Anti-American Sentiment
G-ealousy
09-25-2002, 02:54 PM
This is for all you non-American people out there. I'm just a guy, a kid really, who's 23 and lives in Denver, Colorado, with his dog, and his girlfriend, in a little apartment.... Right here in America... I'm posting this cause I really do feel like I relate to you all, no matter what country we're from, and it sucks, cause all I keep hearing on our news is that so many people are against us. That there is so much anti-American sentiment out there, that it's even getting dangerous to go to Europe. Is this true? Does everybody hate America? Americans? Maybe not you, but your families? Parents? Friends? Older Siblings? Is there a lot of you guys out there, that just can't stand a kid like me in your Pub? At your movie theatre? I find it odd, and scary that no one's got our back! I hear the English stepping up, but that their citizens don't agree with the choice... Why? And why does it seem they're the only ones? We were attacked on our own soil, and yet the popular view seems to be that America is the enemy here. I understand that our government is faulty... 50% of Americans, probably more, don't agree with or like the way our government is ran. Our foreign policy isn't very good, for a country that's so great. But, it's still our government. And we are still Americans. And we're still good people, Whether we agree with our President or not. But, it seems like there are a lot of people in the world that hold lone Americans, commoners like you or I, responsible. Top that, they then have the need to let it be known to any American that passes them? I just want some honest answers here. Even if you don't have any problems with Americans, I'd still like to hear that too. Actually, I'd like to hear that more. Cause right now, I'm feeling a little shaky when it comes to world views. It's starting to seem a little like nobody's friends out there, and it's making me a little sad, and even more, a little mad...
Steel
09-25-2002, 03:11 PM
can't expect everyone to like us, really. Dunno what else to say. Not a reason to hate other countries, but don't let it bug you that some don't like us.
S Brake
09-25-2002, 03:15 PM
I like us!:ylsuper
DaFoo
09-25-2002, 04:17 PM
They "hate" us because were rich. Just like you hate the kid with the Porsche, unless you are that faggot. It's like Mexicans, Blacks, and Arabs. A lot of Americans don't like them, but they rarely "kill" them because of it. Are you stupid enough to think that if you're in a pub in England, you're going to get your ass kicked? Come on! I make fun of all the other countries all the time, like British people's bad teeth, but when I actually meet them, it's fascinating. Who cares if others don't like you? No one likes the man at the top. As you travel to other countries, you will notice that it's not as much of a hate (unless your in Pakistan which is a complete fucking shit hole anyway), as it is a joke about your ethnicity. (example: Those stupid-French people are such assholes, I hope they all die in a car wreck tonight!)
YogsVR4
09-25-2002, 04:23 PM
Other then belonging in the politics forum, does it really matter a whole lot what other people think? It doesnt seem to effect Canada, N. Korea or anyone else when others say they dont like them. Most of the time when you hear that a country "doesn't like us" its the government that doesn't and not the people. We can debate our foreign policy in another thread (mainly because I disagree with the earlier assessment).
But when push comes to shove, I dont do things based on the opinions of others. I do what I feel is right and thats how I want my leaders to be. If I dont agree with them thats fine and I'll vote for the other guy when the time comes. But dont base decisions on what you percieve to be popular opinion.
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But when push comes to shove, I dont do things based on the opinions of others. I do what I feel is right and thats how I want my leaders to be. If I dont agree with them thats fine and I'll vote for the other guy when the time comes. But dont base decisions on what you percieve to be popular opinion.
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ci5ic
09-25-2002, 06:31 PM
They don't hate us because we're rich. They hate us because of our foriegn policy and our cultural export. We are international bullies, and we stick our political nose where (according to some) it doesn't belong. We seem to think that we are the worlds police, and if we percieve something to be against OUR beliefs, that we have to do something about it... Basically all this does is force our beliefs/culture on other nations, which is why they hate us. They have their OWN cultures and religions, and who the fuck are WE to come in and change that? Most of our foriegn policy is dictated by the greed of our nation.
They hate us because we have to ask why they hate us. It's because the citizens of this country are oblivious to what occurs outside our geographical boundaries unless we hear a snippet about it on the news.
Wake up and smell the coffee! Sure this is a great nation to live in because it's free and all that, but you have to understand that not everything our government does is right. We have a tendency to believe our own propaganda. Our government tells us that what they are doing is "right", and we take it for gospel.
They hate us because we have to ask why they hate us. It's because the citizens of this country are oblivious to what occurs outside our geographical boundaries unless we hear a snippet about it on the news.
Wake up and smell the coffee! Sure this is a great nation to live in because it's free and all that, but you have to understand that not everything our government does is right. We have a tendency to believe our own propaganda. Our government tells us that what they are doing is "right", and we take it for gospel.
Moppie
09-25-2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by ci5ic
They hate us because we have to ask why they hate us. It's because the citizens of this country are oblivious to what occurs outside our geographical boundaries unless we hear a snippet about it on the news.
Wake up and smell the coffee! Sure this is a great nation to live in because it's free and all that, but you have to understand that not everything our government does is right. We have a tendency to believe our own propaganda. Our government tells us that what they are doing is "right", and we take it for gospel.
That pretty much sums a lot of it up rather nicely.
But on that note I am one of the most Anti American people you will ever have the pleasure or dis-pleasure of meeting.
However I dont have a problem with Americans. Most of the ones I have meet have been very nice, very friendly people. Iv meet the odd creep, but there are creeps in every society, and they certianly don't reflect the generaly good natured attitude of most Americans.
What I have a problem with is American Culture, and Political views. Something quite seperate from an Individual American.
Heres a classic example.
I was watching the ABC news last night (we get it here at midnight) and there was a huge long story about the women who beat her child in a shopping mall car park. It domoniated the first half of the programe, and there were all sorts of profesinals giving thier views on what happened, and snipits of an interview with the mother. As far as the US media is concerned this is the most important thing happening in the world.
But while this kid was being spanked, 30 ppl where shot to death in an Indian temple. 30 inocent ppl lost thier lives, 30 fammilies lost someone they loved, and 30 sets of friends lost someone they loved.
The ABC gave it a 30sec blurb. That was it.
The reasons why are long and complex, and a lot of it has to do with Cultrual relativisim, and Americans obsession with comsumerism, but I won't go into it here, I dont have the space or the time.
However many of the reasons are well justified, the American News Media is certianly not the only ones guilty of it. The BBC is just as guilty, as is every other profit making news agency in the world.
However bacasue the American News Media is the dominate source of world news, and is broadcast to pretty much every nation on earth, yet becasue of its source is very America biased the world gets a very Biased view of America.
If more US based News agencys bothered to take note of events occuring on a more global scale, and other countrys media stoped buying US sourced news stories becasue there cheaper than gathering thier own local news, then a lot of the Anti American sentiment would be quenched.
But that is sadly only half the problem.
The other half is the very simple and clear fact that President bush and his oil owning war monger croonies want to take over the world.
While the US population stand quitely by and let them, and even offer them surrport.
From the perspective of a nation that is not interested in the US having complete control of a Major oil producing nation, and therefore a strong stratigic base in the middle east then this is a very very bad thing.
However G-ealousy if I meet you in a bar here in NZ, then you would have nothing to fear other than the good honest Kiwi beer I would place in frount of you. The same goes for all the other Yanks who frequent these forums.
They hate us because we have to ask why they hate us. It's because the citizens of this country are oblivious to what occurs outside our geographical boundaries unless we hear a snippet about it on the news.
Wake up and smell the coffee! Sure this is a great nation to live in because it's free and all that, but you have to understand that not everything our government does is right. We have a tendency to believe our own propaganda. Our government tells us that what they are doing is "right", and we take it for gospel.
That pretty much sums a lot of it up rather nicely.
But on that note I am one of the most Anti American people you will ever have the pleasure or dis-pleasure of meeting.
However I dont have a problem with Americans. Most of the ones I have meet have been very nice, very friendly people. Iv meet the odd creep, but there are creeps in every society, and they certianly don't reflect the generaly good natured attitude of most Americans.
What I have a problem with is American Culture, and Political views. Something quite seperate from an Individual American.
Heres a classic example.
I was watching the ABC news last night (we get it here at midnight) and there was a huge long story about the women who beat her child in a shopping mall car park. It domoniated the first half of the programe, and there were all sorts of profesinals giving thier views on what happened, and snipits of an interview with the mother. As far as the US media is concerned this is the most important thing happening in the world.
But while this kid was being spanked, 30 ppl where shot to death in an Indian temple. 30 inocent ppl lost thier lives, 30 fammilies lost someone they loved, and 30 sets of friends lost someone they loved.
The ABC gave it a 30sec blurb. That was it.
The reasons why are long and complex, and a lot of it has to do with Cultrual relativisim, and Americans obsession with comsumerism, but I won't go into it here, I dont have the space or the time.
However many of the reasons are well justified, the American News Media is certianly not the only ones guilty of it. The BBC is just as guilty, as is every other profit making news agency in the world.
However bacasue the American News Media is the dominate source of world news, and is broadcast to pretty much every nation on earth, yet becasue of its source is very America biased the world gets a very Biased view of America.
If more US based News agencys bothered to take note of events occuring on a more global scale, and other countrys media stoped buying US sourced news stories becasue there cheaper than gathering thier own local news, then a lot of the Anti American sentiment would be quenched.
But that is sadly only half the problem.
The other half is the very simple and clear fact that President bush and his oil owning war monger croonies want to take over the world.
While the US population stand quitely by and let them, and even offer them surrport.
From the perspective of a nation that is not interested in the US having complete control of a Major oil producing nation, and therefore a strong stratigic base in the middle east then this is a very very bad thing.
However G-ealousy if I meet you in a bar here in NZ, then you would have nothing to fear other than the good honest Kiwi beer I would place in frount of you. The same goes for all the other Yanks who frequent these forums.
YogsVR4
09-25-2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Moppie
But that is sadly only half the problem.
The other half is the very simple and clear fact that President bush and his oil owning war monger croonies want to take over the world.
While the US population stand quitely by and let them, and even offer them surrport.
From the perspective of a nation that is not interested in the US having complete control of a Major oil producing nation, and therefore a strong stratigic base in the middle east then this is a very very bad thing.
