2003 Camry SE problems, need help!!

Hello All!!

I have a question regarding the 2003 Camry SE models which I'm hoping someone on here will be able to help me with. The car in question belongs to my gf and she has had two significant (money wise) repairs in the last couple of months which we both think seems a bit excessive for such a new car. The first repair was in November at which time she noticed a louder than normal exhaust or noise coming form the engine. When she took it in to the stealer, she was told she needed to replace her intake manifold. Is it normal to have to replace this part after only three years of driving basically to and from work which is only a 15 mile round trip? The repair was nearly $800 but she eventually got them down to under $500. After that was repaired, she noticed another sound, this time coming from the engine compartment. When she took it in to have the oil changed on a Saturday near closing time, they told her it probably just needed the tensioner belt tightened and that she should bring it back later in the week to do that. When she did take it in later that week, she was told that one of the bearings in the tensioner belt assembly had gone bad and to repair it would cost $400.

These are the questions which I would like to have answered:

1.) Is it possible that the second repair developed as a result of the first repair. I mean, could the TB assembly have been damaged (causing a bearing to go bad) in the process of replacing the intake manifold? If so, should she have been charged for correcting their mistake? If it is not likely that the TB assembly was damaged in the process of the first repair, is it normal for a bearing to go bad in the TB assembly in a car this new? The second problem was noticed immediately after the first repair. As luck would have it, two months prior to the first repair, her warranty ran out.

2.) In regard to the intake manifold repair, is this a common problem with this model Camry? if not, what could possibly cause this part to go bad? If it is a common problem, should she have been charged to correct the problem?

3.) Are there any TSB's on either of these problems?

I know abosolutely nothing about Toyotas, I'm a BMW guy. As I stated earlier, the reason we are questioning this is because the repairs seem rather excessive for such a new car.

Are we wrong to think that?


Thank you for your help:)

yes the intake manifold problem is common on the 4 cylinder from 02-06, which i assume you have. if you are still under warranty it should be covered. but if you are out of warranty their is not a recall on this item just a t.s.b. so you are out of pocket on this one.

it is my opinion that they did not damage the idler bearings in the tensioner (for the serp belt) when they did the intake manifold. usually they last a long time (100,000 plus) but it is not unheard of them going out at 30,000 miles. this is one of the items that has reduced toyota's quality in the new camry. the old drive belt set ups did not have a spring tensioner or idler pulleys on the serpentine belt. and guess what? when those items aren't present they can't go bad! the old system was old school with you having to tension the belt with a pry bar and then tighten the bolts to hold it. example my old 92 and my present 95.

also keep in mind replacing the tensioner and pulleys for the serp belt can be a do it your self job. probably costing under a hundred for aftermarket parts.
keep in mind i said aftermarket parts. a lot of toyota buffs say use toyota parts only, but as you can see your o.e.m idler bearings failed premature so what harm is it to try a set up of a gates tensioner and timken idler pulleys. just my two cents.

good luck ! mike

p.s. how many miles do you have?

yes the intake manifold problem is common on the 4 cylinder from 02-06, which i assume you have. if you are still under warranty it should be covered. but if you are out of warranty their is not a recall on this item just a t.s.b. so you are out of pocket on this one.

it is my opinion that they did not damage the idler bearings in the tensioner (for the serp belt) when they did the intake manifold. usually they last a long time (100,000 plus) but it is not unheard of them going out at 30,000 miles. this is one of the items that has reduced toyota's quality in the new camry. the old drive belt set ups did not have a spring tensioner or idler pulleys on the serpentine belt. and guess what? when those items aren't present they can't go bad! the old system was old school with you having to tension the belt with a pry bar and then tighten the bolts to hold it. example my old 92 and my present 95.

also keep in mind replacing the tensioner and pulleys for the serp belt can be a do it your self job. probably costing under a hundred for aftermarket parts.
keep in mind i said aftermarket parts. a lot of toyota buffs say use toyota parts only, but as you can see your o.e.m idler bearings failed premature so what harm is it to try a set up of a gates tensioner and timken idler pulleys. just my two cents.

good luck ! mike

p.s. how many miles do you have?


Thank you for your response Mike,

The car currently has 39,000 miles on it.

If I'm hearing you right, you say the idler bearings going bad is not that uncommon on the 02-06. Would having the belt too tight or either too loose have had anything to do with it? I'm asking this because I just got off the phone with my gf and she wanted me to ask this question.

Do you have a link to the TSB?

Thanks again,
Scott

the intake manifold is a common failure. i don't want to say the idler bearings going at 39,000 is common. but it happens. alot of them fail in the 70,000 -100,000 mile range, and some make it for the life of the vehicle. that same set up is used in all cars foreign and domestic. usually the rule is try and wiggle the bearings at 60,000 miles (or when new serp belt is installed) and if they have play replace them.

also you ask if the tension could be set too loose or too tight? the system is set up on a spring tensioner. the spring is what tensions the system not the mechanic. all the mechanic does is release the tension to get the belt off. when he puts the belt back on he lets the tensioner loose and the spring decides how tight. sometimes when the spring in the tensioner goes bad the tensioner will bounce. this can cause the idler bearings to take a dump early along with the water pump, alt bearings etc... i don't know what happened in your case but the bounce is one possible scenario. or you could of just got a poorly made bearing manufactured on friday.

no i don't have a link to the tsb but someone with more knowledge (one of the regulars) on here might.

