Apology

Guys,

Apparently, I ruffled some feathers with some of my comments about Camaros. Please accept my apology, as it was all in fun, and wasn't meant to be taken seriously. The only thing I want you guys to take seriously from me, is any advice I may offer on how to improve the performance of your engines. In truth, I don't care WHAT color you paint it. Chevy Orange, Pontiac Blue, Ford Red, doesn't matter (not to forget Hemi Orange, the "race" version...), I'll build it. I HAVE built it... I will never propegate false information.

I do get a bit defensive when it comes to the old Injun. The reasons are simple. For 35 years, we've (Pontiac guys) been hearing all about how much better Chevys are, and Pontiacs don't "run", etc. Truly experienced racers and techs KNOW, it doesn't matter WHAT brand, they can ALL be made to run, and they ALL have combinations that can make them pigs. Pontiac engines are the "Rodney Dangerfield" of racing. After all, GTO didn't earn a reputation for losing... But those that go racing every week, should have noticed over the last few years, more and more Pontiac-powered cars are coming back. They dominate the points at our two local tracks. (VERY consistent race engines)

Anyway, next time you want to say "Poor Old N****r Thinks It's A Cadilac, remember how you feel when you hear the "poor man's" comment. Truth is, a Firebird is on the same platform as Camaro, but there are differences across the lines and across all the generations. Through the first gen, Camaro outsold Firebird by a good margin. 2nd gen, the opposite is true, at least among the "performance" cars. T/A peaked sales in '79 at over 108K units. Gen 3 became the era of the Cheviac. Only the seats, dash and aerodynamics are significantly different in that era. A 3rd gen T/A with the lights down, is VERY aero. But with the lights up (on the Pontiac), Camaro is a little cleaner. Gen 4 brought us to the end. At least the last ones had the awesome LS engines in them!

Please, accept my apology, and don't take things so seriously when it's a hobby.

Jim

Jim, there was no need to apologise, especially to this bunch :lol2:

Seriously, everybody is fine, thanks fo rthe clarification, and summing a chunk of history all in one paragraph :thumbsup:

Me dont hear no offensive talk here...:thumbsup:

what did i miss?

Well you didn't ruff my feathers until now...


What about the awesome LT1 engine!?!?! :swear:


edit: btw I was just kidding.

lmao@stehpos comment. I AGREE >:P

hehe. nah, no one gets their panties in a bunch here much.. those guys usually stop coming to the forums cuz well. the banstick is pretty large. O_O

ever feel like a big as truck drove by and droped sum shit off it that was worth alot and u missed it??? in other words...whats this all about? who said what to who, and who got baned???

Well, whoever said Poncho's can't run has obviously never seen or run a Pontiac engine. Lets just mention one or two here.... 389 Tri-Power, RamAir IV, 455 HO...and the big daddy...455 SD. Each and every one of those engines were feared on the streets, they regularly ate Mopar's, Fords and sorry to say, Chevy's.

Right now I don't think anyone got banned yet. If the thread hijacking continues someone will get banned. Its not MrPbody. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and some just get worked up is all. Everything is fine right now...

Right now I don't think anyone got banned yet. If the thread hijacking continues someone will get banned. Its not MrPbody. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and some just get worked up is all. Everything is fine right now...

:1:

It's that time of year guys, cabin fever or whatever lurking around doesn't make it right to throw up random posts.

Noone has been banned, and I have yet to ban an 'official' member and I'd like to keep it that way. Let's just keep to the point with the threads. To the same effect, other than old threads being ressurected, I never closed a thread until now because it had the potential to get out of hand due to a random comment being thrown out there in the midst of 2 minds trying to come to a level playing field.

And, for what it's worth, it's a furom, ie open discussion, and a discussion consists of 2 sides that often don't meet eye to eye so some arugement, I encourage, however once it gets out of hand, then the moderating staff must intervine.

No apologies needed here either. I've offended enough people in my time here, that I can't even LOOK at a stone let alone pick one up to throw. :banghead:

I don't ever recall anyone saying anything about any one manufacturer being inferior to another either... unless it's some occasional Ford bashing done in good spirits. I've heard the P.O.N.T.I.A.C., F.O.R.D., and I'd rather be caught pushing a Ford than driving a Chevy bs, an attribute it to that person being a jackass. I'd kill for a 51 mercury, a 57 Apache, a 71 Torino GT, or basically anything old and pre-computers. :smokin: Actually read an recent article that said sb ford's generally put out more hp than sb Chevy's, don't know if it's true, don't really care. All I know is I had 4 fords, all 4 were complete crap and for some stupid reason dumbass me kept buying another one. Doesn't mean they all suck, I just don't like them. To each his own.