Once again we see the Anti-American line that Bush and buddies are war mongers. Typical. All I hear is how the propoganda machine in the US is doing this or that and "how awful" that is. Yet, this drivel seems to seap into people that because they dont agree with something that its somehow evil and out to control the world. Thats boarderline stupidity.
There is true evil in the world. Our government isn't one of them.
I'll state a fact again. The US could have and could now control the world right now if that were what we really wanted. Somehow thats lost on all the people out there that we are NOT doing that. Do we exert influence. You bet. So does everyone else. Its just that we have a lot of things other countries want so our opinion means more. Liechtenstein certainly has their opinion on what the folks in NZ should be doing. You guys listening down there? Probably not. Heck, most wont even know where that country is.
When your at the top of the food chain, either people are trying their damnedness to buddy up or tear you down to their level.
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But that is sadly only half the problem.
The other half is the very simple and clear fact that President bush and his oil owning war monger croonies want to take over the world.
While the US population stand quitely by and let them, and even offer them surrport.
From the perspective of a nation that is not interested in the US having complete control of a Major oil producing nation, and therefore a strong stratigic base in the middle east then this is a very very bad thing.
Once again we see the Anti-American line that Bush and buddies are war mongers. Typical. All I hear is how the propoganda machine in the US is doing this or that and "how awful" that is. Yet, this drivel seems to seap into people that because they dont agree with something that its somehow evil and out to control the world. Thats boarderline stupidity.
There is true evil in the world. Our government isn't one of them.
I'll state a fact again. The US could have and could now control the world right now if that were what we really wanted. Somehow thats lost on all the people out there that we are NOT doing that. Do we exert influence. You bet. So does everyone else. Its just that we have a lot of things other countries want so our opinion means more. Liechtenstein certainly has their opinion on what the folks in NZ should be doing. You guys listening down there? Probably not. Heck, most wont even know where that country is.
When your at the top of the food chain, either people are trying their damnedness to buddy up or tear you down to their level.
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Oz
09-26-2002, 12:11 AM
Opinion from Australia:
Yes there is a lot of anti-America sentiment around in the community. For the simple reason - we're over it. You have such an in-your face, all conquering, all dominating culture that many countries are just feeling smothered. We have been bombarded with the 'american' way of life for 30 years+ now. That is the primary complaint. The secondary one is the whole convaluted reasoning behind the US led attack on Iraq. Anyone who can't see it's about oil needs their head read. It's all just bullshit. What annoys me even more is the fact that all Australian politicians just bend over and kiss when Bush tells him too. There is more, but I'll let all of that get commented on.
Yes there is a lot of anti-America sentiment around in the community. For the simple reason - we're over it. You have such an in-your face, all conquering, all dominating culture that many countries are just feeling smothered. We have been bombarded with the 'american' way of life for 30 years+ now. That is the primary complaint. The secondary one is the whole convaluted reasoning behind the US led attack on Iraq. Anyone who can't see it's about oil needs their head read. It's all just bullshit. What annoys me even more is the fact that all Australian politicians just bend over and kiss when Bush tells him too. There is more, but I'll let all of that get commented on.
DaFoo
09-26-2002, 01:05 AM
I'm not talking about the people we are fighting Ci5iC. I am talking about countries like Mexico and others. It boils down to us having money. If we were in poverty and had a brash government such as Chili, Uganda, or Paraguay, no one would give a rats ass what we said. Their governments rarely make good decisions, but because they are not a power (you need money for power), we don't care if they use torture etc. But if it were Britian! Now wait, you can't torture! They can admit it or not, but that's the bottom line in places other than Iraq and the such (and even there I still think that it plays a big role).
NSX-R-SSJ20K
09-26-2002, 07:35 AM
I like America thats why i is moving back there. I'm English/Swedish nationality
"there's two things i can't stand:
one of thems intolerance to other cultures!
------What's the second? -----------
The Dutch can't stand em. " Michael Cain as Austin Powers Fasher .......
"there's two things i can't stand:
one of thems intolerance to other cultures!
------What's the second? -----------
The Dutch can't stand em. " Michael Cain as Austin Powers Fasher .......
NSX-R-SSJ20K
09-26-2002, 07:40 AM
and no matter what anyone says about america they are wrong because they stereotype what you way say might represent some people but not all and that is why most of the world is ignorant and thats what cause's problems! I was in Plano when September 11th happened and some of my friends wanted to join the army as soon as it came up and i haven't known anyone else who would consider such a thing.... i for instance have no pride in my country just my football team and thats it. ENGLAND IS GONNA WIN THE NEXT WORLD CUP
Also i can't stand it when people whine about civics i gotta put up with these french cars with 1.1 liter engines a civic is like a god send compared to these piles of poop
Also i can't stand it when people whine about civics i gotta put up with these french cars with 1.1 liter engines a civic is like a god send compared to these piles of poop
YogsVR4
09-26-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by ozriceboy
Opinion from Australia:
Yes there is a lot of anti-America sentiment around in the community. For the simple reason - we're over it. You have such an in-your face, all conquering, all dominating culture that many countries are just feeling smothered. We have been bombarded with the 'american' way of life for 30 years+ now. That is the primary complaint. The secondary one is the whole convaluted reasoning behind the US led attack on Iraq. Anyone who can't see it's about oil needs their head read. It's all just bullshit. What annoys me even more is the fact that all Australian politicians just bend over and kiss when Bush tells him too. There is more, but I'll let all of that get commented on.
You bring up a good point about being bombarded with American culture. If you dont like it that is. However, whos fault is that? Turn off the television. Dont buy products that we make or design. Dont travel here and dont let our people there. Quit making our country to be the scapegoat for everything you percieve as wrong with your community (I realize you haven't claimed its responsible for everything).
As for the attack on Iraq. History is repeating itself. Does the name Chamberlain mean anything to anyone?!?
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Opinion from Australia:
Yes there is a lot of anti-America sentiment around in the community. For the simple reason - we're over it. You have such an in-your face, all conquering, all dominating culture that many countries are just feeling smothered. We have been bombarded with the 'american' way of life for 30 years+ now. That is the primary complaint. The secondary one is the whole convaluted reasoning behind the US led attack on Iraq. Anyone who can't see it's about oil needs their head read. It's all just bullshit. What annoys me even more is the fact that all Australian politicians just bend over and kiss when Bush tells him too. There is more, but I'll let all of that get commented on.
You bring up a good point about being bombarded with American culture. If you dont like it that is. However, whos fault is that? Turn off the television. Dont buy products that we make or design. Dont travel here and dont let our people there. Quit making our country to be the scapegoat for everything you percieve as wrong with your community (I realize you haven't claimed its responsible for everything).
As for the attack on Iraq. History is repeating itself. Does the name Chamberlain mean anything to anyone?!?
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NSX-R-SSJ20K
09-26-2002, 10:47 AM
yes that pussy they he was mainly to blame for letting hitler take over so many places his stance of pasifiscm let that bum hitler run riot then they had a serious problem to deal with
Altho he did think Hitler was doing well with his country or some shit so he admired him - if you want to let Sadam Hussain run riot fine as for me i think he needs to be removed and i agree with the leading defector that it needs to be Hussains people who take back the country wouldn't that be better? altho i dunno how on earth anyone whould go about that.
Altho he did think Hitler was doing well with his country or some shit so he admired him - if you want to let Sadam Hussain run riot fine as for me i think he needs to be removed and i agree with the leading defector that it needs to be Hussains people who take back the country wouldn't that be better? altho i dunno how on earth anyone whould go about that.
taranaki
09-26-2002, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
As for the attack on Iraq. History is repeating itself. Does the name Chamberlain mean anything to anyone?!?
You could just as easily argue that history has done a back flip....When the Iraqis were at war with Iran,and also fighting a civil war(using weapons of mass destruction)against the Kurdish people,which major western super-power was providing arms,expertise and funding to the Iraqis?
Yup...Uncle Sam.
And for the record,Chamberlain dithered while Hitler invaded other countries.Iraq hasn't invaded anywhere for years.
As for the attack on Iraq. History is repeating itself. Does the name Chamberlain mean anything to anyone?!?
You could just as easily argue that history has done a back flip....When the Iraqis were at war with Iran,and also fighting a civil war(using weapons of mass destruction)against the Kurdish people,which major western super-power was providing arms,expertise and funding to the Iraqis?
Yup...Uncle Sam.
And for the record,Chamberlain dithered while Hitler invaded other countries.Iraq hasn't invaded anywhere for years.
taranaki
09-26-2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
As for the attack on Iraq. History is repeating itself. Does the name Chamberlain mean anything to anyone?!?
You could just as easily argue that history has done a back flip....When the Iraqis were at war with Iran,and also fighting a civil war(using weapons of mass destruction)against the Kurdish people,which major western super-power was providing arms,expertise and funding to the Iraqis?
Yup...Uncle Sam.
As for the attack on Iraq. History is repeating itself. Does the name Chamberlain mean anything to anyone?!?
You could just as easily argue that history has done a back flip....When the Iraqis were at war with Iran,and also fighting a civil war(using weapons of mass destruction)against the Kurdish people,which major western super-power was providing arms,expertise and funding to the Iraqis?
Yup...Uncle Sam.
YogsVR4
09-26-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by taranaki
You could just as easily argue that history has done a back flip....When the Iraqis were at war with Iran,and also fighting a civil war(using weapons of mass destruction)against the Kurdish people,which major western super-power was providing arms,expertise and funding to the Iraqis?
Yup...Uncle Sam.
Yes. That was a mistake. But that has nothing to do with now. The primary role of government is to protect its people. Saddam is willing to give weapons to people (or do it himself if hes able) to kill our citizens. That has to be stopped. Nobody with a concious wants to see anyone (Kurds in you example) killed, its a whole different thing when its your own that may be killed. Iran kidnapped and killed Americans, so support went to Iraq. I didn't like it, but its the truth.
I dont see where this is a back flip. How is that possible? The fact the Russia had it in for all western governments means we should still be in a cold war with them? History is full of times where enemies became allies and vice-versa.
