WIP Tamiya Williams FW-13B

Well you know the modeling Bug has bitten you when you start another model before you finish the first one you started :screwy:. Well my son bought this model a few weeks back I started to go through it the other day. Dry fitting the parts reading the instructions and thought I can do this and it give me something to do wale paint dries on the Benetton I working on. I started to prep the monocoque, the under tray, and the engine. I plan to do some detailing not a lot just some wiring, C/F, and maybe scratch build some fitting I am not going to throw a lot of money into it because this will be my first attempt on detailing I really want to better my paint skills.


Here is the monocoque and under tray I sanded the seems and filled some with Tamiya Putty.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Tamiya%20Williams%20FW13B/bodyparts.jpghttp://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/bodyparts.jpg

The Air box intake is two pieces I glue then and also filled w Tamiya Putty is great stuff .
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Tamiya%20Williams%20FW13B/air-intake.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/air-intake.jpg

I start painting the engine here I want to try some dry brushing. The instructions say to mix X-18 Semi Gloss Black and X-10 Gun Metal @ a rate of 3:1 I did that and though it was to dark so I repaint it Gun Metal dry brushed X-18 Semi Gloss Black when dry I dry brushed XF-16 Flat Aluminum.
Then to accent some around the gearbox I dried brushed XF-6 copper.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Re-engine.jpg




Any comments would be welcome

Regards
Dave

You're off to a great start. :)

I'm at about the same point on my FW-13B, the only difference is I started mine about 3 years ago and have been working on a ton of other things ever since :lol:

I'll be watching your build up Dave.This is one kit I would love to build but I am always put off by the complicated colour scheme.::banghead:

Nice start on a great subject.

Any comments would be welcome

The nose cone didn't fit properly (in my kit) so check the fitment of yours (with the suspension in) before you start painting it.

The interior side panels look good when done in the yellow kevlar CF decals from SMS.

If you want a little bit of scratch building, replace the rear light with a lens made from clear sprue. Paint the back silver, the front clear red and you end up with a glass like lens.

It looks like you are brushing on the paint a little too thick. I used to do this because I didnt prime the parts. If you prime the parts and thin down the paint a little, you will find you get a much thinner coating preserving more of the detail in the moulds... (some colours will still need 3 coats tho).

All the best,
BillyPee

This is one kit I would love to build but I am always put off by the complicated colour scheme.::banghead:

I know what you mean Steve I haven't decided yet to use the decals or to tackle the paint. The blue on the decals is the wrong color. I am hopping to get an air-brush for Christmas. If it wasn't for that red pin stripe.



I know you can see some of the bursh strokes painting the semi gloss black is a pain. I will try thinning it some thanks for the tip Billy :grinyes:




Regards,

Dave

If it wasn't for that red pin stripe.

You could cut out the red pin stripe and just use that. When I used the blue decals on my FW13B they would not conform to the bodywork. I put it down to not using MicroSol/Set, so when I did the FW11 I used MicroSol/Set but the decals were too long in the tooth and the MicroSol just destroyed them.

Take a look at the FW13B on this site: http://www.hhugo.com/home-eng.html

I have a word document with the progress of the FW13B which I could e-mail you if you like? Just PM me if you want it.

Cheers,
BillyPee

I know what you mean Steve I haven't decided yet to use the decals or to tackle the paint. The blue on the decals is the wrong color. I am hopping to get an air-brush for Christmas. If it wasn't for that red pin stripe.


I think you have to use paint for the blue sections to do it justice.The decals as you stated are the wrong colour and I just can't see them conforming to the complex cures of the bodywork.Not with my decal skills anyway!!!!:eek:
Best of luck with it whatever method you go with for the blue sections.You may even tempt me to buy the kit.:wink:

Yeah nice start!... More pictures please!!

Take a look at the FW13B on this site: http://www.hhugo.com/home-eng.html

Hi Billypee
I found that link last week when I was searching the forum. I am defiantly going to us it as a reference have search for pictures of the car and there hard to fine another member hear was kind enough to sent me what he had. I also picked up a F1 book on e-bay that I am hoping will be of some help should be here by the end of the week.
You could cut out the red pin stripe and just use that. That is defiantly an option i will have to wait and see when I get to that point.
I think you have to use paint for the blue sections to do it justice
Yes Justice that's all I can hope for.



