buying our first 3 series

wife and i just test drove a 325i and really was impressed with it. also considering a saab, and audi. my question is any thoughts on the 2001 325i compared to similar models and since weve only bought domestic cars in the past what kind of deal can we expect if any. thanks

Depending on the dealer and the inventory, don't expect much in the way of wheeling and dealing. Typically, a BMW dealer's biggest competition is for product. Try buying an M3 or an X5--in most markets you can't find these vehicles.

The new 2002 models will be available soon, so you might find some bargains on 2001 models. But again, I wouldn't expect much, and nothing like what you'll find on closeout American models.

Audi and Saab make great products, but I am partial to BMW's for a number of reasons. Just surf the BMW World website and you'll see why!

Could choice, it's a really refined car..... It's a really good price compared to competitors.... and IMO it's much better than saab and audi

Nah it's not a good price if you compare similar equiped cars. A fully loaded 325i is about the price of a fully loaded minus wood trim IS300. The catch here is 325i isn't as powerful as IS300. Audi would probaly be a better choice. The new Audi A4 3.0L CVT equiped car looks wonderful. CVT has better gas mileage and performance than previous automatic/tiptronic applications. It's just as powerful as a IS300.

I don't like Audi now, the new ones share too much... they all look the same :( and the bmw has alot more experience with the entry level cars (3-series) so IMO it's a much better choice

MSRP for the 325i is: $26,990
MSRP for the IS-300 is: $30,805

that's a $4 thousand difference.... it would be closer comparing the IS to the 330i

but it all comes down to the buyer, it's just my opinion that I'd take the bmw, maybe since i own one i'm a little biased :)

Originally posted by gang$tarr

MSRP for the 325i is: $26,990
MSRP for the IS-300 is: $30,805


Do you know what MSRP means for BMW? It means a basic car without all the luxury equipement.

This is what's call a comparable equiped comparision.

IS300 5 Speed MSRP $29,435

Destination Charge $545

Leather/Escaine Trim Interior with Piping Package $3,575

- Power Adjustable Driver and Passenger Seats
- Home Link System
- Heated Front Seats
- Limited Slip Differential (Lsd)
- Rear Spoiler
- Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof with Sunshade and Pinch

Total MSRP $33,555

3.0L inline 6 (Supra block) producing 215hp and 218lb-ft torque.

325i 5 Speed MSRP $26,990

Destination Charge $645

Sports package $1,400

- Leather and high-gloss interior trim $1,450
- Power glass moonroof $1,050
- Power front seats with driver memory $945
- Heated front seats $500
- Xenon low-beam headlights $500
- Harman Kardon premium sound system $675

Total MSRP $34,155

2.5L inline 6 producing 184hp and 175lb-ft torque.

If you want 330i comparble equiped it will run you $39,810.

That will give you 3.0L inline 6 225hp and 214 lb-ft torque.

all my prices are courtesy of excite.com

and the 330i comes with more standard featurs, does it not? so you don't have to spend $7000 on options.

Well that's why I said you didn't look at the whole picture. All my price are curtesy of BMW and Lexus. I only pick options that will match a 330i with a IS300. The options itself cost $5,175 not $7,000. I didn't even pick a metallic color either. So I save BMW another $500 dollar.

Yes 330i does come with more items. The Harmon kardon sound system is standard. But the main upgrade is in the engine.

2001 330i sedan $33,990
Destination Charge $645
Black Leather and Aluminum-finish trim $1,450
Sport Package $1,200
Xenon low-beam headlights $ 500
Fold-down rear seats $ 475
Power glass moonroof $ 1,050
Heated front seats $ 500

Total MSRP $39,810

gang$tarr I am suprise you didn't know BMW's famous options. Afterall you did spend a lot of money loading up your 328ci.

i didn't buy it, my dad did, it was a surprise to me..... on my birthday he's just like go into the garage and get my briefcase from the car, i was like aright..... then when i open the door to go into the garage beside his car a see a new 328ci that said happy birthday on it... i was like HOLY SHIT!!! :eek:

but it has beige leather, not leatherette, harmon-kardon, sunroof, heated seats, power seats and xenon lights.... i think those are all options, it's pretty much fully loaded

That sounds pretty loaded up to me as well. The price I quoted had leather as well. Anyways BMW did everyone a good job when the up the displacement from 2.8 to 3.0L without increasing the MSRP on the coupe.

It is quite simple, actually you shouldn't even compare the IS300 in the selection. I'm not saying that because I don't care for the Lexus and that it doesn't perform quite as well as the BMW, close but not quite there. The main reason for not looking at the Lexus is because this the Lexus' first entry into this market, this is the first year of the IS300, and along with the first model of ANYTHING, not just cars, there will be problems that won't be completely refined until the end of the 2nd year or 3rd year.