But - I guess it would be a terrible thing to let the Iraqi people elect a leader. Wait, I forgot, its the middle east where only the awful and evil Isreal allows their people to have a voice in their government. Shoot. We should believe Saddam. I'm sure that after he kicked out the inspectors last time he faithfully went about stopping his nuclear research. It is good of everyone to believe him first. He's shown such concern for the rest of the world. Especially the comment about how he wants to be remember by history as the man who destroyed Isreal. Definatly want to be on his side. :rolleyes:
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You could just as easily argue that history has done a back flip....When the Iraqis were at war with Iran,and also fighting a civil war(using weapons of mass destruction)against the Kurdish people,which major western super-power was providing arms,expertise and funding to the Iraqis?
Yup...Uncle Sam.
Yes. That was a mistake. But that has nothing to do with now. The primary role of government is to protect its people. Saddam is willing to give weapons to people (or do it himself if hes able) to kill our citizens. That has to be stopped. Nobody with a concious wants to see anyone (Kurds in you example) killed, its a whole different thing when its your own that may be killed. Iran kidnapped and killed Americans, so support went to Iraq. I didn't like it, but its the truth.
I dont see where this is a back flip. How is that possible? The fact the Russia had it in for all western governments means we should still be in a cold war with them? History is full of times where enemies became allies and vice-versa.
But - I guess it would be a terrible thing to let the Iraqi people elect a leader. Wait, I forgot, its the middle east where only the awful and evil Isreal allows their people to have a voice in their government. Shoot. We should believe Saddam. I'm sure that after he kicked out the inspectors last time he faithfully went about stopping his nuclear research. It is good of everyone to believe him first. He's shown such concern for the rest of the world. Especially the comment about how he wants to be remember by history as the man who destroyed Isreal. Definatly want to be on his side. :rolleyes:
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sarujin
09-26-2002, 08:59 PM
I know plently of people who dislike America, but I see no reason to hate america.
People complain about america being the worlds bully etc etc. But there will always be a country more powerful then others its just nature, the police are more powerful then criminals so they get respected. In school, there is one bully bigger then the other kids. Life will always be like this. If everyone had the same power, everyone would attack each other as there would be no consequences.
However I'm glad its america with all this power, and before that it was britain. These countries both run on principles of free rights, free speech and justice. Hell they may not be perfect, but they work bloodly well. As you can see if a country like this is overlooking the world, they arn't going to kill people for being christian, or muslim, or hindu.
Imagine what the world would be like if Saddam was the leader of the worlds hyperpower, or China was the worlds hyperpower. The world wouldn't be that safe anymore.
People say america doesn't repect human rights, so how is not going in, and taking out a countries dictator, so the countries population can live without oppression not respecting human rights? It makes no sense, so much of what america does is actually ends up helping other countries, for example serbia is now alot more stable. If you go back far enough Japan is now a succesfull country.
Yes many of the things america has done havn't been perfect or worked out that well. Like supplying weapons to countries like Afghanistain and Iraq (which in response to Taranaki, they actually supplied alot more to Iran, and the reasons were so those countries could stop the USSR invading, as the spread of communism was the worlds problem back then). But no one in this world is perfect, so what are a few imperfections in the fabric of life?
The main thing other people have said they don't like about americains is the arrogrance of alot of their people. The only thing that can be improved is the americain population learning more about the world around them. But this is only a stereotype of course, there are millions of americains who arn't like this.
sarujin
People complain about america being the worlds bully etc etc. But there will always be a country more powerful then others its just nature, the police are more powerful then criminals so they get respected. In school, there is one bully bigger then the other kids. Life will always be like this. If everyone had the same power, everyone would attack each other as there would be no consequences.
However I'm glad its america with all this power, and before that it was britain. These countries both run on principles of free rights, free speech and justice. Hell they may not be perfect, but they work bloodly well. As you can see if a country like this is overlooking the world, they arn't going to kill people for being christian, or muslim, or hindu.
Imagine what the world would be like if Saddam was the leader of the worlds hyperpower, or China was the worlds hyperpower. The world wouldn't be that safe anymore.
People say america doesn't repect human rights, so how is not going in, and taking out a countries dictator, so the countries population can live without oppression not respecting human rights? It makes no sense, so much of what america does is actually ends up helping other countries, for example serbia is now alot more stable. If you go back far enough Japan is now a succesfull country.
Yes many of the things america has done havn't been perfect or worked out that well. Like supplying weapons to countries like Afghanistain and Iraq (which in response to Taranaki, they actually supplied alot more to Iran, and the reasons were so those countries could stop the USSR invading, as the spread of communism was the worlds problem back then). But no one in this world is perfect, so what are a few imperfections in the fabric of life?
The main thing other people have said they don't like about americains is the arrogrance of alot of their people. The only thing that can be improved is the americain population learning more about the world around them. But this is only a stereotype of course, there are millions of americains who arn't like this.
sarujin
jsb88
11-01-2002, 12:24 PM
It is true that they spite you because oyu are a rich nation. It happens in society. The underpriveleged people are always after the blood of rich people. everyone is jealous. Some people are just more violent about it than others.
Stefanel1
11-03-2002, 06:11 PM
I must conceed I didn't read all the posts. But I don't speak very well English !
I'm French, 18 years old, living near Versailles.
Of course it's not dangerous for an American to come in France, in England or in Italy, etc. That's sure ! Though, don't go in Iraq... ;)
The "terrorists" don't like Americans, for many political reasons : you go every where in the world to serve your interests. Why do Bush want to attack Iraq ? Because he wants to make a new democracy or he wants petrol ??! Everybody knows the answer.
As the relationships between Europeans and Americans are concerned, Europeans are "anti-americans" (a little bit) because of various things : you claim to be liberal (economicaly) but when europeans or japanese are too "strong" on your market, you tax their products. You don't respect environement (Kyoto), you don't respect cultures of foreign countries, etc. You discover that you weren't alone in the world the 9th September 2001 ! Bush said (truly) : "exportations, I think it's the products we're selling abroad" ! ... I went 2 times in two american families in the US, they thought that French were still doing the Citroën DS and that we didn't have Credit cards.... I'm affraid. I think (and hope) all americans are not like that !
By "you", I mean, your politic.
And if Europeans "don't like" (again, it's a big word) ameriacns, that's not because they are richer as I read. The EU is the first economic power in the world.
Personnaly, I'd say that americans would be more liked if they were more open minded on the things which are outside their frontiers, if they stopped to take France (4th power in the world) for example as a third world country.
And I don't like your (very slow) drinving and your cooking :D humour... don't hit !
Americans have also, of course, many good sides, but we will speak about that in an other post ;)
I axed my opinion on the oppositions between Europeans and Americans because I don't know enough other opinions. It's very complicated, some people wrote books about that ! ;)
Still, Europeans and Americans are friends, even if there are some little tears !
I'm French, 18 years old, living near Versailles.
Of course it's not dangerous for an American to come in France, in England or in Italy, etc. That's sure ! Though, don't go in Iraq... ;)
The "terrorists" don't like Americans, for many political reasons : you go every where in the world to serve your interests. Why do Bush want to attack Iraq ? Because he wants to make a new democracy or he wants petrol ??! Everybody knows the answer.
As the relationships between Europeans and Americans are concerned, Europeans are "anti-americans" (a little bit) because of various things : you claim to be liberal (economicaly) but when europeans or japanese are too "strong" on your market, you tax their products. You don't respect environement (Kyoto), you don't respect cultures of foreign countries, etc. You discover that you weren't alone in the world the 9th September 2001 ! Bush said (truly) : "exportations, I think it's the products we're selling abroad" ! ... I went 2 times in two american families in the US, they thought that French were still doing the Citroën DS and that we didn't have Credit cards.... I'm affraid. I think (and hope) all americans are not like that !
By "you", I mean, your politic.
And if Europeans "don't like" (again, it's a big word) ameriacns, that's not because they are richer as I read. The EU is the first economic power in the world.
Personnaly, I'd say that americans would be more liked if they were more open minded on the things which are outside their frontiers, if they stopped to take France (4th power in the world) for example as a third world country.
And I don't like your (very slow) drinving and your cooking :D humour... don't hit !
Americans have also, of course, many good sides, but we will speak about that in an other post ;)
I axed my opinion on the oppositions between Europeans and Americans because I don't know enough other opinions. It's very complicated, some people wrote books about that ! ;)
Still, Europeans and Americans are friends, even if there are some little tears !
Ssom
11-04-2002, 01:47 AM
stefanel- Excellenent reply and great to get a view point from the European cultures that are becoming scapegoats for Anti-Americanism :)
Now I generally direct my hate reegionally- I stayed in California for example and met some great people- Californians are quite intellegent- never once out of a huge number of people from all walks of life that I talked to-I didn't have to explain where NZ was once. But also I went to places in the NOrth and South- and fuck I hated every one of those fucking rednecks- they were stupid, uneducated and those that did know where NZ was thought it was a big sheep-station- I also read numerous bumper stickers saying "Kick thier ass take thier gas"- no prizes for guessing what they were reffering to.
Then there is the media- Which over exagerate everything- "Oh- the world will never be the same again after September 11" "Because Germany is refusing to support the US against Iraq- It's a new Cold War"
These two were my favourites. I don't care about September 11 and Germany and the US are getting on allright :rolleyes:
I of course welcome any American that decides to come to NZ- shows they have some sense ;) and I know quite a lot of Americans over here- they are usually great people- you occasionally get the rednecks- but overall I have no problem with them
:)
I just hate thier government and media and about 40% of thier citizens
Now I generally direct my hate reegionally- I stayed in California for example and met some great people- Californians are quite intellegent- never once out of a huge number of people from all walks of life that I talked to-I didn't have to explain where NZ was once. But also I went to places in the NOrth and South- and fuck I hated every one of those fucking rednecks- they were stupid, uneducated and those that did know where NZ was thought it was a big sheep-station- I also read numerous bumper stickers saying "Kick thier ass take thier gas"- no prizes for guessing what they were reffering to.
Then there is the media- Which over exagerate everything- "Oh- the world will never be the same again after September 11" "Because Germany is refusing to support the US against Iraq- It's a new Cold War"
These two were my favourites. I don't care about September 11 and Germany and the US are getting on allright :rolleyes:
I of course welcome any American that decides to come to NZ- shows they have some sense ;) and I know quite a lot of Americans over here- they are usually great people- you occasionally get the rednecks- but overall I have no problem with them
:)
I just hate thier government and media and about 40% of thier citizens
Stefanel1
11-04-2002, 04:44 AM
Germans are not against the war in Iraq, everydody is against ! ... untill the made of chimic arms is prouved.
