alternator problems?

I've been having an odd ongoing problem with my Caprice Classic LS (1994 model)... Here's a list of things that it has wrong:

1. Engine hesitates at low RPM's (like when trying to accelerate)
2. There's a very LOUD sound that's really indescribable, but sounds like air in a water hose, but it's not (it's a mechanical sound)
3. There is a very loud sqeaky sound (related to number 2?)

I'm more wondering if all three are related to each other... for number three, it seems that it's coming from the alternator.. i checked the alternator with the belt disconnected from it, and there's no play in it, but there is, what appears to be, metal shavings inside the wheel..

just this morning, i couldn't start the car.. i would try, but all i would hear is a click.. the volt meter on the dash showed that i had enough charge.. the radio came on (which has a 240watt amp attached), and worked perfectly.. i even turned that off, and no go, car wouldn't start.. litterally 20 tries later, and it started, without hesitation (as if it had more than enough power to start)...

however, i noticed when im at a red light, ready to take a left, everytime the left blinker blinks, the volt meter bounces a small bit (related to bad alternator?)..

i was given this car knowing it had problems, but i was kinda hoping i could fix it up.. im going to be taking some exams in school tomorrow morning, and i am hoping it starts (i have no other car)..

Welcome Aboard!

Where, exactly, are you seeing metal shavings? Wheel? If you remove the belt and spin the alternator by hand, is there any unusual noise?

The problem with the no-start is possibly related to a connection or failing contacts in the starter solenoid. Obviously, the battery had adequate capacity to crank and run the engine, which would indicate that the alternator is at least charging. The voltmeter responding to the turn signal may also be related to a connection. You can monitor the meter while you add other loads, such as headlights and brake lights, or hazard flashers. If the voltmeter responds similarly and the change is less than 0.2V, it shouldn't be a problem. You may need to check this at the battery directly with a handheld voltmeter.

Welcome Aboard!

Where, exactly, are you seeing metal shavings? Wheel? If you remove the belt and spin the alternator by hand, is there any unusual noise?

The problem with the no-start is possibly related to a connection or failing contacts in the starter solenoid. Obviously, the battery had adequate capacity to crank and run the engine, which would indicate that the alternator is at least charging. The voltmeter responding to the turn signal may also be related to a connection. You can monitor the meter while you add other loads, such as headlights and brake lights, or hazard flashers. If the voltmeter responds similarly and the change is less than 0.2V, it shouldn't be a problem. You may need to check this at the battery directly with a handheld voltmeter.
thanks.. ;)

the metal shavings is inside the wheel (the thing on the alternator that the belt goes around), near the bolt...

i tried spinning the alternator by hand and heard no weird sounds, but it felt like it didn't spin to freely (is it supposed too?).

for the battery itself, here's the statistics (from my multimeter):
Car off: 12.6v
Car on: 13.4v

I noticed my car has a 105 amp alternator.. i feel this is quite low, considering my car has an audio amplifier in the trunk (and neon lights on the bottom of the car----that came with it when i bought it, lol)

also, my car does have the Check Engine light on (well, the symbol of an old engine), and i don't have a OBD reader (local shops charge an arm and a leg here because it's OBD I and not OBD II, and i don't have the money to afford it)

Metal in the belt sheave is not necessarily a problem with the alternator itself. With the belt removed, there should be some light drag from the brushes and from the bearing seals, but it should spin easily by hand with almost no noise.

13.4 V is a little low while charging. Is that with the engine running and no accessories on (no lights, radio, heater, wipers, etc.)?

Metal in the belt sheave is not necessarily a problem with the alternator itself. With the belt removed, there should be some light drag from the brushes and from the bearing seals, but it should spin easily by hand with almost no noise.

13.4 V is a little low while charging. Is that with the engine running and no accessories on (no lights, radio, heater, wipers, etc.)?
yes, 13.4v is with nothing on...

i wonder if this can be related somehow...

when my gas tank was half empty, the car ran beautiful, no hesitation at all (though it did have the screeching sound..)

then, when i filled up the gas (had a long trip), the car immediately starts hesitating...

hope this adds to a possibility on what the problem is..

Can't you jump a gm obd1 port with a paperclip?

Can't you jump a gm obd1 port with a paperclip?
why would i want to do that? (i don't know anything about the OBD ports)

why would i want to do that? (i don't know anything about the OBD ports)

On the typical ALDL connector (that's shorthand for Assembly Line Diagnostic Link), jumping pins A and B, with the key on but the engine not started, will cause the check engine/service engine soon (malfunction indicator lamp or MIL) to flash in a series of flashes - for example, flash-pause-flash-flash reads as Code 12, flash-flash-flash-pause-flash-flash-flash-flash reads as 34 etc. Yours being a '94, it is conceivable that you have a 'hybrid' system, an OBD or OBD1 computer system but with an OBDII-style diagnostic port in place of the OBD ALDL - in which case I don't know if A and B are still the pins, the resident expert Blue Bowtie should chime in here soon, he should know. I do know that some GM cars received OBDII as early as 1994, if so it will say so on a sticker under the hood (the VECI or Vehicle Emission Control Information decal).

