2000 PA Presidential

:banghead: I would like to know what the differences are between a 2000 PA and a 2000 PA Presidential. I am looking to buy a presidential, and can't find much info online that specifies what options it has, that a standard PA does not have. It has the imitaion convertible roof, which I think looks horrible. I am hoping for ride control, or traction control, and of course, I hope it has all the basic functions my 1997 has.

Please let me know what the differences are. Upon closer look, I see this presidential has no supercharger, so, it's not based on the Ultra.

Thanks...

Sam B.
Tonawanda, New York....

Good question.

The Presidential Edition is supposed to be fully loaded but you can get just about the same options without that package. Not only do you get the ugly imitation ragtop but these emblems on the c-pillar. :rolleyes: This is from a 1999 Regal LS (non-supercharged) Presidential. Also, the leather seats are the pillow type.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/regal_pres.jpg

Interesting that some find the rag top ugly.
I like mine, for now. It quietens down the ride.
Unfortunately, it's a very porus canvas and birds seem to go out of their way to vote.
Luckily I dont have huckleberry bushes nearby.

I have noted, there seems to be a side effect of road rage attitude directed my way. I think the looks of the car falsely derives assumptions on the driver in the car. Similar to the clothes a person wears, perhaps signifies their attitude.

I just never really liked imitation anything, so I can't conceive the idea of imitation convertible top. I can deal with it better if the car really was a convertible, but, even real convertibles look like they have an ugly roof, IMO. I am not a fan of convertible cars, but, I like the newer cars that have a nice looking hardtop convertible roof. I'm sure I'll learn to live with it though.

As for the presidential emblem, I think that's like wearing a batman cape to work. I don't understand what we are supposed to like about that silly US Government styled logo. Must be a rich guy thing.

I am willing to admit, I love luxury cars, and quality things, but I don't aim to send out any messages. This is most likely the reason I'm a bit nit-picky about the silly roof and logo. From the driver's seat, I won't see either.


I am more interested in knowing if the presidential has things like the ride control, or stability control, or any other comfort / handling / performance / safety items that are perks that come with the presidential package.

Which of your cars has the ragtop? Do you have pictures? How is the ragtop's material in snow? I have a feeling I won't like this stuff, although, you did mention it quiets to ride on the inside, and that's worth something to me.

Interesting that some find the rag top ugly.
I like mine, for now. It quietens down the ride.
Unfortunately, it's a very porus canvas and birds seem to go out of their way to vote.
Luckily I dont have huckleberry bushes nearby.

I have noted, there seems to be a side effect of road rage attitude directed my way. I think the looks of the car falsely derives assumptions on the driver in the car. Similar to the clothes a person wears, perhaps signifies their attitude.

HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230088111252&rd=1,1) .. is my car... I'm not sure if presideantials have anything more but the emblems and such. All the extras seem to be there. Mine is an Ultra. I dont like the emblems either.. I suppose their popularity changes with the times.

That's a very nice PA for sure. The one I'm looking into has a black roof. Yours isn't so bad looking with the lighter color.



HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230088111252&rd=1,1) .. is my car... I'm not sure if presideantials have anything more but the emblems and such. All the extras seem to be there. Mine is an Ultra. I dont like the emblems either.. I suppose their popularity changes with the times.

Hi Sam - Small world, I'm in North Tonawanda.

Hi Mickey. Very small world, indeed. I assume you have a Park Ave, since you are posting here. What year, etc. is your car. Maybe we'll have to meet for a Tim Horton's coffee some day and talk about how great our cars are.

My current car is a 97 PA which has 127,000 miles, and a few electrical intermittent problems. I haven't posted on the forums about these problems because I'm planning to sell the car and buy one with less miles. The one I want to buy is a 2000, which has 75,000 miles.

Anyways, nice to see a local guy on the forums.

Hi Sam - Small world, I'm in North Tonawanda.

I am still hoping to entertain more ideas about the so-called perks of the Presidential trimline on these Buicks.

Does anyone know of any other sources I might be able to research for this type of info? I seem to get nowhere doing basic searches online, pertaining to the word presidential.

Thanks again to everyone who has replied already. Any and all info is helpful, and very much appreciated.

I'd also like to ask the opinions of other PA owners, about the car I am going to buy.


The basic rundown is :

2000 PA Presidential
75,000 miles
Being sold to settle an estate.
Car was kept maintained by the dealer where it was purchased. I guess the dealer was a golf buddy to the owner of the car.
The seller claims the car is about as nice as a 7 yr old car can be.
The only known issue at this time is an intermittent problem with the fuel gage, which I assume is related to the sensor in the gas tank.
The only pics I have available are not the highest image quality, but the car looks great in the pics. The seller has assured me that the car is free from rust, dents or scratches.
I almost forgot.. We have agreed to 6100 dollars in person, and a 200 dollar deposit which is to have them hold it for me, of course.. so, 6300 total..


