427 Engine Help

ok so i want to bild a 427 and i need a little help. I plan on getting a 351 block from DSS Racing im thinking a level 20 block. the internals im thinking will be from CHP a Street Fighter Pro Street Kit Forged every thing in kit, with a Trick flow intake, 75 or bigger TB, 3 core Rateator, alluminum water pump, i want a manual so ether a T5 with hardened gears or a TKO 600, conected to a 9 inch with or 373 or 410 gears, and the rest in between is just picking up good parts,

Now my question is should i go with AFR 205's or 185's or Trick flow R Series or Twisted Wedge,

Next question would be the cam i would want somthing not to wild but not to small, i would like to be able to idle at like 1,500 RPM, i was told you can idle at that with like .500 of lift is that true, then im woundering with the AFR 205s on the web site it said good from 3500 to 8000 this car is going to be a street car so that is no good. and i want to be able to run on premum pump gas

Last question what do you think my HP will be around just an estamet. i would like to reach at least 450 hp with good streat ability thanks.

Ok, some of the parts you have listed are badly mismatched. The engine would run if you compiled it with these parts, but it would run miserably.

What is your budget? To make 450hp you dont need a "level 20" block and 4340 rotating assembly. Go to the junk yard, grab a 5.8/351w and have the block machined, crank turned .010/.010 or so, and the rods re-done. The crank/rods in the 351w are good for around 600hp, while the block is good for an easy 750 or so in stock form. Now granted this is with a good tune. Also you dont need 427 cubes to make 450hp, the motor will be happier and live longer if you keep it around 357ci. The side-loading of the bigger strokers on the street can lead to early block failure.

Dont be confused by people talking about the stock sbf stuff failing around 500hp, thats the 5.0. The 5.8/351w blocks are much stronger, the crank mains are larger, and the rods just as good. It would be best to get a 351w out of a truck, generally the motors in the trucks had the "football" rods which are the ones you want.

Now, this is all motor no juice no boost correct? So you want to make 450hp n/a, thats a tall order. If I where you I would suggest a set of the CNC ported TW heads, Vic jr intake converted to EFI, and a custom hydro roller cam. Talk to cammotion or similair companies for your camshaft. This setup would put you close to your goal hp, but you would need compression around 10.5 and turn the motor in the higher 6000rpm range. Just be sure your stock crank is renitrided and you have good bolts/studs in the rods/mains and you will be fine.

Just re-read your post. Why the 9"? To be honest you would be better off with a 8.8. The 9" rear would cost more to buy/install then your 8.8 would cost to build. Also the 9" is a huge housing and really takes alot of work to get the IC back like it should be onthe mustangs. It takes special control arms ect to get it right and its not cheap. A properly built 8.8 rear is good for 1,600hp. Why bother with the 9"?

The rear gear ratio will depend on several things. What size rear tire, what rpm will you make the most power at, and what finish line mph are you looking for? Or are you even gonna drag race this car? If its just for the street then I would suggest 3.73:1 gears.

ok see i didnt know the 8.8 could be good for that much, as my budget goes im in the navy and i want to work on the motor in my free time so my budget is pritty endless i know its going to take me a while but ill get it done, i have the car now i need the engine\drive train. i read muscle mustangs and fast fords all the time i seen they bild a 447 or a 457 something like that i cant remember off the top of my head, but they were talking about the angle of the rods and crank or something, but they said mainly that there are worse stock engines that have it worse then the engine they bilt and the hole engine failer wont happen, how much would the michine work and the block from the junk yard be if i got a block and had it done, i was also looking at the level 10 witch is only $600.00, i would like to eventully super charger this bad boy so that is why i would like to get a good block now and not have to upgrade when i wanted to super charge it. what do you think about the hole Idle on a .500 lift cam thing. thanks alot.

Hey pimp daddy, heres a fellow navy guy. Are you east or west coast?