In my opinion I would pass over the 325 as well, it appears that you are looking for someting more than the base model of BMW and want a little more muscle under the hood, go for the 330. It may cost a little more but your overall enjoyment of the car over time will outweigh the cost. If you get the 325 you will be happy with it for a while but you will see those 330's driving around and always with you had gotten one instead.

Originally posted by F20C
That sounds pretty loaded up to me as well. The price I quoted had leather as well. Anyways BMW did everyone a good job when the up the displacement from 2.8 to 3.0L without increasing the MSRP on the coupe.

they didn't change the MSRP?!?! well i guess i got ripped off :D

Yes IS300 had just been introduce last year but it had been introduce 2 years earlier as Toyota Altezza. I am sure Lexus work out some flaws in that car before importing to American market. IS300 walks over 325 no matter what way you look at it. Even though it is priced competitively.

Hi,
Well, I've just ordered my second BMW 3 series. A 2002 325i. I currently have a 1999 323i. I also looked at the Saab and the Audi. Incidently, my fiance drives a 2000 Saab 93. Love the Saab and the Audi. Both super cars. I have to be honest though, I would never be happy NOT driving a BMW. There is no comparison in my mind. Especially in the body style. Nothing looks as beautiful to me. As far as deals go, you will most likely pay considerably less for the Sabb. The Audi will probably be close the the BMW payment.

You may be able to get about $1000.00 off a 2001 at this point. I considered the 2001, however learned that the body was being updated on the 2002 and chose that option instead.

Hope this helps! Good luck.

i don't like how the new body looks... i prefer the 2001

i would pick up the IS300, it is by far the best bang for the buck. And i mean its not like Lexus has any quality problems.....ive driven the car (i have yet to drive the new 3) and its one SWEET car. The ONLY beef i had with the IS300 is (at least when i drove it when it first came out) the lack of an armrest......

I drove the IS 300 as well. Liked it very much, still no BMW.

I, too, have been looking seriously at the 2002 325i, and have been comparing it mostly to the new A4 1.8t quattro. I can get either one equipped the way I would like for less than 30k, and this is my goal.

I am extremely impressed with the Audi interior and equipment for the money. It wins hands-down on quality interior over the 325i. The place where it stumbles is the drivetrain: the sweet six-cylinder and the handling of the sport suspension of the 325i are clearly superior to the A4 1.8t with sport suspension set-up.

I have driven three examples of each and always walk away from the BMW with a smile on my face, muttering to myself "This is the ONE." Then, my rational side takes over, and I look at all the "stuff" you get for the same money (quattro, one of those things) with the A4, and I get stuck. Living in Michigan doesn't tilt things in favor of RWD, either.

Any support for my 'gut' feeling to go with the 325i would be appreciated (especially with regard to some posts I have seen regarding poor A/C performance and poor manufacturer response to malfunctions during the BMW warranty period).

BTW: both local dealers are willing to give me $1000 off MSRP for a 2002 model, either off the lot or if ordering a new one.

Are you the type of guy that wants to play around with the car? If that's the case you should go for 1.8T! The Audi engine have a lot of potential for more power. If you just want a good cruiser then go for 325i.

It's too bad that Audi won't offered CVT Transmission on Quattro models.

I have absolutely NO interest in any modifications.

I am looking for a great "base" car that will give me a solid, reliable, ten+ year driving experience. I want a car that has been well-engineered from the ground up with a bullet-proof drive-train. I get the impression that the BMW might be able to offer me that experience.

I seriously question the longevity of Audi products (I have owned four VWs, and they have been fun to own and drive, but don't really "hold-up" very well as far as rattles and squeaks and sagging doors).

Beware of lots of little problems with the BMW 3 series (see my post about problems with my 2000 323ci). If you do decide to get the car, be sure to get the factory extended warranty- its only about $300, but you're covered for about 1 year and 12k mi more. Its worth it. I only have 21,000 miles but have had lots of problems.

The 3 series is a lot of fun and is incredibly well balanced, but reliability is a big problem. Beware.

Originally posted by JPA
I have absolutely NO interest in any modifications.

I am looking for a great "base" car that will give me a solid, reliable, ten+ year driving experience. I want a car that has been well-engineered from the ground up with a bullet-proof drive-train. I get the impression that the BMW might be able to offer me that experience.

I seriously question the longevity of Audi products (I have owned four VWs, and they have been fun to own and drive, but don't really "hold-up" very well as far as rattles and squeaks and sagging doors).