Thanks again...
Sam B
Tonawanda, New York

The price is about 3k less than bluebook, a steal...
Get it, if only to resell it.
You may be suprised with a motor on an electric seat that doesnt work. Common problem.
Not sure if that area uses much salt on the roads.
It should get 24mpg on the highway.

Get it.. Get it Get it.

I get roughly 30mpg or sometimes more, with my current 97 PA. The 2000 I am buying has no supercharger, and should yield similar milage, I think. or, at least, I hope.

I was actually in the market for an Ultra, but was willing to go NA if the car was nice. This presidential seems like a nice car, but no SC, and no sunroof, which is another item I wanted. I managed to see 2 regals today, with black imitation convertible top, and man, I don't like the looks.

If I get the car, and continue to let the ragtop bother me, I may just sell the car at a small profit, and go car hunting again.

Thanks for your input. It's nice to be reasured I am making a decent deal. (if all is as described when I get it)

The price is about 3k less than bluebook, a steal...
Get it, if only to resell it.
You may be suprised with a motor on an electric seat that doesnt work. Common problem.
Not sure if that area uses much salt on the roads.
It should get 24mpg on the highway.

Get it.. Get it Get it.

I managed to see 2 regals today, with black imitation convertible top, and man, I don't like the looks.

I agree but that is probably an understatement. IMO it is beyond ugly. But I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. :rolleyes:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/regal_pres-1.jpg


You can get a Regal or PA to look Presidential without all the tacky options.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/regalgs.jpg
My '01 Regal GS, fully loaded

I don't believe that the Presidential "option" has anything to do at all with any trim level of the car. If you go to www.egclassicsinc.com you'll find that they do aftermarket accessory products (through one of their various shops around the country), which include various roof treatments, such as the "Presidential" (and others, such as the "Biarritz", "Executive Series", "All American Edition", "Statesman", "Montigua" and others). This company also offers grille treatments, rear wings, continental kits, chrome kits, etc., for various different types of cars. You can look up various different types of cars and it will tell you what is available for that particular model. I looked up the 2001 Park Avenue and they only show 6 different roof treatments that are currently offered, but no chrome kits or grille treatments. I have noticed in my searches through eBay that a lot of the luxury cars with the Presidential (and other roof treatment) packages come from Florida.


What some local dealers do is take one or two of their cars on the lot and send them in for one of these upgrades. Mostly, one of the Cadillac dealers will add the "Biarritz" option to a couple of their DeVille's and DTS's.

All in all, the Presidential "option" only relates to the roof treatment that was added at sometime or another and was not any sort of option offered directly by Buick. The options that the particular car has you are looking at will simply depend on how it was ordered at the time it was originally built. It could be a basic Park Avenue with no additional options or it could be heavily optioned...or anywhere in between. The RPO code in the trunk will tell you what options the car has.

Hope this helps.

The price is about 3k less than bluebook, a steal...
Get it, if only to resell it.
You may be suprised with a motor on an electric seat that doesnt work. Common problem.
Not sure if that area uses much salt on the roads.
It should get 24mpg on the highway.

Get it.. Get it Get it.

Kind of sounds like a car saleman hard at work. Actually, I think about the same. I would probably own 10 PA's if I could afford. The PA fits my body well...they just seem right. I try other cars and they seem cramped. I like my dad's Grand Marquis (he's die hard Ford/M/L), but it doesn't fit my body right. Have tried center shift but they feel claustrophobic. Plus, driving regularly on winter roads it is nice to have a big car.

Another paradox, these big cars really depreciate (note sticker prices...30-35k). In Montana, there is still lots of room for big road cars. The gas problems of recent years hurt the demand for big cars. And here we are talking about 30mpg (maybe we should not say this too loud). If I was in a big city, I may reconsider (liked both those Regals bnaylor). Maybe my preference was "learned" (my dad likes big cars). It is terrible the LeSabre's and PA's and Olds 88/98 were discontinued...they are taking away the more affordable big cars (at least the used ones). For GM, one now is moved toward Cadillac DeVille. The Lucerne seems small to me. Give me a real Great American Full Size Road Car. Thanks.

BTW...TopherS...good info.

