Automotive History Trivia Part II

Hudson and Heep: Thanks, I will be looking into those, and should order some good ones soon. (Hudson, is that American dollars??)

If anyone wants a great index of all of the racing Ferrari Berlinettas, try "Ferrari 166 to F50GT The Racing Berlinettas "
It is by John Starky, Christopher Renwick and Philippe Plczyk.
It is about 60 bucks american.

the x refers to the breaking system in the old days of dual piston master cylander one piston did the front and one piston did the rear well when gm put this little fwd car out they decided that they would mke both pistons and resovors the same size and run the lines difrently insted of one piston for just the front they split it were the front piston would preasureize the RR and the LF and the other would do the LR and RF the reson why they did this i dunno but all front wheel drive domestics i see today utilise the same basic setup. btw the rwd vhehicals still use the traditional setup.

I guess this Tri-split dual system supplies more retardation, as required for the front-weight bias of FWD, so that at least one front brake is always available. But if one system isn't up to scratch, and you stomp on the brakes .. She's gonna go sideways! :eek:

ps: The Austin 1800's brakes were ok - getting it going was the problem
and when you did ... you wish you never had

Originally posted by olds88
the x refers to the breaking system in the old days of dual piston master cylander one piston did the front and one piston did the rear well when gm put this little fwd car out they decided that they would mke both pistons and resovors the same size and run the lines difrently insted of one piston for just the front they split it were the front piston would preasureize the RR and the LF and the other would do the LR and RF the reson why they did this i dunno but all front wheel drive domestics i see today utilise the same basic setup. btw the rwd vhehicals still use the traditional setup.

But the FWD X-Body replaced the RWD X-body. "X" didn't mean anything, just as A, B, C, etc. didn't mean anything.

Originally posted by Chris
Hudson and Heep: Thanks, I will be looking into those, and should order some good ones soon. (Hudson, is that American dollars??)

Yes...American dollars.

I could do that, or invest the 400 canadian at 20%, and in 50 years have $364,017.26 I think I will be getting the book, but still, what a waste:(

Orrite so here's a quiz for all you Ford experts ..

Which Ford-branded passenger car model used the longest serving unchanged 'greenhouse' design?
By greenhouse I mean the cabin area, specifically that you could take either the windscreen, rear window or the doors from the first of this model ever produced, and they would fit and match perfectly onto the last one made.

Crown Vic?

No, sorry Heep. This model outlived any Crown Vic 'series' by quite a margin.

btw: Extra points/beer vouchers for also correctly nominating the length in years of the model run of this Ford sedan

ps. I trust my definition was clearly expressed. Although this model was periodically 'facelifted' front and rear throught its model run, the basic external cabin area design remained essentially unchanged.

Model T?

LTD? 1965-1982

Thanks for your canny guess, Jay.
Because of the plethora of Model T bodystyles I honestly don't know if a door from any '08, for example, might fit a '27. But in any case those cute-as-a-button Model T's were only in production for a mere (!) 19 years, from 1908-1927. This longest-living Ford out-endured even the Flivver.

Heep; could the '82 'Fox'-platform LTD windscreen/doors really fit a '65?
Kudos for specifying the year models though :)

btw: for what it's worth I've been lucky enough to have owned a '27 turtle-deck roadster 'T' (hot rod) and '65 Ford Galaxie 500 (390 hi-po) .. both great machines!

Ford V8? I don't know years....

Heep, I think the longest-running Ford V8 bodyshell went from 1941-48.
Once again terrific cars, but this isn't the one.

I'm getting stumped.

Fairlane?

Correction: That'd be 1940-48 :rolleyes:

T-Bird. Not the two-seater, but the huge-ass ones.

Chris: That huge ass T-bird (tank-like, with the rocket tail lights) model ran only for a few years, from 1958 on. I think they were styled mainly by the ethnic Egyptian Robert Najar, as was the 'China-eyes' Lincoln Continental Mk III. Previously scorned as a collector vehicle, they're now starting to be appreciated, just like any outrageous design.

