Largest engine that mounts in the same way as my EF CRX?
Christ
11-21-2006, 10:20 AM
Just wondering, how big can I go, and still have the engine in the same direction... it's USDM, front engine mount on the left.
H series?
K series?
And will an H series bolt to a B series trans? Can I put a H head on a B series block?
Just trying to clear up some hear-say from the local area.
Also, what way does the C32A mount in the NSX or Acura Model cars? In other words, is the front of the engine on the left or right?
H series?
K series?
And will an H series bolt to a B series trans? Can I put a H head on a B series block?
Just trying to clear up some hear-say from the local area.
Also, what way does the C32A mount in the NSX or Acura Model cars? In other words, is the front of the engine on the left or right?
TheSilentChamber
11-21-2006, 11:33 AM
Your a dumb ass. (seperated on purpose)
maxassassin
11-21-2006, 11:55 AM
b series goes with b series h series goes with h series and a nsx motor cant be put into our cars.
TheSilentChamber
11-21-2006, 11:59 AM
a nsx motor cant be put into our cars.
Thats not true at all.
Thats not true at all.
FrodoGT
11-21-2006, 03:47 PM
Money talks... but besides that, you will always mount the engine in the same orientation, unless your rich and stupid, and decide to make it RWD. H series are a tight fit and require alot of mods to be done, the b series will fit, with engine mount, shift linkage, axles etc..but overall its a good fit (after all, the jdm ones came with it).
Tony
11-21-2006, 07:11 PM
Ok, B series goes with B Series. H series goes with H. Im pretty sure some of the H stuff will fit on a F series.
The C32 came in several Acura's. It came in the Legends and TL's I know for sure, and I think the CL's have a J32, which looks about the same, but mounts different. The C32 from the Legend and TL's sit like a RWD motor, but its still a FWD car. The Transmission runs back like a RWD, but has an output shaft on the right side of the motor that connects directly to a third member, which then turns the axles, which the left one runs straight through the oil pan. Quite an interesting setup, but unless you have some major cash, I wouldn't even bother with the idea.
The C32 came in several Acura's. It came in the Legends and TL's I know for sure, and I think the CL's have a J32, which looks about the same, but mounts different. The C32 from the Legend and TL's sit like a RWD motor, but its still a FWD car. The Transmission runs back like a RWD, but has an output shaft on the right side of the motor that connects directly to a third member, which then turns the axles, which the left one runs straight through the oil pan. Quite an interesting setup, but unless you have some major cash, I wouldn't even bother with the idea.
FrodoGT
11-22-2006, 02:54 AM
Sort of like a Toronado lol..Rediculous idea.
turtlecrxsi
11-22-2006, 08:44 AM
Sort of like a Toronado lol..Rediculous idea.
Also the 79' Buick Riviera was the same. I know because I had one. One winter, I spun the front tires for a long time on the steep driveway we had until the snow ice melted and I was able to gain traction on the cement. It was a freakin' pimp car!
Sphyder (moderator) has a Toronado now. Pretty wicked car.
This design is also used on the VW Passat 1.8t and is very efficient. I know because I have one with 185k miles on the clock.
Also the 79' Buick Riviera was the same. I know because I had one. One winter, I spun the front tires for a long time on the steep driveway we had until the snow ice melted and I was able to gain traction on the cement. It was a freakin' pimp car!
Sphyder (moderator) has a Toronado now. Pretty wicked car.
This design is also used on the VW Passat 1.8t and is very efficient. I know because I have one with 185k miles on the clock.
Christ
11-22-2006, 09:50 AM
mmk, that clears up alot of the shit that the tuner shop has been talking about B and H motors being interchangable parts...
The C-series idea was for a drag car I'm thinking about, and it's a 89 hatch that's pretty well fscked for a street car... I was gonna put it in the back.. and yes, it can be done, and has been done before.. you obviously don't watch amatuer drags. However, it was done with a CRX. (CRNSX was the "name" of the car.)
I won't be doing anything to it until I get my BMW the end of next year tho, other than working on getting the chassis fixed.
