Take this, Mr. ZO6!

I love my Subie, but at heart I'm a Mopar man:

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/detroit-auto-show/detroit-auto-show-embargouhoh-the-2008-dodge-viper-srt10-courtesy-of-road--track-224709.php

Thats a lot of power.

It needs that kinda power to keep up.
And with all the rumors of the new S/C'd Corvette....


Impressive power out of it though.

There's no point to this shit anymore. What street tire do you know of can handle that much power? Focus more on the handling of the car, 500 hp was plenty.

so it begins.....the horse power wars....hahahahahaahahaha..

I read about that earlier. sound pretty sweeeet.

There's no point to this shit anymore. What street tire do you know of can handle that much power? Focus more on the handling of the car, 500 hp was plenty.+1

American performance needs a better balance of power and agility.

+1


+1:)

Love the new Viper! Power is sick, love the hood, don't care for the "H" wheels. I've read that there's a lot more on tap with those heads too, so they can easily bump it up to take down the supercharged vette (if it comes out). Apparently one of the SRT engineers said that they will never be outdone by a vette again, I hope it's true :iceslolan

As for those saying American cars have too much power and not enough handling, have you looked at any of the track times for the Viper, Z06, S7 or GT?

As for those saying American cars have too much power and not enough handling, have you looked at any of the track times for the Viper, Z06, S7 or GT?Yes. All of them. The GT and S7 are a different breed of car that 99.9999% of even wealthy people could never afford. However the Vette and Viper are more within reach. It would have been nice to see the new Viper handle a little better off the showroon floor. The z06, for less money, is already there for the first time in a long time IMHO. Check out this link if you have a few minutes...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4013662715321332704

Looks good... but wrong section. Moved to Non-Spec.

Yes. All of them. The GT and S7 are a different breed of car that 99.9999% of even wealthy people could never afford. However the Vette and Viper are more within reach. It would have been nice to see the new Viper handle a little better off the showroon floor. The z06, for less money, is already there for the first time in a long time IMHO. Check out this link if you have a few minutes...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4013662715321332704
We don't know how the new Viper will handle, but I imagine it will do a bit better than the current one with the upgraded diff and better tires, and who knows what tweaks were made to the suspension.

I like Top Gear, but I hate the way he thinks anything American is trash. He says the Z06 won't do at all because it's not as quiet on the road as a Ferarri 599. But then it's ok to compare the Lotus and Mustang on the track, without saying anything about the Lotus' street manners. Oh, and then he takes an Escalade offroading?!?! Give me a freakin' break. And then the idiot compares a Ram QC to an Ariel Atom?!?! Do we have to kick their asses again? :p

We don't know how the new Viper will handle, but I imagine it will do a bit better than the current one with the upgraded diff and better tires, and who knows what tweaks were made to the suspension.

I like Top Gear, but I hate the way he thinks anything American is trash. He says the Z06 won't do at all because it's not as quiet on the road as a Ferarri 599. But then it's ok to compare the Lotus and Mustang on the track, without saying anything about the Lotus' street manners. Oh, and then he takes an Escalade offroading?!?! Give me a freakin' break. And then the idiot compares a Ram QC to an Ariel Atom?!?! Do we have to kick their asses again? :pYeah Clarkson's a boob. If that movie was intended for an American audience we wouldn't have to watch it on the internet. His unabated anti Americanism is somewhat of a posh position to take, especially nowadays, amongst the European socialite class. It would be fun to see the look on his face if he found out his "mum" was nailed by an American sailor during WW2. It was pretty common.

I love Clarkson's way of being a dick, but when he raced the Horse with the Mustang. He said it had a 4.6L V8 with 300hp.

Not that particular Mustang, you can clearly see it was a V6 model with 250hp, automatic... and convertible. The slowest combination you can have... and they didn't race the horse and the car at the same time. I bet the Car is still faster, seeing as it had the shorter distance (racing the inside line).

I found that to be a bunch of bullshit, plus his info on the Shelby GT500 is wrong, it's 500hp not 475hp and it has a 5.4L not the 4.6L like the Rousch. It just pisses me off that somebody who produces a show of that high quality, production wise... can get so much goddamn shit wrong.

Ugh... well he likes to bash American things, there's no doubt in that. I still enjoy Top Gear though, although lately I've become more of a 5th Gear fan myself... if only for Tiff Needells review on the Z06, he's not as biased towards The Holy Britain as Jeremy Clarkson... Plus he's one hell of a driver.

5th Gear review:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G9bByWD4Oxs&mode=related&search=

I also notice how they praise most every English car saying that it has "soul". When they forget to mention the soul in the car is dead 90% of the time because they are so damn unrealiable, Jags especially. And though if you have the money to buy the car you may have the money to fix it but how fun is a street car if you can only drive it a block before you have to call a mechanic for a quick fix agian?

Its like Mr. Lous already said though. GM already has this thing trumped with the possible "SS Corvette". And that s/c'ed 7.0L says 600+, not 600.