Here's what you are looking at:

A) OBD-1 or ALDL connector:

http://www.silicon212.org/aldl_connector.gif

B) OBD II connector:

http://www.silicon212.org/obdII_connector_423x317.jpg

C) VECI showing OBD II:

http://www.silicon212.org/emissiondecalcloseup_360x273.jpg

NOTE that if you have B instead of A, that doesn't necessarily mean you have OBD II! Only on a 1996 vehicle is this guaranteed OBD II, as by law all 1996 and newer vehicles sold in the US must have OBD II.

i can't go out to the drive way right now (too late at night), but tomorrow i'll take a picture of the diagnostic port if that helps.. i know the engine in it is custom, cause it says "SS" on the top of it on a red plate, which would contradict the "LS" in my model...

UPDATE: Here's a picture of the port.. The sticker under the hood didn't say if it was OBD II or not, and to be honest, it looks like OBD I or ALDL..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/port.jpg

EDIT: I did the paperclip thing, and all that happened was the fan in the engine came on, and the "CHANGE OIL" light lit up.. But the check engine light did not flash, I waited there for it to flash, for a while...

The '94 should have the 12-pin ALDL (mine does) with only four contacts (A, B, M, & H). However, because it is a hybrid (OBD 1½) system, while jumpering the 'A' and 'B' terminals of the ALDL will invoke Field Service Mode, it will not will not flash the "Check Engine" lamp to display error codes. You would need a scanner capable of reading the 8192b data stream to get the codes. That would be a GM Tech II, SnapOn MT2500, or MATCO Determinator.

http://72.19.213.157/files/MT2500Connections.jpg

With this hybrid system, however, stored error codes can be erased if the ECM/PCM power is disconnected for a sufficient length of time to deplete power for the VRAM. Normally, that can be done by removing fuses, but since your electrical system is suspect, you probably should remove the negative battery cable, then the positive battery cable. Once the cables are removed, turn on the headlight switch (yes, I know they won't turn on, but the load will deplete power) and turn the ignition switch to the RUN position.

Once the cables are removed, inspect the terminals on the battery. Inspect the cable ends for damage or corrosion. You may have to unscrew the attachment bolts from the cable terminals, then slide the rubber insulating boots off the ends of the battery cable ring terminals to get a really good look. Clean up or repair any damage or corrosion.

Remember to turn off the ignition switch and headlight switch before reconnecting the battery cables.

that itself shouldn't be the problem.. not to long ago, my battery died, and i had no battery in the car for a week.. so i would imagine all is erased..

but what im wondering, is, did an SS engine ever come standard in a Caprice Classic LS? I'm curious to know, if the PROM in the computer is incorrect for my engine, as I've been told my car has had the computer replaced multiple times, because they kept shorting out..

Actually, there is no "SS" engine, per se. The LT1 used in the Impala SS has no identification indicating anything like that. My guess is that someone installed an aftermarket cover or plate with that logo or script. This is what the '94 Impala SS engine compartment looks like in stock form:

http://72.19.213.157/files/94EngineBay.jpg

At least, mine does, and it is one of the original 6,330 that were built, not cloned.

If the battery has been completely dead recently (so that ALL power was gone), any codes now stored were probably generated since it was replaced or recharged. If the battery maintained as little as 5V, however, the VRAM may not have been erased. Power needs to be removed completely for a length of time. Sometimes a couple minutes, sometimes as much as a half hour.

Back to the problem at hand, error codes or not, the ECM/PCM should not cause the engine to fail to crank unless the VATS/PassKey system is not detecting the proper resistance pellet in the key. One frequently overlooked but potentially important thing is the information provided the operator when the ignition is turned on and all systems become active. When the ignition key is first inserted and turned from the lock to the RUN position (without starting the engine) several things should occur: The "Check Engine" lamp should turn on for about ¼ second, turn off for about ¼ second, then turn back on and remain on until the ignition is turned off or the engine is started. The ABS warning lamp should turn on and remain on for 3-5 seconds while the EBCM performs a basic I/O check of its sensors, then turn off and remain off; The “SIR” or “Air Bag” lamp should turn on for about one second to indicate power, then turn off and flash back on for ½ second for each of the external sensors and loads the SIR module checks. The lamp should flash six times on a ‘94 B-Body to check both air bags and all sensors. Upon testing all sensors and loads successfully, the lamps should turn off and remain off; The Pass Key” lamp should turn on and remain on for five seconds while the VATS performs a basic test and verifies the resistance of the key inserted. It should then turn off and remain off. If it flashes, that indicates a problem with either the VATS module or the key resistor circuit. Both the “Low Fuel” and “Low Washer” lamps should turn on for about three seconds, then turn off and remain off unless the fuel tank or washer reservoir are low. The seat belt warning should turn on unless the belt is buckled to the receiver. The “Brake” warning lamp should turn on only if the park brake is applied. The “Check Gages” lamp should turn on and remain on until the engine is started or ignition is turned off. The speedometer/odometer digital display should light all digit segments in a test mode for about three seconds, then revert to the normal speed and milage displays.