Great info. I think you have uncovered one angle, but probably not the only angle. I think, but am not sure, but, I think the car I'm buying was purchased new, as a presidential, and some have suggested this is a limited edition , as some presidential regals, or centuries were said to have only 500 made. I also noticed someone here claimed the presidential has subtle perks such as plusher seats, and I recall my brother pointed out in the pics, that the seats looked "newer" and puffier than the ones in my current PA.

If this was an aftermarket add-on, I assume no additional perks will be apparent.

Since I really dislike fake ragtops, I'll percieve this as a standard PA.. 2000, with 75,000 miles, and allegedly well maintained. If there are any additional perks, I'll consider it a bonus. The car is a 10 hour drive from my location, so, I won't know any specs from the RPO's labaeled in the trunk lid until we make the trip to pick up the car. Cash is holding me back at the moment. Waiting for tax refund check to get the ball rolling.

The guy selling the car is the son of the owner. He is selling it to settle his dad's estate. A lot of what he has told me is vague, and guesswork, for the most part. He told me it has every option, and I replied and said it has a 3800 NA, which is not the optional supercharged. I asked about Heads-Up display, and that's not there either. He did say....maybe guessing.... the car has traction control, and stabilitrac, ..both of which..I want. It has no sunroof, which I wanted, but can easily live without. I know my 97 PA has almost everything I need, and the missing components with priority, are the heated seats, traction, and stabilitrac.. which, of course, he claims the car possesses.

Thanks for the info, the link, and the reply. Now that I know there's a place that'll add a ragtop... I wonder what the local collision guy would charge to remove mine, and restore the roof. Just a thought.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.

I don't believe that the Presidential "option" has anything to do at all with any trim level of the car. If you go to www.egclassicsinc.com (http://www.egclassicsinc.com) you'll find that they do aftermarket accessory products (through one of their various shops around the country), which include various roof treatments, such as the "Presidential" (and others, such as the "Biarritz", "Executive Series", "All American Edition", "Statesman", "Montigua" and others). This company also offers grille treatments, rear wings, continental kits, chrome kits, etc., for various different types of cars. You can look up various different types of cars and it will tell you what is available for that particular model. I looked up the 2001 Park Avenue and they only show 6 different roof treatments that are currently offered, but no chrome kits or grille treatments. I have noticed in my searches through eBay that a lot of the luxury cars with the Presidential (and other roof treatment) packages come from Florida.


What some local dealers do is take one or two of their cars on the lot and send them in for one of these upgrades. Mostly, one of the Cadillac dealers will add the "Biarritz" option to a couple of their DeVille's and DTS's.

All in all, the Presidential "option" only relates to the roof treatment that was added at sometime or another and was not any sort of option offered directly by Buick. The options that the particular car has you are looking at will simply depend on how it was ordered at the time it was originally built. It could be a basic Park Avenue with no additional options or it could be heavily optioned...or anywhere in between. The RPO code in the trunk will tell you what options the car has.

Hope this helps.

You seem like one of those guys that rants about global warming fraud, and how we need bigger cars........... Oh, wait.. no..that would be me.. he he he

I have owned several different vehicles, and probably have given more thought to things others might just ignore.

I can rant all day, but let me just say a few things in support of your thoughts.

My park ave gets milage as good as my bonnevilles did, but is better built, and has more room, and better options. My caprice drove like the PA, and was well built, but, even with the incredible 4.3 v-8 L99 engine, which has 200 HP, the milage wasn't quite as good as the PA.

So, let compare the PA to newer technology. The malibu, which is about 3/4 as roomy as the PA, has 173 hp, which is less power. I assume, being 10 years newer technology, and 3/4 the capacity, and less hp, the milage will be insane. well, it gets 32-34 mpg. Not a huge stride when compared to my larger, more powerful, 10 yr old car, with 127,000 miles.

I must say, in defense of some other older cars.. I really miss my rear-wheel drive. The PA handles remarkably in the snow and rain though. The little kid in me likes rear wheel drive in snow, and dirt roads..

Thanks for bringing up the point about the lack of value in newer so-called earth friendlier cars. I have to comment, that the interior of my 97 PA is solid, and rattle free, and that's more than I can say about most vehicles at 10 years old, and some new vehicles. The bonneville's kept me safe in a couple accidents, so I have to give cradit to the overall build quality, but the park avenue is built a step above that.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.




Kind of sounds like a car saleman hard at work. Actually, I think about the same. I would probably own 10 PA's if I could afford. The PA fits my body well...they just seem right. I try other cars and they seem cramped. I like my dad's Grand Marquis (he's die hard Ford/M/L), but it doesn't fit my body right. Have tried center shift but they feel claustrophobic. Plus, driving regularly on winter roads it is nice to have a big car.