Either way though, the current 505 hp Z06 will give the new Viper all it can handle simply because of the weight advantage. Just ask Mr. Lous what a couple hundred pounds will do to about 100 more hp, lol.

Its like Mr. Lous already said though. GM already has this thing trumped with the possible "SS Corvette". And that s/c'ed 7.0L says 600+, not 600.

Either way though, the current 505 hp Z06 will give the new Viper all it can handle simply because of the weight advantage. Just ask Mr. Lous what a couple hundred pounds will do to about 100 more hp, lol.So true. Back in the late 60's and early 70's people couldn't understand how the 340ci and 383ci MOPARS were quicker than the more powerfull Fords and Chevys. It was because of vehicle weight. It's somewhat ironic that GM's flagship is teaching MOPAR's flagship that same lesson 40 years later.

and both havent learned this lesson by now despite repeated examples by japanese cars...at least where speed and handling efficiency is concerned.

o well. i watched that whole 1 hr 20 min vid. was interesting, but i saw it already, broken up into smaller snippits. i also like how nothin has 'soul'. that makes me think.

but he says that we don't drive agressively. he crosses a 6 way stop sign intersection without hesitation. its because of the sueing power of people these days. a place up here got sued because they diddnt put out a wet floor sign, and got quite a bit of money, since she broke her arm. this was a couple years ago. what do you think it is now? its crazy.

it seemed also in all the challenges that it seemed unfair. the stang vs the exige? i mean we all know the exige will out handle it all day, but in a straight line it won't. that's what the stang was built for. he even said it himself. the base car to make better.

he hated the toyota prius. im not surprised on that one. i drove one and it was horrible. people diddnt even know i was coming it was soo quiet. it was like showing up for a Good Charlette concert dressed in all black. too bad he shot it though. i guess the older toyota truck was built a lot better.

the 300c SR8 was built for a straight line power, to handle all the 40' rims you can fit on it, with the comfurt of mercedes.

the XLR is nice, but it was ment for 1 thing in mind, to say im cadillac and can charge this much for a convertible with 400+ hp. and to be able to be quicker than the common street racer. thats basically it.

the land rover vs the Hummer and the escalade in an off roading battle? this is really unfair. The escalade is a car to say i have money to waste on gas and look at me, im somebody. not for off roading. the hummer is the same thing as the escalade, but with a more ruggled look and say im from the army. the land rover is made specifically to do this kind of off roading with grace if you want to call it that.

he then compares an ariel atom to a dodge ram base basically. the ram woulda been faster if it was the srt 10 version, but yet he fails to realize, american people much more prefer to have straight line power rather than cornering confidence. its true.

then a viper to a bmw roadster. i mean this is rediculus. yes, he gave the viper a 'advatange' if you would like to call it that. the weight alone plays a big part in the race as itself. again, common americans want to go fast in a straight line, not corners.

in conclusion of my rant, i feel that most of the challenges weren't really even if you ask me. yet again, maybe they are. i dont understand how you can't like the c6 z06 on the street. maybe i just need to drive one.

I saw that video, all it proves is that americans place different values on what they want from a car and europeans put emphasis on totally different things.

It just proves cultural difference.

Of course all the tests were biased, they were designed to seek out the flaws in american cars...cos the guy hates american cars...it's pretty common conduct for a human being to prove what they believe in imo

i don't truely believe he hates american cars, i think its because it helps him get good ratings.

i don't truely believe he hates american cars, i think its because it helps him get good ratings.

I agree his jokes get him good ratings.

And when I say "hate" i mean it in a very loose sense. What I mean is, the british like to make fun of other cultures; french, german, italian whatever.

I noticed that he loved the Vauxhaul Monaro when he road it though. I wonder what his thoughts would have been if it were the GTO.

Probably wouldn't of liked the styling... but would of liked it none-the-less.

As for those saying American cars have too much power and not enough handling, have you looked at any of the track times for the Viper, Z06, S7 or GT?
Oh yeah the Viper has a very fast track time, but it could do better. One thing that would help is drop some of the weight. The car is around 3400-3500 lbs, I would like to see them try and get it down to about 3000 lbs like Chevy tries to do with the Vette. This new Viper will probably beat the Z06 around the track but its not going to be because it handles better, it just simply outpowers it. I would just like to see Dodge come out with a Viper that is far more nimble then anything Chevy has come up with using the Corvette.

It won't happen, Dodge is more likely to make the next Viper out of Cast Iron with Lead inserts before it starts to lighten the Viper. :lol:

bigger = better....maybe not. i guess thats what happens when you put a large hemi engine into a tank.

hell, all they need to do is make the current viper body panels out of carbon fiber, and that alone would make a huge difference. i wonder how much of a difference if you would put some 17' volk te37s on the viper. that alone would be nutz. lighter viper with no power upgrades than what is on the car now, would make it more of a beast.

Hemi = :lol:

Unless it's a SRT-8 Hemi, those are pretty damn stout.

bigger = better....maybe not. i guess thats what happens when you put a large hemi engine into a tank.

hell, all they need to do is make the current viper body panels out of carbon fiber, and that alone would make a huge difference. i wonder how much of a difference if you would put some 17' volk te37s on the viper. that alone would be nutz. lighter viper with no power upgrades than what is on the car now, would make it more of a beast.


