Most horsepower without turbo?????

I have a rebuilt 99 integra GSR, it has and LS block because that block is stronger, it has been bored, new pistons, ect. ect. I really want a lot more power without getting a turbo because I have to drive this car for the rest of high school, 2 years, and about 8 more years of college. What mods can I make to get a lot more power without a turbo? How much horsepower can I get without using a turbo? When the pistons were put back in my motor, they left 8 thousandths of an inch so that it would rev up quicker. What ever it takes, (besides NOS) b/c my engine can handle a lot now.

Peace
Blake

Originally posted by bcsintegra
I have a rebuilt 99 integra GSR, it has and LS block because that block is stronger, it has been bored, new pistons, ect. ect. I really want a lot more power without getting a turbo because I have to drive this car for the rest of high school, 2 years, and about 8 more years of college. What mods can I make to get a lot more power without a turbo? How much horsepower can I get without using a turbo? When the pistons were put back in my motor, they left 8 thousandths of an inch so that it would rev up quicker. What ever it takes, (besides NOS) b/c my engine can handle a lot now.

Peace
Blake

Well if you need reliability, and I"m guessing keep the costs down too, there's not a WHOLE bunch you can do without going FI or N2O...Building very high powered NA cars out of I4s requires a lot of radical tuning that makes them not legal to drive on the street, or if so, not very fun, because of the way they drive. I'd say your best bet is nitrous.

I know its not really really cheap, but an investment in your fuel system/management might be a good one. Also you may look at exaust/intake upgrades (ie. cai, intake manifold, downpipe, header, etc.) If you are really feeling bold and daring, perhaps take a look at your camshaft, I know with vtec and all, theres room to grow (A more agressive cam angle) If you do this, however, DO NOT replace your camshaft with something that doesn't facilitate and completely support the vtec system.
Variable timing is a blessing...Keep it

Hey, thanks. I hate to go to NOS because I didn't rebuild my motor for that, and I want power all around, not just at top end. I have a tanabe g medallion exhaust end, and am working on getting the entire cat-back soon. If I do add headers, and all that up to the camshafts, could you give me an estimate in how much power I would have? I know turbos give you around 100 more hp, would the camshafts, fuel system upgrade and all that be anywhere near that increase? Plus, when you get a turbo, don't you have to make some type of fuel upgrade anyway?

Thanks a bunch

Your in the same situation i'm in. Junior in high school, need fast car, needs to last through college. Its pretty hard decision, im not even sure what im going to do. I might just go turbo, and if it dies, ill buy some $500 junker to cruise around in while i fix my car. I doubt you could get 100 horsepower without forced induction while still having a good daily driver. Its pretty damn expensive to go n/a also. Why not look at a JRSC? i hear they're a lot more relaible than turbos, but i still really doubt itll last you all the way through college. damn i dont even know if my car will last through college, cause i put on a crapload of miles. Has anyone read the article about putting a 50 shot on a completely stock honda civic, running it through like 20 bottles, testing the parts, and having them still meet new parts requirements? I'll try and find that, when i read it i actually considered getting a 50 shot, but the article is probably written by NOS trying to sell me their shit.

Alright...heres how it goes down...
Anything you can replace for weight (ie headers, etc) will proportionately increase the output of your car. Theres a cool link for this that shows this correlation, http://performancesupply.com/formulas.htm
Camshafts are pretty sketchy, I really have no idea what does what in terms of numbered output levels. Look around for cams with the vtec lobe installed, for sure. This isnt something I would fret about, however, the shaft in your car is pretty adequate for now.
As far as fuel system things go, there are no specific numbers for any one procedure. I would reccomend upgrading you fuel rail, pump, injectors, and cylinder assembly before you install a turbo, just so you can really have fun with forced induction when you get it. This will also prolong the cars life, replacing individual pieces of your engine.
You said you want to have this car for a while, however, so let me say this: Don't Go Hi Flow. The beauty of VTEC (amoung other reasons) is the ability to combine stellar mpg with good output when you need it. High flow fuel systems, though fun and stuff, take away lots of your economic edge. If you are anything like me, you need money.
I would also say don't even bother with nitrous oxide systems until later, when you are digging the idea of racing a litttle bit more. In terms of smoking that asshole with a BM'er at the stop light, you will be in pretty good shape soon.
Happy Hunting. :)

Eh i dont think getting a fuel system will give you any ponies. If you absolutely dont want to go any forced induction, start with i/h/e, then you can pick up some underdrive pullies camshafts, cam gears. Once you do all that you can shit your pants looking into the price of serious engine work, and go buy a turbo :) Dude trying to get a fast daily driver that will last sucks. i think i might just go with nitrous. I dont race that often. And my d16 engine is a dime a dozen, so if it blows, ill have it back up in a week. I really really doubt a 50 shot will blow my engine, unless it was my fault for not using it properly.

