the 1/4 mile. my stock b16a is good for a 14.8 sec run.

Because you can only go so aggressive with the cams before you need to raise your compression, to be able to make more power.

Why are you against forced induction - it's the only advantage we have over the "larger" motors we race against. I'm shooting for close to 300hp in my d16a6 for under $3k - what's wrong with that??

Why are you against forced induction - it's the only advantage we have over the "larger" motors we race against. I'm shooting for close to 300hp in my d16a6 for under $3k - what's wrong with that??

Yeah the whole NA vs forced induct is an in-depth argument, but I think it just boils down to driver taste, not really which is better (in an absolute sense). I've always been facinated with high-reving motors/large powerbands, so I'd rather make the power with all motor. Additionally turbo set-ups tend to have a harder time being quick through the corners (which you probably won't notice in a street situation, but whatever) and I'm a big grand touring junkie so that's important to me.

I like how bambam89lx put it:

turbo cars spin tires easier, because of the instant surge of power. Generally, all motor cars don't spin tires at all.
turbo cars have to "climb" to their power level...it isn't instant power, whereas an allmotor setup is.

The higher your peak power is, the better. Usually, all motor setups are built to where there peak power is in the 9-10k range. This is an advantage, because the faster the motor spins, the faster the tires spin, and therefore, faster the car accelerates and moves. Turbo cars usually peak in power, earlier in the power band, and then have a sudden drop off, which is terrible for drag racing. It's not about how much peak power you make at all...it's about where that peak power is in the power band. It's more about how fast you can get the car to accelerate. That is the MAIN goal. You don't need as much power at higher rpms because even if you aren't making alot of power up there, you are still accelerating faster than a car that is making higher peak power 3k rpms sooner (allmotor vs. turbo). Think about it, he may have more power, but your are still spinning your tires 3000 more times than his, every minute(if he shifts at 7k and you shift at 10k)...so you will travel further than him, which means you will accelerate faster.
Get it?
If you could build a turbo honda motor that would make peak power at 9500 rpms, had a steady climb up to that power level, and had a relatively flat torque curve, you'd be all set. But, it's near impossible, because to make power that high, requires an incredibly large turbo, which lends to low end power (turbo lag), tire slipping, bad torque curves, etc...which lead to shitty quarter mile times. That is the whole reason it takes alot more power with a turbo setup to run the same times as an allmotor setup, to negate the whole lag, spinning, torque curve problem.

This is essentially the only reason we can even build cars to keep up with v8's. They usually make incredible torque and HP at 3-4k rpms and just fall off. If they could build a v8 motor that could peak power at 8-9k, it would be over for us import enthusiasts. But, that will never happen without ALOT of money. The v8 design puts alot of stress on the lower end, which prevents them from ever spinning it that high. That is the sole advantage of inline motors. That's why inline motors are king, motors like the skyline, supra. And, also why rotaries are so good for racing...they don't need to make alot of power, because they can rev so god daym high.

That guy contradicted himself in the first two sentences. Turbo is really the only way youre going to get decent power without spending a fortune for N/A. With a decent sized turbo, the lag wont be so bad.

Actually I don't think he contradicted himself at all. The first sentence is about acceleration, not launching. Where with a NA car the power is always right there. With a turbo it's not there until the turbo spools. But when it does spool, there is an "instant" surge of power. Unless you have a big turbo, spooling from 1 psi to full boost could be considered "instantaneous" (obviously not a literal term).

At least that's how I interpret it.

I Agree but what about cars that are factory turboed. And what about high compression NA motors. there are too many variables to just generally say turbo is not a good idea when it is probably the best value for a small displacement motor.

Yeah thats why I'm saying there is no 'better' option in an absolute sense. It all comes down to preference (and somewhat application). Sure if I just went turbo I'd proabaly have a decent set-up with a low psi for relatively cheap, but I prefer NA.

u wanna beat some slobras in your area..i think you got a decent start with what you got but its not gonna be cheap to get you into some 12-13 sec qt's but your really limited cash wise..and you dont wanna take any route involving forced induction nitrous ect..dunno what to tell ya brotha =)

I agree that turbo isn't as efficient in some racing situations like corning and things as NA. I problem that I hate about NA is the amount of money it takes to get a good NA setup. And honestly if you build your motor right you can get a turbo motor that would be good with corner racing - you just need a smaller turbo so you don't lag as much and the turbo spools faster between shifts. As far as drag racing goes, when was that last time you saw a 9sec honda that was NA - you just don't seen them - ya the turbo may not have as much traction off the bat, that is the problem larger amounts of power. The problem you are going to run into with NA is there are limits - 275hp on a na motor is quite a job and probably a few thousand bucks easy and that's all you can do. With turbo, your limits are much much higher 500-600hp isn't unfeasable at all. I've seen 450hp sohc daily drivers. They have have a hard time starting in first off the line, but just wait till third gear. But you are right, it is in the drivers view of what he wants. I just think you are limiting yourself with NA - there is only so much air a motor can suck in per stroke, no matter how smooth the air path is. If your only goal is to beat a cobra, I think you are going to need a little more than just a built NA motor. What happens when you beat a cobra then find something faster and your motor is at it's peak?? What then?

Haha... ^^that is so true. Just to add that smaller turbos spool fast. I drive a factory turboed vw and full boost comes at 3k rpms and it doesn't take long to get to that point even with relatively longer gears in a 5 speed auto because of the small amount of displacement. Granted, it's no monster in power. But you can take a high compression small displacement motor and add a small turbo to it and make even more power and it may be more streetable based on how good of a tune it has. This way you'd get the best of both worlds, low end grunt from the turbo and high end performance from high cr. Also, consider that the Cobra engine is more than twice the size of yours and supercharged from the factory. Modded cobras are rediculously fast. With a pulley, exhaust and tune a cobra can easily make over 400rwhp.

thats only the 03-04 cobras....not talking about the one coming out with over 500hp :-)

Yeah, I only like the 03-04... real fuckin' mean coupe right there.

If your budget is low, just keep reducing weight. More power=higher fuel consumption & more breakages. Can you afford that scenario? You need to account for it.
Otherwise, crack open the piggy bank. My order

1. Legal semi-slicks for better traction off the line.
2. B20 bottom end + inj/ECU/exhaust to suit the new delivery.
3. Upgrade brakes, or at least stainless lines + new pads/fluid.
4. Play with gear ratios so 1-4 are lower, but still drop revs just below peak torque on upshifts. I think you're currently around 3300rpm in 5th gear at 60mph. For lazy performance (use that new B20 torque) get a really long 5th ratio from a compatible gearset.

If you do this, you might just break-even on gas :wink:

I agree with these guys, the 03+ cobras are a tall order to go up against. I think you will be fighting an uphill battle (and expensive) without some kind of forced induction.