loud clicking noise while engine idling

First of all, let me state that I am a dumbass, as I did not have this problem until holding a 15 second e-brake burnout earlier, where smoke not only came out from the tires, but the engine compartment as well >_<

Car info is in my sig. I'm now noticing that when the engine is idling, I can hear a loud clicking noise coming from the engine itself, much louder than ever before. It's sounds as if this clicking is hitting the block. Anyways, the smell of burning rubber is _still_ under the hood, even after driving 12 miles at speeds over 60mph and letting the car sit for a couple of hours.

When I apply a very slight throttle, the car "jumps". The RPM will jump a bit, then fall back down, then jump up again. The tranny does not feel like it's shifting either, just the rpm going up and down, although not too much it is indeed noticeable.

Also, when I had first started the car up, I let it get warm, and did not notice any troubles as I was talking with my gf. However, as soon as I dropped it into reverse, the car felt as if it wanted to stall out, as in the rpm dropped very low, but it came back around. I noticed the jerky feeling quite a bit in reverse.

I went to the AZ troubleshooting guide, and it's pointing to oil problems. The oil in my car is 3100 miles old. It is dark, but it is not gunky. I added a quart a week ago. I was trying to hold off of changing the oil for just a bit longer until I scrap a few extra bucks to switch to synthetic.

I have 112957 miles, the oil 145 miles over the 3000 mark. When I did that burnout, I know my engine hit extremely high rpm, but cannot tell you how high as I never hooked up the tach yet in my new cluster. It never did shift into 2nd, which is why I backed off.

Does it sound like to you guys it's just a simple oil change needed, or is there a much deeper problem? I'd like to get input on this before I shell out money for synthetic oil if it isn't going to do me any good if something else is wrong. I'd rather put the money into the real problem :)

Thanks.

Its hard to say for sure, but if its a loud tap from inside the enigne...
You could have bent a pushrod, or broke a lifter, damanged a vavle. :yikes:

Might get that oil changed asap and see if it doesnt clear up the noise.

With the Chuging when you went to REV, hum you could have a TCC going bad now.

Might also check for and DT codes and see if that helps.

Good Luck

The oil is changing right now, letting the final drips out (not using synthetic this time :().

One thing I would like to add, that I forgot about until now: my cruise control no longer works. The last time I used it successfully was about 300 miles ago, but it no longer works.

Another thing that's hit me: the lockup will NOT engage at speeds over 40mph. My fuel economy has been ridiculous this past tank as well, only 130 miles on half a tank, 8 gallons of gas. Where I usually get 20mpg, I'm only getting a bit over 15? When the lockup does engage at the lower speeds, it does so very hard, as in you can feel the whole car jerk.

I had the L/U replaced about 7 months ago by Aamco. If that's what it is, it should still be under warranty.

I would NOT be surprised if it was the TCC, I've had problems with that and the lockup solenoid in the past. I don't have a code scanner and I'm dead ass broke until Thursday. Hopefully this oil change works (and I'm not letting walmart do it this time, they love to put in the wrong kind of oil -_-)

Do you know where I can go to get codes off of an OBD1 system for free? AZ said they can't do it, that they only do OBD2 systems.

You can get the codes using a folded paper clip.
with the key in the on position, engine not running touch the last two contacts on the right side of the OBD 1 receptacle under the dash near the steering wheel. You will need to count the check engine light blinks to get the codes. Example the first code you will get should be 12, which means key on engine not running
One blink a quick time out then two blinks= 12 I believe the first code will repeat 2 times then the next code will start, until its finished then they will repeat again.
A helper to write down the codes will make it easier because they come out fast.

I tried the paper clip trick. All it did was turn the radiator fan on O_o. Are you sure those are supposed to be the right receptacles?

BTW, the oil change didn't help anything. New oil filter, air filter, and the correct grade of oil this time were of no help. I'm more and more believing it's a tranny problem, especially with that lockup failing to engage and my lack of cruise control.