And TheSilentChamber, I don't mean to be a dick... but if you're going to insult someone, at least look up the proper spelling of the words YOU'RE using... it's not your... "your" shows possession. And "seperated" ain't a word. It's "separated". And before you say anything, yes, it IS ok to start a sentence with "and", and yes, "ain't" IS a word.. it's in Merriam-Webster's dictionary, and on the website. FYI. :)
Anyway, from some pics I've seen of finished installs, it looks like the K series mounts with the front of the engine on the left of the car as you're looking at the front of it.. or in the US, the pass side, that's why I asked... cuz I was thnking about doing a K24A sedan, cuz I will be able to get the motor and 6 spd from an RSX for $300 as soon as this kid wrecks it and sends it to the junkyard... (I love idiots that think they should do 110 everywhere on back roads and dirt...)
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17269 <(--- the front of the engine is on the passenger side there... but it doesn't say what it came from.
The C-series idea was for a drag car I'm thinking about, and it's a 89 hatch that's pretty well fscked for a street car... I was gonna put it in the back.. and yes, it can be done, and has been done before.. you obviously don't watch amatuer drags. However, it was done with a CRX. (CRNSX was the "name" of the car.)
I won't be doing anything to it until I get my BMW the end of next year tho, other than working on getting the chassis fixed.
And TheSilentChamber, I don't mean to be a dick... but if you're going to insult someone, at least look up the proper spelling of the words YOU'RE using... it's not your... "your" shows possession. And "seperated" ain't a word. It's "separated". And before you say anything, yes, it IS ok to start a sentence with "and", and yes, "ain't" IS a word.. it's in Merriam-Webster's dictionary, and on the website. FYI. :)
Anyway, from some pics I've seen of finished installs, it looks like the K series mounts with the front of the engine on the left of the car as you're looking at the front of it.. or in the US, the pass side, that's why I asked... cuz I was thnking about doing a K24A sedan, cuz I will be able to get the motor and 6 spd from an RSX for $300 as soon as this kid wrecks it and sends it to the junkyard... (I love idiots that think they should do 110 everywhere on back roads and dirt...)
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17269 <(--- the front of the engine is on the passenger side there... but it doesn't say what it came from.
Christ
11-22-2006, 09:58 AM
Oh yeah, there was also a few RWD CRX's done with Corvette motors and axles, etc... one of them was featured in grassroots magazine last year I believe, b/c it was built for that thing they do where you can only spend money on your car equal to the year it is... so like, if it's currently 2006, you can spend 2006 dollars... ya know.
I don't remember anything else about it, I just remember reading about it when I worked at sears, cuz the CSR that had a Miata was thinking about swapping a 429 into it... just for something new to do, and he used to read GrassRoots Motorsports magazine religiously.
I don't remember anything else about it, I just remember reading about it when I worked at sears, cuz the CSR that had a Miata was thinking about swapping a 429 into it... just for something new to do, and he used to read GrassRoots Motorsports magazine religiously.
turtlecrxsi
11-22-2006, 11:13 AM
Gohan Ryu
11-22-2006, 11:26 AM
bambam89lx
11-22-2006, 02:12 PM
There are alot of combination possibilities with honda motors though.
Some examples:
-H series motors can be bolted to B series trannies with a conversion kit
-H series motors can be bolted to F series transmissions and vise-versa
-H/F series share 99% of the same parts and design. Most parts are interchangeable
-F20C from the S2000 more closely resembles the K20 engine.
-Most parts from the F20C, F22/23, H22/H23, and K20 are all interchangeable like pistons, valves, etc. They pretty much all share the same bore sizes and wrist pin sizes, so pistons/rods are interchangeable.
-F20C valves can be run in K20 motors
-H22 valvetrain parts can be run in B series vtec heads
-K20 main bearings are the same as Bseries and are interchangeable
-B/D series use the same valve seals
-B series rods can be run in D series motors
The list can go on and on and on.
There are unlimited combinations. Most honda motors share the same parts and part numbers.
To answer your original questions.... You're best option price-wise would be to just swap in a Bseries OR swap in an H22 and use the Bseries transmission w/ conversion kit. FYI, all the extra weight from the H22 swap is from the transmission. The H22 motor is barely any larger or heavier than a Bseries motor by itself. By doing this, it would allow you to just use all the Bseries mounts, except for the driver's side, which you would just use the Hseries mount.
You could drop in a Kseries motor, but this is relatively more expensive because swap parts are more expensive. Swapping in a Kseries or Hseries motor in an EF is relatively just as easy as swapping in a Bseries. The only real extra required work is cutting off the passenger side bracket and welding/bolting on a new one. Nothing too difficult. The motor sit's on the opposite side, but it's still FWD, so it doesn't matter. I just finished swapping in a couple K's this summer into EF's and EG's, they were pretty simple. Around here....there's too many people running around with K swapped EF's as daily driver's. It's a good base to build on, but overrated and not worth the money. My lsvtec setup walks all over any local K swapped EF's...no lie.
