What the clutch?

A few months ago I got rid of the Mustang because it couldn't seem to keep a clutch. In the 2 years I owned it I went through 4 clutches. Every car I have ever owned has been manual (with the exception of the taurus) and I have never lost a clutch prior to the mustang. I was not even very hard on the car. I only put about 7000 miles on it over a 2 year period. Has anyone else experienced any kind of clutch trouble in this way? I am now convinced that my particular mustang was haunted.

A few months ago I got rid of the Mustang because it couldn't seem to keep a clutch. In the 2 years I owned it I went through 4 clutches. Every car I have ever owned has been manual (with the exception of the taurus) and I have never lost a clutch prior to the mustang. I was not even very hard on the car. I only put about 7000 miles on it over a 2 year period. Has anyone else experienced any kind of clutch trouble in this way? I am now convinced that my particular mustang was haunted.

I can see 1 clutch a year, if your putting 15~20k miles, but not 4 in two years... with ONLY 7000 miles. If your doing that, then it's the style of driving that you have. Your clutch may not have been the right choice to match you.

The people that I have seen tear up clutches typically rest their foot on the clutch petal, or downshift a lot to slow down. Some people shift too soon quite often. Other people flat out abuse the clutch and car and do lots of burnouts because they think anything with a V8 is indistructible. There is another set of people that will keep the clutch partially engauged when stopped at a incline all the time, that will take life out of a clutch.

Generally speaking, a clutch should last atleast 12k miles... hence that is why most auto makers only warrenty the clutch itself for 12k miles. Beyond that, and your on your own.

my clutch has lasted 91k miles so far. what happened to your clutch? just curious. because if it was squeaking really bad, then thats no big deal. mustangs do that all the time. mine has been doing it for quite a while. its just the throw out bearing needing some lube. the clutch will still work just fine.

my clutch has lasted 91k miles so far. what happened to your clutch? just curious. because if it was squeaking really bad, then thats no big deal. mustangs do that all the time. mine has been doing it for quite a while. its just the throw out bearing needing some lube. the clutch will still work just fine.


The throwout bearings shouldn't ever squeek, if it is, then you already have dry bearings and metal to metal contact... and in that case...

I toss them, especially since they are cheap anyways.

The first clutch was worn through, it came with the car so there is no way I can say how the first owner drove the car. The second one squeaked from the minute it was installed. Everytime I would bring it in, the thing stopped until I had it back in my hands. I was fed up with it so I had it replaced, clutch TOB and all. Again, I was never happy with that clutch. Eventually that clutch (possibly more accurately the clutch adjuster) left me with a short pedal travel, squeeling and an overall mushy pedal feel. I decided to take things into my own hands and install everything myself, I replaced the entire setup with a Centerforce unit thinking this would take care of the problem. A couple months later some of the fingers came off the centerforce and that was all she wrote for that. None of the clutch surfaces other than the first showed any real wear. I do not exhibit any of the driving behaviors listed above.

I had a Centerforce on my old Stang. I sold the car with 24k on it. I abused the hell out of, and it was still strong the day I sold it. This is with a S-Trim pushing about 325 to the wheels, and a World Class T5.

Maybe there is an issue with set-up on your Stang. Just throwin it out there, because as far as I know, this is an anomaly.

the T/O bearings making noise seems to be pretty common from what ive read, on mustangs that is. i probably would put a better one on mine, but im broke so it stays for a while longer.

Stang00, I have heard that the TOB was a common cause of squeeks, and one of the times I did experience that. I have no idea what was up with that particular car, especially since those mustangs are generally pretty reliable mechanically. Maybe there was some other cause of error that I wasn't aware of. Skyline, you aren't the first person to have high praises for Centerforce, and thats why I bought it. Oh well, I still don't have a bad taste in my mouth for mustangs. I will get another one. I am thinking of getting a Fox and getting it working well mechanically than in a few years tearing it apart to build the Factory five cobra.

the T/O bearings making noise seems to be pretty common from what ive read, on mustangs that is. i probably would put a better one on mine, but im broke so it stays for a while longer.