Your example about the 11 September is excellent : it changed not the world ! it's a terrible thing but it's not the end of the world. It's not also a "war against the Evil" ! as Bush said : we're the rgoods, they're the bads !!!!!!!!!!! a president is saying that in the XXIth century, I'm scarred.
But I remember going on the west coast (national parcs, SF, Las Vegas, etc.) and I prefered than the east (Florida, Virginia, except NY).
Your example about the 11 September is excellent : it changed not the world ! it's a terrible thing but it's not the end of the world. It's not also a "war against the Evil" ! as Bush said : we're the rgoods, they're the bads !!!!!!!!!!! a president is saying that in the XXIth century, I'm scarred.
But I remember going on the west coast (national parcs, SF, Las Vegas, etc.) and I prefered than the east (Florida, Virginia, except NY).
jsb88
11-05-2002, 07:51 AM
Well said. sad but true reality.
Menu dei Motori
11-05-2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Stefanel1
I must conceed I didn't read all the posts. But I don't speak very well English !
I'm French, 18 years old, living near Versailles.
Of course it's not dangerous for an American to come in France, in England or in Italy, etc. That's sure ! Though, don't go in Iraq... ;)
The "terrorists" don't like Americans, for many political reasons : you go every where in the world to serve your interests. Why do Bush want to attack Iraq ? Because he wants to make a new democracy or he wants petrol ??! Everybody knows the answer.
As the relationships between Europeans and Americans are concerned, Europeans are "anti-americans" (a little bit) because of various things : you claim to be liberal (economicaly) but when europeans or japanese are too "strong" on your market, you tax their products. You don't respect environement (Kyoto), you don't respect cultures of foreign countries, etc. You discover that you weren't alone in the world the 9th September 2001 ! Bush said (truly) : "exportations, I think it's the products we're selling abroad" ! ... I went 2 times in two american families in the US, they thought that French were still doing the Citroën DS and that we didn't have Credit cards.... I'm affraid. I think (and hope) all americans are not like that !
By "you", I mean, your politic.
And if Europeans "don't like" (again, it's a big word) ameriacns, that's not because they are richer as I read. The EU is the first economic power in the world.
Personnaly, I'd say that americans would be more liked if they were more open minded on the things which are outside their frontiers, if they stopped to take France (4th power in the world) for example as a third world country.
And I don't like your (very slow) drinving and your cooking :D humour... don't hit !
Americans have also, of course, many good sides, but we will speak about that in an other post ;)
I axed my opinion on the oppositions between Europeans and Americans because I don't know enough other opinions. It's very complicated, some people wrote books about that ! ;)
Still, Europeans and Americans are friends, even if there are some little tears !
well i really cannot add anymore!
I must conceed I didn't read all the posts. But I don't speak very well English !
I'm French, 18 years old, living near Versailles.
Of course it's not dangerous for an American to come in France, in England or in Italy, etc. That's sure ! Though, don't go in Iraq... ;)
The "terrorists" don't like Americans, for many political reasons : you go every where in the world to serve your interests. Why do Bush want to attack Iraq ? Because he wants to make a new democracy or he wants petrol ??! Everybody knows the answer.
As the relationships between Europeans and Americans are concerned, Europeans are "anti-americans" (a little bit) because of various things : you claim to be liberal (economicaly) but when europeans or japanese are too "strong" on your market, you tax their products. You don't respect environement (Kyoto), you don't respect cultures of foreign countries, etc. You discover that you weren't alone in the world the 9th September 2001 ! Bush said (truly) : "exportations, I think it's the products we're selling abroad" ! ... I went 2 times in two american families in the US, they thought that French were still doing the Citroën DS and that we didn't have Credit cards.... I'm affraid. I think (and hope) all americans are not like that !
By "you", I mean, your politic.
And if Europeans "don't like" (again, it's a big word) ameriacns, that's not because they are richer as I read. The EU is the first economic power in the world.
Personnaly, I'd say that americans would be more liked if they were more open minded on the things which are outside their frontiers, if they stopped to take France (4th power in the world) for example as a third world country.
And I don't like your (very slow) drinving and your cooking :D humour... don't hit !
Americans have also, of course, many good sides, but we will speak about that in an other post ;)
I axed my opinion on the oppositions between Europeans and Americans because I don't know enough other opinions. It's very complicated, some people wrote books about that ! ;)
Still, Europeans and Americans are friends, even if there are some little tears !
well i really cannot add anymore!
jsb88
11-05-2002, 09:00 AM
I think you got it in one!
YogsVR4
11-05-2002, 01:43 PM
You don't respect environement
:rolleyes: What a pile of horse shit.
Its this uninformed and knee jerk reaction that pisses people off over here. Because Kyoto is a stupid treaty that we didn’t sign (and rightly so) suddenly we don’t care about the environment?! I don’t know what logic you're applying, but its pretty sad.
you claim to be liberal (economicaly) but when europeans or japanese are too "strong" on your market, you tax their products
To strong – as in dumping? Every country in the world has protectionist policies. I’d be happy if that all stopped (since that protection always leads to taxpayer money). Everyone does it differently. France won’t allow genetic engineered foods (and the like) because they cant compete (they say its for health reasons though there is ZERO evidence of that). Japan’s immense banking problems are a direct result of their massive protectionist policies. There are a lot more examples, but the point is other countries looks to the US when we throw up barriers while not even seeing their own. (Again, I don’t want any barriers done by anyone)
I know we are not a perfect country, but the shear lunacy of the statements made about us boggle the mind.
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:rolleyes: What a pile of horse shit.
Its this uninformed and knee jerk reaction that pisses people off over here. Because Kyoto is a stupid treaty that we didn’t sign (and rightly so) suddenly we don’t care about the environment?! I don’t know what logic you're applying, but its pretty sad.
you claim to be liberal (economicaly) but when europeans or japanese are too "strong" on your market, you tax their products
To strong – as in dumping? Every country in the world has protectionist policies. I’d be happy if that all stopped (since that protection always leads to taxpayer money). Everyone does it differently. France won’t allow genetic engineered foods (and the like) because they cant compete (they say its for health reasons though there is ZERO evidence of that). Japan’s immense banking problems are a direct result of their massive protectionist policies. There are a lot more examples, but the point is other countries looks to the US when we throw up barriers while not even seeing their own. (Again, I don’t want any barriers done by anyone)
I know we are not a perfect country, but the shear lunacy of the statements made about us boggle the mind.
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Ssom
11-05-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
To strong – as in dumping? Every country in the world has protectionist policies. I’d be happy if that all stopped (since that protection always leads to taxpayer money). Everyone does it differently. France won’t allow genetic engineered foods (and the like) because they cant compete (they say its for health reasons though there is ZERO evidence of that). Japan’s immense banking problems are a direct result of their massive protectionist policies. There are a lot more examples, but the point is other countries looks to the US when we throw up barriers while not even seeing their own. (Again, I don’t want any barriers done by anyone)
GE foods have a good reason to be banned- we don't know the full picture of how they will affect us later on- I am 100% anti-GE
And why in fuck's name would you want to protect that embarrassing steel industry of yours???:confused:
To strong – as in dumping? Every country in the world has protectionist policies. I’d be happy if that all stopped (since that protection always leads to taxpayer money). Everyone does it differently. France won’t allow genetic engineered foods (and the like) because they cant compete (they say its for health reasons though there is ZERO evidence of that). Japan’s immense banking problems are a direct result of their massive protectionist policies. There are a lot more examples, but the point is other countries looks to the US when we throw up barriers while not even seeing their own. (Again, I don’t want any barriers done by anyone)
GE foods have a good reason to be banned- we don't know the full picture of how they will affect us later on- I am 100% anti-GE
And why in fuck's name would you want to protect that embarrassing steel industry of yours???:confused:
YogsVR4
11-05-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
GE foods have a good reason to be banned- we don't know the full picture of how they will affect us later on- I am 100% anti-GE
And why in fuck's name would you want to protect that embarrassing steel industry of yours???:confused:
You are (once again) missing the point. I do not want any protection for any business in any country just for that reason. Sorry ass companies dont get better. Learn how to read :rolleyes:
As for being anti-GE, thats great - dont fucking buy the food then. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be available because the farming community cant compete.
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GE foods have a good reason to be banned- we don't know the full picture of how they will affect us later on- I am 100% anti-GE
And why in fuck's name would you want to protect that embarrassing steel industry of yours???:confused:
You are (once again) missing the point. I do not want any protection for any business in any country just for that reason. Sorry ass companies dont get better. Learn how to read :rolleyes:
As for being anti-GE, thats great - dont fucking buy the food then. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be available because the farming community cant compete.
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Menu dei Motori
11-06-2002, 08:03 AM
you can´t differentiate between gen food and non gen food
and that´s the problem
and that´s the problem
YogsVR4
11-06-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Menu dei Motori
you can´t differentiate between gen food and non gen food
and that´s the problem
You can look up the producers and see how they do their production.
However you are free to become Amish and not worry about any technological advancement since indoor plumbing.
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you can´t differentiate between gen food and non gen food
and that´s the problem
You can look up the producers and see how they do their production.
However you are free to become Amish and not worry about any technological advancement since indoor plumbing.
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jsb88
11-06-2002, 02:09 PM
There is no need to be overly patriotic. We are in an international forum here, and are therefore open minded.
I believe that GM food are a good idea, as long as they can be completly proven, as we would be able to feed poorer nations for practically nothing!
I believe that GM food are a good idea, as long as they can be completly proven, as we would be able to feed poorer nations for practically nothing!
Stefanel1
11-06-2002, 05:44 PM
YogsVR4 : you're the only American here protecting your nation ;)
I'd maintain that the USA are not respecting environment. Indeed, that's not really because they didn't sign Kyoto. But if your government would want to change the text (which is surely not perfect as all the texts !), they could. They didn't do it because it's a contraint for Economy. Europeans are not happy to do this but we have to protect environment : in 40 years (and before), we'll say "ah, we didn't know !".
The USA is the country which pollute (per capita) the more in the world. That's a fact. And you can't say that you do many things to find a solution.