You can't swap head's between any of the series except between F22/23 and H22/23 motors.
Some examples:
-H series motors can be bolted to B series trannies with a conversion kit
-H series motors can be bolted to F series transmissions and vise-versa
-H/F series share 99% of the same parts and design. Most parts are interchangeable
-F20C from the S2000 more closely resembles the K20 engine.
-Most parts from the F20C, F22/23, H22/H23, and K20 are all interchangeable like pistons, valves, etc. They pretty much all share the same bore sizes and wrist pin sizes, so pistons/rods are interchangeable.
-F20C valves can be run in K20 motors
-H22 valvetrain parts can be run in B series vtec heads
-K20 main bearings are the same as Bseries and are interchangeable
-B/D series use the same valve seals
-B series rods can be run in D series motors
The list can go on and on and on.
There are unlimited combinations. Most honda motors share the same parts and part numbers.
To answer your original questions.... You're best option price-wise would be to just swap in a Bseries OR swap in an H22 and use the Bseries transmission w/ conversion kit. FYI, all the extra weight from the H22 swap is from the transmission. The H22 motor is barely any larger or heavier than a Bseries motor by itself. By doing this, it would allow you to just use all the Bseries mounts, except for the driver's side, which you would just use the Hseries mount.
You could drop in a Kseries motor, but this is relatively more expensive because swap parts are more expensive. Swapping in a Kseries or Hseries motor in an EF is relatively just as easy as swapping in a Bseries. The only real extra required work is cutting off the passenger side bracket and welding/bolting on a new one. Nothing too difficult. The motor sit's on the opposite side, but it's still FWD, so it doesn't matter. I just finished swapping in a couple K's this summer into EF's and EG's, they were pretty simple. Around here....there's too many people running around with K swapped EF's as daily driver's. It's a good base to build on, but overrated and not worth the money. My lsvtec setup walks all over any local K swapped EF's...no lie.
You can't swap head's between any of the series except between F22/23 and H22/23 motors.
Tony
11-22-2006, 06:54 PM
The reason the K series has the motor on the Right side of the car(passenger side, you always go from inside the car facing the front), is because Honda changed up the design and decided to be like most other manufacturers. It is not because of where the car was built. That only changes what side the steering wheel is on...and the like components.
But believe BamBam on what he says, very seldom he is wrong about something. If he isn't sure on something, he usually don't post it.
But believe BamBam on what he says, very seldom he is wrong about something. If he isn't sure on something, he usually don't post it.
Christ
11-23-2006, 03:16 PM
yeah, but the thing is, I"d rather have the engine sitting in there the way it's "supposed to be" lol.. I"m picky about my cars, and when I modify them, everything has to look like it's still primarily stock, or at least COULD have come that way from the factory.. I don't like to change the entire car... I just like to make the car better than it was, and still look like it IS or at least SHOULD have been a factory option, though most of the parts I use weren't available when the car was built..
so yeah, pry be going with an LS/Vtec build.. after I spend a few exhausting hours looking up EVERY bit of info I can find on them, since the "local tuner" shop isn't exactly a big help on anything other than finding blown engines if you wanna buy something that's broken and fix it...
They thought they could build an LS/Vtec motor, run it 12.5:1 with 250 N2O and 12PSI, and the stock block/sleeves/head gasket would handle it... (keep in mind they spent some 2000 on upgrading the pistons, wrist pins, and rods, and a set of "nitrous race bearings" that they found laying in some shop in NY... )
So yeah, I just won't be going there anymore, unless I plan on buying one of their half done projects or something.
so yeah, pry be going with an LS/Vtec build.. after I spend a few exhausting hours looking up EVERY bit of info I can find on them, since the "local tuner" shop isn't exactly a big help on anything other than finding blown engines if you wanna buy something that's broken and fix it...