Hey, I appreciate you guys help. I am new to the game really. Well as i said I am new so what did you mean by i/h/e? My bad. So, let me get this right, first I can upgrade my fuel system with fuel rail, injectors, cyclinder, just making sure that nothing is high flow b/c that would totally mess up my descent gas mileage. Then I can move on to cams/shaft and that junk, that way if I do decide to go turbo, then I won't have to worry about whether or not the turbo will work with what I've already got.

Thanks
:sun:

i/h/e is just the abbreviation for intake/headers/exaust.. Those are the 3 basic bolt on mods. Right now i wouldnt waste your money on a fuel system, the one you have flows enough. if you absolutely want to go n/a i would buy a cold air intake, get some headers and a good exaust. you might get 20 horses from that. Then you can get some underdrive pullies and cam gears. Then you can decide if you want to continue to go n/a... The prob is, if you buy that stuff some of it work work with the turbo. You'll have to get rid of your intake and headers, and maybe exaust if you want something bigger, which you prob will for forced induction. what i would do is either get basic turbo setup, and if your budget allows it, add on to it with fuel rails, exaust, ignition, etc to run higher boost. If you cant afford that stuff, youll still be a lot quicker running low boost on a turbo. or you could go cheap and get a 50 shot, spark plug wires and colder plugs, and cross your finger and hope nothing goes wrong. I will probably go nitrous route unless someone convinces me otherwise. I really want to get a turbo, but i need a small shot to hold me over while i'm saving. Anyone see any problems to running nitrous (40-50 shot) for year, then taking it off and putting a turbo on? I probably wont use it more than 40 times in a year, will it cause significant wear? please someone who knows answer, i dont want to see "i saw that fast and furios movie and that one guy blew his car right up with nos... dont do it, its crazy!"

Do any of you people know anything about motors?!?!?! You can't put non VTEC camshafts into a VTEC motor! If you have a VTEC motor the only cams designed for it will include the VTEC lobe. Also, cams will add about 7-15 hp realisticly to the wheels. I/H/E will not add 20, maybe 15 to the wheels, maybe... more like 10. Combine I/H/E with a cam and youve got around 20-25hp more.

Originally posted by luti
Do any of you people know anything about motors?!?!?! You can't put non VTEC camshafts into a VTEC motor! If you have a VTEC motor the only cams designed for it will include the VTEC lobe. Also, cams will add about 7-15 hp realisticly to the wheels. I/H/E will not add 20, maybe 15 to the wheels, maybe... more like 10. Combine I/H/E with a cam and youve got around 20-25hp more.


There is a way to bypass the VTEC system, but yes, for the most part you need the vtec lobed camshaft. Sorry for the confusion
Yea, I forgot about pulleys and cam gears, thats a really good IdeA.

Thanks for the info. Anyway, I see you made yourself a VTEC engagement light. How did you do that, I would like one of those also.:confused:

LUTI-Do you recommend starting with the intake,headers,exhaust, then upgrading the cam? What else after that, if you know so much, share the light!! Some people are lost, like me in some areas?!?!?!

First off, you can bypass vtec by disabling the solenoid. But a non vtec camshaft will not fit right into a vtec head. The rockers and lobes won't line up right.

Second, yes I/H/E is a good start. If your staying N/A that is. Cam(s) are a good place to move to. Don't forget suspension. A car with a fun engine is not nearly as exciting as being able to throw it through a turn at high speed. Good tires, light rims and a well balanced tight suspension. The short shifter was also a very nice addition, it makes driving much more enjoyable.

Go to http://www.hazone.com if you want a VTEC light howto, along with lots of other good info.

I'm currently looking into getting a Jackson Racing Supercharger. I want torque (yeah I know Honda and torque are opposites). The advantage to JSRC's over turbo's are lowend power, easy install, no custom work needed and they work with all the parts I've already got. No need for a new intake or header.

who ever said anything about putting non vtec cams into a a vtec car? I never said shit about that, im talking he could get something like skun2 racing cams for dohc vtec... I'm going to get some pics developed today, and two of them are pics of my vtec light, so ill post them, and if you like it, ill tell you how i did it. Luti, definitly tell me how the JRSC goes, im conidering that too. Everyday i go back back and forth from turbo to supercharger, etc. I dont see many kids with supercharged d16y's, so im wondering what they'll probably run. I want to be well into 14's... easily possible with supercharger right?