Alot of people forget to pack the T/O bearing with grease because they think what is on the TB is good enough...

When you shift do you push the clutch to the floor?

When you shift do you push the clutch to the floor?

if your talking to me, yes.

if your talking to me, yes.


Really? I only push about 1/3rd the way...

Really? I only push about 1/3rd the way...

thats about where mine releases too. i just push it all the way out of habit... i remember someone telling me one time that its better for the clutch to do that. while i didnt necessarily believe them because i dont see the benefit, i thought it could hurt to do it anyway, in case they are right.

I push it all the way to the floor, I don't slam it to the floor but I do push it all the way down every time.

i was watching myself on my way home tonight. i push it all the way to the floor partly because i like to sit close while im driving so i dont have to extend all the way to get the peddle all the way down. so my normal foot motion pushes it in all the way.

my friend has 80k on his stock escort clutch(6yrs)

I have 53k on mine(6years)

? what does that have to do with anything?

my friend has 80k on his stock escort clutch(6yrs)

I have 53k on mine(6years)


Yeah and umm like that is comparable to a mustang making a crap load more torque..

Now if we had a Honda, and that would be a better comparison...

a clutch should still last atleast 90k imo.

a clutch should still last atleast 90k imo.

It depends on power levels, and driver.

a clutch should still last atleast 90k imo.


Yeah if you really baby the clutch and drive like a granny...

But I can tell you that the majority of my friends swap clutches about every 20k miles.. in mustangs.

And Ford only warrenties them for 12k because that's the minimum they feel a clutch should last.

do your friends go to the track every weekend or what? because it should last longer than that no matter what. well i dont know how much power they are making either... its more than me thats for sure. but i dont baby my clutch, i dont really pay attention what i do to it actually. but i dont abuse it constantly either.

90k for a clutch behind a performance enigne, is a pretty steep request. I would be happy with half that mileage :D

I think it's probally the style of driving we may have. We do hit the autocross tracks from time to time. Some of us also hit the 1/4 track. We do a lot of cruises thru windy mountain roads, so we do push the limits often.

Also the amount of power and the rear tire size and weight also affects the life of a clutch as well as the rotational mass that is between the clutch and tires. IF you have no slip at the tires, and lots of power, that clutch need to absorb and contain that power, or it's done..

Most of us have moved up the the Spec II or III clutch or the Centerforce DFX clutch. Those tend to last about 30~35 k miles.

Yeah and umm like that is comparable to a mustang making a crap load more torque..

Now if we had a Honda, and that would be a better comparison...

How do yo know its more tq..i never said what my friend had in his car :)

and if you wernt so ignorant you'd have figured out US i4'smake a lot more tq then Japanese i4's

i guess i was being stupid, my car is stock... so i guess its a lot more realistic for my clutch to last 90k than one like yours with going to the track and whatnot.

altec, US 4 cyl engine might make more tq than japanese ones but they still dont compair in that department to a decent v8.

How do yo know its more tq..i never said what my friend had in his car :)

and if you wernt so ignorant you'd have figured out US i4'smake a lot more tq then Japanese i4's

He was comparing it to a V8:banghead:

A lot more torque, what is a lot more torque?

Longer stroke makes more torque, physics applies to everything in the universe, it just does not miss one country, and appear in another.

Why do you keep bringing up crap, we do not real care about? And has no relevance to the topic.

+1 that japan vs american 4 banger shit is a joke. I could really care less which one makes more torque, they are both pathetic in that department.

How do yo know its more tq..i never said what my friend had in his car :)

and if you wernt so ignorant you'd have figured out US i4'smake a lot more tq then Japanese i4's


hey dumb ass..... let me quote myself..
Yeah and umm like that is comparable to a mustang making a crap load more torque..

Now if we had a Honda, and that would be a better comparison...