As the GM food is concerned, I'm (as Moss106) totally against this. Why ? because, first of all, we absolutely do not know the effects on the health (some studies showed that it has a negative impact on the health cancelling the effect of some medicaments). Then, eat a GM tomato, and a "real" one : if you don't feel the difference, you have a problem. We'll we eat capsules for dinner as in the science fictions movies ???!!!!! hope we won't ! And finally, occidental countries will have a new "full-power" on the food, and the Third world coutries will stay in their miserability. And these arguments are not exhaustives, I'm not a making a scientific etude !
Be honnest, Americans are not "the good", neither the Europeans of course (but we know it, that's the difference !). They do some things that make them sometimes not very nice !
I'm laughing when I hear an American saying : "why do some people not like us, we are great !" you said child.....
And again, we never forget the good parts of America and Americans, but that's not the subject here.
I'd maintain that the USA are not respecting environment. Indeed, that's not really because they didn't sign Kyoto. But if your government would want to change the text (which is surely not perfect as all the texts !), they could. They didn't do it because it's a contraint for Economy. Europeans are not happy to do this but we have to protect environment : in 40 years (and before), we'll say "ah, we didn't know !".
The USA is the country which pollute (per capita) the more in the world. That's a fact. And you can't say that you do many things to find a solution.
As the GM food is concerned, I'm (as Moss106) totally against this. Why ? because, first of all, we absolutely do not know the effects on the health (some studies showed that it has a negative impact on the health cancelling the effect of some medicaments). Then, eat a GM tomato, and a "real" one : if you don't feel the difference, you have a problem. We'll we eat capsules for dinner as in the science fictions movies ???!!!!! hope we won't ! And finally, occidental countries will have a new "full-power" on the food, and the Third world coutries will stay in their miserability. And these arguments are not exhaustives, I'm not a making a scientific etude !
Be honnest, Americans are not "the good", neither the Europeans of course (but we know it, that's the difference !). They do some things that make them sometimes not very nice !
I'm laughing when I hear an American saying : "why do some people not like us, we are great !" you said child.....
And again, we never forget the good parts of America and Americans, but that's not the subject here.
YogsVR4
11-06-2002, 06:18 PM
The USA is the country which pollute (per capita) the more in the world. That's a fact. And you can't say that you do many things to find a solution.
As measured by what standards? What one oranization calls waste is not what another calls it. Overall or specific? I dont consider CO2 pollution - but ok. We have more of that than anyone. I dont know of any deaths from CO2 over exposure, but I sure know of ones from Murcury poisoning and thats not in this country. I have pleanty more, but my point is, the organizations that spout their pollution numbers will say and do anything to get their agenda through.
Before you call that a double standard and say the same thing about me, remember I do not say we dont want to address pollution or reduce specific emmisions, but dont take what Greenpeace (etc) say at face value.
And - yes I can say we do not and not have a solution readily availalbe. They are mutually exclusive things.
As the GM food is concerned, I'm (as Moss106) totally against this. Why ? because, first of all, we absolutely do not know the effects on the health (some studies showed that it has a negative impact on the health cancelling the effect of some medicaments). Then, eat a GM tomato, and a "real" one : if you don't feel the difference, you have a problem.
A couple aritcles you may avail yourself of. http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Units/gec/gecko/gm-brief.htm#The_problems_now
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/genes/gm_genie/consumer_guide/question1.shtml
I don’t care if you don’t want to eat it. Don't. Do some research so you know what you're buying. However, don’t stop me from eating what I want. The policies of excluding a food because one person doesn't like it is adverse to letting me have a choice. Most of the European farmers fear that they cannot compete with our farmers and are looking for excuses to exclude our products from the market. I say fine - slap a label on their and let the consumer decide. If most people done buy GM food, then the producers will not make it. Its what we like to call a "Free Market System" - something people in the world seem to be forgetting.
I am not worried about how the world perceives us. Its not important or does it make any difference to me. Its funny how some people here get all worked up over it, but its usually the same people who badmouth us no matter what the rest of the world thinks.
On the first note - no, I am not protecting my nation I am defending free markets and capitalism. I do love my country and really like the fact people are trying to get here and nobody is forced to stay. No walls to keep people in. Since we are the big boy on the block, we'll always catch the grief from the little whiners looking to make a name for themselves. Something else to consider as well. I am older then just about every other US member on this board. There are a lot of others here who still have a lot to learn about economics and life in general (I know I still have more to learn, but I've experienced more then most)
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As measured by what standards? What one oranization calls waste is not what another calls it. Overall or specific? I dont consider CO2 pollution - but ok. We have more of that than anyone. I dont know of any deaths from CO2 over exposure, but I sure know of ones from Murcury poisoning and thats not in this country. I have pleanty more, but my point is, the organizations that spout their pollution numbers will say and do anything to get their agenda through.
Before you call that a double standard and say the same thing about me, remember I do not say we dont want to address pollution or reduce specific emmisions, but dont take what Greenpeace (etc) say at face value.
And - yes I can say we do not and not have a solution readily availalbe. They are mutually exclusive things.
As the GM food is concerned, I'm (as Moss106) totally against this. Why ? because, first of all, we absolutely do not know the effects on the health (some studies showed that it has a negative impact on the health cancelling the effect of some medicaments). Then, eat a GM tomato, and a "real" one : if you don't feel the difference, you have a problem.
A couple aritcles you may avail yourself of. http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Units/gec/gecko/gm-brief.htm#The_problems_now
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/genes/gm_genie/consumer_guide/question1.shtml
I don’t care if you don’t want to eat it. Don't. Do some research so you know what you're buying. However, don’t stop me from eating what I want. The policies of excluding a food because one person doesn't like it is adverse to letting me have a choice. Most of the European farmers fear that they cannot compete with our farmers and are looking for excuses to exclude our products from the market. I say fine - slap a label on their and let the consumer decide. If most people done buy GM food, then the producers will not make it. Its what we like to call a "Free Market System" - something people in the world seem to be forgetting.
I am not worried about how the world perceives us. Its not important or does it make any difference to me. Its funny how some people here get all worked up over it, but its usually the same people who badmouth us no matter what the rest of the world thinks.
On the first note - no, I am not protecting my nation I am defending free markets and capitalism. I do love my country and really like the fact people are trying to get here and nobody is forced to stay. No walls to keep people in. Since we are the big boy on the block, we'll always catch the grief from the little whiners looking to make a name for themselves. Something else to consider as well. I am older then just about every other US member on this board. There are a lot of others here who still have a lot to learn about economics and life in general (I know I still have more to learn, but I've experienced more then most)
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Stefanel1
11-06-2002, 06:59 PM
If CO² is no pulltion for you, I can't help you ! Today, of course, it's not dangerous, in a short term. But we know that this kind of pollution is responsible for the global warming. We will suffer of it in few years (2030-2040), we've to think about that !!!! I hope you're smart enough to understand this problem.
Greenpeace (and this kind of organisation) are excessive. But Americans are not looking for a solution about pollution.
If we allowed the GM food, I won't have the choice. There will be GM in every plates of everybody. So, I don't care what you eat if it's not "contaminating" me.
Economically, the GM are very coompetitives, so, of course, the classic cultures will disappear.
Yes, of course, in the little farms in Europe, with their very little farmers (...), we'll be scarred by Oncle Sam. Aïe Aïe aïe... it's crazy ! I'm wondering if Europe is not a third wold country... heum... ah no, it's the first power in the world ! I forgot.
The consummers don't choose to buy GM or not (cereals, bread, etc.). It's include (often in the USA) or forbiden (untill 1% of the product in the EU).
There are also big "farms" able to do GM in Europe, but our governments don't want it know because (again), we don't know the effects on the health.
You said : "I am not worried about how the world perceives us". That's exactly what people over the USA (yes, there is a world except the USA !) are reproaching you. You live in your country without taking care of the advices which are contraignant. What a pity !
Finally, the big difference btw US and UE, is that we don't say that we're perfect and we're searching solutions to various problems (but you don't ever see these problems !).
I am defending free markets and capitalism too. But I think all is not black or white. I don't know you and your experience, your studies, etc. And you don't know mine.
I'm not making war, I guess you don't either, even if we're speaking a little bit violently.
Greenpeace (and this kind of organisation) are excessive. But Americans are not looking for a solution about pollution.
If we allowed the GM food, I won't have the choice. There will be GM in every plates of everybody. So, I don't care what you eat if it's not "contaminating" me.
Economically, the GM are very coompetitives, so, of course, the classic cultures will disappear.
Yes, of course, in the little farms in Europe, with their very little farmers (...), we'll be scarred by Oncle Sam. Aïe Aïe aïe... it's crazy ! I'm wondering if Europe is not a third wold country... heum... ah no, it's the first power in the world ! I forgot.
The consummers don't choose to buy GM or not (cereals, bread, etc.). It's include (often in the USA) or forbiden (untill 1% of the product in the EU).
There are also big "farms" able to do GM in Europe, but our governments don't want it know because (again), we don't know the effects on the health.
You said : "I am not worried about how the world perceives us". That's exactly what people over the USA (yes, there is a world except the USA !) are reproaching you. You live in your country without taking care of the advices which are contraignant. What a pity !
Finally, the big difference btw US and UE, is that we don't say that we're perfect and we're searching solutions to various problems (but you don't ever see these problems !).
I am defending free markets and capitalism too. But I think all is not black or white. I don't know you and your experience, your studies, etc. And you don't know mine.
I'm not making war, I guess you don't either, even if we're speaking a little bit violently.
boingo82
11-06-2002, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Stefanel1
...
If we allowed the GM food, I won't have the choice. There will be GM in every plates of everybody. So, I don't care what you eat if it's not "contaminating" me.
Just as there is Kosher food for the Jewish, and non-meat food for the vegeterians, and non-animal-product-whatsoever food for the Vegans, and non-milk-product food for the lactose intolerant, there would be food marketed for the folks who do not wish to eat GE. The market responds to demand, and if enough people like you do not want to eat GE, there will be non-GE products available. Personally I think the idea that food could be "contaminated" by its GE content is laughable.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
... I'm wondering if Europe is not a third wold country... heum... ah no, it's the first power in the world ! I forgot.