I don't think it needs help being a beast with 600 hp haha.

make it a more efficient beast lol. i swear it's plenty fast, but if you're building this to compete with the corvette, then you gotta start simple. lighter = faster....

Also another idea that comes to my mind for improvement is start building the engine using stronger parts like forged pistons. Cast iron works just fine for the V10 but putting in forged parts just makes it all the more worth paying the extra money for the Viper over the Corvette. When it comes right down to it, why exactly does the Viper cost more then the Corvette Z06? The Z06 handles great, it has twice the creature comforts of the Viper, and it costs less. What does the Viper really have to make it worth 80 grand? It has a great suspension, a big powerful engine, huge tires and wheels, but these are all things the Corvette has as well. Inside the cabin of the Viper all it really has is a 6-speed, a radio and air conditioning. Now don't get me wrong, thats exactly what I love about the Viper. It's a brutal, no sissy creature comforts beast. But you would think the Z06 should cost more then it with all the extra features it has. I don't really get why the Viper is 80 grand and the Z06 is 60-70 grand.

i think it's the whole status thing. the vette is somewhat of a status car, but the viper definetly is. people will go nutz around here if they see a mercedes. i'll say its from early 1990s. they won't care, its a benz. most people only know the car names. impala, camaro, cutlass. put it on rims and you're stuntin'(for those not into the whole 'slang era' its like saying you're loaded with money). i say i got a sentra, they say what's that? they then see it and think im loaded with cash since its always shiny, even when there is snow outside. its rediculous.

people up here mostly buy cars for 1 thing and 1 thing only: how good it will look with the new 28' rims and how much sound system space does it have. they could care less on the features of the car, or what it was built for. no wonder chevy was smart on their whole 'american revolution' thing. they all have big shiny heavy chrome rims.

i think it's the whole status thing. the vette is somewhat of a status car, but the viper definetly is. people will go nutz around here if they see a mercedes. i'll say its from early 1990s. they won't care, its a benz. most people only know the car names. impala, camaro, cutlass. put it on rims and you're stuntin'(for those not into the whole 'slang era' its like saying you're loaded with money). i say i got a sentra, they say what's that? they then see it and think im loaded with cash since its always shiny, even when there is snow outside. its rediculous.

people up here mostly buy cars for 1 thing and 1 thing only: how good it will look with the new 28' rims and how much sound system space does it have. they could care less on the features of the car, or what it was built for. no wonder chevy was smart on their whole 'american revolution' thing. they all have big shiny heavy chrome rims.
I'm sorry. That sounds like hell on Earth to me. In the Bay Area there are plenty of MBZ, BMW, Lexus, Porsche, Infiniti, Jags, etc, etc, etc. I'd wager that a lot of them are leased and barely affordable to their owner/lesse. It's a status symbol. When I went to Iowa for college I don't think I saw a German car the whole time.

I'm sorry. That sounds like hell on Earth to me. In the Bay Area there are plenty of MBZ, BMW, Lexus, Porsche, Infiniti, Jags, etc, etc, etc. I'd wager that a lot of them are leased and barely affordable to their owner/lesse. It's a status symbol. When I went to Iowa for college I don't think I saw a German car the whole time.

Try driving around baltimore and DC, you will see so many 3 and 5 series it will make you sick.

oh btw for all that dont know, the vauxhall monaro and the holden monaro are very different than the GTO. 95% of the difference is that the euro and aussie versions have a much better suspension, and achieve this balance between power and handling that weve been talking about much better than the GTO.

oh btw for all that dont know, the vauxhall monaro and the holden monaro are very different than the GTO. 95% of the difference is that the euro and aussie versions have a much better suspension, and achieve this balance between power and handling that weve been talking about much better than the GTO.


Have anything to back that up? I don't see why GM would spend any more than the absolutely have to on a car that's already set up by Holden. All they did was re-tool some parts of the car for the LHD market.

no current proof, but i read an article about bob bondurant's drifting school, and he got GTOs for all his cars from pontiac. he commented on how the suspension and seats and stuff suck from pontiac, and how the overseas versions were better. take it with a grain of salt of course, but this is what i read.

Interesting... well, maybe the Pontiac "big chiefs" decided that the Euro/Aussie suspension might of been too tight for the American market and softened up the ride for overall comfort, nevermind it takes away from the performance.

thats the reasoning i heard. something to do with detroits shitty roads.

I bet it wouldn't take much to solve the problem of the butter soft suspension.

If you call any one of these dealers (which are just a handful in the immediate Sydney Australia area):
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/results

You could probably source out the Part #'s to the factory stock Holden Monaro suspension, then cross reference them with those of a Pontiac GTO to see if they're different..

Who complains about the GTO?

I'm not, well I can't say... never driven or ridden in one yet. Probably won't, don't know anybody with one.

I'm not going to sweat that detail. haha.