Did I meantion anything about Japanese I4's making more torque? Uhh NO!

friggin stupid people these days...

so putting over 350wtq through a stock escort clutch doesn't compare to a mild mod mustang killing stock clutches? Im pretty sure ford has the same company(exedy) make the stock clutches for all its cars.

so putting over 350wtq through a stock escort clutch doesn't compare to a mild mod mustang killing stock clutches? Im pretty sure ford has the same company(exedy) make the stock clutches for all its cars.

So these two cars are putting over 350wtq down:
"my friend has 80k on his stock escort clutch(6yrs)

I have 53k on mine(6years)"

And lasting 6years for both, I don't think so Tim.

350wtq, got 1/4 mile times? Documented, and list engine specs:grinno: :p :)

well my stock clutch is a centerforce.


yeah hes on streetfire.net, dynoing 377whp and shattering 4th gear. Gude turbo kit. and there is a vid of him running 11.2

Engine specs?

His clutch lasted for 80k, at that power level?

so putting over 350wtq through a stock escort clutch doesn't compare to a mild mod mustang killing stock clutches? Im pretty sure ford has the same company(exedy) make the stock clutches for all its cars.

Several things...


You right, it does not compare because a stock Escort Clutch, from a Escort sold in the US is only rated to a MAXIMUM safe torque capacity of 200ft-lbs
The absolute maximum Operating Torque capacity of a stock Escort clutch sold here in the US is 250lbs of torque, and will blow apart at any higher torque capacity.
It's pretty **** obvious your hands on knowledge about mustangs...is very limited...
VALEO Clutch Co is the O.E.M. Manufactor for the majority of the Mustang Clutches and have been for a long while..since 1986. Matter of fact the same clutch was also used the Cougar and Capri from 1986 to 1989.
Hell you can call them and mail them and verify it yourself.
Valeo Clutch
37564 Amrhein Rd
Livonia MI, 48150
Phone: 734-591-6550
Fax: 734-591-7623
Sachs was the secondard supplier for the O.E.M. Manufacturer for the Mustangs.
Exedy did not do a OEM Manufactorer supply thing with the Mustangs from 1979-2004, and stating that Exedy is the OEM manufactor for the Mustang Clutches from 1979-2004 is complete BS.
Sachs, Valeo and Exedy did OEM clutches for all the I-4 Fords sold in the US with Valeo handling the majority of the Ford OEM product lines. Sachs, again the secondary supplier and Exedy handled the rest in the 4 banger market.

well my stock clutch is a centerforce.
Not if your driving ANY Ford sold in the US. Especially a ZX2
so putting over 350wtq through a stock escort clutch doesn't compare to a mild mod mustang killing stock clutches? Im pretty sure ford has the same company(exedy) make the stock clutches for all its cars.

There is NOT a SINGLE person with a Escort sold in the US that has a STOCK ESCORT CLUTCH that is pushing more than 250 ft-lbs of torque... --PROVE ME WRONG!


and if you wernt so ignorant you'd have figured out US i4'smake a lot more tq then Japanese i4's

A lot more Torque? Can you define a lot more Torque
Not when it comes to the most powerful Naturally Asperated Ford 4 cyclinder car sold in the US..
let's compare..

Ford Fusion
160hp and 156ft-lbs of torque..

The Focus with the 2.3L
151hp & 154 Ft-lbs of torque..

The comp from Japan.

Mitsubishi ECLIPSE 2.4L
162 hp & 162 ft-lbs torque

Honda Accord EX EX-L
166 hp & 160 ft-lbs torque

Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart = 2.4L
162 hp & 165 ft-lbs torque

Mitsubishi Galant 2.4L DE/ES
160 hp & 157 ft-lbs torque

Toyota Camery LE 2.4L =
158 hp & 161 ft-lbs torque

Acura TSX 2.4L NA
205 hp & 164 ft-lbs torque

Honda S2000
237hp & 162 ft-lbs torque

So please show me a lot more Torque because it looks pretty close to me..
Noticed, the Fords actually produce less Torque hmmm...