Umm, duh. You keep referring to EU as a country, which it's not. It's a conglomerate of countries, or a continent, if you will. No one here referred to Europe or France as third-world countries.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
The consummers don't choose to buy GM or not (cereals, bread, etc.). It's include (often in the USA) or forbiden (untill 1% of the product in the EU).
See my comment above.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
You said : "I am not worried about how the world perceives us". That's exactly what people over the USA (yes, there is a world except the USA !) are reproaching you. You live in your country without taking care of the advices which are contraignant. What a pity !
Finally, the big difference btw US and UE, is that we don't say that we're perfect and we're searching solutions to various problems (but you don't ever see these problems !).
Another big difference is that EU is not a country. And, likewise, the US is constantly seeking out solutions to problems that you don't know about. You assume that because you don't hear about this, it doesn't occur.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
Be honnest, Americans are not "the good", neither the Europeans of course (but we know it, that's the difference !). They do some things that make them sometimes not very nice !
I'm laughing when I hear an American saying : "why do some people not like us, we are great !" you said child.....
We don't claim to be the only "good" in the world, neither are we only ones with valid opinions. We don't have all the answers. Parts of the country have high crime, and mass corruption. But these, of course, can be found in any country. I think the real question is not "why do some people not like us" but "why do some people judge a nation of 265 billion people based on little snippets they hear from the mass media, many of whom are corrupt scoundrels, arranging statistics to suit their own personal agenda?"
...
If we allowed the GM food, I won't have the choice. There will be GM in every plates of everybody. So, I don't care what you eat if it's not "contaminating" me.
Just as there is Kosher food for the Jewish, and non-meat food for the vegeterians, and non-animal-product-whatsoever food for the Vegans, and non-milk-product food for the lactose intolerant, there would be food marketed for the folks who do not wish to eat GE. The market responds to demand, and if enough people like you do not want to eat GE, there will be non-GE products available. Personally I think the idea that food could be "contaminated" by its GE content is laughable.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
... I'm wondering if Europe is not a third wold country... heum... ah no, it's the first power in the world ! I forgot.
Umm, duh. You keep referring to EU as a country, which it's not. It's a conglomerate of countries, or a continent, if you will. No one here referred to Europe or France as third-world countries.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
The consummers don't choose to buy GM or not (cereals, bread, etc.). It's include (often in the USA) or forbiden (untill 1% of the product in the EU).
See my comment above.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
You said : "I am not worried about how the world perceives us". That's exactly what people over the USA (yes, there is a world except the USA !) are reproaching you. You live in your country without taking care of the advices which are contraignant. What a pity !
Finally, the big difference btw US and UE, is that we don't say that we're perfect and we're searching solutions to various problems (but you don't ever see these problems !).
Another big difference is that EU is not a country. And, likewise, the US is constantly seeking out solutions to problems that you don't know about. You assume that because you don't hear about this, it doesn't occur.
Originally posted by Stefanel1
Be honnest, Americans are not "the good", neither the Europeans of course (but we know it, that's the difference !). They do some things that make them sometimes not very nice !
I'm laughing when I hear an American saying : "why do some people not like us, we are great !" you said child.....
We don't claim to be the only "good" in the world, neither are we only ones with valid opinions. We don't have all the answers. Parts of the country have high crime, and mass corruption. But these, of course, can be found in any country. I think the real question is not "why do some people not like us" but "why do some people judge a nation of 265 billion people based on little snippets they hear from the mass media, many of whom are corrupt scoundrels, arranging statistics to suit their own personal agenda?"
YogsVR4
11-06-2002, 09:24 PM
If CO² is no pulltion for you, I can't help you ! Today, of course, it's not dangerous, in a short term. But we know that this kind of pollution is responsible for the global warming. We will suffer of it in few years (2030-2040), we've to think about that !!!! I hope you're smart enough to understand this problem.
Causing global warming? Bullshit. Those damn dinasours lived on a planet that was tens of degrees warmer then it is today. They must have put out to much CO2 - heaven forbid the sun be accused of causing it.
Greenpeace (and this kind of organisation) are excessive. But Americans are not looking for a solution about pollution.
More bullshit. Our EAP and state agencies have strick standards on emmissions and how waste is handled. It gets more stringent every year. You're statement is without merrit and, again, bullshit.
If we allowed the GM food, I won't have the choice. There will be GM in every plates of everybody. So, I don't care what you eat if it's not "contaminating" me.
Thats nuts. (see bullshit) That line of thinking is the same as saying, if we let Honda Civics in the country nobody will ever buy a BMW from us again.
Economically, the GM are very coompetitives, so, of course, the classic cultures will disappear.
Yes, of course, in the little farms in Europe, with their very little farmers (...), we'll be scarred by Oncle Sam. Aïe Aïe aïe... it's crazy ! I'm wondering if Europe is not a third wold country... heum... ah no, it's the first power in the world ! I forgot.
The consummers don't choose to buy GM or not (cereals, bread, etc.). It's include (often in the USA) or forbiden (untill 1% of the product in the EU).
Sorry I can't quite follow your logic here. Are you saying that because little farmers cant compete GM foods from America shouldn't be permitted? That contradicts your statement from an earlier post wondering why we would protect our poor steel industry.
There are also big "farms" able to do GM in Europe, but our governments don't want it know because (again), we don't know the effects on the health.
Fine - don't buy it, but they are not competing because the [i]cant[\i] not because they are so afraid of it. (take a look into the history of nuclear energy in France and Japan for the governments concern about health and safety)
You said : "I am not worried about how the world perceives us". That's exactly what people over the USA (yes, there is a world except the USA !) are reproaching you. You live in your country without taking care of the advices which are contraignant. What a pity !
Finally, the big difference btw US and UE, is that we don't say that we're perfect and we're searching solutions to various problems (but you don't ever see these problems !).
Your right on that. We dont need Europe. But they sure need us. Does the word Bosnia mean anything to you? You are also wrong when you say we dont see problems. We certainly do. It just when we dont agree with you, you get all in a tizzy and get bent out of shape when we say "so what?"
I am defending free markets and capitalism too. But I think all is not black or white. I don't know you and your experience, your studies, etc. And you don't know mine. I'm not making war, I guess you don't either, even if we're speaking a little bit violently.
I am not following you again here. Defending free markets? Then dont exclude a product because you dont happen to like it. War? What war? Healthy debate isn't war.
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Causing global warming? Bullshit. Those damn dinasours lived on a planet that was tens of degrees warmer then it is today. They must have put out to much CO2 - heaven forbid the sun be accused of causing it.
Greenpeace (and this kind of organisation) are excessive. But Americans are not looking for a solution about pollution.
More bullshit. Our EAP and state agencies have strick standards on emmissions and how waste is handled. It gets more stringent every year. You're statement is without merrit and, again, bullshit.
If we allowed the GM food, I won't have the choice. There will be GM in every plates of everybody. So, I don't care what you eat if it's not "contaminating" me.
Thats nuts. (see bullshit) That line of thinking is the same as saying, if we let Honda Civics in the country nobody will ever buy a BMW from us again.
Economically, the GM are very coompetitives, so, of course, the classic cultures will disappear.
Yes, of course, in the little farms in Europe, with their very little farmers (...), we'll be scarred by Oncle Sam. Aïe Aïe aïe... it's crazy ! I'm wondering if Europe is not a third wold country... heum... ah no, it's the first power in the world ! I forgot.
The consummers don't choose to buy GM or not (cereals, bread, etc.). It's include (often in the USA) or forbiden (untill 1% of the product in the EU).
Sorry I can't quite follow your logic here. Are you saying that because little farmers cant compete GM foods from America shouldn't be permitted? That contradicts your statement from an earlier post wondering why we would protect our poor steel industry.
There are also big "farms" able to do GM in Europe, but our governments don't want it know because (again), we don't know the effects on the health.
Fine - don't buy it, but they are not competing because the [i]cant[\i] not because they are so afraid of it. (take a look into the history of nuclear energy in France and Japan for the governments concern about health and safety)
You said : "I am not worried about how the world perceives us". That's exactly what people over the USA (yes, there is a world except the USA !) are reproaching you. You live in your country without taking care of the advices which are contraignant. What a pity !
Finally, the big difference btw US and UE, is that we don't say that we're perfect and we're searching solutions to various problems (but you don't ever see these problems !).
Your right on that. We dont need Europe. But they sure need us. Does the word Bosnia mean anything to you? You are also wrong when you say we dont see problems. We certainly do. It just when we dont agree with you, you get all in a tizzy and get bent out of shape when we say "so what?"
I am defending free markets and capitalism too. But I think all is not black or white. I don't know you and your experience, your studies, etc. And you don't know mine. I'm not making war, I guess you don't either, even if we're speaking a little bit violently.
I am not following you again here. Defending free markets? Then dont exclude a product because you dont happen to like it. War? What war? Healthy debate isn't war.
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Ssom
11-07-2002, 03:01 AM
isn't this funny.........Stefanel is the only one making sense here and he barely speaks English compared to you lot :silly2:
GE food is simply bullshit- It tastes worse than organic food and is I doubt it will benefit you as highly- What about if we let GM freelance into the enviroment- and all of a sudden we realise that it causes bodily harm??? I know that most DECENT chefs (Not your acne-faced burger flipper) will only use organic- it is that much better. Remember if it aint broke don't fix it- I have yet to hear of one benefit of GE food.
Also CO2 is a greenhouse gas- it moves into the Ozone creating global warming- then when it reacts with the water in the air- hell it's raining Carbonic acid all of a sudden :rolleyes: - And if I remember correctly the overuse of CFC's from you lot started this Ozone problem :rolleyes:
and about the dinosaurs- who knows? They could have farted CO2 for all we know :rolleyes:
GE food is simply bullshit- It tastes worse than organic food and is I doubt it will benefit you as highly- What about if we let GM freelance into the enviroment- and all of a sudden we realise that it causes bodily harm??? I know that most DECENT chefs (Not your acne-faced burger flipper) will only use organic- it is that much better. Remember if it aint broke don't fix it- I have yet to hear of one benefit of GE food.