West right now good ol washington. im in C school.

i really was woundering what the michine work would cost, thanks.

Well the idle with that kind of cam does not need to be 1500rpms for any reason. I run an F303 cam in my motor and idle it about 700rpms.
As for machine work it depends what all you want done. I'd have to look at my receipts but I know I have probably $1500 or so in machine work. The guy I use builds race engines for a living and is the best around here as far as I'm concearned. His prices may be a little higher than average but its well worth it to me. He get absolutely everything perfect, tells you everything you need to know about it, keeps everything documented, and at least in my case has offered to help me tune this bad boy as long as I'll take him for a ride. My block was zero decked, torque plate bored/honed .030, lifter bores debured, align honed, crank turned .010/.010, whole rotating assembly balanced and blueprinted. For all my machine work and the assembly of my shortblock + parts I have around $4k in my shortblock, but its good for 750hp+ in N/A form. With me keeping the rpms down to 6000 I'll be pushing 650 or more to the tires with the turbo.
I'm sure DSS & CHP do decent work, because they are still in bussiness, but I have heard horror stories from both companies about their assemblies. Just remember, you get what you pay for.

ok thanks alot, one more question i have a T5 from a 4 banger mustang laying around, would i be able to put those gears that are rated at like 600hp and Torque, in the 4 banger T5 is there a difference in the cases in the 8 and 4 cyliner t5s, thanks.

To be honest I have never pulled a tranny out of a 2.3 mustang, and have never payed attention to the bellhousing area on them. I dont know why but it seems like I have heard people talking abotu putting the stock 4cyl trans behind their sbf v8's. I'm not sure why ford would make the bellhousing bolt pattern the same on the little 2.3 as they did on the larger 5.0/5.8 but I seem to recall hearing that they will bolt up. I know the bellhousing bolt pattern for the 300 I6 is the same as the 5.0/5.8. I would see if it will bolt up first, then call G-Force or whatever companies gears ect you want to go with and ask them if that trans will work. I think you would be better off with a Tremec 3550 though. The T5 is tough for 350ish power but once you start throwing some torque to it and really twisting it hard it will bust. I broke one with a mildly modified 302.

whats the difference between the T5 and the Tremec 3550, how much can they handle, thanks.

The weak link in the T5 is the case. Its thin in design and has a bad tendancy to flex. When the case flexes the gear's mesh changes (less of a bite) and this is where the problems begin. The 3550 has a stronger case, same case as the TKO600, so the 3550 is basically an upgraded T5 with a better case. Although if you want to really beat on the tranny the TKO600 can take more than you can dish at that power level. The 3550 should be good for 500rwhp or so. They have been known to last in the 700rwhp range but those guys didnt power shift them. Basically If I had a 450hp 5spd car then I would probably break a T5 within a month. While the 3550 may o for years, just depends on the clutch you choose. But I would suggest you use the Spec Stage II clutch.

ok thanks for the great info, do you know any good places to get one, i searched yahoo for car parts but i cant find any thing,

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/TR-3550.asp
This came up in a quick search. You can try going to the corral.net and seeing whats for sale in the classifieds. Just watch out for scammers and such, kinda like you would on ebay. Also you can go to the tech forums at the corral and they can help you figure out if you need a different trans by chance. They may say the T5 will handle it, but if you beat on it then it wont handle it. I bought my C4 off the corral if that helps any.

what do you think about the T56 i found that its cheaper then the TKO 600 and 500

Before you make a purchase like this you need to look at what its going to take to install it. Join corral.net and do some research. Reading thrue the archives of tech discussions will teach you more than just asking questions. If I remember correctly there are some difficulties in swapping the T56 into the foxbody cars. Seems like you have to modify the trans tunnel and possibly have a hard time routing the exhaust. But this could be for the 65-66 cars, I cant remember for sure. I know its not great for this forum for me to send you to another forum but at the same time most of your questions are already answered over there. If you have a hard time finding the info you are looking for over there just let me know and I'll see what I can dig up for you.

ok thanks alot.