Another paradox, these big cars really depreciate (note sticker prices...30-35k). In Montana, there is still lots of room for big road cars. The gas problems of recent years hurt the demand for big cars. And here we are talking about 30mpg (maybe we should not say this too loud). If I was in a big city, I may reconsider (liked both those Regals bnaylor). Maybe my preference was "learned" (my dad likes big cars). It is terrible the LeSabre's and PA's and Olds 88/98 were discontinued...they are taking away the more affordable big cars (at least the used ones). For GM, one now is moved toward Cadillac DeVille. The Lucerne seems small to me. Give me a real Great American Full Size Road Car. Thanks.

BTW...TopherS...good info.

Sam B. I know what you mean about the strides in technology. I see all these cars advertised with 30 mpg hwy and think..."mine gets that" and all of these very high end cars only get about 25 mpg hwy. Not to mention that the smaller cars get only about 34 mpg...just isn't worth the risk in safety or the compromise in comfort for the extra 4 mpg.

On the Presidential front, I think I know what the others are talking about. Often times, around here, you will find a car labeled "Northwest Edition" or something like that. I asked my brother in law who sold cars in Colo Sprgs for years and he said it was a dealer installed package to attract buyers. I bet that dealers did the same with the Presidential edition. With the seats, I found the Century with the upgraded seats. I like the emblems on the seats...wish they'd do something like that with the PA...I think I'd like it. It's on the Century (called the "Centurion Edition"). I found the Regal with a similar top, but it did not show any seat upgrades. Check it out.

http://www.egclassicsinc.com/inventory/item.php?itemid=17&year=2001&reqmodel=2

Unfortunately, they don't do anything special with the seats in the PA...only the roof. I really think my seats could use some fluff.

Hopefully, you can have the top safely removed. I like the vinyl tops of the big 80's cars, but IMHO our PA's rooflines just don't seem to lend itself well to these roof treatments, especially, the fake convertible tops.

Good luck in your purchase. :cheers:

I wanted to wait til I had a deposit on the car before posting any links to it. Anyways, here's where I found this car, and some vague pics too.: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150093816644&rd=1

I welcome any and all comments.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.

Mine HERE (http://my.autorevo.com/revo/viewers/PopupViewer1.aspx?IID=64541&PID=2915770).. has a different grille than yours.
Dont know if its an option or what.
I dont see the HUD hole on the dash.. Its a bit hard .. I thought they all had it..

Good Luck .

Very nice Ultra. Unfortunately, the Presidential is not an ultra, so, it doesn't have all the perks of the ultra. I was also told the HUD was an option on all models, but, I always thought it was standard with the ultra. I like thye power of the ultra, but the milage is a bit better with the non- supercharged, and the fuel is a little cheaper too, so, I'm not too upset that I'm not getting the ultra. My original goal was to find a real nice PA, and hopefully, an ultra, but as fuel prices started to rise again, I kinda know it'll be over 3 bucks a gallon, so, all the more I leaned toward the better milage.

I saw an Ultra on e-bay recently, which had a black ragtop similar to mine. Mine has the silly presidential emblem on it too. I must admit, the silver car with black ragtop doesn't look as bad as some other's I've seen lately...online and locally. I guess some just have a top that doesn't seem to match the car's color. One uglier one I saw was a silvery looking top on a maroon car. What made me dislike ragtops for the most part is the lumps that look like the bars in a real ragtop, and I never liked the crome accents, especially at the rear of the roof. The PA's seem to have a lower profile ragtop, but it's still a bit ugly to me.

I am now wondering if the ragtop adds any drag, and effects the aerodynamics, and hampers milage at all. I'm a finatic for great milage on the highway.

Sam B.




Mine HERE (http://my.autorevo.com/revo/viewers/PopupViewer1.aspx?IID=64541&PID=2915770).. has a different grille than yours.
Dont know if its an option or what.
I dont see the HUD hole on the dash.. Its a bit hard .. I thought they all had it..

Good Luck .

I wondered about the aerodynamics too...
Testing the gas mileage I saw that at 55 mph I get 29..and 70 I get 24 indicated MPG..
My back window seems smaller than my 94' back window..that suprised me a bit.

I like the power of the supercharger and for some reason I do get more gas mileage out of my older car.. w/o ragtop. I also note a bit acceleration power in the older car.

Maybe I will find another Ultra and get rid of my LeSabre..