EDIT: Geez, I wish I could change the topic title now. I hear the clicking noise when I'm in the cabin going over 30mph and no/very slight throttle. When it drops below 30, the clicking stops. It does indeed sound like it's coming from the engine compartment.

Also, my car stalled out on me while going in reverse. As soon as I dropped it out of reverse into drive, it stalled out. The car started right back up and ran better in drive, but I still have these symptoms.

I'm going to put my old cluster back in tonight after work so I can get the s/e/s light and try to get the codes, but I'm positive that the right two receptacles made the radiator fan turn on @_@

I put my old cluster back in so I could have a working ses light.

All I got was code 12s.

I'm going to try to find the TCC and unhook that and see how it runs. I stalled out in reverse last night, again, and this time it was a lot harder to start afterwards (I was on a hill, car pointed downhill).

If it runs better with the trans plug disconnected then its most likly your TCC is bad.

Good Luck

This is weird.

After I put my cluster back in, I did the diagnostics and crap. Well, I couldn't find where the TCC plug is (can anyone help me out here), so obviously I left it plugged in.

I drove with my old cluster in, and guess what: my cruise control works again, and my lockup is engaging when it should be.

Still, the problem persists. Where is the TCC at? It's almost now as if the clutch is slipping, and it keeps going back and forth, and I lose speed when it's going in that cycle, until I apply at least 1/4 throttle (yes, I can go from 30 down to <20 if I leave the throttle slightly applied, whereas if I don't use the throttle at all, I'll idle at around 30 and maintain that speed for the most part). But I can't tell if it's from 2nd-3rd or 3rd-lockup. I won't be able to tell until I can find where to unhook the TCC.


Also, I checked the tranny fluid. For the most part it's red like it should be, and I believe at the right level, but unless I'm mistaken, there's crap in it. Black crap that's scattered about (according to wiping off the dipstick).

My jaw just dropped.

It hit me, that I only apply a very slight throttle when I'm at a higher gear. I apply more throttle during take off, so...

I had my car parked, e-brake on, and dropped it into neutral. I applied a very slight throttle, and guess what:

the engine nearly stalls out. It cuts down to a very low rpm (I don't have a tach, but my ears aren't stupid :P) and nearly stalls. Afterwards, I applied WOT and hit the rev limiter a few times. I could not reproduce the slight throttle problem afterwards, for now.

Now it's looking more and more like a fuel delivery problem. What I don't understand is why no throttle is pushing out more RPM then a very slight throttle.

Any ideas on this? I've just eliminated the tranny as the culprit.

To answer your first question the TCC is inside the valve body on the driverside of the trany. The trans harness is on top of the trans, thats what you could have unpluged.

With the fuel,
its quiet possible thats could be your troubles.
If the fuel filter is clogged, at low throttle you can suck fuel, but under heavy throttle it stops he flow.
Try changing the fuel filter, they should be changed every 30-40k miles.

Hope that helps, let me know if it works out!

Fuel filter is something I had wanted to try a few thousand miles ago, but I could not get the thing off. I never changed one before, so the way it's mounted is really strange to me (it's an in-line filter near the fuel tank, left hand side by the rear wheel.) I bought the new filter from AZ a couple months ago, and all it's done was collect dust on my back seat :( (hopefully I can just blow the dust out and be ok).

Can you offer steps/tips on how to remove it? It's all quite a mystery to me, but I'm confident once I know what's I'm supposed to do, I'll be able to do this.

Here is a link that should help you out.
the zone (http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0e/e9/ae/0900823d800ee9ae.jsp)

You'll have to scroll down to find your engine.

Hope that helps !

Yeah, I saw that before. Here's where I get lost:
Remove the filter bracket attaching screw(s) and filter bracket.


Grasp the filter and 1 fuel line fitting. Twist the quick-connect fitting 1/4 turn in each direction to loosen any dirt within the fitting. Repeat for the other fuel line fitting.

Use compressed air, blow out dirt from the quick-connect fittings at both ends of the fuel filter.

