Starting and Dying problems
Bluebird5.0
02-19-2007, 08:03 AM
I have a 2000 Malibu 3.4. This weekend it started having problems with not starting. We were having these problems last year and I replaced the fuel pump but now it is doing it again. The only is I noticed this time when you turn the key to on with out bumping the starter, if the gauges move it is very likely to start. Sometimes when you turn the key none of the guages move and it won't start. I don't know if it is a coincidence or indication of something electrical. If you turn the key to try and start it will try everytime and act as if it is not getting any fuel. I need suggestions of what to check. I'm thinking of checking the fuel pressure regulator.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Shawn
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Shawn
bugwubber
02-19-2007, 02:26 PM
Just curious,
When you encounter a "no start", if you flip the key over, does it start?
I had intermittent starting issues for a few years. Finally pulled the ign. lock cylinder out and sprayed it full of electrical cleaner until it ran clear. Problem immediately cleared up.
shot in the dark....
When you encounter a "no start", if you flip the key over, does it start?
I had intermittent starting issues for a few years. Finally pulled the ign. lock cylinder out and sprayed it full of electrical cleaner until it ran clear. Problem immediately cleared up.
shot in the dark....
Bluebird5.0
02-19-2007, 07:49 PM
Just curious,
When you encounter a "no start", if you flip the key over, does it start?
I had intermittent starting issues for a few years. Finally pulled the ign. lock cylinder out and sprayed it full of electrical cleaner until it ran clear. Problem immediately cleared up.
shot in the dark....
No, the other side of the key doesn't change anything and even using a different key. I actually have more information now though. There are no lights on the cluster that come on and none of the needles move when it is not going to start. It will try but will not fire up. Then if the needles move and the lights come on for the cluster it will fire up but will only remaining running if the idle is held up for a second with a little gas. I am starting to think it is definitely an electrical problem, I just don't know if this is the ignition cylinder symptoms. However, it is also dying when it's being driven down the street. It just cuts off like as if the battery power has been lost.
When you encounter a "no start", if you flip the key over, does it start?
I had intermittent starting issues for a few years. Finally pulled the ign. lock cylinder out and sprayed it full of electrical cleaner until it ran clear. Problem immediately cleared up.
shot in the dark....
No, the other side of the key doesn't change anything and even using a different key. I actually have more information now though. There are no lights on the cluster that come on and none of the needles move when it is not going to start. It will try but will not fire up. Then if the needles move and the lights come on for the cluster it will fire up but will only remaining running if the idle is held up for a second with a little gas. I am starting to think it is definitely an electrical problem, I just don't know if this is the ignition cylinder symptoms. However, it is also dying when it's being driven down the street. It just cuts off like as if the battery power has been lost.
stcaldwell
03-19-2007, 12:16 PM
I have the same problem! Did you fins a solution?
hbtd1
03-20-2007, 07:51 PM
Don't know if this will help or not, but try it.
Put the key in the ignition, turn to the on position. Leave it there for at least 10 minutes. Turn it back off, then crank up the car. This resets the theft system. You have to do it for at least 10 minutes though. Either sit in the car or roll the window down and do it from the outside. You cannot open the door. Hope this helps.
Put the key in the ignition, turn to the on position. Leave it there for at least 10 minutes. Turn it back off, then crank up the car. This resets the theft system. You have to do it for at least 10 minutes though. Either sit in the car or roll the window down and do it from the outside. You cannot open the door. Hope this helps.
HyperFox
03-20-2007, 10:53 PM
Hmm.. Sounds deifnitally like an electrical gremlin. I would check the battery terminals for cleanliness and tightness, then inspect your grounds.
I dont think It is passlock. If it were when the no start condition appears, the passlock light should be on when it refuses to start. Key word here is SHOULD. Passlock is finicky at the best of times.
Now I would check the Fuel pressure regualtor just in case. I remember with older 3100's there was a shrader valve just after the regulator that you could press. With a assistant, you could depress this valve, and have him turn the key to run to prime the fuel pump. If you do this, be warned FUEL WILL SPRAY out. Id recommend coveralls and safety glasses just in case. If this works, you know that you have fuel getting past the regulator.
As for the fuel pump, if you can hear the pump prime when you turn on the car, its probably good. Let under the car's rear end and have an assitant turn the pump on, you should hear the whirrrr noise if its running good.
I dont think It is passlock. If it were when the no start condition appears, the passlock light should be on when it refuses to start. Key word here is SHOULD. Passlock is finicky at the best of times.