It's all good, just remember we're ALL friends here :grinyes: ... And even more important, remember THIS... even though I may something intelligent about cars from time to time, I generally have no clue as to what I'm talking about. :disappoin Shit... RD hasn't seen blacktop in 8 months, and probably won't for another 8 months, until I can learn what the hell is wrong with it and THEN learn how to fix it. :grinno:


EDIT: Hey Dylan, when you going to get that chick at the bottom of the screen to do a little dance for us?

To each his own. No need to say sorry to these knuckle-heads for having an opinion. Opinions are like a-holes. Everybody has one, and they are almost always full of sh^t.

All my friends that are into cars are die hard chevy fans. They all know of my plans of putting the 400 pontiac motor under the hood of my third gen T/A. They all frown at the idea and say its a stupid one. But we will see how stupid it is when im pushing 400 to the flywheel with a single carb in a 3250 pound vehicle (with me in it). Dont get me wrong SBC IMO is a bad mofo but i have a feeling it might be hard for one to keep up with me by the time all is said and done. If one does keep up with it, i would bet they have spent WAY more on it than i have on mine. To the tune of several thousand.

If one does keep up with it, i would bet they have spent WAY more on it than i have on mine. To the tune of several thousand.
Don't bet the farm on it. You do know what all would be involved in putting a poncho motor into a 3rd gen, right?
First, you'd need a new trans because the chevy and Pontiac bolt pattern is different. After that would be a custom fabricated trans crossmenber and mount. Next all new engine mounts. Then there is the physical size of the Pontiac engines...they all have the same external dimensions of a chevy big block. you'll need to "massage" the firewall, relocate some items and do away with the wiper motor. Headers would have to be custom fabricated along with the entire exhaust.
Hate to say it, but that is just the "big" stuff. It is going to cost a small fortune to do the transplant, not to mention all of the man hours involved. If you have the time, money and resources to do the transplant, go for it. But don't think it will be cheap or easy.

Dude, you dont have to do all that... this forum had a member about a year ago who HAD a third gen with a 400. The only problems he ran into is he had to get motor mounts, an oil filter relocator, and you have to cut a hole in your hood for the ALT, carb, and fan. I will run an electric fan and also cut out a bigger hole for a radiator. SO yeah i WOULD bet the farm on it actually...

Here in the city we have a place called "american camaro and firebird". One of the employees has a third gen camaro with a 455 under the hood. The difficulties on doing this are less than you are thinking. morley. This has already been done before. Orginally when the third gen firebirds were being designed, it was originally planned for a 301 pontiac engine. Stock pontiac 400 exhaust manifolds allow the exhaust tubes to drop down right behind both lower control arms.

Also, i dont need a trans, and i understand the differences between chevy and pontiac. I already have the 400/400 for it complete. Ive been doing "heres and theres" to it for the past year. Once i go out and get the oil filter relocator kit my dream will become reality.

. Orginally when the third gen firebirds were being designed, it was originally planned for a 301 pontiac engine
Ah, but the 301 is the ONLY pontiac V8 that is considered a "small block". Its dimensions are the same as a SBC.
I hope you are right about fitment because Chevrolet did shoehorn a BBC into a 3rd genand they detailed everything that was needed to get it to fit, and they were able to use the trans and X member that came in the car and the driveshaft. They still had to "work" the firewall, relocate some components and loose the wiper motor. Not to mention, severely beef up the diff.
Good luck with it.
If you come in over 425 hp and under $3300 let me know. That is my output and cost for the engine and related items, including SFC's.

Ah, but the 301 is the ONLY pontiac V8 that is considered a "small block". Its dimensions are the same as a SBC.
I hope you are right about fitment because Chevrolet did shoehorn a BBC into a 3rd genand they detailed everything that was needed to get it to fit, and they were able to use the trans and X member that came in the car and the driveshaft. They still had to "work" the firewall, relocate some components and loose the wiper motor. Not to mention, severely beef up the diff.
Good luck with it.
If you come in over 425 hp and under $3300 let me know. That is my output and cost for the engine and related items, including SFC's.