Regards,
Dave

The book "ClearView-F1 Williams FW14B" by Andy Matthews and Sean Kelly would be useful for the interior. Although it depicts the car from 1992, it is still very useful for getting the colours right, the cf, and some of the wiring/plumbing. Unless someone has taken photos of the 13B with the cowling off, you are unlikely to find better interior reference pictures.

The book is fabulous in its own right anyway.

BillyPee

Ok I need your opinion here are to Tamiya paint colors I am thinking of using for the blue on the Williams FW 13B. Which one look close to the color in the picture.
P.S. Steve I borrowed the picture from you hope you don't mine.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/WilliamsFW13B.jpg

TS-53 Deep Metallic Blue
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/TS-53.jpg
TS-15 Blue

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/TS-15.jpg
Thanks
Dave

i would lean towards the ts-53. what does the kit call for?

would lean towards the ts-53. what does the kit call for?


The kit doesn’t suggest paint there is decals for the blue part and the decals are the wrong color.

Dave

I would choose the TS-51 or X-4 with a drop of black. Becaues TS-53 seems to be a metallic blue, by the name, and on the pictures, it's a like royal blue. Maybe the X-3 gonna do it, the real color is ligther than what you see in the chart. Hope it help

It certainly should not be a metallic blue.

P.S. Steve I borrowed the picture from you hope you don't mine.

No problem using the picture Dave.I have half a dozen more of the same car,just general pics and one of the wheel.If you want them let me know?
I'd steer clear of the TS-53 it's too dark and the real colour on the car is not metallic.I think the TS-15 would be a better starting point,but would still need some tweaking to attain the right shade.The TS-15 straight from the can is not vibrant enough.

Thanks guy's for your input so I will stay away from the TS-53.
I think the TS-15 would be a better starting point,but would still need some tweaking to attain the right shade.The TS-15 straight from the can is not vibrant enough.
In order for me to do that I would need a air brush so I could mix the paint right. Well Christmas is right around the corner :grinyes: I would love to get those
pictures from you any reference would be a help.

Regards,
Dave

If you don't have an airbrush right now, you can go to automobile paint retailer and made your own can with your own mix ... I don't know where you live and if you can have acces to a shop like that but probably ... for me it's 10$ a can pretty decent, you can even look if they can have the code of the FW-13b and made you the exact same color. They made me a couple of unique can color for my car 1:1 and they even keep the proportion in their database. :) Hope you can get something like that

How about TS44-Brilliant Blue. It's what recommended in the instruction for 1/12 FW14B.

nakadds wrote:
How about TS44-Brilliant Blue. It's what recommended in the instruction for 1/12 FW14B.
:2cents: I agree. TS44-Brilliant Blue is what I have used for the blue on the bottom of the Jordan I am building at the moment. I reckon that it would be quite a good match actually. It is a little lighter than most people would think it correct, but it matches the real colour very well. Although I have used X-4 on my FW-11, it is much too dark.
In terms of colour, remember that it is Labatt's Blue and Camel Yellow. If you have a bottle of Labatts to hand then you should be able to get an exact match if you use automotive paint. Go to http://www.labatt.com/ and the homepage shows you bottles of Labatt's Blue! Like I said, it looks very much like TS-44, so if you want to stick with Tamiya paint, I would plump for that.

BillyPee

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x9.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x8.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x7.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x6.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x4.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x3.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x2.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x1.jpg

You guy's are great thanks for all your help with this :)

If you don't have an airbrush right now, you can go to automobile paint retailer and made your own can with your own mix ... I don't know where you live and if you can have acces to a shop like that but probably ... for me it's 10$ a can pretty decent, you can even look if they can have the code of the FW-13b and made you the exact same color. They made me a couple of unique can color for my car 1:1 and they even keep the proportion in their database. :) Hope you can get something like that

the Rider I am going to check into that there is a real good automobile supply shop right around the corner from where I work.

How about TS44-Brilliant Blue.

I have to go to the hobby shop later this week I will look at TS-44 along with TS-15.

Steve thanks for the awesome pictures what a place that must be have to get there some day :)

Regards,
Dave

Hi Dave,

Been thinking about this more today (I must get out more I know :lol: ) and I am more convinced than ever that the lighter blue TS-44 is just about spot on. I don't want to turn this into a "Mclaren flourescent red perfect match quest" but equally I want to provide a good reference for fellow modellers who may one day pass this thread looking for information on the correct blue.