Now I would check the Fuel pressure regualtor just in case. I remember with older 3100's there was a shrader valve just after the regulator that you could press. With a assistant, you could depress this valve, and have him turn the key to run to prime the fuel pump. If you do this, be warned FUEL WILL SPRAY out. Id recommend coveralls and safety glasses just in case. If this works, you know that you have fuel getting past the regulator.
As for the fuel pump, if you can hear the pump prime when you turn on the car, its probably good. Let under the car's rear end and have an assitant turn the pump on, you should hear the whirrrr noise if its running good.
Negatoro
03-20-2007, 11:54 PM
:killbarne .....Hahahaha.
:1: to electrical gremlins.. :1: To checking battery terminals and grounds.
Bluebird5.0, I'm trying to understand you post.
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages don't move:
Does the radio turn on?
Do int. lights work?
Then when you turn to start:
Does starter engage and motor turn over?
Does the car start or just turn over and act like it's getting no fuel?
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages DO move..
then you turn to start:
Does the car start?
Does the motor turn over and act like it isn't getting fuel?
To keep it simple you can just copy/paste and type answers in.
What I'd try to determine is if the no start condition is caused by an 'electrical gremlin' or something like a bad fuel pressure regulator [FPR].
A quick way to 'check' FPR.. With engine cold, cycle key 'off' to 'on' a few times without cranking. Guard your eyes and home for fuel to squirt out at ~40psi when you depress shraeder valve on fuel rail test port [located on pass. side of rear fuel rail right behind power steering pump resevoir].
If you want more or you are bored now then read on.
Best way to test FPR is with a fuel pressure guage that is compatable with the shraeder valve test port.
1.)relieve fuel pressure [I pull fuel pump relay in underhood junction block then start car, let it die out.]
2.)connect fuel pressure guage to test port
3.)plug pump relay back in and turn key to 'on' not 'start' to let pump run.
4.)check fuel pressure and compare to spec. (refer to my posts in thread titled 'car won't start' posted by asilverblazer)
5.)if insufficient pressure [lower than spec] then repeat step 3.
6.)if fuel pressure meets spec. then assume FPR good.
Note: fuel spraying out the test port means that the pump is working, and the fuel pressure regulator probably isn't bad.
The pump pressurizes fuel through the delivery lines and across the fuel rails. The FPR is located on the other side of the rails. The FPR bleeds off pressure to maintain consistant pressure at fuel rails. Excess [bled] fuel passes through FPR and is returned to the tank.
Just to say it again, because the test port is located upstream of the FPR, if the FPR is functioning properly then when the test valve is depressed you will have fuel spray out at ~40psi.
On the other hand assuming FPR is faulty [open and letting fuel pass through - not restricting to build/maintain pressure over the rails] You might get anything from no fuel to a weak squirt of fuel out of the test port.
-Mark T.
:1: to electrical gremlins.. :1: To checking battery terminals and grounds.
Bluebird5.0, I'm trying to understand you post.
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages don't move:
Does the radio turn on?
Do int. lights work?
Then when you turn to start:
Does starter engage and motor turn over?
Does the car start or just turn over and act like it's getting no fuel?
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages DO move..
then you turn to start:
Does the car start?
Does the motor turn over and act like it isn't getting fuel?
To keep it simple you can just copy/paste and type answers in.
What I'd try to determine is if the no start condition is caused by an 'electrical gremlin' or something like a bad fuel pressure regulator [FPR].
A quick way to 'check' FPR.. With engine cold, cycle key 'off' to 'on' a few times without cranking. Guard your eyes and home for fuel to squirt out at ~40psi when you depress shraeder valve on fuel rail test port [located on pass. side of rear fuel rail right behind power steering pump resevoir].
If you want more or you are bored now then read on.
Best way to test FPR is with a fuel pressure guage that is compatable with the shraeder valve test port.
1.)relieve fuel pressure [I pull fuel pump relay in underhood junction block then start car, let it die out.]
2.)connect fuel pressure guage to test port
3.)plug pump relay back in and turn key to 'on' not 'start' to let pump run.
4.)check fuel pressure and compare to spec. (refer to my posts in thread titled 'car won't start' posted by asilverblazer)
5.)if insufficient pressure [lower than spec] then repeat step 3.
6.)if fuel pressure meets spec. then assume FPR good.
Note: fuel spraying out the test port means that the pump is working, and the fuel pressure regulator probably isn't bad.
