Matrix Borrowed Engine from Celica

The Toyota Matrix... see what you think:


http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6482

maybe this will bring out more mods for the vvtl-i. I'm sure it can't hurt to have more Toyotas out there :)

plus, the PT cruiser is such a dog...... my friend rented one and a kid on a scooter passed him :lol2:

Originally posted by RiceRocket
The Toyota Matrix... see what you think:


http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6482



How, how many Hp does that Scooter have, like 30hp maybe at the wheels? hehehehehe :flash:

It depends on what they ate for breakfast....... I would say 30 hp is probably a good estimate on a couple of pop tarts.. :p

btw- I'm new to the forums, I just bought a 2001 Celica GTS about 3 weeks ago. It has the "action package" on it and handles like a go-kart... I love it :frog:

I love the action package GTS, they look tight... there's already a pretty good base of aftermarket parts for the GTS... any upgrade plans at this moment? Slam it, get some rims, exhaust, intake.... hehhehe good luck! hope to see some modded pics soon.

By the way, Welcome to AF!

Matrix is underpowered big time. 2ZZGE engine was great for Celica because it weight in the 2500 lbs. Matrix is a much bigger car and it also have AWD option. AWD Matrix will be close to 3000 lbs. 2ZZGE is not a great choice for the job on hand.

Originally posted by F20C
Matrix is underpowered big time. 2ZZGE engine was great for Celica because it weight in the 2500 lbs. Matrix is a much bigger car and it also have AWD option. AWD Matrix will be close to 3000 lbs. 2ZZGE is not a great choice for the job on hand.

That is true, but compared to chrysler PT cruiser and other vehicles of the same level, this seems to be a better option as far as Hp is concerned (although there is lesser torque).

And it will be nice when aftermarket parts finally come for this engine; since i believe this already a Turbocharger available from XS Engineering for the Celica GT-S. It added 251.2 (upgraded output) @ WHP. Although it is not 50-state smog legal ... yet.

Originally posted by RiceRocket
...XS Engineering...I know that shop. :D Small world.

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

As far as mods go, not much going on yet. I picked up a K&N air filter last week and today the Toyota dealer is putting on my TRD exhaust
:frog: I should be able to pick it up in another hour or so....
I love the sound of it, and I couldn't beat the price ($450)

Does anybody have the info on how to disable the DRL? I found it once but now all the links I find are dead. I hate having those lights on in the daytime. I feel like a ticket magnet!

I also want to put a CAI or short intake in but I want to research it some more. I figure I'll need a AFC cause the mixture has got to change, but I am not sure the ecu will be able to handle it. Any feedback on that?

Heres a pic of my car, I'll get more soon!

btw: I'm representing Charlotte NC so if there are any other Celica drivers out there feel free to contact me...

Peace
JET

Originally posted by JET55
Does anybody have the info on how to disable the DRL? I found it once but now all the links I find are dead. I hate having those lights on in the daytime. I feel like a ticket magnet!I love DRLs. I wish all cars had them. :(

2ZZGE is a high reving engine much like my F20C. You don't reach full potential until past 6000RPM. Ever thought of pulling a 3000lbs car in city driving? Painful and hard to move along that's exactly what you will get in a AWD Matrix. PT cruiser has 32 lbs more torque and it is reach 2800 rpms earlier. That will help it tow along although the car weights more. PT cruiser is consider underpowered as well.

Better turn those lights off! When i first got my integra (and was driving it like it was new)... i had my lights on and before i knew it there was this cop hidden in the corner and definitely saw me and pulled me over... it sux... it was a beautiful day too.

Anyhoo... i prefer turning my lights off now since i think when the cops see the lights the only thing they can think of is ...."follow the light...follow the light"

Peace!

I wouldn't say the matrix is underpowered. It would dust a pt cruiser
fa sho. 180hp Should be enough to make it move pretty quick. If it
has an AWD function than it would be even quicker. Shit my infiniti g20
weighs in at about 3000 lbs and only has 140hp. Now that is what you
call underpowered. I tried sooooo hard to get the celica gts but at that
time I had totalled my tercel and need a car quickly and didn't have enough money to put down at tha time. Somebody get me a Kleenex.
Whoever chose the celica gts gets big props from me.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
I wouldn't say the matrix is underpowered. It would dust a pt cruiser
fa sho. 180hp Should be enough to make it move pretty quick. If it
has an AWD function than it would be even quicker. Shit my infiniti g20
weighs in at about 3000 lbs and only has 140hp. Now that is what you
call underpowered. I tried sooooo hard to get the celica gts but at that
time I had totalled my tercel and need a car quickly and didn't have enough money to put down at tha time. Somebody get me a Kleenex.
Whoever chose the celica gts gets big props from me.