The wiper motor will be just fine. If you dont believe it give me a couple of days i will snap a pic of one with a 400 pontiac with wiper motor still at home.

The driveshaft will be changed and the transmission crossmember will be double thick and extra support will be added. I plan on changing the front springs and shocks to a decent brand and letting the body fly the way it is except I want to do something else with the rear stabalizer and the torque arm mount will have to be changed too. I will run skinnys on the back so i dont tear up the body or diff. As for the firewall like i said ive already seen a 400 pontiac motor in a third gen bird. I had already planned on pushing my firewall back some and ive already removed the air equip. According to a friend of mine i can probably reposition the motor relative to the bolt holes for the motor mount. Since i plan on running electric fans in front of the radiator and not the original fan this gives me more room to chose where the motor mounts land. Yes i know, moving the motor forward can throw stuff off, but its not like i care about that really. Already considered.

The 400 i have i built up for a woman friend of mine. At the time she was driving the 72' 2 dr hard top catalina 400 i have now. When i first saw the car the engine and transmission were tired and she brought it to me for repair, as im the only person she trust to fix her stuff. I removed both motor and trans and had it rebuilt for her around the year 2001. My actual job was to remove, rebuild and reinstall them for her. I sent the motor to mikes machine shop, and the transmission was rebuilt by Aamco. After the motor came back it was 030 and the 2.11 1.77 heads had been surfaced twice per my request and i had forged flats put in it. The transmission was also rebuilt to standard specs and i had it shift kitted. When it was done it was so beautiful and perfect i made her swear on everything holy that if anything ever happened to the car or she sold it i was the only person who could have it.

A year later, the car was rear ended and considered totalled. She loved the car so much she bought it back from the insurance company even though she couldnt drive it any more. A year after the car sat, a couple tires went flat and the city got on her about the tag being out. She called me and gave me the car as promised for putting some brakes and an injector on her other car, an alero.

I figure i have about 100 bucks in this motor. Actually all i have in it is labor but this to me is the same thing as money.

It runs great all it needs is a different cam and an intake. I have a 70 judge intake for it and when i pull it i will have a better cam put in it. That brings the total to about 400. The car im putting it in you can go out and buy for maybe 500 bucks. I can do my own metal fab and a brand new radiator and the filter relocator is another 200. SO lets see that comes out to around 1100. If i was to spend 3300 it CERTAINLY would have more HP than 425. And much more torque than a SBC. The most important thing to me is what it can get down a 1/4. Every car pontiac ever put a 400 in is much heavier than my car is. Pound for pound its bound to run faster than any original pontiac 400 car by weight alone.

Sorry, im way off topic. The alcohol has worn off and my head hurts so im going to bed.

You guys crack me up, here we have a thread based on a apology in another thread that got folks a little bent out of shape when someone randomly threw it off topic, and it has gone, well, off the topic :disappoin

Jim, have you tried switching the forum style in the lower left hand of the screen? I don't see ads as a mod, so if you wish to animate her, have at it. :lol:

Ok guys, lets keep this on topic please.

Ok, while we're on the topic of apologies I'd like to send my deepest, most heartfelt condolences to eveyone who was on the escalator in Macy's at the Christiana Mall on Sunday at approximately 2:45 pm... my wife made lentil soup and stuffed cabbage and I had seconds and thirds, and I just couldn't help it....

If it makes you feel any better, Earl got a hold of the kids plates and completely polluted the whole house all night.... we're talking gagging-rotten, eyes watering, breath stopping type of pollution. I'll kill the next person who gives him lentils and cabbage... without me knowing it.

Ok, while we're on the topic of apologies I'd like to send my deepest, most heartfelt condolences to eveyone who was on the escalator in Macy's at the Christiana Mall on Sunday at approximately 2:45 pm... my wife made lentil soup and stuffed cabbage and I had seconds and thirds, and I just couldn't help it....

If it makes you feel any better, Earl got a hold of the kids plates and completely polluted the whole house all night.... we're talking gagging-rotten, eyes watering, breath stopping type of pollution. I'll kill the next person who gives him lentils and cabbage... without me knowing it.
That is a good way to keep it on topic. Funny and its an apology. lol. Glad I was not at your house.

Ok guys, lets keep this on topic please.

Yeah sorry...I gots A.D.D.:disappoin

as for being on topic, i feel "sorry" for a lot of people:shakehead