well there are alot of thing to do and run fast all motor. a good start like everyone else said is i/h/e, but i found with those plus skunk2 camgears (tuned right) and a test pipe my teg put down 168whp w/ 126.7ftlbs of torque, when i went from i/h/e and added cam grs, testpipe, and gutted my car it went from a 15.0 to 14.3 so in my opinion i would definatly get some gears & a some sort of high flow cat, that is if you want to go cheap, their are many other things if you have the $$$$: bored/new throttle body, intake manifold (venom, edlebrock), port and polish- (i think 5 angle valve job) this is a building block step pretty much required for 200+whp, shave deckto raise compression-(iffy), ignition system-msd,external cap w/ external coil-blaster2, cam shafts i would recomend jun 3's or toda race cams (w/ these cams you must get springs, valves, retainers, or anything to raise compression, plus many more shit i cant think of. also another great way to make your car fast is GUT the shit out of it get rid of all the b/s. I hope this will help w/ your quest for a nasty teg. oh yeah if you get cams and raise your red line then just to let you know revving that high even w/ built motor still will put alot of fatigue on it.:sun:

luti i noticed you are getting a jrsc, it might not be the same for your car but i had to do some minor fabrications to my cold air intake.

Hey, if you're trying to stay away from turbo because of the reliability issue, why not try a supercharger? they may not put out as much power as a turbo can, but they do give you a great boost and they are easier to maintain than a turbo. A friend of mine has an SI supercharged and doesn't have any problems with it thus far (been a few years)



just a suggestion

andrew

Originally posted by FREED0MFiST
who ever said anything about putting non vtec cams into a a vtec car?

That was me, I thought he wanted to do that, was trying to clear grond.

I wish I was getting a JRSC, I am saving up for it. When I get it (if i do) it won't be till the summer. I don't have a garrage out here in NY (I'm in college at RIT), so I would wait till I got home to do the install.

ahh so your planning on doing it right when i am. Its gonna take me that long to get the money. So if i will still be able to use headers with JRSC? What about a vortech supercharger, do they even make those for my car? And are the centrifigal superchargers as good/reliable as a JRSC which is roots i believe?

Originally posted by FREED0MFiST
ahh so your planning on doing it right when i am. Its gonna take me that long to get the money. So if i will still be able to use headers with JRSC? What about a vortech supercharger, do they even make those for my car? And are the centrifigal superchargers as good/reliable as a JRSC which is roots i believe?

Yes, you can use headers with JRSC and I believe they work with the Vortec. I dont know if they make a model for you.

I'll think into a supercharger, but I just don't know about forced induction. My motor is already bored, and I already have Magnesium Alloy rims (6 lbs. apiece) and a Kaminari carbon fiber hood (app. 4lbs.). my car is completely hooked up with all the needs except suspension and the motor. I will look into a supercharger a little more, but until then I will stick with the i/h/e, cams, ignition,and camshaft. Then maybe a fuel upgrade. Does that sound ok to those who know (I am probably going N/A)? What exactly is a fuel system upgrade for, besides getting more gas? I know you have to get one with a turbo and all that but what good is it for someone like me? Thanks

PS.
I have a Tanabe G Power Medallion exhaust end, not the cat-back. Will the cat-back give it a better sound? and more power? Is there anywhere that I can just buy the cat-back without buying what I've already got again?

Originally posted by FREED0MFiST
ahh so your planning on doing it right when i am. Its gonna take me that long to get the money. So if i will still be able to use headers with JRSC? What about a vortech supercharger, do they even make those for my car? And are the centrifigal superchargers as good/reliable as a JRSC which is roots i believe?

http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Civic/MODAFOIN/
I didnt check it, but if theres a supercharger for your car, this is where I think I would find it. You might also want to take a look over at Summit Racing (http://www.summitracing.com), they usually focus on domestic performance but there might be superchargers for your car there as well.

As long as you arent buying plastic parts, you should be in pretty good shape as far as getting a relatively long life out of these pieces.

eh ive looked at modacar, they only have a vortech for the si. Im not worried about the life of the supercharger, im worried about the life of my engine :)

2 other things that you could do to go all motor that would help alot is a lightened flywheel or an si tranny oh yeah or a type r lsd

Si and Type R trannies wont fit to D series engines. The LSD might swap but I doubt it. Their are some good LSD's for D series blocks. I believe Quafe <spelling?> makes one.

pretty close, its quaife

Hey, would a Type R LSD fit on my GSR?

Yes, a Type R tranny or parts from it will fit into a GSR, and most likely an Si.

Originally posted by FREED0MFiST
eh ive looked at modacar, they only have a vortech for the si. Im not worried about the life of the supercharger, im worried about the life of my engine :)


Why are you concerned that the charger is made by vortech?

I hear they make a good centrifigual supercharger.

I was talking to the guy w/ the integra when i said that.