180hp is not going to help. You have to rev up to 7000 rpm to enjoy that. For this type of car torque is much needed. Have you ever driven Celica? Well put another 500 lbs to that car and see how it runs.

add 500lbs. Then you get an Infiniti G20. You see. My car weighs 3000lbs. A celica weighs probably 26-2700lbs . But the matrix will still
have 40 more hp than me. It's really not 500 but damn near. It won't
be flyin down tha road but, it won't be anny PT Cruiser. holla back.

I am not sure what you car's spec are. For example gearing, tire, hp curve, torque curve, tranny, CD. A lot of stuff will be take in consideration for determine how fast Matrix is. Sounds to me like G20 is not fast if you can run par with Matrix.

don't be talkin bout my car like dat der. Nah, it is slow, but it has great
handling. Will a little work it can be fast. With a couple bolt on's, it can
run pretty well with. It is just slow off the line. One of the best handling auto's on the road. I need a celica GTS. It's no S200 but I like it.
:D

For performance purposes, 180hp is not enough... heck 250hp is not enough!

But for a ride like this that is targeted towards peeps who loved the PT Cruiser, and aren't really looking for a lot of performance stuff... it'll work. Plus the added value of aftermarket parts being available.

FYI, Pontiac Vibe will be sharing the same platform as the Toyota Matrix... :alien:

Not to put your car down or anything.

But You were making Matrix sound fast by comparing to your car. In reality Matrix will be seen as a underpowered car. Not because it has 180hp rating but where it achieve those rating for this type of car.

Then again I never said it was fast. But 250 would make it zip down the
road. That would be plenty. If you notice. PT Cruisers aren't that big.
It should at least have about 160-170lbs of trq and somewhere around 220hp.

PT Cruiser does have 162 ft-lbs torque at 4000 rpm.

All-wheel drive will not necessarily make a car faster, especially not in a straight line. In most instances it will actually consume power, and the lessening of the percentage of horsepower lost while transferred from the flywheel to the ground through AWD is fairly negligible at only 180 hp. The 2ZZ-GE is fairly skimpy on torque as well, also proving to be a poor match-up for the Matrix.

For further information about the Vibe/Matrix twins (as well as the concept R.E.V./RSC Pon-toya sisters) check this thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t1954-1.html).

AWD is easier to launch however. The stats achieve will be more consistent.

All-wheel-drive also has MANY more parts to break with repeated launches. Folks should use them for what they were intended--road holding prowess and neutral steering, rather than drag racing.

I just want to let you guys know that the 2ZZ-GE Matrix will not be AWD. The less powerful model is the Matrix that will have AWD. The 2ZZ-GE will have 17" wheels, a 6speed, FWD, and will weigh about 2800lbs not 3000. Which makes it about 300lbs heaver than the GT-S. As a simple rule of thumb every 100lbs is worth about .1 second at the dragstrip.

So, with those specs I am willing to bet that the Matrix will be able to pull high 15's right out of the box, or maybe even mid to low 15's with intake and exhaust. Trust me on this guys, people thought that the Celica would be slow due to it's lack of torque. Well, I have changed a lot of people's opions on that one at the track. I can run consistant 14.6's and 14.7's with my car (on a slipping clutch) with just a Cold air intake, exhaust, and full interior.

So if the front-wheel-drive model is powered by a 2ZZ, then what will the all-wheel version be milled by? Why would Toyota want to spend extra time and funding to run the Matrix by two different engines when its cheaper to create a new transmission? Interesting, every rag I've read stated that it will 1) have the 2ZZ-GE (no mention of other engines) and 2) be available in both front- and all-wheel-drive.

I looked the toyota site up and found out that the celica GT's is only like 2580 with a 6spd.

The every 100 lbs = .1 second rule does not work all the time. Try the 2800lbs matrix and I bet you it will not be .3 seconds off Celica GT-S.

I have read nothing but Celica GT-S engine on the Matrix. Where can I find information about this lesser power engine that will powered the AWD Matrix?

Don't tell me they are going to use the non VVTL-i version of the engine. That engine is powerless only 140hp and no torque.

maybe transplant the AWD system on to the Celica GTS? I know they already have one out... the yellow GTS with AWD Turbo'd 450HP.... it's not in production though...

:silly:

That's the one developed by TRD right? Made for the Charity CART race held in California.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
I looked the toyota site up and found out that the celica GT's is only like 2580 with a 6spd.

You mean GT-S, right? The GT is only available with a 5-speed.

Originally posted by F20C
I have read nothing but Celica GT-S engine on the Matrix. Where can I find information about this lesser power engine that will powered the AWD Matrix?

The November issue publications of various magazines are telling a more full story about the Matrix, including a base model engine which will be 130-140 hp and also have available, not standard all-wheel-drive.