I guess I should look at Chevy and Dodge.. oh wait. Dodge mostly uses Mitsubishi 4 bangers... darn......

I'll check out the Chevy's later on..

i looked at older cars to since the escort hasnt been around for a while. the hondas back then did produce pathetic torque amounts even for a 4 cylinder. but the toyotas and mitsubishis actually produced as much or more torque than the zetec in the ZX2.

i looked at older cars to since the escort hasnt been around for a while. the hondas back then did produce pathetic torque amounts even for a 4 cylinder. but the toyotas and mitsubishis actually produced as much or more torque than the zetec in the ZX2.


The ZX2 is the Escort, the dropped the Escort portion on the name, but basically it;s the Escort ZX2. My little brother had one before he grew balls and picked up a mustang.

I guess I should look at Chevy and Dodge.. oh wait. Dodge mostly uses Mitsubishi 4 bangers... darn......

I'll check out the Chevy's later on..

Silver,
Nice post!

You sir, have a very good running knowledge of a lot of different Fords, very commendable:evillol:

Several things...

It's pretty **** obvious your hands on knowledge about mustangs...is very limited...


When did I say it wasnt?


Exedy did not do a OEM Manufactorer supply thing with the Mustangs from 1979-2004, and stating that Exedy is the OEM manufactor for the Mustang Clutches from 1979-2004 is complete BS.


When did I say Exedy DID make a Mustang stock clutch? I only saiid that was was "pretty sure" obviously hinting that i didnt know it as a fact.


Not if your driving ANY Ford sold in the US. Especially a ZX2


google ZX2 S/R



There is NOT a SINGLE person with a Escort sold in the US that has a STOCK ESCORT CLUTCH that is pushing more than 250 ft-lbs of torque... --PROVE ME WRONG!


already said to search on streetfire. and technicly anyone with a centerforce in a zx2 counts also as my car came FACTORY STOCK with a centerforce.


A lot more Torque? Can you define a lot more Torque


99-00 Civic Si, 111ftlbs
99-00 ZX2 S/R 140ftlbs

for i4's thats a lot



Not when it comes to the most powerful Naturally Asperated Ford 4 cyclinder car sold in the US..
let's compare..

Ford Fusion
160hp and 156ft-lbs of torque..

The Focus with the 2.3L
151hp & 154 Ft-lbs of torque..

The comp from Japan.

Mitsubishi ECLIPSE 2.4L
162 hp & 162 ft-lbs torque

Honda Accord EX EX-L
166 hp & 160 ft-lbs torque

Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart = 2.4L
162 hp & 165 ft-lbs torque

Mitsubishi Galant 2.4L DE/ES
160 hp & 157 ft-lbs torque

Toyota Camery LE 2.4L =
158 hp & 161 ft-lbs torque

Acura TSX 2.4L NA
205 hp & 164 ft-lbs torque

Honda S2000
237hp & 162 ft-lbs torque


up untill about 2003 my statement held true, after that US i's stopped doing ANY kind of good power rating compared to Japanese

163nd yes lets leave out the fact the other motors are not only bigger but some of them have to wind out a lot farther then the focus does. Oh and lets forget GM's 163tq and dodges 165ft which puts GM& dodge in the top 3.



I guess I should look at Chevy and Dodge.. oh wait. Dodge mostly uses Mitsubishi 4 bangers... darn......


not there new 2.4l it isnt.

99-00 Civic Si, 111ftlbs
99-00 ZX2 S/R 140ftlbs

for i4's thats a lot



You need a little more sampling than 2 engines, that really does not show anything.

You need a little more sampling than 2 engines, that really does not show anything.


well most other cars that are from Japan and making similar tq are either more race aimed and making the power way up in the powerband (s2000, integra type-R ect) or are bigger motors then the US counterpart(untill the last couple years)

the 99 Celica is bigger then a focus and only makes 145tq same with the honda F22.