That's great milage, for a supercharged. Is your a/c compressor operational, and was it on at the time you checked your milage? I know mine doesn't engage any more, on my '97, and that probably helps me get better than new car milage. at 55 mph I get a reading of 32-34 mpg, and at 65, I get a reading of 30-32, and around 29-30 at 75 mph. Of course this depends on wind and hills and such, but that's about average on the highway here, which runs along the river, and gets some wind, and has ups and downs. I get slightly better milage on the flat smooth terrain.

I have driven cars with the 3800 v-6 engine for almost 10 years now, and I am still impressed with the milage and reliability we get. Even my supercharged Bonneville wasn't too bad on gas, but I had a habit of accelerating too fast sometimes, just because the engine felt so smooth and powerful. You know that feeling I mean.

Thanks for posting your milage for comparison. Again, you can't go wrong with your car.


Sam B.

I wondered about the aerodynamics too...
Testing the gas mileage I saw that at 55 mph I get 29..and 70 I get 24 indicated MPG..
My back window seems smaller than my 94' back window..that suprised me a bit.

I like the power of the supercharger and for some reason I do get more gas mileage out of my older car.. w/o ragtop. I also note a bit acceleration power in the older car.

Maybe I will find another Ultra and get rid of my LeSabre..

Sam...I think the car looks sharp with the black top. Anyone want to play a quick game of "Car Old Maid" (EDIT: I meant "Go Fish")? I'll start, "give me all your PA's"...OK...(sorry, just kind of hung up on these things right now...).

Seriously, what a great price. Our Montana market is not quite as good, but searching the US market (ebay/Edmunds), it just amazes me to see all the (seemingly) good deals. I suppose it is "trickle down economics" at work. Those with money buy these things new and then basically "give them away" when they get some miles on them. Then other people get great deals...really, a "gift" for us who struggle a bit more to make ends meet. Add to that the foreign market and the exodus from American made (which drives down prices even more). Yes, we do bear the potential maintenance/repair costs with the vehicles as they age (which those with money seem to want to avoid). But with well built cars (and the PA was the flagship), the risk is minimized.

One issue is the upper intake (you may be aware of this). Though the design was improved in 1999, it still may be worthwhile to "sleeve" the upper intake and even relace the lower intake gasket with the aluminum frame gasket. That is the route I am going to pursue with a 1999 with 65K.

My Car:



Not My Car:

http://www.msnusers.com/0cirkr75sefq6j73riaea5d053/Documents/Pictures%2F2000%20PA%20399X299.jpg

Ok...try again...

My Car:


http://www.msnusers.com/0cirkr75sefq6j73riaea5d053/Documents/Pictures%2F1999%20PA2%20562X421.jpg

Can only get one picture to display at a time:

Not My Car:

http://www.msnusers.com/0cirkr75sefq6j73riaea5d053/Documents/Pictures%2Fb0_1_b%20399X299.jpg

Though the design was improved in 1999, it still may be worthwhile to "sleeve" the upper intake and even relace the lower intake gasket with the aluminum frame gasket. That is the route I am going to pursue with a 1999 with 65K.


I have noted other posts that dont recommend the change as a preventative..
Apparently odds are you will never have a problem..

Good Luck

I have noted other posts that dont recommend the change as a preventative..
Apparently odds are you will never have a problem..

Good Luck


Probably true Bass. I do tend to get a little obsessive/compulsive. The 97 I have is on its 3rd upper plenum (now sleeved). But that year had the larger EGR stovepipe. Others have no problems. I had lots of warnings the plenum was failing...major coolant dissapearing with no external leaks. But in my ignorance I drove the car for two weeks before it started blowing lots of white smoke.

The uncertainty of cars is unavoidable. Any of us could walk out on any given day and have a problem. I wish it could be 100% in our control, but of course it is not (and worry just supports the antacid industry). :grinyes:

Bigsky,
I think the market fluctuates for several reasons, but here, since there's salt on the roads most of the winter, the car's value would be less here, but, finding a good car, cheap, is a real task locally.

Some of our close neighbors, like ohio, seem to have some really nice cars, cheap, but the dealers tend to carry some flood cars from time to time, and don't always disclose this.

When buying from a private seller, you are more apt to find a better deal....after all, those who buy new cars, dump off the old one cheap, because the dealer didn't offer much for the trade-in.

I bought my current 97 PA from Ohio, as did my brother, with his 97 Bonne SSEi. My 96 Bonne SSEi came from Maryland, and my 94 Caprice 9C1 came from Albany, New York. I live just north of Buffalo, New York, so, you can easily see I am willing to travel to find a nice car, at a decent price. I think I may have found a better than usual deal this time, according to the compliments you guys have given me so far. I'll be driving 537 miles to get it, and the same to get it home. If all goes well, this should take place this weekend.