However, they didn't outlast the 19 year Model-T run, let alone eclipse the Ford I have in mind, which was basically structurally unchanged (see previous posts) for MORE than 19 years .. at least

With that clue in mind, can anyone hazard a guess?

ps: It was 1941-48 wasn't it? .. too many models - too few neurons :bloated:

Hmm, this is a toughie.

I was going to say Ranchero which ran for 23 years, but I doubt the doors of a '57 would fit a '72. The Falcon was only offered in the US for a short time, but it was offered in your native Australia for 40 years, and still is I believe. Again, I doubt the doors of a really old one would fit a new one, but they are fairly similar design...

the fox body granada, ltdII zepher and farmont would be my guess the didnt change shit on those cars and i dont have a clue on the production dates

Interesting to watch you guys work down this question, and hone in.

The Falcon sold for a bit over a decade in the US and the Australian version is still going strong here, now on its 6th-generation bodyshell with numerous facelifts in between. None of the external panels of those six bodyshells interchange with other 'generations' however, and the car I have in mind was not Australian in manufacture or imported here. Nor was it either a 'Fox' or Fairlane, sorry :)

Body variations of this Ford include 4-door sedan, later a wagon and Ranchero-style 'pickup' too. Headlights were either single or dual round units, then square and finally large rectangular. Mechanically it used a 6 cylinder, plus later a 4 cyl. and possibly even a diesel. An automatic transmission was first offered about 20 years into its production run.

Damnit, you've stumped me.

I was going to say Fairmont, becuase they made 4-door ones, wagons, and a prototype Ranchero...but they didn't make them for long, and they don't fit the headlight clue...

Is it a US, or a Britsh Ford?

Not a Cortina? or an escort?

That's another thing I was thinking, Escort...but I doubt it....

Heep: That Fairmont-based Ranchero you refer to actually made it to retail sale. Converted by an aftermarket company, based on the 2-door Fairmont and using a fibreglass load bed and tailgate it was badged the Durango. But that too was based on Ford's versatile Fox platform (Mustang, Crown Victoria etc) and not Henry's longest-running body.

Moppie .. mate! .. can I answer your question this way?
This Ford did NOT run with the Dagenham dogs (Ford's big UK plant) and so not either an Escort, Cortina, Capri or even the dreaded Ford 'Defect' (Prefect) and not of British manufacture or imported into the US.

This further clue might help: it's only been out of production for a decade.

I would say Sierra, but I thought they have only been around since the 80s.
Is it a German Ford?

I keep coming back to Torino because I know it had a 4, 6 (and an 8 too), was offered in 4 door, wagon, and ranchero, but it changed, and it wasn't offered for long enough.....

So far the US, Britain and Australia have been eliminated as its country of manufacture.
We're fast running out of Ford plants!
But no, it wasn't a Taunus or German Ford.

Would it help if i mentioned its eventual replacement, a modified Ford Galaxy-badged VW?

VW Sharan?

Consul?

ARG!!! I'm getting frustrated!! :( :( :(

You obviously know your Ford models, Heep!
But the Sharan/Galaxy minivan hasn't been around long enough, although a nice try.

btw: This passenger sedan and variants has shared many of its model designations with other various models produced worldwide within the Ford empire over the last 40 years

I hope you quizmasters aren't getting sick of this question! If so, what was the first-ever car fitted with an automatic transmission .. and when?

Heh, sorry, the Sharan wasn't a guess, just the name of the aforementioned VW badged Ford Galaxy :D:D

Here's a 100% original 1973 but don't click 'properties' otherwise its a givaway :alien2:
http://www.todofalcon.com.ar/Fotos/EmbSPT_73.jpg

Knowing what that rear end is of, and being pretty sure someone had already answered, and knowing that you said it wasnt the right answer I clicked properties and had a look.
I have to say its potentialy contentous as to whether it was answered before.
And I have to say that is a rather clever question.
The only problem is I can only read english, (can't give away to many clues) so I can't tell enough about your answer to tell if it qualifies as a seperate model or not.