Yes, there is a TSB for this issue:

Make : TOYOTA
Model : CAMRY
Year : 2003

Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Service Bulletin Num : 04004

Date of Bulletin: SEP 08, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10010160
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Summary: ACCESSORY DRIVE BELT SQUEAL/ BELT TENSIONER RATTLE.

Also for the Intake Manifold Noise:

Make : TOYOTA
Model : CAMRY
Year : 2003
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Service Bulletin Num : 01804
Date of Bulletin: JUN 03, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10008384
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM:MANIFOLD/HEADER/MUFFLER/TAIL PIPE
Summary: INTAKE MANIFOLD NOISE. *MJ WARRANTY INFORMATION CHANGE.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/images/spacer.gif

Since there is a TSB on this problem and your car is not that far out of warranty, I would call Toyota corporate customer service in California and speak to a customer service rep. Their number is 1-800-331-4331. Follow the menu to get to customer service. Ask for some goodwill help in getting the problem taken care of under warranty. Have the car's vin number and the TSB number in hand to reference. It is definitely worth the time it takes for the phone call. It would be best to have the actual owner of the car call.

Good luck.

Mike

Yes, there is a TSB for this issue:

Make : TOYOTA
Model : CAMRY
Year : 2003

Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Service Bulletin Num : 04004

Date of Bulletin: SEP 08, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10010160
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Summary: ACCESSORY DRIVE BELT SQUEAL/ BELT TENSIONER RATTLE.

Also for the Intake Manifold Noise:

Make : TOYOTA
Model : CAMRY
Year : 2003
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Service Bulletin Num : 01804
Date of Bulletin: JUN 03, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10008384
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM:MANIFOLD/HEADER/MUFFLER/TAIL PIPE
Summary: INTAKE MANIFOLD NOISE. *MJ WARRANTY INFORMATION CHANGE.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/images/spacer.gif


Thank you Brian for the link.
They want $38.00 to do a search so I think I'll pass on that. The car has already been repaired, we were just wonderig if we should try to get reimbursed for the repair job or if we had a leg to stand on to request reimbursement. I guess since there is no recall as of yet and that her car is out of warranty, that answers my question.

Thanks again for your help,
Scott

Since there is a TSB on this problem and your car is not that far out of warranty, I would call Toyota corporate customer service in California and speak to a customer service rep. Their number is 1-800-331-4331. Follow the menu to get to customer service. Ask for some goodwill help in getting the problem taken care of under warranty. Have the car's vin number and the TSB number in hand to reference. It is definitely worth the time it takes for the phone call. It would be best to have the actual owner of the car call.

Good luck.

Mike

Thank you for the advice, I'll pass that along to her but I don't know if that is something she would be able to do at work, I have much more freedom to make a call like that but we'll figure it out one way or another.

One more question for either you or Brian, what exactly is a TSB? I know what it stands for but what does it mean when one is issued? Is it an advisement by a manufacturer to dealer service reps as to how to handle certain repairs that appear to be troublesome? It seems to me that when a TSB is issued it's one step away from recall. Is this an accurate assumption? I bought a fairly new 7 series BMW in 97 and right after I got it a recall was issued due to Engine Block failure. If memory serves me right, I was told at the time by a friend that a TSB had been issued about a year prior to the recall.

Just curious.

Thanks again for the advice and help,
Scott

I may be wrong, but here is my understanding:

A TSB is information published by an OEM manufacturer to help dealerships fix problems. Recalls are issued usually only on safety-related or critical items for vehicle operation.

I may be wrong, but here is my understanding:

A TSB is information published by an OEM manufacturer to help dealerships fix problems. Recalls are issued usually only on safety-related or critical items for vehicle operation.

Brian,

Thanks again for the info.
Scott

The only thing I would add to what Brian said about recalls is that they are also issued to repair emmissions related components.

Mike

The only thing I would add to what Brian said about recalls is that they are also issued to repair emmissions related components.

Mike


Thanks Mike,

You guys have been very helpful. Through the TSB's we found out that there were two issued for each of her problems just a year after she bought her car while it was still under warranty. She said that when she took it in to the stealer for the intake manifold issue, she asked the Svc Mgr if he had ever heard of that part going bad so quickly in a newer car and he said "no, I've never heard one car needing to be replaced this soon", which we now know is a bold faced lie. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

Thanks again for all of your help,
Scott

It is not necessarily a bold-faced lie. Many times, unless you do your homework, find out about the TSB beforehand, and bring it to their attention, the service manager will not know or remember that the TSB even exists. He may have had only one or even none in his shop before yours and thus not needed to look into this.