If you look at Steve's excellent photos, on x7.jpg you can clearly see that the blue of the FW13B is a good deal lighter than the blue of the FW12 it is next to. I contend that this is because Labatt's was then on-board as sponsor, as in ClearView-F1 Williams FW14B by Andy Matthews and Sean Kelly the blue of the FW14B is decribed as Labatt's Blue.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/billypee/FW13B/Picture1.jpg

From the Labatt's website, you can see the blue is really much lighter than even Steve's photos suggest. Perhaps Steve could tell us whether the photographs have darkened the colour somewhat (as he was lucky enough to visit the museum--note to self, must get there someday soon).

The following photo from F1-Facts.com also shows a light blue (although other photos on that website have a darker blue).

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/billypee/FW13B/958.jpg

I guess what I am trying to say is that the original decals are a very good match to the blue and that Tamiya TS-44 Brilliant Blue is the closest match to that. However, if you ever plan to make the FW11, then a darker blue (closer to X-4) is required.

Kind regards,
BillyPee

Billypee thanks for your effort you put to this now get yourself a Labatt's
:cheers:

Regards,
Dave

From the Labatt's website, you can see the blue is really much lighter than even Steve's photos suggest. Perhaps Steve could tell us whether the photographs have darkened the colour somewhat (as he was lucky enough to visit the museum

If it helps you guy's any,I'd say that the camera ever so slightly darkened the blue in the photographs.My personnal opinion is that the FW13B blue is very close to if not the same as the FW14B blue.I have an FW14B that I think was painted in TS-44.I'll post a picture tommorow taken in the daylight for you chaps to compare it to the FW13B and see what you think.

Hi Dave.Here's the pics of the FW14B.I took them in the daylight but it was a bit cloudy so the blue looks a bit darker.It looks very close to the FW13B I saw at the museum.This is the Tamiya 1/20th Collectors Club model.I'm sure they were painted TS-44 Brilliant Blue.Hope this helps.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/IMGP3489.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/IMGP3488.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/IMGP3486.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/IMGP3485.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/IMGP3484.jpg

Thanks Steve
The photos do help thanks to everyone eles you have been so helpful.


Regards
Dave:)

This is a great car and very rarely do we see it built. Good luck with it and i will enjoy following your progress.

Just thought I'd add to your choice of clours.Dupont list two on their site
under Renault,Racing Blue F1 and Racing Yellow F1,both have the manufacture
colour code -Williams and the standard date is 05/04/1993.
This may be correct,but who knows what there source was.It would be
interesting to know who supplied their paint at the time.
Good Luck stoiky

Just thought I'd add to your choice of clours.Dupont list two on their site
under Renault,Racing Blue F1 and Racing Yellow F1,both have the manufacture
colour code -Williams and the standard date is 05/04/1993.
This may be correct,but who knows what there source was.It would be
interesting to know who supplied their paint at the time.
Good Luck stoiky
Stoiky you got a link for that? Thanks. Dave, great progress so far.

Mike.

Dave
Here's the the link to the colours,just click and it brings up the code,click on the type of paint eg 600 and it brings up the formula.I also noticed
Camel Yellow in the list.
Cheers stoiky

Sorry Here's the link http://color.dupontrefinish.info/scripts/colorweb.dll/scrclname?p=1&s=1&l=1&mfname=RENAULT&mfcode=&clname=&mfmodel=&stcode=&listbtn=show+list

Thanks for the link stoiky I will look Into it

And Mike Thanks for the nice coments

Regards
Dave

I can't seem to get the Dupont link to work.Has anyone had it working?

Steve this is what I did I typed racing Blue F1 in the search box
It took me awhile to figure it out
This is what I got
http://color.dupontrefinish.info/scripts/colorweb.dll/stockcode?p=1&s=4&mfname=RENAULT&mfcode=WILLIAMS&clname=RACING+BLUE+F1&stcode=J0905


Regards
Dave

I just keep getting a 'Can't find the server' message.

You tried the link I put up because it works for me. Mybe there is a problem with the server.

Dave

Here is a small update I finished filling and sanding the monocoque. I used Tamiya Putty to get rid of that nasty seem that was on the front of the monocoque that stuff works well. I wet sanded it and sprayed it with gray automotive primer about 3 coats.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/mono-1.jpghttp://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Tamiya%20Williams%20FW13B/mono-1.jpg

Here is the under tray,monocoque, and the rear cowl installed the air box intake and again used Tamiya putty to cover up the seems wet sanded and primed gray. The monocoque has been primed white getting ready to do the rear cowl and the under tray is ready to be painted semi gloss black. I really like the gray automotive primer the third coat went on nice and smoothed just hit it with some 2000 grit to make sure there where know bumps.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/parts.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Tamiya%20Williams%20FW13B/parts.jpg
It's going to be a little while till I get the monocoque, and rear cowl painted haven't picked out the blue yet and I plan to buy an airbrush. I did fine this real good automotive paint supply store down the street from where I work I am going to bring the the color mix that I got from the link that stoiky put up their a Dupont dealer they said that they can mix anything DuPont make and thet I could get it in small amounts also will see what that gets me. Hope to have some more updates soon coments welcome.