I had to go back to the original question to rule out a few of my guesses. Since you did specify "passenger car", the C-Series truck was ruled out (which ran from about 1959 until the early 1990s. And then there was the long-lived Transit van.

And "Ford brand" rules out the Daimler limousine and the Volvo 100-200 series as well as the Land Rover Defender (basically unchanged for the better part of 53 years).

Ruling out some of the other guesses, the Fairmont (Fox) greenhouse was used from 1978 until 1986 only (Fairmont/Zephyr, LTD Marquis, Granada/Cougar); the first-generation Fox Mustang did run from 1979 until 1993, but that's only 14 years. The LTD didn't use the same greenhouse (or much of anything) from 1965 through 1982 since it changed platforms in 1979 and changed its basic structure atleast once before that (even the current aged Panther version got a restyled greenhouse in 1992). Agreeing with Thunda, the T-bird changed its basic greenhouse just about every three years from 1958 though 1989. FWD Escorts never ran more than 10 years with the same greenhouse (and I don't think RWD ones did either). While parts might not be exactly interchangable from 1908 through 1927, that was due to more precise production methods more than any redesign.

Are we down to the Argentine or Brazilian versions of North American designs?

Hudson: Your post highlights a very broad knowledge indeed - I hear the Hindustan Ambassador is still going strong too! (Indian-made 1953? Morris Oxford).
And with your final sentence you are RED HOT!

Moppie: The gentle fins of that rear quarter panel are unmistakable, aren't they? I've reviewed my answers, and remain pretty confident I haven't (accidentally) mislead anyone, especially considering its origin. Please point it out if I have though :) as my perception of the English language is of the Australian kind, lol!

Two final clues before you 'triumph' on this one:
The aformentioned VW that replaced this longest-running Ford was based not on a minivan, but the second-generation Passat.
and this terrific racing photo
http://www.todofalcon.com.ar/Futura/TC_30.jpg

Umm, Thunda I put that site through the www.altavista.com translator, and I think Heep did pick it several posts ago. :bandit:

Just goto www.altavista.com click on Translate, and then enter the site URL, select the lanuage and translate.

Im amazed it was made there for so long, and remained so unchanged.
But since right up untill 1991 it remained virtualy the same as the origninal 1961 model Heep did pick it.
But Ill let you be the finnal judge. :) and Heep may yet get the technicaly totaly correct answer.

Brazilian Ford Falcon?

Pssst: It's the Argentinian one.
As you see Heep there is a view that you may have already correctly answered this quiz. If so please accept my apology.
With your oblique post earlier that "The Falcon was only offered in the US for a short time ..." I took your intent as reference to the short-lived American unit, not the Argentine, which to my mind has a distinct and unique identity. Eg: Catera vs Opel vs Holden, and more so than the European vs US Mondeo
But anyway I hope it's been fun for you too

Arriving notably re-engineered as compared to the weak US model (a lesson learned from Australia's cataclysmic '60, no doubt) and manufactured at Ford's General Pacheco plant from 1961 until 1991 it underwent a staggering 8 facelifts during it's 490,000 unit production life, while retaining and remaining essentially the same shell for over 30 long years. A 1967/8 advertisement read "Falcon: The Model T Ford of the year 2000".
Here's some pictures from that excellent Argentinian website
http://www.todofalcon.com.ar/galmodel.htm
Correction: It seems that although the windscreen and all doors were ostentibly identical, the rear window DID change shape in '63 with the adoption of the famous T-Bird C pillar treatment, and thus only ran for 28 consecutive (long) years

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
Pssst: It's the Argentinian one.
As you see Heep there is a view that you may have already correctly answered this quiz. If so please accept my apology.
With your oblique post earlier that "The Falcon was only offered in the US for a short time ..." I took your intent as reference to the short-lived American unit, not the Argentine, which to my mind has a distinct and unique identity. Eg: Catera vs Opel vs Holden, and more so than the European vs US Mondeo


After reading the site with the translater, (which is only really about 60% acurate) Im under the impression that the Argentinian Falcon started life as the US model, but built in the Argen..... plant. When it was droped in the US and changed in Ausie, the Argentinians just kept on making it, by revising and updating everything but the basic body shell.
This would make the car a continuation of the American Falcon.