As for rich folks selling cheap, this car I am getting belonged to a man that recently passed away, and his son and daughter need to sell it to settle an estate. I assume they don't need the money, or they would have gone through greater lengths to get a better price for it. I think time is essential, and to get the sale done, they are willing to go down on price.


Anyways, sometimes good solid cars at good prices, come from another state..if you live in my state. Years ago, it was said that we can get great cars in PA because their laws are critical on inspections, and a small rust hole fails, so, owners consider the cars to be less valuable, and take them to the local auctions, where they usually sell cheap, and many times it's sold to New Yorkers, looking for a decent car that needs some TLC.

I'm obviously in the market for something a bit nicer, and something I can rely on for a family car. ok, don't get me started on how great the PA's are, and what a well rounded package it is, and how versitile, and roomy, comfortable, safe, sturdy.......well, you get the idea.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.

The market is also driven by the gas prices.. PAs are looked upon briefly as not rice burners and more like gas guzzlers by those not in the know..

Also there are alot of reposessions in the aucton lines. Some of those cars have not had TLC. Auction lines provide cars at 60% blue book and less quite often. Dealers often now are solely auction car buyers and their knowledge base is thier profit margin.

Its also quite interesting to see more buying going on from a distance. Its The certification progarams and businesses are building up confidence. It wasn't long ago when it was buyer beware. There is improvement. Online shopping is gaining trust and with feedback options it establishes reputations.

Very well said. I have noticed when we look at kelly blue book, and similar services, we'll find the average dealer will offer less for a trade-in, than we research a trade-in value to be. I am willing to suggest you maybe have just said the reason why.. Simple.. They are probably getting most of their vehicles at auction. Although I bought my current car in Ohio, I made the mistake of trusting a dealer, and I have a car that is riddled with some elctrical issues, and when we were doing a brake job last year, we noticed gravel and mud in the rear spring area, which leads me to believe it was either a flood car, or was at least backed into a creek, or a ditch. The body shows no damage, and no signs or repair, but the gravel got there somehow. With so many cars falling victim to floods and bad weather, it seems we get a surge of great deals, 6-12 months after a catastrophy. I always steer clear of cars that originated where there was a catastrophy a year ago...more or less..

Once again, I know it seemed like an unwritten rule, that you are taking a risk buying from a private owner, but, I feel with a little time, patience, and research, we can all save a bundle buying this way. If we reasearch well enough, we find our purchase price might be low enough to compensate for any minor or routine repairs that might be needed.

I remember my friend told me a story over 20 years ago. He told me about his cousin, who always had money, but was not a favorite in the family because he was a con man. This con man was looking for a way to be legit, and make his family proud, but still fill the urge to con people. He started what is known today as: Buy here - Pay here dealers. As an example, if he bought a car for 1000 dollars, he'd sell it on his lot for 1000 down, and 50 a month. I have noticed a huge growth in this type of car dealer here, especially soon after a disaster down south. I'm not sure if he's still a con, or if he's legit, but, I do know he feels like he's conning people...

I am also willing to suggest a few weeks posting here will probably set anyone in the right direction if in doubt about a car, or a purchase. You guys have helped me know what to expact when I get my car, and assured me I'm getting a decent deal. It helps that you all share my view on what a great car the PA is.


Sam B.
Tonawanda, New York.


The market is also driven by the gas prices.. PAs are looked upon briefly as not rice burners and more like gas guzzlers by those not in the know..

Also there are alot of reposessions in the aucton lines. Some of those cars have not had TLC. Auction lines provide cars at 60% blue book and less quite often. Dealers often now are solely auction car buyers and their knowledge base is thier profit margin.

Its also quite interesting to see more buying going on from a distance. Its The certification progarams and businesses are building up confidence. It wasn't long ago when it was buyer beware. There is improvement. Online shopping is gaining trust and with feedback options it establishes reputations.

FUNNY you should mention that.
My best friend is just that " a buy here and pay here dealer" ..

So often people just need dependable wheels.. to survive.
His business runs on his reputation and is booming.

I watched him grow his business while working with me at a non associatative job to owning a million dollar business..
He is still working with me on a totally different venue and his wife runs the store and collects the checks. He goes to the auctions. Suprisingly there are very few defaults.

Car knowledge skill is worth $$ .. get it here for free..

I think just like many rent to own businesses, it may have started as a scam, but today, it's a much bigger business, and much more defined. I'm sure today, since we all have so many buy here-pay here choices, it's not going to be easy for a dealer to scam everyone, like it would have been 20 years ago. In the old days, if you had a buy here-pay here dealer in your area, it was the only one you'd ever seen, and it was easy to take advantage of those with high needs, and low income. I'm sure today, the average car in the lot is worth more than the down payment. I hope my previous post didn't sound like buy here - pay here shops were all cons. I never meant that at all. The con was the individual person I mentioned only.