Also CO2 is a greenhouse gas- it moves into the Ozone creating global warming- then when it reacts with the water in the air- hell it's raining Carbonic acid all of a sudden :rolleyes: - And if I remember correctly the overuse of CFC's from you lot started this Ozone problem :rolleyes:
and about the dinosaurs- who knows? They could have farted CO2 for all we know :rolleyes:
jsb88
11-07-2002, 03:14 AM
Close The Thread! :devil:
YogsVR4
11-07-2002, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by jsb88
Close The Thread! :devil:
If only to keep Moss from making more mornic statments :rolleyes:
Stefanel1,
Pendant que je trouve votre arguements pour avoir quelques-uns a pensé. J'ai grandi fatigué de lecture des ordures mal écrites que Moss106gti écrit.
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Close The Thread! :devil:
If only to keep Moss from making more mornic statments :rolleyes:
Stefanel1,
Pendant que je trouve votre arguements pour avoir quelques-uns a pensé. J'ai grandi fatigué de lecture des ordures mal écrites que Moss106gti écrit.
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jsb88
11-07-2002, 11:49 AM
You are not the only one who speaks French here Yogs, but I will not translate.
Stefanel1
11-07-2002, 12:11 PM
Je n'ai pas parfaitement compris ce que vous avez essayé de dire... unless that you said Moss106 was saying... "bullshit" (you do like this word !). I'm not according with you, but never mind.
I have surely said some exagerate things. The aim of this discussion is not a big fight between Americans (at least you) and French (I), English (jsb) or Neo Zealander (Moss).
But to put in a notshell, I'd say that, everybody pollutes (but I thing Americans don't really care as much as other big countries). CO² is pollution, you can't say it's not right.
About the GM food, we can't know the problems which can be brought by this. But that's is the problem. We've to be carefully about what we're eating.
When I said "little farmers" in Europe, it was to make you understand that there are not any more in France or Europe (unless José bové... heum !).
You don't care about Europe because you don't need it... That's not because you d'ont need, that you've not to care about it.
And you're right, Europe (and Japan, and Australia, etc.) are more dependant of the USA than the opposite.
Sur ce, je vous dis bonsoir et vous souhaite un bon appétit sans OGM ;)
I have surely said some exagerate things. The aim of this discussion is not a big fight between Americans (at least you) and French (I), English (jsb) or Neo Zealander (Moss).
But to put in a notshell, I'd say that, everybody pollutes (but I thing Americans don't really care as much as other big countries). CO² is pollution, you can't say it's not right.
About the GM food, we can't know the problems which can be brought by this. But that's is the problem. We've to be carefully about what we're eating.
When I said "little farmers" in Europe, it was to make you understand that there are not any more in France or Europe (unless José bové... heum !).
You don't care about Europe because you don't need it... That's not because you d'ont need, that you've not to care about it.
And you're right, Europe (and Japan, and Australia, etc.) are more dependant of the USA than the opposite.
Sur ce, je vous dis bonsoir et vous souhaite un bon appétit sans OGM ;)
Stefanel1
11-07-2002, 03:27 PM
And to respond to boingo82 (about Europe as a country), I'd say that Europe is of course not a country like the USA. But we can't compare France (60 billion of inhabitants), Germany (80 billions) or Japan 100 billion) to the USA (280 billion).
But you can compare (economically) the EU (15 countries and 300 billion of inhabitants) and the USA. And in this comparaison, the USA have more military power and less economic power (though the difference is not big).
boingo82 : I'm sometimes caustic (I hope you know France, England or Italy are not third world coutries !)...
But you can compare (economically) the EU (15 countries and 300 billion of inhabitants) and the USA. And in this comparaison, the USA have more military power and less economic power (though the difference is not big).
boingo82 : I'm sometimes caustic (I hope you know France, England or Italy are not third world coutries !)...
boingo82
11-07-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
....
GE food is simply bullshit- It tastes worse than organic food...
Oh that's weird. How do you know what it tastes like?? Didn't you say a couple posts ago that you would never eat it?
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
.... I know that most DECENT chefs (Not your acne-faced burger flipper) will only use organic- it is that much better. Remember if it aint broke don't fix it- I have yet to hear of one benefit of GE food....
How do YOU know organic is so much better?? Didn't you JUST SAY that no one knows whether it's harmful or not??
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
........And if I remember correctly the overuse of CFC's from you lot started this Ozone problem :rolleyes:...
Oh, right. Americans are the only ones who ever used aerosol hairspray and other aerosol products. :rolleyes:
Remember those AFX cars you played with as a child? The ones that raced around a little track with grooves in it as you pulled the trigger on a little plastic gun? Guess what those motors produce? Ozone. Guess what sewing-machine and other small motors produce? Ozone.
....
GE food is simply bullshit- It tastes worse than organic food...
Oh that's weird. How do you know what it tastes like?? Didn't you say a couple posts ago that you would never eat it?
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
.... I know that most DECENT chefs (Not your acne-faced burger flipper) will only use organic- it is that much better. Remember if it aint broke don't fix it- I have yet to hear of one benefit of GE food....
How do YOU know organic is so much better?? Didn't you JUST SAY that no one knows whether it's harmful or not??
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
........And if I remember correctly the overuse of CFC's from you lot started this Ozone problem :rolleyes:...
Oh, right. Americans are the only ones who ever used aerosol hairspray and other aerosol products. :rolleyes:
Remember those AFX cars you played with as a child? The ones that raced around a little track with grooves in it as you pulled the trigger on a little plastic gun? Guess what those motors produce? Ozone. Guess what sewing-machine and other small motors produce? Ozone.
YogsVR4
11-07-2002, 03:38 PM
Stefanel1 - I applogize for my very poor French - its been years since I've used it. I can only remember (some of) the words but not the sentence structure. Yeah - I did say I've enjoyed reading your posts and I am tired of listening to Moss. (sorry Moss)
For Moss my poor recolection of some slang my French teacher told me 20 years ago (if I remember it right). - Etre à côté de ses pompes
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For Moss my poor recolection of some slang my French teacher told me 20 years ago (if I remember it right). - Etre à côté de ses pompes
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boingo82
11-07-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Stefanel1
And to respond to boingo82 (about Europe as a country), I'd say that Europe is of course not a country like the USA. But we can't compare France (60 billion of inhabitants), Germany (80 billions) or Japan 100 billion) to the USA (280 billion).
But you can compare (economically) the EU (15 countries and 300 billion of inhabitants) and the USA. And in this comparaison, the USA have more military power and less economic power (though the difference is not big).
boingo82 : I'm sometimes caustic (I hope you know France, England or Italy are not third world coutries !)...
I know, I just don't appreciate the "All Americans are wasteful, polluting, selfish pigs" thing any more than you appreciate the "French people stink and don't ever bathe" thing. Every country has a reputation for something and I think it's positively ridiculous to judge the gov'm't, and ESPECIALLY the citizens, by a preconcieved notion without having visited and lived under their policies.
And to respond to boingo82 (about Europe as a country), I'd say that Europe is of course not a country like the USA. But we can't compare France (60 billion of inhabitants), Germany (80 billions) or Japan 100 billion) to the USA (280 billion).
But you can compare (economically) the EU (15 countries and 300 billion of inhabitants) and the USA. And in this comparaison, the USA have more military power and less economic power (though the difference is not big).
boingo82 : I'm sometimes caustic (I hope you know France, England or Italy are not third world coutries !)...
I know, I just don't appreciate the "All Americans are wasteful, polluting, selfish pigs" thing any more than you appreciate the "French people stink and don't ever bathe" thing. Every country has a reputation for something and I think it's positively ridiculous to judge the gov'm't, and ESPECIALLY the citizens, by a preconcieved notion without having visited and lived under their policies.
Stefanel1
11-07-2002, 03:47 PM
My English is not actually better ;)
Être à côté de ses pompes, indeed, that's the right sentence !
Yog : what is your job ? (if it's not undiscreet).
Finally, sorry again if I lost one's temper.
Être à côté de ses pompes, indeed, that's the right sentence !
Yog : what is your job ? (if it's not undiscreet).
Finally, sorry again if I lost one's temper.
Ssom
11-07-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by boingo82
Oh, right. Americans are the only ones who ever used aerosol hairspray and other aerosol products. :rolleyes:
Remember those AFX cars you played with as a child? The ones that raced around a little track with grooves in it as you pulled the trigger on a little plastic gun? Guess what those motors produce? Ozone. Guess what sewing-machine and other small motors produce? Ozone.
I didn't say the ONLY ones- bt if I remember correctly America continued use of them after it was found they cause global warming......Also my memory doesn't serve me that well- but it was either the Kyoto or another protocol where America and Australia refused to cut back on CFC in industry BECAUSE they were worried about money :rolleyes: Fuck money- you guys have plenty of that stuff :rolleyes: btw what are AFX cars ???:confused: - Course I'm not sure if my above statement is 100% correct- I'll have to re-read the articles :)
AS for GE food- I have eaten it- it is :apuke:- Never again
Sorry if my last post sounded somewhat stupid- I only had like 2 minutes to write it :)
Of course I am pleased to see that now days Americans are beginning to care for the enviroment more than what they once were- with things like Emissions laws, CFC-free air conditioners and safer spray cans.
Oh, right. Americans are the only ones who ever used aerosol hairspray and other aerosol products. :rolleyes:
Remember those AFX cars you played with as a child? The ones that raced around a little track with grooves in it as you pulled the trigger on a little plastic gun? Guess what those motors produce? Ozone. Guess what sewing-machine and other small motors produce? Ozone.
I didn't say the ONLY ones- bt if I remember correctly America continued use of them after it was found they cause global warming......Also my memory doesn't serve me that well- but it was either the Kyoto or another protocol where America and Australia refused to cut back on CFC in industry BECAUSE they were worried about money :rolleyes: Fuck money- you guys have plenty of that stuff :rolleyes: btw what are AFX cars ???:confused: - Course I'm not sure if my above statement is 100% correct- I'll have to re-read the articles :)
AS for GE food- I have eaten it- it is :apuke:- Never again
Sorry if my last post sounded somewhat stupid- I only had like 2 minutes to write it :)
Of course I am pleased to see that now days Americans are beginning to care for the enviroment more than what they once were- with things like Emissions laws, CFC-free air conditioners and safer spray cans.
Stefanel1
11-07-2002, 04:18 PM
Americans are wasteful is true. Europeans too, but I wanted to say that they are more carefully about that.
French stink, it's false. That's the difference...