You may want to save that for future reference.

Paying attention to the “Pass Key” lamp, you should be able to determine if the system is operating or not. If it is not, the lamp should flash and you likely will not be able to start the engine (as you describe).

My engine doesn't have the cover like yours does.. It is bare at the top, and says "SS" written in silver, on a red metal plate that is rivited to the engine...

All the lamps on the dash work like you say they should, except the Check Engine light.. that one just stays on ;) but does remain off for a small bit when the engine starts...

This is as best of a picture of the engine i have right now, a thumbnail... (the full size image doesn't load)..

http://blackevilweredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/scraps/ (http://tn1-3.deviantart.com/fs8/150/i/2005/334/5/e/My_Car_4_by_blackevilweredragon.jpg)

(it's My Car 4)

EDIT: For the PASS Key lamp, well, heh, here's a small description on that one.. The car has an alarm system that was installed, but that malfunctioned.. Non of the local stores would remove it, because they didn't know how too.. So, what they ended up doing, was pulling the fuse to it, so it's essentially disabled.. However, the car can NOT be started via the key.. I still HAVE to put the key in, and put it on "On", but there's now another button that starts the car, one that is wired directly to the starter, and battery. that never has failed until recently though...

The intake resonators (both the "home plate" and "first base") have been removed, replaced with a sewer pipe duct, and someone installed an aftermarket throttle body top cover. That is a common "modification" on B-Body cars. It didn't come from the factory like that. None of that should affect the charging system.


For the PASS Key lamp, well, heh, here's a small description on that one.. The car has an alarm system that was installed, but that malfunctioned.. Non of the local stores would remove it, because they didn't know how too.. So, what they ended up doing, was pulling the fuse to it, so it's essentially disabled.. However, the car can NOT be started via the key.. I still HAVE to put the key in, and put it on "On", but there's now another button that starts the car, one that is wired directly to the starter, and battery. that never has failed until recently though...

As for the remote start nightmare, that is a potential problem, as most of them are. It would be best to get a factory wiring diagram and restore the system to its original state. I can only imagine the mess, having fought with other such systems in the past. I wouldn't give a wooden nickel for any of them.

Unfortunately, the hardware itself is usually reasonably good, but the hack-job installations cause most of the problems. Solder is something of a complete mystery to those people, and "insulation" and "wire loom" means a roll of Chinese plastic tape and zip ties. I could "fix" a lot of those installers' problems with a 20" zip tie cinched up in the appropriate places, but those installers get paid to complete installation jobs quickly, not necessarily right.

yea, i was all set and ready just now to rewire it, then decided "heck no!", once i got under the dash.. it's a total mess, all the wires are "tight", there's like no way to move any of them..

i decided to take a look at the radio itself, and i think there's a potential problem there, which "might" be a cause for the electrical issue on the car.. the car has an audio amplifier installed, so, leaving the radio on (to diagnose it), i unplugged it's "Line Out" speakers, and well what do you know, the speakers are still ON, but not as bassy.. turns out, whoever messed with this thing, did a hack job on it.. they tied the amp and the radio amp together, and tied the speaker ground to the electrical ground, which the radio itself says NOT to do.. (it's a JVC radio, which it's CD player doesn't even work)..

EDIT: Here's big pictures I just took of the engine.. I'm confused about the alternator.. Is that the right one for my car? I don't know, but it looks like the low-amperage one, where my service manual says 94 and above has high-amperage..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/car/1.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/car/2.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/car/3.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/car/4.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/car/5.jpg

UPDATE: While I was in school, someone who has the same car as me, said that the diagnostic mode will NOT produce a Check Engine light, but will produce CLICKING sounds..

I tried again, and this time listened (i had my iPod on when i tried this morning), and yes, it DID make clicking sounds.. It gave a rapid click (or a dash), and two short clicks (dot-dot).. i'd imagine that's error code 12.. But that's all it gave, was a 12.. nothing else..

ok, let's see if THIS is the alternator now..

I tried staring the car this morning, and the engine sound aweful, with a VERY high pitch screeching sound.. The cars volt meter went EXTREMELY low, and the radio almost shut off...

Then, I smelt burning rubber, so I immediately turned off the engine.. I pop open the hood, and find the belt STUCK to the alternator.. literally stuck to it.. I tried pulling the belt off the engine, but it's permanently fused to the damned thing...

I'm guessing either the alternator ceased up, or something other very weird happened... But it aint coming off..

Could the alternator have done that? I can still spin it though (though with the belt stuck)