Lets also not forget that US motors are typicly less tuned as well as Japanese motors. while a chip will give a Civic Si like 6tq and 8hp it will give a US car 15whp and 14wtq.

So its not that the japanese cars are making better tq....its that they are just more refined tuning then the US cars.

Example: givee a stock ZX2 a dyno tune..its will make 128wtq give a 02-05 Si a dyno tune..its gonna make MAYBE Mid 120's but its gonna make it @ 500 or more rpm higher.

The ZX2 is the Escort, the dropped the Escort portion on the name, but basically it;s the Escort ZX2. My little brother had one before he grew balls and picked up a mustang.

i know that. i said zx2 because the regular escort had the old SPI engine that only made 110 ft-lbs.

not there new 2.4l it isnt.

indeed. it is a 420A, and it is not a new engine whatsoever. basically it just got bigger from the 2.0l version. it is made by chrysler. but guess what, it is used in mitsubishi cars. so id be willing to bet its the same engine listed in the mitsu car on silverstangs list.

The ZX2 is the Escort, the dropped the Escort portion on the name, but basically it;s the Escort ZX2. My little brother had one before he grew balls and picked up a mustang.

Thats not saying much seeing as Good drivers in a ZX2's are getting 15.7 and good drivers in a same year v6 mustang are getting the same times.

10k Escort > 18k v6 mustang NO WAY would i ever buy an American V8...they are pathetic compared to may other companies v6's.

Hell my friend races LS1/LT1's on the streets in his stock GTi and beats them.

stock 2004 Mustang GT 14.0, his AUTOMATIC GTi 14.3 stock..I'm long past thinking the v8 mustang is a worth while purchase. In the money he saved getting the GTi he can run low 13's which is faster then the mid 13's most new GT's run...and don't even talk about autoX.

American V8's don't impress @ all. They are way to inefficent. in both performance and MPG.

Thats not saying much seeing as Good drivers in a ZX2's are getting 15.7 and good drivers in a same year v6 mustang are getting the same times.

10k Escort > 18k v6 mustang NO WAY would i ever buy an American V8...they are pathetic compared to may other companies v6's.

Hell my friend races LS1/LT1's on the streets in his stock GTi and beats them.

stock 2004 Mustang GT 14.0, his AUTOMATIC GTi 14.3 stock..I'm long past thinking the v8 mustang is a worth while purchase. In the money he saved getting the GTi he can run low 13's which is faster then the mid 13's most new GT's run...and don't even talk about autoX.

American V8's don't impress @ all. They are way to inefficent. in both performance and MPG.

this post really shows your vast automotive knowledge. guess what buddy, hp per liter means absolutely nothing. it is completely and totally useless. want an example, lets look at the corvette. 6.0 liters and 400hp, but makes 28mpg. well now lets look at a super efficient v8 such as a jaguar XKR 4.0l making 370hp. oh look at that, 22 mpg.

what matters is practicality, size, and weight. plain an simple fact is that these wasteful old big v8s are much more practical because of their powerband, the pushrod v8s are also small and lightweight.

the other fact here is that your friends stock GTI IS NOT beating any ls1 powered car. period. unless of course its running on 3 cylinders. if you really believe that, your a bigger tool than you can possibly imagine.

the zx2 was not $10k its more like $12k. now you want to talk about affordability. a brand new mustang gt is 25k... with that you get a good v8 with far more potential than your escort will ever have in every way. why do you think car and driver rated it as one of the 3 best bargains you can get for under $30k? so dont try to go bullshiting around saying the GTI is a way better deal because guess what, it costs 22k new and for that your getting a less powerful car with FWD and a more narrow powerband. GTI's arent some god machine, i know people who have them also.

Also, if I get into a accident, I want some meat between me and the other guy. V8 will ALWAYS win that battle:D

3500lbs Mustang, or a 2400lbs Civic, my money is on the heavy weight.

jaguar XKR 4.0l making 370hp. oh look at that, 22 mpg.


