97 Lesabre trans convertor going bad?

I recently bought a 97 Lesabre Limited with 206,000 miles that was somewhat negelected but yet a survivor. When I looked at the car the motor would not turn over (I suspected it was hydralocked) and I picked it up for $300.00. When I got home, I pumped the coolant out of the cylinders, shot some oil in them and did get it running eventually. Since then I've done the following: new intake plenum, oil change, tranny flush and filter, fresh Dextron coolant after home flush with Prestone flush kit, new top O2 sensor, new As Delco iridium plugs and AC Delco wires, new fuel filter, blew out air filter (not dirty)
All the fluids were quite dirty, maintenance was probably done way beyond recommended intervals.

I have been driving the car to work on a regular basis trying to get it ready for sale, trying to make a few bucks on this one. By the way, the motor is strong, yes strong after all it went through! A problem I am having is when the car shifts into overdrive lets say at 55mph everything is good, then all of the sudden, it sounds like the transmission shifts out of overdrive. I see the tach increase by about 200 rpm, I feel a shudder, and then it goes back into overdrive. The car will do this regularly at cruising speed with average load and I suspect the torque convertor lock up is disengaging and re-engaging. Also, my "traction off" light is on all the time and pushing the traction button on the dash does not turn the light off. Also, my antilock brakes are not working.

The transmission has a GM remanufatured sticker on it so I know this was replaced by a dealer at some point. The person I bought the car from only knew how to drive it, she was useless for any information.

I hate guessing and know I will probably end up at a local garage for some tests but want to see if I am overlooking something simple.

Any help would be appreciated.

I have searched the forums but have not found the answer I am looking for.

I have heard something very similar to this referred to as a "chuggle" there is the TCC valve that gets old or clogged or something and leaks... Perhaps an additive will swell the thing till its sold..

The Traction ABS has a often popular problem of a wheel sensor. You can bug the pins to the ABS connector and see if all the wheels show a circuit. There is forum help posted with pin outs that may work on your vehicle. Otherwise need to check them. You could take it and have a ABS/diagnostic ran on it at a brake shop $85.. they will tell you what it is..
If one is open, then check the wiring at the wheel sensor connector and if its the wheel its a hub bearing/sensor replacement.. $100, or get one from a junk yard but they are tough to get out and usually destroyed in the process.



Good Luck

Thanks for the reply. I don't know what "bug the pins to the ABS connector" means when referring to the wheel sensors, can you elaborate.

Sure..Bugging .. is probing with a meter. You use a Digital Ohm meter and with its two wires or probes. You touch them to the connectors wires that are at or in the ABS main connection cable pins. Basically you are testing the circuit to see if it is complete between those two points.

EXAMPLE : IF The DVOM meter's two wires or probes they call them, are touched to each other, the meter would tell you you have a short or complete circuit, out one probe wire to the tip, across to the other tip and back to the meter. You can touch both these probes to any metal at the same time and see if they show a complete circuit, like your front bumper to your rear bumper.
You can extend this concept process to touch the probe to pins in the connector and see if you have a somewhat complete circuit from one of those connections pins out to the wheels and back to the other connector pin.
A good sensor would read something. A bad one wouldnt read anything and the meter would look the same as if you disconnected the probes from anything and held them in the air.

There are other possibilities such as a partially bad sensor but this would require a ABS diagnostic machine.


At the connector in your car the pins are.

Pin 8 to pin 24 Left front speed sensor
Pin 9 to pin 25 Right front speed sensor
Pin 10 to pin 26 Left rear speed sensor
Pin 11 to pin 27 Right rear speed sensor


Good Luck

Traction control is working now, here is what I found.

First, I went through all the fuses in the car. I found a 40 amp fuse on the firewall in the engine bay for the ABS that was blown, so I replaced it (it was one of those BIG fuses). I then started the car and the traction light went out, put car in drive, hit the gas on icy driveway, and traction control is now working. I then tried the ABS and as soon as I tried to lock up the brakes the traction control light came on again and no anti-lock brakes. Again found same fuse blown.

Second, this is where I went against good mechanic practices and stuck a BIGGER FUSE it its place, (went from a 40 to a 50 amp). Took it back out on the icy driveway and hit the gas. Traction control working again now so I pulled up on a incline in the driveway and just sat and spun the fronts and allowed the traction control to work for about 1-2 minutes, ( I did take some breaks in that 1-2- minute period). Now, I took off down the drive and hit the brakes hard, anti-locks working beautifully now. Put 40 amp fuse back in and all is well, hope I am not back to square one tomorrow:grinyes:

The traction control/anti-lock brakes must all be related to the abs motor that was likely out of service for some time. I think it needed a good jolt from the bigger fuse to get it going and then the workout I gave it kept it going. If it continues to work then I guess it is fixed, if it goes back to a blown fuse in the near future then maybe the electric ABS motor is bad.

Maybe you should exercise your vehicle from time to time just to keep things working like running the A/C in the winter, pushing the brakes hard to make the anti-locks work and so on. If components sit idle they go bad, what to you think?