However it really does come down to an iterpration of the spanish website, and so I could just as easily be wrong, and Thunda you could be right. :D

I've been pondering this too, Moppie, and I appreciate your post.
It's a fascinating crux you've touched on here; what IS the determinant?
Is it based on the initial source of design, or place of actual manufacture?
When does a design become independant, and 'ownership' transfer?
It's especially problematic when there are 3 identically named vehicles, built on 3 continents, with - dare I say it? - 3 degrees of separation.
Thinking about the old Beetle built forever in Mexico .. did it end up a Mexican car, or still German? A bit of both, I guess :confused:

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
490,000 unit production life

Didn't Ford North America sell that many Falcons in the first year?!?

I was half right I guess, but I didn't even know there were Argentine Falcons, so that's not what I was thinking :D:D

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
A 1967/8 advertisement read "Falcon: The Model T Ford of the year 2000".Heh! I was metaphorically right! :D ;) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda

When does a design become independant, and 'ownership' transfer?
It's especially problematic when there are 3 identically named vehicles, built on 3 continents, with - dare I say it? - 3 degrees of separation.
Thinking about the old Beetle built forever in Mexico .. did it end up a Mexican car, or still German? A bit of both, I guess :confused:

How much do you want to discuss this?
(and I should warn you, Im only 2weeks away from having a degree in Philosophy. :D )


But while were all thinking about it, heres a question:
What was the first mass produced 4dr saloon/sedan to have frount disc brakes? (and year of release, in case my source is wrong. ;) )

All right, I ran across this while doing some research...
Who invented the limited slip differential?

Ohh, two questions:

1) Jaguar XK120
2) ? Torsen.

(not at all sure, especially the last one!)

Philosophy Graduate you say? :eek:
I thought I could hear that wind rustling through the forrest ..

Anyway Moppie, as to your question of which sedan/saloon had front dics brakes .. and by "have" I assume you include factory-optional .. Hmm - lets see .. here's my list of 'possibles'

Those wonderfully idiosyncratic pre-WW2 Lanchesters (Lanchaster?) are the earliest vehicle I can recall that I think utilised disc brakes .. but your "mass produced" stipulation must exclude them.

As an aside (trivia-value only, as I'm sure they weren't offered as 4-doors) I think the early '50's Crossley had them .. but it's arguable in the practical sense as to whether that angry little Micro-Mite qualifies even as a car (lol)

OK then .. here's my shot: The earliest mass produced vehicle to have been equipped with discs (btw a surprisingly innovative design too) was those gorgeous Hemi-Chrysler Imperials .. circa 1955

Failing those .. it must have been ............ the ARGENTINIAN FALCON!

(The mighty Packard offered the 1st LSD, but not sure who invented it)

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda


OK then .. here's my shot: The earliest mass produced vehicle to have been equipped with discs (btw a surprisingly innovative design too) was those gorgeous Hemi-Chrysler Imperials .. circa 1955



hmmm, you might have proved my source wrong, except for one small problem. I can't find any pics of a 4rd Imperial.
Show me one, and you might have it.

4-door Imperials, you mean? 4-dr 1955 Imperials were a popular model.
As regards the optional disc brake system for said Imperials, it was of a novel design, featuring (if memory serves me correctly) expanding discs, rather than contracting calipers - and apparently quite a successful unit - but not offered for long, and with few deliveries - but some '55s did "have" them.
I've read from more than one source (including the quality hardcover 'Chrysler.. by George Damann) that discs were fitted to not only the ultra-luxurious (and hand-made) Ghia limosuines, but also initially catalogued and furnished on some regular '55 Imperials.
But it'd be a tough ask indeed from here to prove and provide delivery numbers as to if (and how many) specifically 4-dr models were actually retailed and delivered, rather than merely offered for sale.

btw: speaking of Chrysler brakes, a '53 Hemi-Chrysler Saratoga proved its performance superiority by winning its class (and by an enormous margin) against all comers in the famous Italian Mille Miglia road race - despite being totally brakeless for the final 3rd of the distance.

ps: What were you thinking of? The Mk II Jag?