To disconnect the fuel line fittings, squeeze the plastic tabs on the male end of the connector and pull the fitting apart. Repeat for the other fitting

Remove the fuel filter.


What exactly is the filter bracket and its attaching screw? I can understand the fitting part I believe. Is it saying after cleaning crap off of it, to take the fitting out of the line itself, or out of the filter...I don't quite understand this. Can you provide a bit more insight?

Thanks.

Sorry about the confusion!

Thiers a metal piece wrapped around the filter that holds the filter to the car.
Loosen that first, then twist the plastic clips that are attached to the fuel lines.
I would move them back and forth as stated so no dirt gets into the fuel system.

I'm sorry, I just can't seem to get it. I've tried twisting the filter and nuts in every which way, but nothing will loosen or even budge. Also, I did not see a bracket anywhere. Here is a picture of the filter, maybe I not grasping the right thing or whatever, but this is a pain in the ass:

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9223/dscn0416fu6.jpg

EDIT: My coworker took a look at the pic, and told me what I needed to do, which is what I have been doing. Oh well, I'll try again tomorrow, and I'll coat that SOB in WD-40.

After I strip the rest of my lug nuts because Firestone felt like putting on 2 ft/tons of torque on the nuts -_-

Well...that was a TOTAL PAIN IN THE ASS WITH RUSTED ON FITTINGS.

Now that I got that out of the way :)

The directions on AZ were nowhere near what I had to do. Anyways, after 4 hours, I finally got the new one on. As soon as I turned to the accessory switch, I noticed a huge difference. Instead of hearing a low hum, I hear a quiet hiss from the fuel pump. I started the car, and could not reproduce the stall out problem.

That hiss does kinda worry me, but I could not find any leaks. Guess I'll know if there's a leak if my car runs out of gas within the next 10 miles @_@

sorry for the poor directions.

Plus I should have said you would need two line wrenches to loosen/tighten them.

Cool you got it fixed tho!!

the hiss you hear may be your O2 sensor inthe exhaust warming up .

Bad news...

The problem still persists. It seems to occur only after the car has warmed up though.

What could be next? I have a clean line up to the injectors now, but I used that gumout fuel injection cleaner several months ago.

My wireset is a little over 1000 miles old, and the spark plugs are about 3000 miles old. Wires appear to be fine, haven't inspected spark plugs yet (don't want to if I don't have to :P)

I'm not sure if the O2 sensor is gone yet or not...as I said this didn't happen until I did a nasty burnout and smoke and rubber had gone all over the place, including in the engine compartment.

But the ecm is NOT giving any codes to work with. All it flashes is code 12

Oh my god HELP, how do I repair this one?

I found a HUGE problem, and this one is scaring the s*** out of me. Image follows, I think this HAS to be the problem. Oh god I hope there was no serious damage done to the engine throughout this time ;_;

Please help me here, where do I go from here?

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/3475/manifoldscrewedcx2.jpg

I have no clue on what you are talking about in that pic :confused:

I wouldnt be surprised if the motor is ready to crap out since you run the piss out of it.
Being an 88' 2.8 thiers many things that could be wrong/damaged internally, like I said before, that could cause problems.

Look at the center, where the intake manifold? meets the engine.

Notice the fact that they are now separated, and part of the engine's intake is exposed.

In other words, some of the air is not going through the filter and the MAF, some is going directly into the engine. How do I fix this?

the gap from that torx screw to the right, that gap?

Its always been their.

This should help:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7192/manifoldscrewed2jh2.jpg

Oh that just looks like its clean and shiny.
Maybe like something has rubbed it,
or possibley an air leak.

I dont see any cracks.

But thats your throtle body anyways, not the intake.
The black tube is the air intake tube....

Remove the hose clamp on the air tube,
and see if the TB is cracked behind the hose.
If so it'll need replaced.

here is a blow up of that area (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/11X17RW24/nocrack.jpg).

If I could put :2cents: worth It seems to me that the rubber boot with the clamp on it should fit over the throat(the round part that is shiney) all the way up to where the mating surfaces join-where the torx bolts are.