I went several time in the USA (NY, SF, Florida, Virginia, National Parcs, etc.) particularly in american families (classic, not really bad or really good, just normal).
But when I hear an American telling me if we do have credit cards in France, I'm wondering some questions about the mental health of some Americans... you can understad it ! So, I know (not well of course) the USA, but (too) many Americans never went in Europe... but they criticize.
Moss : don't say that money is shit or fuck or.... It's a thing which what the world is running. It's sometimes not the best thing but it's a fact. But to protect environment would not cost us a lot... today. But if we care about it in 30 years, when it will be late, we'll have to pay a lot, and our econmies will suffer.
French stink, it's false. That's the difference...
I went several time in the USA (NY, SF, Florida, Virginia, National Parcs, etc.) particularly in american families (classic, not really bad or really good, just normal).
But when I hear an American telling me if we do have credit cards in France, I'm wondering some questions about the mental health of some Americans... you can understad it ! So, I know (not well of course) the USA, but (too) many Americans never went in Europe... but they criticize.
Moss : don't say that money is shit or fuck or.... It's a thing which what the world is running. It's sometimes not the best thing but it's a fact. But to protect environment would not cost us a lot... today. But if we care about it in 30 years, when it will be late, we'll have to pay a lot, and our econmies will suffer.
YogsVR4
11-07-2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Stefanel1
My English is not actually better ;)
Être à côté de ses pompes, indeed, that's the right sentence !
Yog : what is your job ? (if it's not undiscreet).
I am a software engineer. I get to sit in meetings designing software or in front of the computer actually writing code/scripts.
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My English is not actually better ;)
Être à côté de ses pompes, indeed, that's the right sentence !
Yog : what is your job ? (if it's not undiscreet).
I am a software engineer. I get to sit in meetings designing software or in front of the computer actually writing code/scripts.
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Stefanel1
11-07-2002, 05:10 PM
Ok ! good job.
boingo82
11-07-2002, 06:44 PM
To moss: AFX cars =
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1785305995
http://www.stanbridges.com.au/SLOT%20CARS/scalextr.htm
Originally posted by Stefanel1
Americans are wasteful is true. Europeans too, but I wanted to say that they are more carefully about that.
French stink, it's false. That's the difference...
I went several time in the USA (NY, SF, Florida, Virginia, National Parcs, etc.) particularly in american families (classic, not really bad or really good, just normal).
But when I hear an American telling me if we do have credit cards in France, I'm wondering some questions about the mental health of some Americans... you can understad it ! So, I know (not well of course) the USA, but (too) many Americans never went in Europe... but they criticize. ...
Not all Americans are wasteful. You can't generalize the whole country with one statement. We're far too diverse and far too spread out. I wasn't saying French people stink, I was saying that is an oft-perpetuated rumour, just like the "Americans are wasteful" bit.
I personally am pretty far from wasteful. I am a pack-rat, one of those people who never throws anything away if I think there might be a use for it. I come from a family of the same. It's not unusual for us to find a TV or some such in a garbage can, and take it home to fix it. Most of our home electronics were aquired in this manner. And we spent many many years far too poor to be wasteful. The thing about Americans all having plenty of $$$ is bullshit too. My family spent many years making only $15,000 for a family of 7. And we survived without going into debt. We did not accomplish this by being wasteful.
You can't possibly hold it against me that ONE American once asked you whether you had credit cards in France! Yes, there are a lot of morons in this country, but there are a lot of morons in every country. Better for that person to be curious, and interested in improving their knowledge, than for them to not ask at all.
It's true I have never been out of the continental U.S. We could never afford it. You can't fault me for that. When I am able, I plan to travel and experience cultures outside of my own little corner of the world.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1785305995
http://www.stanbridges.com.au/SLOT%20CARS/scalextr.htm
Originally posted by Stefanel1
Americans are wasteful is true. Europeans too, but I wanted to say that they are more carefully about that.
French stink, it's false. That's the difference...
I went several time in the USA (NY, SF, Florida, Virginia, National Parcs, etc.) particularly in american families (classic, not really bad or really good, just normal).
But when I hear an American telling me if we do have credit cards in France, I'm wondering some questions about the mental health of some Americans... you can understad it ! So, I know (not well of course) the USA, but (too) many Americans never went in Europe... but they criticize. ...
Not all Americans are wasteful. You can't generalize the whole country with one statement. We're far too diverse and far too spread out. I wasn't saying French people stink, I was saying that is an oft-perpetuated rumour, just like the "Americans are wasteful" bit.
I personally am pretty far from wasteful. I am a pack-rat, one of those people who never throws anything away if I think there might be a use for it. I come from a family of the same. It's not unusual for us to find a TV or some such in a garbage can, and take it home to fix it. Most of our home electronics were aquired in this manner. And we spent many many years far too poor to be wasteful. The thing about Americans all having plenty of $$$ is bullshit too. My family spent many years making only $15,000 for a family of 7. And we survived without going into debt. We did not accomplish this by being wasteful.
You can't possibly hold it against me that ONE American once asked you whether you had credit cards in France! Yes, there are a lot of morons in this country, but there are a lot of morons in every country. Better for that person to be curious, and interested in improving their knowledge, than for them to not ask at all.
It's true I have never been out of the continental U.S. We could never afford it. You can't fault me for that. When I am able, I plan to travel and experience cultures outside of my own little corner of the world.
Ssom
11-08-2002, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by boingo82
To moss: AFX cars =
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1785305995
http://www.stanbridges.com.au/SLOT%20CARS/scalextr.htm
Not all Americans are wasteful. You can't generalize the whole country with one statement. We're far too diverse and far too spread out. I wasn't saying French people stink, I was saying that is an oft-perpetuated rumour, just like the "Americans are wasteful" bit.
I personally am pretty far from wasteful. I am a pack-rat, one of those people who never throws anything away if I think there might be a use for it. I come from a family of the same. It's not unusual for us to find a TV or some such in a garbage can, and take it home to fix it. Most of our home electronics were aquired in this manner. And we spent many many years far too poor to be wasteful. The thing about Americans all having plenty of $$$ is bullshit too. My family spent many years making only $15,000 for a family of 7. And we survived without going into debt. We did not accomplish this by being wasteful.
You can't possibly hold it against me that ONE American once asked you whether you had credit cards in France! Yes, there are a lot of morons in this country, but there are a lot of morons in every country. Better for that person to be curious, and interested in improving their knowledge, than for them to not ask at all.
It's true I have never been out of the continental U.S. We could never afford it. You can't fault me for that. When I am able, I plan to travel and experience cultures outside of my own little corner of the world.
DAMN! I missed out a lot not having a slot car set- Matchbox/Hotwheels tracks were the best I got :(
Anyway............Boingo I couldn't agree more with what you say- It is unfair to generalise EVERYONE because Americans (Usually the middle or upper class) are given a (somewhat true) stereotype as wasteful.....I can understand what you are saying by rumaging through bins as well.......When my mum first emigrated here from South Italy, she was a part of a very poor family of 5- she even got her roller-skates from the trash :(
I wasn't talking about Americans having $$$$$ More about how the government has $$$$$- I am really not sure- but is it wisely spent in America- becaues the NZ government waste truckloads of taxpayer $$$ on things we don't need....Like Maori broadcasting etc......While our health system scrambles for every cent it can find ......:mad:
Nobody is holding anything against you- I have read your often-intellegent and well researched posts and have then judged you on an individual basis....Its all good :D
Also good luck on scraping together some dough and seeing the world :)
To moss: AFX cars =
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1785305995
http://www.stanbridges.com.au/SLOT%20CARS/scalextr.htm
Not all Americans are wasteful. You can't generalize the whole country with one statement. We're far too diverse and far too spread out. I wasn't saying French people stink, I was saying that is an oft-perpetuated rumour, just like the "Americans are wasteful" bit.
I personally am pretty far from wasteful. I am a pack-rat, one of those people who never throws anything away if I think there might be a use for it. I come from a family of the same. It's not unusual for us to find a TV or some such in a garbage can, and take it home to fix it. Most of our home electronics were aquired in this manner. And we spent many many years far too poor to be wasteful. The thing about Americans all having plenty of $$$ is bullshit too. My family spent many years making only $15,000 for a family of 7. And we survived without going into debt. We did not accomplish this by being wasteful.
You can't possibly hold it against me that ONE American once asked you whether you had credit cards in France! Yes, there are a lot of morons in this country, but there are a lot of morons in every country. Better for that person to be curious, and interested in improving their knowledge, than for them to not ask at all.
It's true I have never been out of the continental U.S. We could never afford it. You can't fault me for that. When I am able, I plan to travel and experience cultures outside of my own little corner of the world.
DAMN! I missed out a lot not having a slot car set- Matchbox/Hotwheels tracks were the best I got :(
Anyway............Boingo I couldn't agree more with what you say- It is unfair to generalise EVERYONE because Americans (Usually the middle or upper class) are given a (somewhat true) stereotype as wasteful.....I can understand what you are saying by rumaging through bins as well.......When my mum first emigrated here from South Italy, she was a part of a very poor family of 5- she even got her roller-skates from the trash :(
I wasn't talking about Americans having $$$$$ More about how the government has $$$$$- I am really not sure- but is it wisely spent in America- becaues the NZ government waste truckloads of taxpayer $$$ on things we don't need....Like Maori broadcasting etc......While our health system scrambles for every cent it can find ......:mad:
Nobody is holding anything against you- I have read your often-intellegent and well researched posts and have then judged you on an individual basis....Its all good :D
Also good luck on scraping together some dough and seeing the world :)
jsb88
11-08-2002, 12:57 PM
I travelled all the places I had never been on business as soon as I retired. :D
I am sure you will travel the world one day boingo!:)
I am sure you will travel the world one day boingo!:)
Stefanel1
11-08-2002, 01:11 PM
I'm totally agree with you boingo.
Americans are wastefull : not all of course. And averall, i blame your government more than american people.
Don't take personnaly the things I'm wrinting. It's not personnal ;)
Moss said well.
Americans are wastefull : not all of course. And averall, i blame your government more than american people.
Don't take personnaly the things I'm wrinting. It's not personnal ;)
Moss said well.
jsb88
11-08-2002, 01:59 PM
Reform from bush!
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