Originally posted by RiceRocket
maybe transplant the AWD system on to the Celica GTS? I know they already have one out... the yellow GTS with AWD Turbo'd 450HP.... it's not in production though...

Nice idea, but it would probably take more work than we think getting that rear end into the Celica (the Matrix shares a Corolla platform). Plus the Celica handles great anyway, so no need to add on more weight, no?

As for the turbocharged yellow GT-S with all-wheel-drive, that is a one-off custom created by Rod Millen Motorsports and TRD dubbed "Ultimate Celica", but it doesn't use the 2ZZ-GE, but rather the older 3S-GTE + AWD from the older Celica GT-four/all-trac. Click here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t4587.html) for more information about this car on another Celica thread.

Originally posted by F20C
That's the one developed by TRD right? Made for the Charity CART race held in California.

Actually, it's different from the Ultimate Celica. These cars for the CART Long Beach Grand Prix "Racing for Kids" Pro-Celebrity race are pretty much regular GT-S models but enhanced with safety/race features such as a roll cage, fire control, etc. Other than a visual package (wheels, TRD Sports M spoiler, graphics), I don't think the charity racers have any performance modifications. There could have been a suspension upgrade or a straight-pipe, but I can't remember exactly.

Below are photos of some of these cars (note: there's Melissa Joan Hart under yellow in the Carbon Blue Celica; what a cutie--and she's a competetive racer too!):

More:

Yeah I meant 6spd.

So are you saying AWD will not be offer to GT-S engine? The Ultimate Celica is RED right? For the LBGP I saw them with a Specially done up Yellow Celica. It had a nose much like F1 cars.

It says Matrix AWD will only be offered with the 1.8L engine. It will have 120hp and 130 torque. Along with a different rear suspension layout from the FWD Matrix. That sounds to me like a ultra weak Matrix AWD.

Um, hmm.. our sources are obviously differing, since I hear that the Matrix (from corporate news) will incorporate multi-trim powerplants as well as an available all-wheel-drive. 1.8 liter means that the engine will produce at least 140 hp, as the 1ZZ-FE does on the Celica GT, while a step up will unleash 180 hp with the 2ZZ-GE.

Have you checked the link yet for the 'Ultimate Celica'? Not only is it featured on the internet, but it was a cover car for SEVERAL monthly publications (in yellow, still one-off), with full reviews stating that the automobile was designed solely for publicity for TRD and RMM powered by the infamous 3S-GTE. The Toyota Long Beach Grand Prix Celicas are standard GT-Ss powered by the 2ZZ-GE with mild modifications--and I have seen the past wrecked ones sitting in body shops over the years.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous post.

AWD Matrix and Vibe have 1ZZ-FE engine only. But the spec Toyota and GM give was only 120hp. Also different is multilink independent rear suspension in place of the front-wheel-driver's twist-beam tush

FWD Matrix and Vibe have both 2ZZ-GE and 1ZZ-FE engine.

It looks like many are stating that the entry-level powerplant will produce 130 horses, which is interesting, since that number is slightly lower than the rating mustered by the 1ZZ-FE found in the Celica GT.

F20C: As for your statement on the Matrix Sport using a 2ZZ-GE, and ONLY front-wheel-drive, where can I find this information? I cannot find any sources that either confirm or deny this fact (they all vaguely state that 'it will be offered in three trims with either a 130 or 180 hp engine, with the option of all-wheel-drive' :huh: ). In any case, why would Toyota leave out the AWD in the upscale model? Toyota has been known to make their lineups very linear and simple, unlike Mitsubishi's older Eclipse Spyder which was not available as a GSX, or all-wheel-drive.

I got it from Toyota site.

Engine

Base/XR
1.8L DOHC 16V
VVT-i 4 Cylinder
130hp @ 6000 rpm
125 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

XRS

1.8L DOHC 16V Yamaha enhanced
VVTL-i 4 Cylinder
180hp @ 7600 rpm
130 lb-ft @ 6800 rpm

Transmission

Base/XR
Standard 5 Speed Manual
Optional 4 Speed Auto
Standard with AWD

XRS
Optional 4 Speed Auto
Optional 6 Speed Manual

The 120hp and AWD only with 1ZZ-FE engine came from Car and Driver.

One thing I'm happy about is, the 2ZZ-GE is being used in more than one platform. Hence aftermarket support for this engine should increase to a decent level than it is currently for the Celica GT-S.

Kowwing the engine's characteristics well, I'm not sure if the 2ZZ-GE is the best choice for a Sub 2800lbs Matrix. The car needs more low down torque than outright power that the 2ZZ-GE engine provides.

If an AWD is used/mated with the 2ZZ-GE, I think too much power will be lost to the wheels.

Jason