Umm Jaguars are Ford motors.....


the other fact here is that your friends stock GTI IS NOT beating any ls1 powered car. period. unless of course its running on 3 cylinders. if you really believe that, your a bigger tool than you can possibly imagine.


really go tell the 6.0L GTO, the 5.7L GTO and the LT1 he raced in York...power means nothing if you cant drive...and lets face it most races are on the streets.



the zx2 was not $10k its more like $12k.


Really since when is an ad saying $9,999 really mean 12k?


now you want to talk about affordability. a brand new mustang gt is 25k... with that you get a good v8 with far more potential than your escort will ever have in every way.

really is that why the escort out handles gets better MPG and can go 11's with out the need of spending the other 15k? potential yes...but who wants a 6second daily driver?


why do you think car and driver rated it as one of the 3 best bargains you can get for under $30k?


huh so i guess that means it beat out the mustang?


so dont try to go bullshiting around saying the GTI is a way better deal because guess what, it costs 22k new and for that your getting a less powerful car with FWD and a more narrow powerband. GTI's aren't some god machine, i know people who have them also.

and if you are geared to take advantage of you powerband what does that matter? and how is making peak Tq @ 2900 and not really dropping off HP till 6500 a narrow band? that broader then my escort, the new Mazdaspeed3, and the new Si. Hell the new GT is only going from 4500-5800range. lol

and the GT is about 25k as you said...chip, down pipe, exhaust, intake = low 13's(beating the 25k GT), better handling (again beating the GT), and better MPG (oh yeah....again beating the GT)and what did you spend? under 25k and you get an LSD with that. the GT inst worth its money vs the other cars out there..hell i think its was motortreds did a review and the GT handled the same as a damn cobalt SS lol

What an idiot, why are you here? You have only proven one thing with your posts, and that is that you are a ricer. You have already admitted that you don't know anything about mustangs but you continue to post in the mustang section.

Have you ever seen your clutch? Have you ever seen a clutch attached to a V8? If you think your tiny clutch will handle any kind of real torque, than come back when you have some and tell me how well it held up.

I started reading your last 4 posts or so and I couldn't even remember all the retarded things you said so that I could tear them apart in this post.

There are no stock GTIs that will even begin to threaten any car equiped with an LS1,2,6,7. "anything can happen on the streets" is what ricers say.

Stop talking about things you don't understand. The Escort ZX2 was not a great performer when it was being produced and it certainly isn't now. Quoting people who have built fast cars out of them is stupid, any body can make a shitty car fast with enough money.

Your pricing is complete shit. You can get a mustang GT for around 25-26 grand. A new GTI is starting around 24 grand and the SI civic is right in that ball park. Guess which of those three cars is the fastest........I will give you a hint its got more than 4 cylinders.
And on a side note my civic has 128 torque and it is not even close to being fast.

What an idiot, why are you here? You have only proven one thing with your posts, and that is that you are a ricer. You have already admitted that you don't know anything about mustangs but you continue to post in the mustang section.

Have you ever seen your clutch? Have you ever seen a clutch attached to a V8? If you think your tiny clutch will handle any kind of real torque, than come back when you have some and tell me how well it held up.

I started reading your last 4 posts or so and I couldn't even remember all the retarded things you said so that I could tear them apart in this post.

There are no stock GTIs that will even begin to threaten any car equiped with an LS1,2,6,7. "anything can happen on the streets" is what ricers say.

Stop talking about things you don't understand. The Escort ZX2 was not a great performer when it was being produced and it certainly isn't now. Quoting people who have built fast cars out of them is stupid, any body can make a shitty car fast with enough money.