They thought they could build an LS/Vtec motor, run it 12.5:1 with 250 N2O and 12PSI, and the stock block/sleeves/head gasket would handle it... (keep in mind they spent some 2000 on upgrading the pistons, wrist pins, and rods, and a set of "nitrous race bearings" that they found laying in some shop in NY... )
So yeah, I just won't be going there anymore, unless I plan on buying one of their half done projects or something.
bambam89lx
11-23-2006, 07:04 PM
yeah, but the thing is, I"d rather have the engine sitting in there the way it's "supposed to be" lol.. I"m picky about my cars, and when I modify them, everything has to look like it's still primarily stock, or at least COULD have come that way from the factory.. I don't like to change the entire car... I just like to make the car better than it was, and still look like it IS or at least SHOULD have been a factory option, though most of the parts I use weren't available when the car was built..
so yeah, pry be going with an LS/Vtec build.. after I spend a few exhausting hours looking up EVERY bit of info I can find on them, since the "local tuner" shop isn't exactly a big help on anything other than finding blown engines if you wanna buy something that's broken and fix it...
They thought they could build an LS/Vtec motor, run it 12.5:1 with 250 N2O and 12PSI, and the stock block/sleeves/head gasket would handle it... (keep in mind they spent some 2000 on upgrading the pistons, wrist pins, and rods, and a set of "nitrous race bearings" that they found laying in some shop in NY... )
So yeah, I just won't be going there anymore, unless I plan on buying one of their half done projects or something.
:smokin: Steer away from that shop. They smokin' c-r-a-c-k. Wow, what's the name of that place? I need to make sure no one I know ever speaks their name.
Search this forum for "how to build a reliable lsvtec/b20vtec". Trust me, EVERYTHING you need to know is in that post. I made sure of it. It's actually stickied on numerous forums.
so yeah, pry be going with an LS/Vtec build.. after I spend a few exhausting hours looking up EVERY bit of info I can find on them, since the "local tuner" shop isn't exactly a big help on anything other than finding blown engines if you wanna buy something that's broken and fix it...
They thought they could build an LS/Vtec motor, run it 12.5:1 with 250 N2O and 12PSI, and the stock block/sleeves/head gasket would handle it... (keep in mind they spent some 2000 on upgrading the pistons, wrist pins, and rods, and a set of "nitrous race bearings" that they found laying in some shop in NY... )
So yeah, I just won't be going there anymore, unless I plan on buying one of their half done projects or something.
:smokin: Steer away from that shop. They smokin' c-r-a-c-k. Wow, what's the name of that place? I need to make sure no one I know ever speaks their name.
Search this forum for "how to build a reliable lsvtec/b20vtec". Trust me, EVERYTHING you need to know is in that post. I made sure of it. It's actually stickied on numerous forums.
Christ
11-23-2006, 11:59 PM
it's actually called Kaotic Kustomz... they do pretty nice body work... but they actually let ppl work on their own cars in their shop... I.E. I could go down there, give them money to buy parts, and install them myself, even if I was a complete newb to motors all together... and be unsupervised doing it.
They also have an untuned delsol outside that LOOKS nice... but that's about it.. they're too concerned about the show scene, and not enough about actual performance.
Anyway, if you ever make it to Carlisle, Pa, you might meet up with Andy down there, at the car shows... he goes to them regularly, never wins anything.
They also have an untuned delsol outside that LOOKS nice... but that's about it.. they're too concerned about the show scene, and not enough about actual performance.
Anyway, if you ever make it to Carlisle, Pa, you might meet up with Andy down there, at the car shows... he goes to them regularly, never wins anything.
bambam89lx
11-24-2006, 07:05 AM
it's actually called Kaotic Kustomz... they do pretty nice body work... but they actually let ppl work on their own cars in their shop... I.E. I could go down there, give them money to buy parts, and install them myself, even if I was a complete newb to motors all together... and be unsupervised doing it.
They also have an untuned delsol outside that LOOKS nice... but that's about it.. they're too concerned about the show scene, and not enough about actual performance.
Anyway, if you ever make it to Carlisle, Pa, you might meet up with Andy down there, at the car shows... he goes to them regularly, never wins anything.
I go down to Philly a few times a year to see Mcnabb and the boys do the dirty. My family's from Philly. I do have a couple of buddies on HT that are out of Carlisle. Iunno....it might happen. I have to travel out of state to hit the tracks anyway.
As for you wanting your engine bay to look stock...that's not going to happen; it's a Honda. Just swap in whatever you want. Any real honda enthusiast is going to know what you have. Shit, it's easy as hell to tell if a honda is swapped. I can tell just by the sound of your exhaust for one, and if that doesn't help, just look under the car and see the header/oil pan hanging lower. I don't need to pop a hood on a honda to know what motor is in there.
They also have an untuned delsol outside that LOOKS nice... but that's about it.. they're too concerned about the show scene, and not enough about actual performance.