I'm "between careers" and wouldn't mind selling cars for a living. My health doesn't allow me to hang out under the hood all day though, so I'd have to hire a mechanic. I'm planning to sell my 97 PA at a loss, so, I guess selling cars for a living might not be my thing.. :disappoin

Sam B.

FUNNY you should mention that.
My best friend is just that " a buy here and pay here dealer" ..

So often people just need dependable wheels.. to survive.
His business runs on his reputation and is booming.

I watched him grow his business while working with me at a non associatative job to owning a million dollar business..
He is still working with me on a totally different venue and his wife runs the store and collects the checks. He goes to the auctions. Suprisingly there are very few defaults.

Car knowledge skill is worth $$ .. get it here for free..

Just to interject a minute...here is another example of a PA deal. An Ultra with only 54K for 9.5K. Looks like a custom job...similar to Presidential top but different. Also, chrome wheel wells and pillars. Seems like there are lots of deals in Florida. I wonder if they make good money on the shipping so they can sell them at a lower price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buick-Park-Avenue-Ultra-2001-Buick-Park-Avenue-Ultra-Super-Nice-Ride-Fl_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6139QQitemZ110102293 612QQrdZ1

My shipping/ delivery fee was $500.
Plane ticket to where I was going was $200 or if I wait $100.
Plus hotel after I got there..
Gas getting back. Meals..
Figure I could save $200.
Take 2 days off work. $200

NAH>>> I just said bring it to me!

It all depends on where and when. I suppose.

Makes sense, but, a weekend with no wife and kids? Road trip with my brother? That's got to be worth something. I wondered if I'd save money by having it deliveered, but I wanted to see the car before I take it. The online pics didn't let me hear the engine.

My brother and I planned to make this a fun trip, so, it's a sort of excuse to get together...


Sam B.

My shipping/ delivery fee was $500.
Plane ticket to where I was going was $200 or if I wait $100.
Plus hotel after I got there..
Gas getting back. Meals..
Figure I could save $200.
Take 2 days off work. $200

NAH>>> I just said bring it to me!

It all depends on where and when. I suppose.

May I ask where you had the car shipped from, and to? I was going to buy a Bonne SSEi from a guy in Nevada, and it was going to cost me around 1000 bucks to have it shipped from Nevada, to New York state.

Also, were you having the car driven to the shipper, or was this a door to door service? I know when I checked, it was a couple hundred more to have the car picked up from the sellers home, and delivered to my door.

I would also like to know what shipping service you used, because some have better rates than others.

This car is 537 miles away, so, I'm not sure what the shipping costs would be, but, I do know the estimate I got for the Nevada car was for a 2000+ mile trip.

Thanks again for your input.




Sam B.
Tonawanda, New York.

My shipping/ delivery fee was $500.
Plane ticket to where I was going was $200 or if I wait $100.
Plus hotel after I got there..
Gas getting back. Meals..
Figure I could save $200.
Take 2 days off work. $200

NAH>>> I just said bring it to me!

It all depends on where and when. I suppose.

I wanted to chime in and let you guys know where I stand with this car.

Last time I posted, we were planning a trip to Maine to get the car. We have the car now, and the trip was brutal because it was a snowstorm that weekend.... Just my luck, I guess. I grew up in Blizzard Zone, so of course, I made no effort to cancel or postpone the trip.

I finally got the car officially on the road a few weeks ago, and it is a wondeful car, indeed. I have noticed a couple possible issues I will need advice on, but for now, let me just tell you what my basic observations are.

The ragtop is one of the nicer looking ones, luckily, and it has grown on me. It seems the car gets looks, and compliments, so that helps me adjust to the ragtop I thought I wouldn't like. The engine and transmission, most of the time, are a good example of GM's "Buttery Smooth" reputation. The milage seems great, and the acceleration feels brisk and strong. The brakes will need attending to, but will only need pads. Brakes feel smooth and responsive at the present time. My wife absolutely loves the heated seats, and even though this wasn't a big deal to me, I really love it too. It feels like a heated massage, ...well, without the massage.... The suspension is kinda soft, which is great for comfort, but leans a little more than I prefer. The suspension is in great shape, and is nice and high, which is a big plus for me. The steering and alignment parts are all tight, and no play at all. I will mention the power steering pump whines at times, although the fluid level is up to par. I'm not sure if I'll need to do something to cure this whinning.