Still have the shudder problem at cruising speed. Maybe I will try a transmission fluid additive as suggested, any recommendation on what to buy? By the way, I wanted to thank Bassasasin for all your replies, sounds like you have a lot of experience.

Wow thanks... I just beat that horse on my car..

Would like to mention my traction light was comming on my 94' Park..sometimes right after I start the car and on for the whole drive.. and next time or not would not be lighted.. We got icy streets finally and I did the same as you finding a icy spot on my path and spun up to hear the traction kick in and just played with it.. not knowing at the time just having fun cause I knew it was working.. Now it never lights.. only been about 3 weeks.. used to come on every other trip or more.. Hope WE are right.. Didnt know I had traction system on my LeSabre.. perhaps I dont..

THanks for your mentioning that.. now I have more confidence in my car.

Did you look up CHUGGLE. If its the transmission, Ive heard changing the oil and filter sometimes makes it go away for a while but come back .. the additive idea I think is better with an oil change first..

I saw a LeSabre that I could have done what your doing to that one..
Mine with 204k miles has a hydrolic lifter noise till its hot.. additives didnt help. I used to flush the motor oil out with Bartles Mystery Oil to fix that, but didnt work this time..

Keep em' Wheelin'

OH ya P.S. after re-read. I think the AC works on defrost during the winter to dry out the air..
And the shudder could be allignment, loose tie rod ends or the differential.. I think...anyway, an additive may help there too.. Differential problems heat up the tranny. Usually caused by folks driving with two size tires or one low pressure tire for a long time. I saw a newer Buick 99' and they are sensing low tires and reporting by wheel sensor speeds not lining up .. Good to know.

The transmission on my '97 has a "fishbite" when it is hot out and the tcc is locked in. It happens when cruising and almost feels like a miss. The way I understand it is that there is a valve control body in the transmission that the seals leak back in when the fluid is good and hot causing the "fishbite". If it gets really bad in the summer, I flip a switch I rigged up to the tcc. It applies power to the tcc and forces it to remain unlocked, so there is no "fishbite". I have driven it this way for almost 100,000 miles.

I have used Lucas automatic transmission additive and Slick 50 in it. The original engine and transmission are hanging in there and it is about to turn over 170,000 miles.

Wow.. I cut my TCC wire and the transmission went out completely wouldnt hold a gear from the git go.
I put it back and it was back to normal.. I was just testing that connection to see what it connected..
I didnt know it needed power applied..
What voltage??? Is it 5V or 12?


Keep em' wheelin'

It is 12 volts applied to keep the tcc locked out. It runs about the same locked in or locked out. The cruising rpms are slightly higher. Took a while to figure out what it was. Kept thinking it was a problem with the engine, but there were no codes. Finally, had a test lamp hooked to the tcc circuit and noticed the"fishbite" only happened once the light was off. Could see exactly when the tcc locked in that way. Applied 12 volts constant and it remains unlocked-no "fishbite". It will cause the check engine light to come on though-after reaching the speed where the tcc is to lock-in (around 40-45 mph). I flip the switch off when I shut it off and the check engine light clears after the next start-up.

Interesting, good to know.


Thanks

Out of all these tranny problems are any of you getting a check engine light?
My 1997 Lesabre with 115,000 miles got a check engine light. When I took it for a diagnosis today the code that came up was p1870-transaxle component slipping. I was referred to a transmission shop. I don't even feel anything wrong with my transmission, I just wanted to clear the check light before I went to get it smogged.

Does anyone have any experience with this code and what it might mean? I'm afraid no matter what it is the tranny shop is going to want a lot of money.

Traction control is working now, here is what I found.

First, I went through all the fuses in the car. I found a 40 amp fuse on the firewall in the engine bay for the ABS that was blown, so I replaced it (it was one of those BIG fuses).
Second, this is where I went against good mechanic practices and stuck a BIGGER FUSE it its place, (went from a 40 to a 50 amp).

I wonder if the ABS motor was stuck and an extra 10 amps gave it enough power to break itself loose???

I would add some Lucas automatic transmission additive, clear the code and hope it doesn't come back. I am pretty sure I have had that code at one point, last summer. I thought it was possibly because the fluid could have been a little low. My transmission pan drips some and I have to add fluid now and then. I had driven the car fairly hard on a road trip to the mountains and that code appeared. Still runs fine though.

I would add some Lucas automatic transmission additive, clear the code and hope it doesn't come back.


How does one clear the code?

Nevermind. I just read on another thread to disconnect the battery for 20 sec.

Fm B Assasasin
Bugging .. is probing with a meter
Thank you...

Just wanted to say that the problem is fixed and my car is running awesome with 211,000 miles. I pulled the trans and replaced the TCC valve with a part from SONNAX. I also bought a book and a gasket kit and tore the trans down, cleaned, and reassembled. I replaced the converter and the problem is gone. Cost me under $200.00. Not an easy job. I think I could have gotten away with only the TCC valve, but wanted to see the trans internals while it was out. And by the way, I am a do it yourself mechanic that was self taught, I like tearing things apart.