Well then I guess you just answer your own question. Go with the BMW if you have no interest in any modifications.

my 2000 328ci hasn't had any problems with it, i think BMW reliability is a amazing.... I wouldn't definetly go for the BMW over the Audi, the build quality is alot better, and it's just an overall better rounded car than the A4. The 3 series always has been the superior entry-level luxury car and still is

bedhead maybe you got a lemon??

I don't know if KeyMac has made a decision, yet, but I appreciate the feedback and comments I have read on this thread.

I drove a couple more cars today: 02 GTi VR6, 00 325i, 02 325i. The local dealer doesn't have any A4s with sport suspension for me to try, yet.

No matter, I am DONE trying to convince myself that I enjoy driving the A4 as much as the 325i. I love the interior of the Audi and all the "kit," but, frankly, I am probably the target consumer for the BMW: I love its stripped-down, driving machine demeanor. I have yet to want to drive the A4 home, but every time I get in the 325i, I do NOT want to return it to the dealer.

I will have to stop back in a few months to let you all know how it turns-out! Thanks!

gang$tarr,

I'm glad you haven't had any problems with your 328. Check out my earlier post: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=10145&goto=newpost

Unfortunately, there are definitely other owners with a lot of the same problems that I have experienced. Good Luck

I think that you can find plenty of people who have had problems with their cars, of all makes, and not just BMW. The evidence when looking at thousands of owners is that BMW is no worse, and is probably better, than the average car company out there (when it comes to reliability). They certainly don't compare to Honda or Toyota in this department, but I wouldn't buy one of those appliances, anyway!)

I guess you have to pay your money and hope that you don't get a lemon, and that if you do, you trust you have a dealer (and manufacturer) who will stand behind their products.

If BMW really doesn't stand behind their products -- as your posts have suggested -- and I am unwilling to take the risk of getting a lemon, then I guess I should consider another make (although I don't know why I should think that Audi is superior in this respect).

IMHO, I don't think all the satisfied owners are the ones looking for "support" on the internet for their purchases, and that the negative experiences, unfortunately, stand out in this context.

Any thoughts/comments will be carefully read.

Hi JPA,

I agree with your comments. When I bought my BMW I definitely didn't necessarily expect Honda reliability (my family has owned over 3 Hondas in the past 10 years, all with flawless reliability), but I did expect that I wouldn't have too many problems in the first 20,000 miles.

I also expected that if I did have problems that BMW would respond to my emails, phone calls, and letters in a timely manner (the priority email claims a 24hr response time).

I have had the following problems all within 20,000 mostly freeway miles:

-seat belt installed incorrectly
-sunroof broke twice
-a/c broke
-coolant therm. replaced
-4 lightbulbs out in 6 months
-cd player doesn't eject properly
-driver's door handle sticks and needs to be manually pushed back in

Other owners have experienced the same types of problems, especially with early 2000 models.

Perhaps my experience is especially poor and rather unique, nevertheless, I think that BMW's customer service should contact me to resolve some of my requests. I called again last friday after months of trying. Hopefully they will get back to me.

see that's what's called a LEMON.... if a car is that bad, than the dealership should give you a new car. I know the dealership here would cause i've seen it done before.

usually they try to keep the customer happy so that they buy again

I am a pleased BMW owner. HOWEVER, If you are concerened about the price/performance ratio, I would have to tell you to look at: (gasp!) a subaru wrx. If you arent willing to pay up to buy an M3, The WRX is the next best thing. Not the 330. Oh the shame.

You know what? The WRX is simply not in the same league as Audi or BMW when it comes to buidling a finely "crafted" automobile, and that is what I want in my next car. Frankly, the WRX can't hold a candle even to my 99 New Golf build quality, when you look the car over carefully.

YES, it has all that horsepower and torque (above a very rough 3000 RPM threshold) and the handling is rather impressive (comparable in my experience to the A4 sport set-up).

I am just not the kind of guy to redline it and drop the clutch at all the stoplights, and that seems to be the way to "extract" the goodness of the WRX when you read the reviews.

I am a firm believer that it isn't how fast you go (or how quickly you get there), but how WELL you get the job done, and how satisfying the experience is along the way. Drive the WRX. Sit in those cheap seats and feel the plasticky switchgear. Then you will know.

i would much rather get the 3 than the WRX but the good thing about the WRX is that it uses a boxer engine, that's a good quality engine. Only subaru and porsche use that type of engine because it costs more to make

I have a 2000 323ci and my good friend has a 2001 WRX. I think that the quality of the BMW is definitely better, but for the money, the Subaru is a much better buy.

The quality is more than acceptable and impressive at times (great momo steering wheel) and the performance is amazing. You do have to rev the crap out of the engine and the torque at low rpms is horrible, but hey, its a different engine with different character.