Remember the old adage: When someone causes a problem that can be attributed to either stupidity or malice, the far more common cause is stupidity.

It is not necessarily a bold-faced lie. Many times, unless you do your homework, find out about the TSB beforehand, and bring it to their attention, the service manager will not know or remember that the TSB even exists. He may have had only one or even none in his shop before yours and thus not needed to look into this.

Remember the old adage: When someone causes a problem that can be attributed to either stupidity or malice, the far more common cause is stupidity.


Well, one thing which I haven't told because she just told me last night, is that when she went to the dealership the first time, while her car was running, one of the mechanics walked by as she was talking to the Svc Mgr and said "sounds like intake manifold". She was really impressed with his immediate diagnosis and felt really good about their ability to fix her car. Now (hindsight being 20/20), it's easy to see how he could make such an accurate diagnosis going only by the sound coming from the car. I don't believe for a minute that this Svc Mgr is being truthful when he says he has "never heard of one needing to be replaced in a car this new". I think this is a very common problem with the 5th generation Camry and I think Toyota is aware of that fact and I think they have made their dealerships aware of that fact as well. The fact that we knew that the TSB had been issued not even a year after she bought her car in 2003, while it was still under warranty (she's only 3,000 miles out of her warranty at present time), I think that went a long way in her call to the dealership yesterday. She told them that if need be, she was going to go to Corporate and let them know how dissatisfied she is with the dealership in question.

They said they would get back with her. The saga continues...

Thank you Brian for your continued help and input.
Scott

Well, one thing which I haven't told because she just told me last night, is that when she went to the dealership the first time, while her car was running, one of the mechanics walked by as she was talking to the Svc Mgr and said "sounds like intake manifold". She was really impressed with his immediate diagnosis and felt really good about their ability to fix her car. Now (hindsight being 20/20), it's easy to see how he could make such an accurate diagnosis going only by the sound coming from the car. I don't believe for a minute that this Svc Mgr is being truthful when he says he has "never heard of one needing to be replaced in a car this new". I think this is a very common problem with the 5th generation Camry and I think Toyota is aware of that fact and I think they have made their dealerships aware of that fact as well. The fact that we knew that the TSB had been issued not even a year after she bought her car in 2003, while it was still under warranty (she's only 3,000 miles out of her warranty at present time), I think that went a long way in her call to the dealership yesterday. She told them that if need be, she was going to go to Corporate and let them know how dissatisfied she is with the dealership in question.

They said they would get back with her. The saga continues...

Thank you Brian for your continued help and input.
Scott

Hello whitese7en,

Good move by calling the dealership and complaining about the defective intake manifold problem on the 2003 Camry. I not sure if the idler pulleys for the surpentine belt are prone to premature failure or not. something to look into maybe:dunno:

if the dealership doesn't help you out in some way, calling the corporate headquarters and letting them know the situation with your 2003 Camry is what I would do.:2cents:

My Dad has a 2003 4 cylinder Camry and I emailed him this thread and told him to be aware of these problems/defects that affect the 5th generation Camrys (2002 - 2006)

Good luck.

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY

Hello whitese7en,

Good move by calling the dealership and complaining about the defective intake manifold problem on the 2003 Camry. I not sure if the idler pulleys for the surpentine belt are prone to premature failure or not. something to look into maybe:dunno:

if the dealership doesn't help you out in some way, calling the corporate headquarters and letting them know the situation with your 2003 Camry is what I would do.:2cents:

My Dad has a 2003 4 cylinder Camry and I emailed him this thread and told him to be aware of these problems/defects that affect the 5th generation Camrys (2002 - 2006)

Good luck.

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY



Hi Joe!!

Brian provided me with two TSB's on both of the issues that we're dealing with right now, so apparently this is a problem area on these cars. I hope you or your dad don't have to go through this but if you do, at least you have this thread to draw upon.

Good Luck to you as well,
Scott

Hi All,

This is an update to the ongoing saga with my gf's car. Earlier this week, she spoke with Toyota Corporate in California regarding the problems which she has had with her car. There is such an ongoing problem with the Intake manifold that an extended warranty of 60,000 miles has been issued which her car falls under, which she has been assured the "stealer" knew about but neglected to mention to her when she took her car in. She is getting her money back on the manifold but the tensioner assembly is still in question.

There were two TSB's mentioned earlier in this thread and I was wondering if anyone had any infomation on the Tensioner Assembly TSB. Does anyone have any detailed info on that TSB?

Any help would be much appreciated,
Scott

whitse7en, THANKS!!! I'm so glad you mentioned the extended recall on the manifold. I just called Toyota Corporate (800-331-4331) and had one of the BEST customer service experiences I've had in a long time. I explained that I took my 03 Camry to a "stealer" just before passing 60K miles, and they told me this problem was only covered under the 30K warranty. The customer service guy said the warranty was extended only for 3 model years and they had to update previously issued documents stating otherwise. Bottomline... Corporate is going to contact the dealer FOR ME! and I should have this problem corrected UNDER WARRANTY in a few days. Thank you again for taking time to post this information!