All of the features and gauges work properly, and appear to be accurate...with the exception of the fuel gauge mentioned earlier. The exterior of the car looks great. Upon closer inspection, I noted a couple small dings, and a few minor scratches that were touched up, and some fine scratches on the trunk lid, which should hand buff nicely. I added rain guards because the rain drips in without them. This is the first time I ever used rain gurards. I like them, but I don't care for the looks, although they aren't an eye sore.

I also have the typical slow front wondows , like many others have had, and I would like to know if it's the rubber I need, or the internal parts. On my old car, I thought it was the internal parts, but this one seems like maybe it's the rubber that causes the issue.

The radio has difficulty playing cd's that are less than perfect, especially on a bumpy roadway. Half the lights are dead on the radio as well. I'll most likely replace it in time, with something that plays MP3's .

The fuel gauge is quirky , as I suspected. I haven't fixed it yet, but I had difficulty finding info online for the sending unit.

I also noticed the transmission occasionally starts to shift hard. I'll pull over, shut it off, wait a minute or 3, and start it up again, and it shifts like butter again. I have noticed an odd noise after I shut the car off at times,and I suspect that is related to the transmission shift issue. I have noticed on some days, when the transmission starts to shift hard, I hear a howl, or squeel during acceleration. Any opinions on this would be very welcome.

I'll try to get some decent pics of the car this week, so you can all see what she looks like. Any comments or advice is very appreciated.

Sorry I took so long to get back to you all.


Sam B.
Tonawanda, New York.

Mad9C1...Concerning the transmission, sounds like the PCS (pressure control solenoid). Try a search with "PCS," there have been a couple of recent threads. I know someone with a 97 who just had a third one put in ($450) at a dealer. My own 97 is on its second one (was replaced at around 55k), and may be due for another (the car has the same symptoms as yours). I added a bottle of "Lubegard Red" (suggested by bnaylor on this forum), and it has helped.

Bigsky,
Thanks for the reply. 450 bucks...? ouch.. I'll read some recent threads and try the additive you used. I remember the same problem, on my '97 PA which I recently sold. It would come and go on that car, so I never gave it much thought. I'm going to try to find the number for the guy who bought it to share this info with him. What will happen if this issues doesn't get fixed? I assume major transmission trouble in the future.

I thought I'd mention, when I was buying bonnevilles, with the same drivetrain as our Buicks, there was several threads mentioning fluid levels on our transmissions. This was on Bonneville club forums, btw.. The general idea stated that at times, when taking a turn too fast...(i think it was a left turn..not positive though..).. the fluid would swoosh to one side, and air would get in the line, causing different momentary issues, including the transmission acting like it was in neutral, and then slamming into gear, if you were trying to accelerate. The cure, oddly, was to overfill the transmission by a half pint, or less. Most of us were shocked to hear this, as it is a lengthly process to properly check our fluid level, and one would imagine the level should be on par, and not over. It was also said that most transmissions should not be overfilled, and this "fix" pertains to our transmissions only.

I don't suggest anyone overfills their transmission on purpose without fully researching the subject. I personally did not overfill mine at the time.

It is obvious to me now, that the bonneville issue wasn't the same as the PA problem we're talking about, but, I thought I'd share this weird transmission discussion with you anyways..

Sam B.


Mad9C1...Concerning the transmission, sounds like the PCS (pressure control solenoid). Try a search with "PCS," there have been a couple of recent threads. I know someone with a 97 who just had a third one put in ($450) at a dealer. My own 97 is on its second one (was replaced at around 55k), and may be due for another (the car has the same symptoms as yours). I added a bottle of "Lubegard Red" (suggested by bnaylor on this forum), and it has helped.

Glad the car works out for you.

When I got mine a couple years ago, the fuel gage was wierd. It would be on full (although the tank was not full), then would swing down to empty, causing the bell to chime and the "check guages" message in the Head Up Display to go on. Then it would go back to full and the lights/messages would turn off. As you would drive, it would do this incessantly...back and forth. Turned out to be the fuel sending unit. It was replaced and no problems since.

Mine only had the AM/FM/Cassette, so I wanted CD and got a AM/FM/CD/Cassette from a salvage yard (came from a Regal...most Buicks used the same radios...plug and play). I paid about $75 for it and it was surprisingly easy to replace.

Good luck with the car. :cheers:

Also had that fuel guage problem, but then it fixed itself (gotta love it when that happens). Good to know though on the sending unit...

I too remember reading some of that Bonnie thread...one of the reasons I poured 10 oz. of Lubegard red in the Park trannie and drove on. Aren't those Bonnie guys something...not many gnats are left unstrained...