Anyone care to nominate the first mass-produced traversely-fitted six cylinder passenger car? (It's not the current Volvo S80)

Well, I'm sure this isn't it (the transverse 6), there's probly some 30's car or something that did it, but all I can think of is Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz. They were offered with a transverse 6, much like the Contour/Mondeo that replaced then. They preceded the S80, and also the Alfa 164.

So it wasnt the XK120??

Well Heep thanks for having a go at it!
The earliest traverse FWD-6 I can think of was released just over 30 years ago (and was btw an in-line engine too) but as the cornucopia of automotive history has proved to me through these pages before there may indeed be a vehicle prior to this.
Can anyone nominate one?
Also Heep, you really displayed your sportsmanship for all to see as regards the Argentine Falcon debacle and I can't let that pass without publicly thanking you for that too :cool: It's tough isn't it when questions (and answers) aren't explicitly and implicitly defined to the max (witness the current doubts about the '55 Imperial, which was at least ostensibly available with 4-wheel discs)
.. but what the hell - it's fun anyway! :D

ps Chris: the XK120 was a 2-door, and I think it had drum brakes, which I'm told were prone to overheating, as was the engine!

I picked it because Jaguar pioneered the use of disc brakes in racing at about the same time.

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
4-door Imperials, you mean? 4-dr 1955 Imperials were a popular model.
As regards the optional disc brake system for said Imperials

I want fitted as standard, not as an option.
The car im thinking of had four doors, drum braked year, and standard disc braked frount end. It was in production for 18 years, and also set standards for ergonomics, ride quality and suspension design.
and its not the MKII jag, but your closer than the Imperial. :D

Frount engined transverse 6? not a Saab? or were they still playing with two strokes back then?

Thanks for your clues Moppie, which point me to the only conclusion:
Andre Citroen's utterly fabulous DS aka the Goddess, Sharknose etc.
btw the Dutch cutely nickname them 'Snookers' coz of the long nose
One day I will trade my P-38 for one of these beauties!
My woodwork teacher way back when had one of those gigantic 'Break' wagons, and I can still remember my awe when riding in it - a totally different motoring experience, one to be highly recommended for A-Fers. It's a highly significant car, and thus a noble quiz. So the ID model used drums, eh?
Saab repaced their seize-prone cornpoppers with the nose heavy Ford V4 - both north/south mount I think - in the mid sixties to pass US emission laws, but Saab didn't offer a 6 until the Opel-engined (V6) Vectra platform-based 900, is that so?

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
Thanks for your clues Moppie, which point me to the only conclusion:
Andre Citroen's utterly fabulous DS aka the Goddess,

ahh, now here comes the ultimate test of my source.
The car im thinking of was released in 1963, when was the first DS?

Actually, come to think of it, the Saab 93 3cyl and 95 V4 may have used a traverse engine, but no sixes.
As for the traverse-6 FWD question, the one I have in mind also used an unusual suspension system, as well as the in-line motor
Can't help you with the release date for the DS, sorry.
I thought I could see the strip speedo of a P6 looming, but there was another sedan, also released by a then still independant outfit, which slightly preceded that in '62, and was very much in the vanguard .. but I can't for the life of me ...
btw, no discs for the ID, or Mercedes-Benz? .. and I wonder about Tatra and other obscurities like Panhard Levassor, NSU, Hansa, Borgward etc? :)

I think the DS was around 64ish?
Im sure Merc and Fiat released frount disc braked cars later in the same year, and deffintly did the next year, but this car was released first.
Its also rather common, and chances are if you havnt driven one, you've seen one. (although they wern't as common in aussie as else where)