So it should just be a simple loosen the clamp, slide it over and then tighten the clamp? *can't try it right now as it's dark outside* The clamp we're referring to metal clip-like thing that is within the red circle in my pic correct?

xeroinfinity, my intake is NOT attached to the TB, that's why there's a huge separation there, and unfortunately I just noticed earlier today, so who knows how much unfiltered air got into the engine. That might explain why I didn't have problems until the burnout, if that was separated before all of that burnt rubber would've gotten in, and if that's the case I'm probably ****ed...

I'll see how this goes...

I put the hose back on the TB, and clamped it tightly.

I don't really notice the jerking anymore while driving, but my car continues to stall out while idling after giving it a small push.

I don't know what else to do, the ecm is still not giving me anything but code 12s.

Note, this only seems to happen when the car is warm. I'm thinking there's a faulty sensor _somewhere_ that isn't exposed until the ecm goes into open loop after it is warm. I realize the lockup doesn't engage until open loop occurs, but that really shouldn't have anything to do with this.

Any other ideas?

What Lock up are you talking about?

Its hard to say where to go from here.

You have thrown around about 50 differnt syptoms
and issues that may or may not even be a contributing factor in the idle or the loud ticking you here.

Need to be more specific ....

Lockup...the lockup solenoid, the thing that locks up the torque converter to provide the engine direct access to the transmission...

I'll restate this since everything has gone all over the place :(

I did not have problems until I did a 15-second e-brake burnout that sent smoke flying everywhere, including into the engine compartment.

Along the ways of troubleshooting, I have already replaced the fuel filter. I also have changed the oil, oil filter and the air filter. I also put the intake hose back onto the throttle body: it was not attached! I only get Code 12 now.

Now, here are the symptoms:

While engine is still cold, the car will not stall out or make any loud ticking noise at speeds above 30mph. The car is most likely still in open loop at this point.

When the car goes into closed loop, that's easy to tell of course, because that is when the lockup is allowed to engage, so I know when the car is in closed loop and when it is in open loop.

When the ecm is in closed loop is when I notice the problems. After a partial throttle and letting up quickly, the engine nearly stalls out most of the time: sometimes it will stall out, period. This occurs when the throttle is released quickly.

Also, while in closed loop, I can notice a loud ticking noise that occurs after hard acceleration, and then letting the engine coast along at idle. The ticking noise seems to be coming from the engine compartment, and immediately ceases once the speed drops below exactly 30. As soon as it hits exactly 30 again, that noise comes back, and increases and decreases in frequency with speed. This may or may not be related to the stall out.

Now, I went to my trusty service manual earlier tonight to read how the ECM handles fuel delivery while in open loop (engine cold). The manual states that while in open loop, the ecm does NOT use the O2 sensor to calculate the air/fuel mixture. However, once in closed loop, the ecm PRIMARILY uses the O2 sensor to calculate the air/fuel mixture.

After reading that part...I want to replace the O2 sensor, but I am not getting anything but Code 12. The ECM is telling me nothing to indicate any faulty sensors, but I really want to take care of this problem. But then there's that ticking noise that may or may not be related.

Let's just tackle this one at a time, first priority should be getting the car to stop stalling out, then we'll focus on that ticking sound.

Ok lets see if we cant tackle this....

On the stalling ,
Your Tcc is most likly the culprit causing the stall when the engine is warmed up.
Their is a large wire harness plug for the trany on top of it,
if you unplug that harness and your stall goes away(when warmed up)then the TCC needs replaced.

the TCC at speeds greater then 30mph, locks the torqu converter for economy. So when you come to a stop, if the Tcc is bad, it wont unlock the converter so its like stoping in a manual trany and not pushing in on the clutch.
So it then stalls, bucks, and kicks till you take it out of gear or you speed up.


Now for the ticking,
This one will be tricky to isolate, simply because thiers more then one thing that can cause the noise(s).

You could have a broken/sticking lifter, or bent a push rod from burning out.