Anyway, if you ever make it to Carlisle, Pa, you might meet up with Andy down there, at the car shows... he goes to them regularly, never wins anything.
I go down to Philly a few times a year to see Mcnabb and the boys do the dirty. My family's from Philly. I do have a couple of buddies on HT that are out of Carlisle. Iunno....it might happen. I have to travel out of state to hit the tracks anyway.
As for you wanting your engine bay to look stock...that's not going to happen; it's a Honda. Just swap in whatever you want. Any real honda enthusiast is going to know what you have. Shit, it's easy as hell to tell if a honda is swapped. I can tell just by the sound of your exhaust for one, and if that doesn't help, just look under the car and see the header/oil pan hanging lower. I don't need to pop a hood on a honda to know what motor is in there.
Christ
11-24-2006, 11:00 AM
well, I know a honda enthusiast is going to know... I just mean like.. regular joe's... the ppl that don't know/understand/believe what we know we can do with our cars.
Tony
11-24-2006, 02:54 PM
Hey I know those types of people, they are everywhere at the track I race at....thats one main reason I race Honda, they all think it takes a lot of money to make one fast...they can keep believing that too.
bambam89lx
11-24-2006, 06:14 PM
Hey I know those types of people, they are everywhere at the track I race at....thats one main reason I race Honda, they all think it takes a lot of money to make one fast...they can keep believing that too.
I spent 3200 to build my motor.
another 500 for tranny
another 450 for mounts/linkage
another 215 for BFG Drag Radials
another 400 for a crx shell
=4765
That's how much it cost me to run consistent 12's all motor, reliably.
Another 2 grand for a sleeved 85mm bottom and I can consistently run 11's all motor, reliably. All that WITHOUT any weight reduction too.
Tell me what's better for the money quarter-mile wise?
I spent 3200 to build my motor.
another 500 for tranny
another 450 for mounts/linkage
another 215 for BFG Drag Radials
another 400 for a crx shell
=4765
That's how much it cost me to run consistent 12's all motor, reliably.
Another 2 grand for a sleeved 85mm bottom and I can consistently run 11's all motor, reliably. All that WITHOUT any weight reduction too.
Tell me what's better for the money quarter-mile wise?
Tony
11-24-2006, 06:22 PM
What I find hilarious is the fact the man guy that thinks it takes a "wad of cash to make a honda fast" drove a damn Lincoln FWD out there.
My EG is the lightest car out there, doesn't have the most horsepower, but last year with bad rings and the Vtec never kicking in, they never did run off and leave me.
My EG is the lightest car out there, doesn't have the most horsepower, but last year with bad rings and the Vtec never kicking in, they never did run off and leave me.
sittin_slideways
11-25-2006, 01:52 PM
H22's will fit in an EF but requires custom mounts and "denting". Specially placed dents in the engine bay for everything to fit. I would stay away from the h22 in an EF and go for something like a K or maybe a CR/Vtec
bambam89lx
11-26-2006, 01:11 PM
H22's will fit in an EF but requires custom mounts and "denting". Specially placed dents in the engine bay for everything to fit. I would stay away from the h22 in an EF and go for something like a K or maybe a CR/Vtec
I'd personally do the H22 before the K. Dollar for power, the H22 outweighs the K by far. The H22's respond to mods VERY well as well.
I'd personally do the H22 before the K. Dollar for power, the H22 outweighs the K by far. The H22's respond to mods VERY well as well.
sittin_slideways
11-27-2006, 01:04 PM
I'd personally do the H22 before the K. Dollar for power, the H22 outweighs the K by far. The H22's respond to mods VERY well as well.
Yes it does respond well to NA mods, but if you plan to go turbo I'd stay away from the H22. The K and B, and even D series motors respond much better to boost
Yes it does respond well to NA mods, but if you plan to go turbo I'd stay away from the H22. The K and B, and even D series motors respond much better to boost
bambam89lx
11-29-2006, 03:19 PM
Yes it does respond well to NA mods, but if you plan to go turbo I'd stay away from the H22. The K and B, and even D series motors respond much better to boost
I'm biased towards the B myself, but that statement is totally untrue. it's true, the H22's stock FRM sleeves can't be bored, or forged pistons run with them. No problem, just sleeve it.
I'm biased towards the B myself, but that statement is totally untrue. it's true, the H22's stock FRM sleeves can't be bored, or forged pistons run with them. No problem, just sleeve it.
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