Another one of these threads....:rofl:

buy a bb 427 :naughty:

i was thinking about the bb but i dont know.

Another one of these threads....:rofl:
LOL I know what ya mean. I'm gonna, or I'm building, or what if I...
Then nothing ever happens. But I figure if I advise people when they are in the dreaming/planning stage then they will hopefully one day be able to build a motor with a good merge of parts. For instance who is gonna run a .750+ lift 280* @ .050 solid roller with some GT40's... ya know what I mean? Sure it would go thrue all 4 cycles and physically run (with alot of head work of course), but it would run like shit.

You are gonna be changing a few things to run the 9.5" deck block in a fox body, but to stuff an FE in there is a whole other ball game. You will be useing special mounts, headers, acc brackets, ect. Where as with the windsor you can use the stock motor mounts, swap headers, reuse the stock acc's & bracketry, and buy a crank pulley spacer. There are several things I'm forgetting on the FE swap, but its one that I've never done. I'm sure you could find some info on the swap with google though.

Wow you seem to know your stuff

Wow you seem to know your stuff

Thanks!
I did the same thing he is doing before I actually started buying parts ect. I ran different combos buy many people who have been there and done that. I wanted to find out exactly what will and what wont work from those guys before I made a costly mistake that they may have been able to prevent had I asked the questions. But now that I have built several motors, built a couple cars, ect ect, I figure if I can help get people going in the right direction on their cars then maybe they will do the same for someone else on down the road. I know this hobby/sport is fun, addictive, and EXPENSIVE! Mistakes are often costly when dealing with cars, and nobody wants to waste money.

exactly, that is what im saying, im some what a noob i guess, ive ripped out an engine and put a new cobra 302 from a shelby cobra in and a new trans and hole new front suppestion, but now i would like to start bilding a new motor and ive never bilt a motor befor so im asking question so i dont fuck it up and wast my mony, thanks alot again guys, heres the link to my car, tell me what you guys think,

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=214437239&dealer_id=59150755&car_year=1990&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=FORD&transmission=&model=MUST&distance=25&make2=&address=60481&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=10000&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=0&body_code=0&end_year=1990&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1990&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=0

and it doesnt have a blower on it, i was going to put one on so i got the scoop and i just put it on, i thought it looked cool. lol

Shelby America has a Aluminum 427 that you can buy.

i dont want to buy one i want to bild one.

I know you want to build your own motor. But there are some very specific things to be done when building a motor. You cant just bolt everything together and be done. To be honest with you this would be your best bet: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WRL%2D102220&autoview=sku
Then you could just add the heads, cam, intake of your choice. Plus, when you get ready for a blower/turbo/ or nitrous the block and internals will be able to handle more than you can throw at them. It will save you from having to upgrade later. I wish this is what I had done.

ic those man o war blocks are real nice. i was also thinking of starting with, useing the motor i have now and getting it bord and shit, then stroking it out with a 347 kit, just as my first engine bild you know it wont be that much money stroker kit 1,000 heads 1,300 cam 150 then machine work, i think thats what i might do just for a experence. you know.

Great Article.... Now focus on what he is saying on the first few paragraphs.

Then ingest the rest:

http://www.hardcore50.com/Articles/Erik_Koenig/Engine_Building_101.htm

i dont want to buy one i want to bild one.It comes in peices. It uses the same block you want to use it's all mapped out so you don't have to waste time thinking about Valve Train combo's.

ic those man o war blocks are real nice. i was also thinking of starting with, useing the motor i have now and getting it bord and shit, then stroking it out with a 347 kit, just as my first engine bild you know it wont be that much money stroker kit 1,000 heads 1,300 cam 150 then machine work, i think thats what i might do just for a experence. you know.

Thats some sound thinking.

does the 347 sound a little better bild for a first timer,