Pulls to right

I have a 92 wagon. When I got it, it was in bad shape. I put a engine in it, both tie rod ends, struts,tires and wheels, new rotors and had the front end aligned.
It pulls to the right. Also the streering wheel is not centered, it is 1/4 turn to the left. The guy at the shop told me that to get it in alignment he had to unscrew the passenger side tie rod so far that he could not straighten the wheel any more. There wouldn't be enough threads to hold the tie rod to the inner tie rod safely. He also said he got everything within spec's, so I thought all was fine. It still pulled. OK so I figured the sub frame was out of alignment and I got under it and adjusted it. It wasn't out very much. No change. I also checked that the streering wheel was positioned in the center of travel, it was perfect. Before I did anything to it, it was pulling to the right alittle, but the steering wheel was 1/4 turn to the right. I checked the frame as best I could, there doesn't seem to be any damage, or signs of repair. I don't know what to do next. Has anybody out there run in to this problem before?

Thanks
Nick

Any evidence that the car has been in an accident before? It seems very unlikely that a "straight" car would have a steering assembly so far off.

-Rod

That was one of the first things I thought of. The front door and fender on the passenger side are dented, but not bad enough to cause this. I checked the body underneath them and there's no sign of damage or distortion. It really doesn't make sense to me. I'm wondering if the person who had it before me moved the u-joint on the streering wheel shalf where it connects to the rack. That might explain part of the problem.
Thanks
Nick

I'm pretty sure whenever you replace tierods / tierod ends, you need to get the car aligned.

True, it is wise to have an alignment performed when a suspension or steering component is replaced, but if the car is straight, there should be more than enough threads on the adjustable parts to align the car AND have a straight steering wheel. Something on this car is not correct.

-Rod

I'm not sure if it has been in an accident I don't know the previous owners. It doesn't show any signs of major damage or distortion. That's what makes it so hard to figure. As much as it is off you would think that it would be easy to find some signs of damage.

Thanks
Nick

yes, if it pulls its a tire! also i dont buy the tie rod story your told, unless the frame is bent. tow in, tow out or on the mark either way the wheels are going find center line. switch tires and see if it pulls the other way

I not only rotated the tires I put different tires and rims on it. No change.

Nick

hummmm . . . did you jack up the front end and spin the wheels to see if there is any brake or bearing drag? If its the same try the same test after the brakes are HOT and Cold also whale the front ends up in the air, tap the pedle to see if the calipers is sticking.
Take a tap measure and accruetly measure and compare the distants between the front of the back tire and the back of the front tire. I would assume they should be the same (be sure tire presure is the same on all four) or no wait measure it from the rim serfice not the tire.
Are you compairing the pull on a perfict road(s)?

"yes, if it pulls its a tire! also i dont buy the tie rod story your told, unless the frame is bent." You already switched tires so doubt that's the problem.

"I checked the frame as best I could," No way you can check the frame with the same degree of precision a frame & body shop does. Take it to *another* good frame & body shop and explain what's going on and ask them to take a look-see to detect accident work and if there is have them check the frame because if it's bent you'll never get it to track straight. Doubtful a brake pad is dragging because it would get hot and you'd smell it. From what I see, about the only thing you haven't done is have the framed checked by a professional.

Costs $20. to run a car fax at www.carfax.com (http://www.crafax.com) and it should show wrecks.

I'm with Huney1 on this, take it to a body shop and have them check the unibody for structural damage and straightness.

Don't rely on a Carfax report since Carfax will only know as much as the insurance company knows. If an accident was not reported to the insurance company, it will likely not show up in Carfax. If the unibody is damaged, any accident repair work was probably not done professionally, and therefore an insurance company may not have been involved.

-Rod

you may or may not be as accuret as a alinment shop but if you think about how and what your doing to measure you will be within 1/16" -1/8". your not going to feel pull by off 1/8" (front to back) and if it's off by an obvious amount 1/2" or more which you are going to see right now, youll know this is most likely where the problem is or its been hit . . . point is its a cheep place to start.
profesional aliments are not as accuret as you think. I can do toe in toe out with a long adjustable rod and be within .025" which will change at the very next pot hole you hit.