Regards,
Dave

Nice work on the monocoque Dave.I'll be interested to see how your special blue looks when applied.

Well here is an update this is my first attempt at carbon fiber decals. I did the seat assembly,dash board, the front brake ducks, and the part of the under tray. I found out working with C/F is very time consuming I also scratch build the heat shield from some aluminum tape I had on hand. Enjoy coments welcome
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Tamiya%20Williams%20FW13B/c-f-parts.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/Tamiya%20Williams%20FW13B/undertray.jpg

Regards,
Dave
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/c-f-parts.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/undertray.jpg

For your first attempt at CF decals i think you have done well. Any tips for someone yet to try???

Outstanding work with the Carbon, you've obviously got a hand for it :)

The carbon decalling looks great Dave! I'm glad you're back working on the model.Look forward to more progress.

Nice work on the CF decals. Yes, they do take a lot of time but I think they are worth it. I like how you have used different CF types for the cockpit and the undertray. Keep it up!

Regards,
Billy P

Dave,
Send me your address and I'll post a bottle of the Labatts blue in automotive paint.

Thanks Guy's for the nice coments.

robrex I sent you a PM

Sorry for the long time between updates rain has been interrupting the painting process also I have been learning to us an airbrush. So here what I have been working on the monocoque, the rear cowl, and all other parts the need to be painted white are now done.
I painted 3 coats of Finisher’s Foundation white wet sanded in between coats with 2000 grit sand paper this is the first time I use Finisher’s paint once I got the hang of the airbrush it went on really well. Then I put down 3 coats of Tamiya TS-26 Pure White right out of the can. 2 light mist coats then 2 heaver coats. It’s hard to tell in the picture but it came out real nice I have been using 2000 grit to polish it out I picked up some micro mesh polishing stix I will give those a try also. So I ready to start macking off for the yellow

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/body-1.jpg
Now I have been playing around with two colors of blue left side is Pantone 287 Labatts Blue which many thanks gose out to Robrex for sending it to me :wink: the right one is Renault,Racing Blue F1 which stoiky found on Dupnot's website that was made for Williams also thanks to him as well. The Labatts Blue seems to match the referance pictures I have better then the Renault blue it looks to dark.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/hood.jpg

Now the fun part well it's all been fun so far while waiting for a good day to paint when it's not raining and paint to dry I have been looking at all my reference photo's over and over not so much for derailing but for masking of the 3 colors. The other day I noticed on Sutton Images website http://www.sutton-images.com/search their archive type FW13B you will see 2 pictures of Damon Hill testing the FW13B there the 6 and 7th picture on the first page. Notice the paint scheme
The long white area where the drivers name goes is not there and the ICI sponsorship is removed and there is Camel decals on the front of the monocoque, and know number on the car. Well that got me thing I never seen anyone build it this way If you also notices the front wing end plates are blue and have the Bull sponsorship which is on the FW14B
So I went look if I could fine those decals for the wing and found these from Museum Collection for the FW14B Mac Modeling had them great to do businesses the decals were here in a few days dig the red pinstripe also that's going to make my life easy :grinyes:
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/decals.jpg

Enjoy more to come soon

The Labatt's blue looks the correct colour... on my monitor at least :) The right had deeper blue looks perfect for the FW11 though.

I love the idea that you are going to model Damon's test car. The FW13B competed in the '90 season, so the photos on Sutton's Images are for the beginning of the following season... hence the livery looking more like the FW14 and FW14B.

Keep up the good work... everything looks great.

Kind regards,
Bill

Ok need some help here if you looked at the photo's on of the FW13B test car http://www.sutton-images.com (http://www.sutton-images.com/)
remember you have to search FW13B on there site. You will notice that the front wing end plate is different so I used some styrene to make this small piece that I will glue to the original end plate. What do you guy’s think I never scratch built anything before dose it look ok.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/wing-ext.jpg

Hi Dave,

You are right to observe that the side-fence is a different shape. It is moving towards the FW14s more bulbous leading edge. The photo reference is a little poor, so I searched on FW14 and found this better image.

http://www.suttonimages.com/fotoweb/FWbin/preview.dll/tmk0127no43.jpg?D=B67EDF2071FDF02B0FECA359FE698AAB EF21EBFDC3EC4877A6C3234EC92188493A34B77557C4FFCEF6 05C5C3331591B9E77A7168F139D302498CAFF3DFA8DC8BAA29 1D13A6F1A00EC443B85D2DB9476C1F4D1A5FE714FDF7697762 563E6A45D21C089F9474024D88519AB576A8D07E2C74C36EA5 867F06BC03BC03F300F4B1AD3B3FC6CB44711CD167080DDA7C 94474806230741DD739784A2BC97F3DF963B3498947DB469A8 46D4C789E732DCAFB20D

You are on the right track with your scratch building, and it is a great first attempt. I think it just needs a little refinement on the leading edge so that the bulge meets the original piece in one fluid stroke.

Kind regards,
Bill

Thanks Bill
I can see what you mean from the photo I will keep working on it.
The car in the photo is cool without the yellow on the rear cowl.
Ok so then what do you think about this is the yellow on Damon's test car Camel Yellow it looks darker then the original car.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/tmk0109oc07.jpg

Second attempt at the scratch building the wing add on still needs some work What do you guy's think?
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/DaveSans/wing.jpg

The wing part you have made looks very good Dave,you are definitely on the right track.I think if you fair it in with a little filler it should be fine.As for the yellow I think Tamiya Ts-34 Camel yellow looks a good match.I noticed also that on the Mac's models site he does the Finishers Camel Yellow (it's called deep yellow) and those Finishers paints do spray so well it would be a shame not to use them.

Thanks Steve
I will look into the Finishers paint I need to order something eles from Mac's anyway also I am ready to start painting the yellow his shipping was so fast it could be here by the end of the week. :)

Hi Dave,

Tamiya's paint is spot-on for the job of painting the yellow. I'm sure the Finishers paint is at least as good too. Many photos change the true colour. If you look at the image again, you will notice just how dark (and un-lifelike) the blue is on Damon's car, giving you a clue that the yellow is wrongly represented too.

The side-fence needs to be lower in the centre top, where it meets the original part. It also needs to taper in at the bottom leading edge to meet the original part. There are some great detail photos in Andy Mathew's book and the colour and exposure of the photographs is spot-on.

Kind regards,
Bill

Hi Dave,

Tamiya's paint is spot-on for the job of painting the yellow.

Bill do you mean the original yellow or the camel yellow?

I used a file on the side-fence so that it can match the bottom of the original it's not glued in place yet.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/x9.jpg


two of the most beautiful cars liveries of every time...

but the best is (IMHO) the chromed McLaren Mp4/21...

obviously the Kimi Raikkonen's car...:grinyes:

Bill do you mean the original yellow or the camel yellow?


Good point, I had missed that. The yellow prior to Camel sponsorship is TS-16 Yellow. For me, that paint is the correct colour and there is no need to look any further. However, now that it is the Camel sponsored car things have changed. Steve Noble recommends TS-36 Camel Yellow (among others). I haven't used that paint so can't comment. I think the name gives it away though... it should be perfect. Even if it is ever so slightly out, one of the benefits of using Tamiya paint is that you will be familiar with how it behaves with primer and clear.

HTH,
Bill

Bill I have thought about the yellow after your comment about the blue being dark in the picture the same would be for the yellow as well and to me the yellow I used for my Benetton TS-47 chrome yellow looks to be a better match to camel yellow which has a orange tint to it



P.S how do you set up those links in your Signature can figure it out PM on it

Hi Dave,

I can only speak for the TS-16 Yellow which is a lemon coloured yellow and has no hint of orange to it. I haven't used the Camel Yellow or the Chrome Yellow. To me, the yellow of the B192 also has a definite orange to it and, lets not forget, it is Camel sponsored. At least you have your B192 as an example, so you can see which you prefer. Having never seen the car, it is difficult to say.

Regards,
Bill

P.S. When you add a URL for the first time, the URL appears twice:

http://www.dave.com

The first occurance is the URL itself, and the second occurance is what is displayed to the screen. So if you changed the above to (URL="http://www.dave.com";)Dave Sans(/URL) you would see this:

Dave Sans (http://www.dave.com)

Hope that helps. You will need to use square brackets not curly brackets... but if I do that, you won't see what you need to type :)