So what grade of oil did you just use?
A lighter weight oil, say 5w-30 could help quiet the lifters if they are just dirty or sticking.

But if that doesnt fix the ticking,
then you might consider taking it apart or taking somewhere to have it properly checked over.
If I remember right the 2.8 is a noisy motor anyway.

Hope that helps clearify things !

i'd say oil pump to check first and i believe it's on the outside of moter on right side..my dodge dart swinger done same thing on 1 of those burn outs..8 the sh.t out of of oil pump....mite have a look under valve covers 2....good luck

SCRAPPER...

Crap, I just noticed I wasn't entirely clear about the stall out problem...

I didn't mean stalls out over 30mph, that's what I meant when the ticking noise will begin.:banghead:

I seem to only actually stall out at very low speeds, 0-3mph, even while in Park or Neutral, so I know for a fact it's not the TCC.:frown: Please don't take this as not wanting to troubleshoot...

And it makes me believe the O2 sensor is going bad since that's how the ECM calculates air/fuel mixture once in closed loop, but I thought the ECM would throw some sort of error code at me.

I'm using Valvoline Maxlife 5W30. I always went to walmart before and they would put in Quaker State 10W30, which isn't the correct grade, so I decided to just change the oil myself and pass up the low price that included getting my car vacuumed and cleaned out :(

I'll see if I can make some sort of short video clip that will demonstrate all of this. It might help better.

I meant when you are going 30mph,
or below is when the stalling occurs...
This is when the Tcc will give you the most trouble,
but since you seem to think otherwise.

On your car it probly wont throw a code if the O2 is bad.
I just dont think that has anything to do with what you are experiencing .

How many miles are on this engine ?
And when was the last tune up(plugs & wires) ??

Try and isolate the noise.
Get a pipe or long tube and listen around on the engine while its running and see if you cant locate where it is coming from exactly.

If you expect to find the problem you are going to have to get dirty, rather then paying someone else who's qualified to trouble shoot the situation.

Let me know what you find out !

Post 18 from me states my plugs/wireset mileage. The engine mileage is in the first post @_@

And I know for a fact it's not the TCC because I can stall out while in park and neutral, something the TCC never touches.

I'm going to try to replace my pcv valve tomorrow to see if that helps any.

Well, just a small update. I never replaced the pcv valve, I couldn't get the damn valve out of the hose :\ But the valve definitely had vacuum, although each time I tested its vacuum with my thumb it would leave oil on my thumb. Is this normal and how am I supposed to remove the valve from the hose? Yank it out with as much force as I can or is there another way?

Also, I'm still noticing this problem with the occasional stallout, but no major damage has occurred as of yet. The ticking noise still persists, yada yada. I might look into replacing the TPS as I doubt it's working properly anyways, seems to be sticking. When lockup is engaged, I can usually move the gas pedal down about a quarter of the way down and lockup will not disengage until I apply a much heavier throttle. Throttle in low gears is crap as well.

as long as its like not like a quart of oil thats okay.

what i did was i pushed the hose torwards the manifold so it wouldn't come out, since i couldn't see where it went back in. but while pushing, i pulled like hell on the valve while twisting it back and forth. it will eventually come loose.

have you lost any coolant? hows the oil look?

I don't have any of the problems that you describe, however, my tranny doesn't come out of lockup without more than a quarter throttle. I always thought that was normal though.

Tonglebeak, as far as your ticking goes its either your lifters or the vavles/rocker arms.

Try some seafoam oil treatment this should clear up a lifter tick.

And about the trany troubles, if its realy bad your best bet is to take it to a trans shop that can properly diagnose the problems.

Btw- a fluid and filter change does wonders :grinyes:

Btw- a fluid and filter change does wonders :grinyes:

I'm certain I saw him type it in this thread somewhere that he saw debris in the trans fluid... I agree with the above statement. I also believe thats the least of your worries. You put a lot of strain on that motor, which wasn't designed for such things... you have buggered something in the heads without a doubt.