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93 Trans Sport Injector fuse


DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 11:04 AM
I have a 93 Trans Sport with a 3.8ltr. I keep the van as a back up vehicle.
Well my wifes Firebird died and I went to use the van. The battery was dead. I swapped batteries with the Firebird. The van cranks but wont start. Not even an inclination that there is any combustion taking place. I had it running 2 weeks ago. I can hear the fuel pump cycling and even pulled the supply line off before and after the fuel filter and cycled the pump to make sure it was working. I checked spark on the spark plug wires and show there is power there. I wanted to check if the injectors were working so I looked for the 20 amp fuse thats in the schematic back cant find it. I see a spot in the fuse block located in the glove compartment, but it does not have any contacts which would hold a fuse. Is there another location for this fuse? Or does anyone have any ideas what my problem could be?

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 11:14 AM
Found fuse. It is ok, but van will not start.

LMP
12-22-2006, 12:50 PM
Based on my own similar problem, I suspect the crank position sensor or the ignition module. BOth control the igntion AND the injection by separate means. I had full spark, but no injection. SO disconnect one injector and read from the plug with a multimeter or small 12v bulb (it must be a low wattage since the injection time is short and filament must be small so you can see it blink) while starting. If you have no pulses on the injector then it is either the injection module or the crank position sensor.
One other try is to feed some fuel to the throttle body, while starting: if it starts, you will know it is fuel starved.
COme back with the result of these tests for more info. IN the mean time, you can look at a previous thread http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=558604
facing similar problem.

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 01:06 PM
Thank god your here!
I was hoping YOU were going to respond to my question.
You seem to know everything about theses vehicles.
Where am I putting the leads for the multimeter or test lamp?

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 01:54 PM
I put a test light on one of the injectors and got a flashing light while cranking it over. I also opened the fuel pressure valve while cranking and had quite a bit of flow. Not sure what the pressure is though. Any other ideas for checks?

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 01:58 PM
I also noticed lots of noise from around the EGR area.

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 03:15 PM
I just replaced the ignition module and coil paks and it still will not start!
I have spark and it seems injectors are working(tested with 12v lamp). The only variable I am not sure of is what actual fuel pressure is. I just see it spit out the fuel pressure valve when I depress it. I'm just not sure if its at 45psi.
Heres a question, if the pressure is not high enough, what will that effect?

LMP
12-22-2006, 03:38 PM
I also noticed lots of noise from around the EGR area.
Well, you seem to have spark and fuel...!!!??? what else? I'd double check on that.
What happens if you disconnect the EGR valve? WOUld the "noise" disappear?..which would be indicative of some erratic contacts somewhere: there have been several reports of grounding problems .
THE car has been at rest for 2 weeks you said...any chance some moisture has invaded the ignition?..I'd give it a try with a hair dryer......
EDIT..OK...if spark OK, we are left with the fuel: disconnect rubber sleeve from throttle body and feed some fuel with a spray bottle or the like and see if it will start a litle. You have to confirm that fuel issue. DO you hear the fuel pump buzz when you turn the key to ON?

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 03:55 PM
I unplugged the EGR and the noise went away.
I noticed something, when first turn on the key, I hear the fuel pump cycle for a couple seconds. I then try to start the vehicle. When it wont start, I let go of the key in the on position and the pump runs for a very long time. Could I have a pressure problem? Is there a regulator that cuts fuel flow if pressure isn't high enough?

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 04:41 PM
I seperated air cleaner and pulled out the filter and just sprayed a bunch of ether into intake. It almost wanted to fire (I think ) for a brief nano second or maybe it was just wishfull thinking. I would have expected to get almost a misfire noise or something but nothing that dramatic. The fuel pump still runs for a long time.

LMP
12-22-2006, 04:48 PM
I let go of the key in the on position and the pump runs for a very long time. Could I have a pressure problem? Is there a regulator that cuts fuel flow if pressure isn't high enough?
WHen I had this problem last spring, the pump would do that (continuous run)randomly...just as you said. I could not directly explain that cause at times it wouild do it, some other times not. After the pump gives the initial burst at key ON, the computer waits for crank pulses to rerun the pump..which happens in fact while you try to start. I would expect though that when the pulses stop, the pump would stop..but I do not know the full logic of the computer.
THe pressure is regulated by a regulating valve and return of the extra fuel to the fuel tank, so once the pump is "needed", it runs continuously.

NOw...the freak EGR valve is sign of something...not sure what. THere have been reports of running new ground wires between engine and body solving oddities...there is no risk trying that....

DJVmusic
12-22-2006, 05:05 PM
It is pouring rain right now.
Tomorrow morning I will:
a) run a new ground;
b) make a pressure gauge to check fuel pressure at Shrader valve;
I will post after I have completed those items.
Thanks LMP, I hope to hear from you tomorrow!!

DJVmusic
12-23-2006, 05:54 PM
Ok here it is kids. I was told that Ether (starting fluid ) will go bad after many years. Apparently it turns into some form of glycol. My can was very old. When I looked into the air cleaner box this morning, there was a puddle of whatever the ether turned into. Hence, why vehicle didn't want to fire last light. I replaced the fuel filter because it was cheap enough and it was sunny and dry this a.m. I also ran a piece of 10 gauge wire from battery grounf to base of ECM. I checked for spark off each coil pak and saw the same type of spark as I had previously. Hence, I don't believe ground wire did much but it I did it anyway because it was a cheap and easy to do. I got a can of fresh ether and turned it over. The engine bucked and kicked and coughed back through intake. Typical reaction with ether is in all cylinders. The engine didn't catch probably due to all the glycol product that must have been laying in all the cylinders. I sprayed much more into intake while my son cranked vehicle over. Low and behold she finaly started firing. After about 15 seconds she came to life! And How!! The idle was at 3000 rpm. I figured the ether has to burn off so I waited for idle to come down. It didn't. I tried acclerator and it would rev higher but fall right back to 3000. I figured I let it run for a while or until it died. It stayed at 3000 rpm for about 5 minutes maybe more. It was long enough for coolant to come up to operating temp. Then all of the sudden the rpms dropped. For a split second I thought it was going to die but it just dropped to regular idle and behaved normal as if nothing happened. I'm figuing that the high idle may have been the ECM in "learning mode" and once everything was evaluated it adjusted to proper idle. Thats just a theory of course. I drove it around the block a couple of times to see if there was any change in behavior but it ran fine. After parking back in the driveway, I turned it off and waited a minute and tried starting it. She fired right no problem at all. So decisivly I am not sure what the fix was, if any. The only thing that was visually different today was the that it seemed to have slightly more pressure at the Shrader valve after changing fuel filter. How much I'm not sure because I did not make a gauge to check actual pressure.
I will update on condition of vehicle as time goes on.
Thanx LMP for all your input! You are a great help to all us novices!

guido0136
01-02-2007, 10:04 AM
Good to hear that it's running, does certainly sound like bad gas was the problem. A good lesson for all to learn when parking a car for a long period of time.

Thanks.

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