Your pricing is complete shit. You can get a mustang GT for around 25-26 grand. A new GTI is starting around 24 grand and the SI civic is right in that ball park. Guess which of those three cars is the fastest........I will give you a hint its got more than 4 cylinders.
And on a side note my civic has 128 torque and it is not even close to being fast.


ok a Si is 21k, and a Gti is 23k...just look @ the damn dealershifps.

and yes the GT is fastest in STRAIGHT line, but guess what you sacrafice....build quality and handeling.

the GT inst worth its money vs the other cars out there..hell i think its was motortreds did a review and the GT handled the same as a damn cobalt SS lol

Guess what douchebag, I have seen tests between a Scion TC, Cobalt SS, GTI, and CIVIC SI........ and the cobalt won.

huh so i guess that means it beat out the mustang?

wow, your a moron, i was talking about the mustang.

Umm Jaguars are Ford motors.....

wow, your a moron again, jaguars motors are jaguar motors. they make their own v8's smart guy. the only ford with a jag motor is the thunderbird. the lincoln ls also has a jag motor. jaguars does use the duratec v6 sometimes.

really go tell the 6.0L GTO, the 5.7L GTO and the LT1 he raced in York...power means nothing if you cant drive...and lets face it most races are on the streets.

so basically you are confirming what i said, your a huge tool.

Really since when is an ad saying $9,999 really mean 12k?

12k is what it was priced from the factory, ads dont mean shit, use your head. sales happen on everything. i bet i could find a mustang gt for 22k too.

really is that why the escort out handles gets better MPG and can go 11's with out the need of spending the other 15k? potential yes...but who wants a 6second daily driver?

another brilliant comment. you know i used to say stuff like you do when i first joined too so im trying not to be to hard on you, but you arent a noob here anymore. yes the escort will handle better stock, but the mustang has better potential there due mostly to its layout, the other part being that its not an econobox. the other thing is id like to see how easily you can get an escort into the 11s, you probably have no idea how hard it is. you sit there and say, oh just do this and this and this. well guess what, its not that easy and i guarentee and bet $100000 that you will run into hidden problems doing it that will set you back. and it wont be reliable. and ya know what, if it is running 11s, it is not going to get good gas milage, period. not any better than a mustang running 11s.

now if you really think the mustangs powerband is only 1300 rpm then your truly and idiot. have you ever even driven one, and i dont mean a 95 v6 or whatever it is you want. and like blackgt2000 said, a cobalt actually handles pretty well, i read that article too. it outhandles everything else youve talked about and it outhandles escorts too.


and yes the GT is fastest in STRAIGHT line, but guess what you sacrafice....build quality and handeling.

since when did mustangs have crappy build quality, we arent talking about the 80's here. mustangs actually have pretty good build quality. certainly way better than a $12k escort. guess what, escort zx2's sell for a measly $300-400 in good condition at dealer auctions, because of that. and i know that for a fact, cause i go to dealer auctions. where mustangs go pretty high most of the time.

lastly, why the hell are you talking about this crap anyway, its retarded. if we wanted a fwd econobox we would get one. the one thing you can never change about it no matter how much you talk is that its fwd. i dont dislike escorts actually, i almost bought a zx2 not to long ago for my brother to have while he turboed his car. but your completely off the wall.

Put an Escort in the 7s, not 11s. Then you can tell me its better than a V8. There a shit load of Ford Mustangs in that realm.

How many I4s on the 6s? Once again, there is a but load of V8s.

By the way, an egines inefficecy is based on the engines head, nothing else. Old 2v V8s, run around 65-70, but there is no advantage over a 4v headed V8.

Give me specs of an I4, at 400lbs of torque.

And NO NAME CALLING! Its opinions, not everyone will agree. That is the cool thing about cars.

ok a Si is 21k, and a Gti is 23k...just look @ the damn dealershifps.

and yes the GT is fastest in STRAIGHT line, but guess what you sacrafice....build quality and handeling.


Actually if you can find an SI or a GTI at either of those prices and walk off the lot paying that, than I will give you a cookie. I actually bought a new car about a month and a half ago and I priced both the SI and the GTI. Neither of them came close to affordable. Its even quite easy to get the civic EX to 21000 with a couple options, and your performance (other than fuel economy) will be nothing to brag about I can assure you.