The pump pressurizes fuel through the delivery lines and across the fuel rails. The FPR is located on the other side of the rails. The FPR bleeds off pressure to maintain consistant pressure at fuel rails. Excess [bled] fuel passes through FPR and is returned to the tank.
Just to say it again, because the test port is located upstream of the FPR, if the FPR is functioning properly then when the test valve is depressed you will have fuel spray out at ~40psi.
On the other hand assuming FPR is faulty [open and letting fuel pass through - not restricting to build/maintain pressure over the rails] You might get anything from no fuel to a weak squirt of fuel out of the test port.
-Mark T.
stcaldwell
03-23-2007, 08:48 AM
I don't know about Bluebird, but on my car...
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages don't move:
Does the radio turn on? Yes
Do int. lights work? Yes
Then when you turn to start:
Does starter engage and motor turn over? Yes
Does the car start or just turn over and act like it's getting no fuel? Doesn't start; just turns over and acts like it's getting no fuel. NOTE: The theft system light does NOT blink.
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages DO move..
then you turn to start:
Does the car start? Yes
Does the motor turn over and act like it isn't getting fuel? No
Also, I will occasionally be driving down the road and the gauges and the engine will shut off. The car won't start back up until I can get the gauges to show something. Often happens when I have to stop quickly.
HELP!!!!!!
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages don't move:
Does the radio turn on? Yes
Do int. lights work? Yes
Then when you turn to start:
Does starter engage and motor turn over? Yes
Does the car start or just turn over and act like it's getting no fuel? Doesn't start; just turns over and acts like it's getting no fuel. NOTE: The theft system light does NOT blink.
When you turn the key to 'on' and the guages DO move..
then you turn to start:
Does the car start? Yes
Does the motor turn over and act like it isn't getting fuel? No
Also, I will occasionally be driving down the road and the gauges and the engine will shut off. The car won't start back up until I can get the gauges to show something. Often happens when I have to stop quickly.
HELP!!!!!!
Negatoro
03-25-2007, 01:04 AM
I wonder where Bluebird went.. Takin' a shit I suppose.
STCaldwell:
The Powertrain Control Module sends signal to guages as well as controlling fuel injector pulse and ignition module..
No power to PCM --> guages won't move/no engine start..
The motor will still crank as start circuit does not require PCM operation.
Because the problem is intermittant, probably just a bad PCM ground.
Disconnect B- terminal, touch metal in the car before handling PCM - static can kill it.
PCM is located driver's side kick panel under dash to the immediate right of parking brake pedal.
Trace two BLK/WHT [ground] wires from PCM to ground splice pack. Check wires for damage/corrosion/kinks and inspect grounding location. Clean ground contact and secure.
-Mark T.
Edit:
FPR is not your problem, stcaldwell/bluebird.
Bluebird, your motor would run rough for a little bit because when the PCM loses power it then must relearn how to effectively control your motor when it recovers power.
STCaldwell:
The Powertrain Control Module sends signal to guages as well as controlling fuel injector pulse and ignition module..
No power to PCM --> guages won't move/no engine start..
The motor will still crank as start circuit does not require PCM operation.
Because the problem is intermittant, probably just a bad PCM ground.
Disconnect B- terminal, touch metal in the car before handling PCM - static can kill it.
PCM is located driver's side kick panel under dash to the immediate right of parking brake pedal.
Trace two BLK/WHT [ground] wires from PCM to ground splice pack. Check wires for damage/corrosion/kinks and inspect grounding location. Clean ground contact and secure.
-Mark T.
Edit:
FPR is not your problem, stcaldwell/bluebird.
Bluebird, your motor would run rough for a little bit because when the PCM loses power it then must relearn how to effectively control your motor when it recovers power.
stcaldwell
04-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Follow up on situation...checked PCM. It was very loose from the mounting! There were also a couple of grounds that weren't tight. Additionally the negative connectrion on the battery wasn't quite tight and the battery was in poor shape - the OE battery from an '01 car. Replaced battery, tightened grounds, remounted PCM. So far, so good.
Negatoro, you're a life saver!
Negatoro, you're a life saver!
Negatoro
04-02-2007, 11:22 PM
Hell Yeah!
stcaldwell
04-20-2007, 08:32 PM
Three weeks now without a single problem...no stalls, starts everytime at first touch. I'm hereby calling it fixed and calling Negatoro a genius.
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2026