But there is more to a professional alignment than just toe measurements, more more than just toe can cause a pull. Professional alignment systems also measure caster (front and rear), camber (front and rear), thrust angle, and rear toe. You'll have a hard time getting all these measurements within factory specifications using a string or long bar. I'm not trying to say you can't get by doing this, if you are starting with a straight car. However, in this case, I think the owner would be best off to get the car checked by a professional.

At the very least, he'll find out that the car IS straight and can then focus his efforts on other options. And, he can apply your methods in the future and be reasonably certain the results will be reasonably accurate.

Besides, a professional alignment, if it the alignment is not off by much, will cost him less than a set of tires and hopefully prevent him from needing to replace tires prematurely.

-Rod

Well said Rod and thanks for the confirmation. I am by no means a frame and body man but used my old horse sense, i.e.; first things first.

Okey dokey then. To all the great folks that participate in and visit the forum;
From the LowCountry swamps of S Carolina where it's 53F going to 70F today,
A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE AND WE WISH YOU HEALTH, PEACE, LOVE, HAPINESS AND PROSPERITY IN 2007 AND GOD BLESS THE USA!

I've had bad tires on my car from March - November. In that short amount of time the belts went bad in 1 or 2 of them and the car feather edged the inside of the right front tire. It pulls to the right.

I swapped on my winter tires and it doesn't pull to the right so bad or shake but it's still out of alignment.

He said he did get a shop alinment but it didnt fix the problem. I wonder if he has a rear aliment problem causing the front to pull? when he does get it fixed i hope he post a message . . what was the cause.

Having the frame checked isn't the same as an alignment,

:) First of all I want to thank you each and every one that tried to give me a lead on how to fix this. They were all good suggestions, none solved the problem, but by eliminating them I ruled out the things that were not a problem. You can believe me I racked my brain at this. My next step was to take it to have the frame checked even though I knew it wasn't the problem. I couldn't think of anything else to do. I decided to recheck everything and I started back at the fact that the steering wheel wasn't straight after the alignment. The shop told me that they couldn't straighten the steering wheel because the passenger side tie rod was out of threads, and it would be unsafe to adjust it any further. I took the tie rod off and lo and behold they were wrong. The driver side tie rod had 2 1/2 inches of thread, the passenger side had 4 inches. They were going by the amount of threads that they could see without unscrewing the tie rod end to verify the true amount of threads on the rod that screws into the tie rod end. After finding this, I adjusted the tie rods so that the steering wheel was straight. The car no longer pulls. The only reason I can come up with that makes sense is that because the steering wheel (Rack) was not in it's proper position the power steering was trying to center it. With the wheels adjusted so that the car would veer to the right when the steering wheel was centered, the car seemed to pull to the right. Holding the steering wheel slightly to the left gave you a feeling of the car pulling to the right because the power steering was trying to center the wheel (Rack). Well at least that's my guess of what was happening. I hope that I put it into words correctly because I'm Italian and find it very hard to write a good email without hand and arm movements.
Again I Thank All You for your help
Nick :biggrin:

"The shop told me that they couldn't straighten the steering wheel because the passenger side tie rod was out of threads, and . . . etc. The driver side tie rod had 2 1/2 inches of thread, the passenger side had 4 inches. They were going by the amount of threads that they could see without unscrewing the tie rod end to verify the true amount of threads on the rod that screws into the tie rod end."

Sad but true; The incompetence in the auto repair industry is astounding. There are some good shops but if you find one consider it a treasure. I hope you give them a piece of your mind and ask them for a refund for causing you so much time and aggrivation. Main thing is you got it fixed and we wish you many miles of happy carefree motoring and the best in 07.

I had a shop tell me the main computer in my 03 Vulcan was bad and needed replacing. I mentioned it to the guy behind the counter at Auto Zone and he said when I got home disconnect the negative battery terminal and leave it loose all night and it would re-set the computer to factory new. :dunno: Next morning I hooked it up, cranked up and let idle 15 min then went about my business and lo and behold my Taurus was healed, no more roughg idle, no surging and it has been running great for 6K miles. :)

I went back to the shop and said the $75. bucks you charged me for diagnostic was for naught and the man at Auto Zone did a better job FREE with a marvelous tool called E X P E R I E N C E. Wouldn't refund my money but said they'd give me a free oil change or credit it to future repairs. OK, better than nothing.

Nick, thank you for the follow-up with details on what the problem likely was. Also, thank you for understanding that even with the support of all of us on the forum, you may not always get an answer.:dunno: