ah hell... what do I do?

I've seen alot of impressive 200+ HP setups.

Everything from D serious builds, up to B series and H series, and back.

I'm still not 100% positive what I want... and I'm not willing to spend money on something I'm not sure about.

What I KNOW FOR SURE that I want is this:


Turboed, intercooled.
Small spray, say 100 shot.
I want to make 200 or so WHP WITHOUT THE TURBO OR NITROUS.
I want a reliable streetable engine that is going to last me at the very least, 60-80k miles, before needing any kind of real service, and preferably longer, provided it's not beaten on the street.
I DON'T want to spend a year's salary building it.
I'd prefer to build it with the strongest available OEM HONDA PARTS, replacing them with aftermarket parts when necessary.
I want to be able to take it to the track on the weekends, and kill rice and muscle alike... and hang with modified muscle.
I want to see smoke when I want it... and not from under the hood or the pipe.
I want to rev to 8500 max, as anything over that starts to just sound squirrelish... and the sound of my car is an important issue to me, not to mention that I've never seen a street car that actually NEEDED to rev past that, or even TO THAT in most cases.
I want to be able to do the lot of the work myself... including some light machine/reworking work, such as flat balancing the rotating assembly. I can't do a rotating balance, but if I remember right, Honda cranks are balanced to 9k anyway, and they are all (supposedly, haven't verified this yet) forged.
I want what every honda enthusiast wants... a streetable, reliable, 9 second car,that gets 30+ mpg, on relatively inexpensive street tires.
I want you to know that I was joking just there.
Except for the high gas mileage part.. I'd like to see more than 25 mpg, if I could.
ROFL.:rofl:
I want posts to this thread from people that KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT... and have actually built/worked on their cars, not just read about doing it, or had a beer or two with someone that was book smart.
I want a reply.
I want my driver's license back.:uhoh: (Street racing is illegal... and when you get caught, and you WILL, even @ anything from $500 to $2000 a race, it's not worth the crap you will have on your record for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.)I have until October 2007, on the 23rd @ 0000 hours to have a running, street legal, insurable car, and preferably a fast, reliable one. Help me. Please.

At that time I will be 1 year, 8 months, 21 days with no license, having to drive backroads or pay someone else to drive me EVERYWHERE I want/need to go.. When my child is born, I still won't have a license... and this is turning into a "don't follow my stupid ass post" so yeah, input please?

id say use the search function... check out pgmfi.org and hondaswap forums and such, use the search there. and good luck

I'd also like to add the fact that I am more than willing to build a completely hybrid engine...

Any piston/rod combination
I'm leaning toward going with a B Series block/head combo
any crank that I can mill the block to make it fit
any cam combination
other parts, such as valvetrain, also from anything that will make better performance,

Machine work is not a problem, I have a friend in the business :)

If your wanting 200whp without turbo or NOS, you will have to go with a B because its not gonna happen with a streetable D, even non-streetable im not sure about. I know on a z6 with p29 pistons, stage 3 cam, good intake and exhaust manifolds, and some head work, running on 91-93 your only gonna get around 150-160(not gonna get exact) out of it at the wheels. Thats running around a 12.5:1 C/R. I don't know if you can find some other pistons that can get that high of a C/R and make more power, but even if you did ofcourse with the high C/R turbo is out of the question, and I don't know jack squat about N2O.

I've seen alot of impressive 200+ HP setups.

Everything from D serious builds, up to B series and H series, and back.

I'm still not 100% positive what I want... and I'm not willing to spend money on something I'm not sure about.

What I KNOW FOR SURE that I want is this:


Turboed, intercooled.
Small spray, say 100 shot.
I want to make 200 or so WHP WITHOUT THE TURBO OR NITROUS.
I want a reliable streetable engine that is going to last me at the very least, 60-80k miles, before needing any kind of real service, and preferably longer, provided it's not beaten on the street.
I DON'T want to spend a year's salary building it.
I'd prefer to build it with the strongest available OEM HONDA PARTS, replacing them with aftermarket parts when necessary.
I want to be able to take it to the track on the weekends, and kill rice and muscle alike... and hang with modified muscle.
I want to see smoke when I want it... and not from under the hood or the pipe.
I want to rev to 8500 max, as anything over that starts to just sound squirrelish... and the sound of my car is an important issue to me, not to mention that I've never seen a street car that actually NEEDED to rev past that, or even TO THAT in most cases.
I want to be able to do the lot of the work myself... including some light machine/reworking work, such as flat balancing the rotating assembly. I can't do a rotating balance, but if I remember right, Honda cranks are balanced to 9k anyway, and they are all (supposedly, haven't verified this yet) forged.
I want what every honda enthusiast wants... a streetable, reliable, 9 second car,that gets 30+ mpg, on relatively inexpensive street tires.
I want you to know that I was joking just there.
Except for the high gas mileage part.. I'd like to see more than 25 mpg, if I could.
ROFL.:rofl:
I want posts to this thread from people that KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT... and have actually built/worked on their cars, not just read about doing it, or had a beer or two with someone that was book smart.
I want a reply.
I want my driver's license back.:uhoh: (Street racing is illegal... and when you get caught, and you WILL, even @ anything from $500 to $2000 a race, it's not worth the crap you will have on your record for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.)I have until October 2007, on the 23rd @ 0000 hours to have a running, street legal, insurable car, and preferably a fast, reliable one. Help me. Please.

At that time I will be 1 year, 8 months, 21 days with no license, having to drive backroads or pay someone else to drive me EVERYWHERE I want/need to go.. When my child is born, I still won't have a license... and this is turning into a "don't follow my stupid ass post" so yeah, input please?

If you want 200whp without turbo or nitrous...your only option is an H22 or K20. You could easily build a B to make 200 whp, but it will take at least 11:1 compression, which isn't going to like boost too much. Also, peaky all motor cams that will give you 200whp in a B aren't going to like boost too much either.

I actually enjoy driving unsprung clutches on the street, and I don't know what everyone is talking about having issues with street wheelspin with an unsprung clutch.. IMO, you can't drive right... or actually, you're trying to drive "right".

Will the B16A cable trans hold up to that much power? I'm not worried about axles, I can rebuild them all day... lol, I just don't wanna tear down the tranny and start digging out the exploded remains of second gear like my friend did in his EX/22psi setup. (Yea, he's a re-re... he wanted to blow up his engine... which consequentially, didn't happen... he pulled second, tires caught on the asphalt, popped the gear into a million pieces, and left him on the highway @ 3 am, at which time he called me to come get him in my Escort GT..)

But anyway, back to the original point, I'm learning stuff here, and it's good.

So yeah, keep the knowledge rolling here, I'm like a freakin book waiting to be written:P. Thanks for the input guys.

I retract my previous statement.. I'm going to build a turbo B series, 1 bar boost max, 6-8 street, 9.6:1 base compression (which will yield around 17:1 Theoretcal compression with 1bar, and 13:1 on the street, so I assume I'll be running 91 ocatane all the time lol but I'm going to take the time to find a GSR head with the extra quench area, then have the castings milled to have that compression with dished pistons.. so that all the air and fuel is forced into a ball centrally located in the combustion chamber.

I understand that this will probably require blueprinting, and I am still in belief that THIS of all things, is what I want.. I've already consulted a technician, and I'm also getting the entire longblock and all the parts cryo'd, before it's ever assembled. (Thermal Cycling is an old race trick to gain more reliability and strength from your parts.)

So basically, CR-Vtec type setup, GSR head (or any other welded), ITB's and a common plenum, Dished pistons, forged (eagle?) rods, 12k balance (entire rotating assembly, including flywheel and pulley), knife edge, decked block, decked head, spin balanced cams (sounds stupid, but I always do it, since it's free), ARP studs all over, and the rest is basic knowledge.

This is what I am willing to pour myself into. :) (I've gone insane.. finally, it's happened.)

without turbo or nitrous you would probly want to rev real high. seeing as how they have built all motor b series making power till idk how high but my friend has a built b16 that can go 9500 making power all the way.

if you know what you want already why are you asking questions that noobs ask, why don't you use the search option. you know these kinds of questions are all over the place on here.

Maybe you're slow, so I"ll let that flame go... but you should pay attention to what you're reading... I JUST NOW FIGURED OUT WHAT I WANTED TO BUILD... ASS.

hey don't be getting all angry. you know what criteria you want. in the first post it's really clear.

if you need some parts i got a b18 block some cryo treated eagle rods, and some other b18/vtec parts including a head.

Hey, sry for that before.. I have long nights at work... then I have long days at home.. and I don't sleep much lol

If you wanna PM me with prices and a list of parts, that would be cool, I'm going with a B20B/Z block tho, although that B18 Block might come in handy, b/c one of my friends is looking for one for his Kart.

I retract my previous statement.. I'm going to build a turbo B series, 1 bar boost max, 6-8 street, 9.6:1 base compression (which will yield around 17:1 Theoretcal compression with 1bar, and 13:1 on the street, so I assume I'll be running 91 ocatane all the time lol but I'm going to take the time to find a GSR head with the extra quench area, then have the castings milled to have that compression with dished pistons.. so that all the air and fuel is forced into a ball centrally located in the combustion chamber.

I understand that this will probably require blueprinting, and I am still in belief that THIS of all things, is what I want.. I've already consulted a technician, and I'm also getting the entire longblock and all the parts cryo'd, before it's ever assembled. (Thermal Cycling is an old race trick to gain more reliability and strength from your parts.)
So basically, CR-Vtec type setup, GSR head (or any other welded), ITB's and a common plenum, Dished pistons, forged (eagle?) rods, 12k balance (entire rotating assembly, including flywheel and pulley), knife edge, decked block, decked head, spin balanced cams (sounds stupid, but I always do it, since it's free), ARP studs all over, and the rest is basic knowledge.

This is what I am willing to pour myself into. :) (I've gone insane.. finally, it's happened.)


Personally for boost, i'd go with a GSR head on a sleeved 84mm LS block. about 9.5:1 compression, ITR style intake manifold, and 70+ mm tapered throttle body. Simple. No need for all of that fancy stuff that will just cost you money but not get you power. Eagle rods are a good rod for the money. Just make sure to steer away from lightweight parts for turbo. Don't go lower than a 12lb. flywheel or a lightened crank. For the bottom end, just make sure to use the right size bearings, and ARP rod bolts and it'll be bullet proof. After that, just figure out how much power you want to make to figure out what turbo, what size exhaust, and what size intercooler/piping to use. This setup should handle 500-600 no problem though with the only limiting factor being the rods. If you want to make more than that go with Pauter, Carillo, or Manley rods.
BTW, it's going to be tough trying to run ITB's with a turbo. ;P

As for the transmission and the axels, the transmission should hold up fine for <500 whp. But, you might want to look into some driveshaft shop axels.

aw but wait there bam bam he wants a common plenum for the itb's. which would look kinda cool but very curious about it myself.

aw but wait there bam bam he wants a common plenum for the itb's. which would look kinda cool but very curious about it myself.

I misunderstood his intentions. I still don't think ITB's are a good idea. Alot of the allmotor guys are loosing power with them just because they are sooooo damn hard to tune. Add boost into the equation, and I think he'd just be flirting with migranes. I've seen way better powerband results from ported ITR or ITR replica manifolds. Volume isn't the deciding factor of how much power an induction system will make. Velocity is just as, if not more important. This is evident in exhaust sizing, cam sizing, valve sizing, port sizing, etc.

i dont wanna sound confusing but..whats the reason u want 200whp? just a set goal u want for ur 4cyl? is there a certain 200whp car in ur neighborhood or online that facinates u? is there a 200whp car that ran a good et that ur impressed with? just wondering... not being a dick or nething

It's just a baseline, I have the old school in me that says that anything more than 10:1 power to weight isn't as safe as ppl might claim it to be... and the more power I have, the more I use... so 200 is a safe zone for me.

I'm trying to have fun with my car.. not die in it.. and I'm not one of those psycho wannabe's that wants 600 horses out of my 1.5 litre honda engine.. I know it most likely ain't gonna happen.


The ITB thing is more for the sound than anything, and since it's a *toy* car... I ain't really have a problem with tuning it all the time... I backed out of it though.. I'm going with a regular (ITR pry) manifold.

The ITB's are going in my '85 CRX, except I'm using 4 bike carbs instead of TB's. (So I don't have to piss around with switching from Carb to FI, and just because I feel like it.)

The "common plenum" idea on a ITB setup is for turbo app's mostly, becuase it's harder to split into four pipes (or 5,6,7,8,10,12, as the case may be) than to just put a airbox over the ITB's and push the boost into the box... and no, it doesn't take anything away from having ITB's over a manifold, b/c you still have 4 throttle plates, and they're still flowing more air, and still metering the air PER CYLINDER, as opposed to the air into a common plenum like a manifold.