1995 lumina has thick gunk in engine ...
kim69
11-20-2006, 07:44 AM
HELP!!! My lumina has a lot of gunk in the engine and overheats in 2min. of being turned on. Someone told me to get the radiator & engine flushed but I need to know if I should save it. My kids need a reliable car and I don't if this is it!!
gw84
11-20-2006, 11:47 AM
when was the last time you had the oil changed?
jeffcoslacker
11-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Sounds like you are mixing oil and coolant. Intake gasket is most likely cause, very common. Continue to run it, and you'll need bearings too, if not already...
Blue Bowtie
11-20-2006, 01:21 PM
Exactly where "in the engine" is this gunk located? In the sump? In the rocker covers? In the cooling system?
kim69
11-20-2006, 10:29 PM
I get an oil change every 3 months. The gunk is in the sump of the engine. Did I mention that the radiator had a lot of orange gunk in it also? I got that replaced about a year ago and the orange crap is still there. My heat doesn't get cold either, it just blows out cold air. Wish it was summer.
richtazz
11-21-2006, 05:55 AM
lack of heat and gunky oil are sure signs of an intake gasket failure. This is a very common issue with the 3.1, and needs to be fixed ASAP before a head gasket (due to coolant loss and subsequent overheating) or lower end bearings (due to coolant diluting the oil) fail as well.
kim69
11-21-2006, 08:44 AM
Thanks for all your advice. I greatly appreciate all the responses.
Blue Bowtie
11-21-2006, 10:44 AM
The "gunk" in the sump could be due to various problems. One of those is the mixing of coolant an oil, as richtazz is suggesting. He gave you the short, to-the-point explanation. I, on the other hand, seldom pass up the opportunity to engage "verbose" mode...
The potential problem which richtazz described needs to be resolved before anything else. The fact that the radiator was apparently clogged to the point of requiring replacement indicates a cooling system problem. Organic acid coolants (such as DexCool) are not very tolerant of air in the system. If the coolant level is allowed to drop so that air is allowed in the system, the coolant can precipitate solids which can clog cooling passages, radiators, heater cores, and such. Leaks can cause that.
Further, loss of coolant at the intake flanges can allow coolant to leak into the lubrication drains and into the sump. The resulting emulsification of oil, water, and glycol can make a milky or murky appearance to the oil. If the leakage is worse, the oil level can actually increase, or coolant can be ingested into the combustion chambers. If sufficient coolant is in a combustion chamber, the engine can hydro-lock, causing catastrophic damage like bent rods, broken pistons and wrist pins, cracked heads, and such.
Even a small amount of coolant mixed into the oil can cause problems. The glycol and additives in the coolant can etch the soft metals from critical engine bearing shells, rendering them useless. The net result can be a spun or hammered bearing, destruction of the crankshaft, and scrapping the engine.
None of this is intended to be frightening, but only to explain the importance of resolving the problem as soon as possible. Ignoring it can have catastrophic consequences. The good thing is that you are aware of a problem, and that diagnosing it can be relatively easy. Pressure test the system. Whether you do this yourself or have a shop perform the test, be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN a pressure test is performed while the engine is at full operating temperature, AND while the engine is completely cold. The relative positions of the intake and cylinder heads is affected by temperature, so demand that the test be done both ways, or find a shop that will comply. Leakage at those joints is a common problem, as richtazz explained.
If a cooling system pressure test reveals no leakage, and the coolant level does not decrease over time, you are fortunate. If there is leakage, you need to repair the problem(s) before you have to replace the vehicle.
Presuming the cooling system is not leaking, sludge in the cooling system can be due to air as mentioned earlier, or insufficient coolant fortification, usually from old, exhausted coolant. The system would need to be flushed completely then refilled. That alone may solve the problem with lack of heat in the passenger compartment.
As for the oil, if you determine that the cooling system is not leaking, a murky appearance can also be due to atmospheric moisture in the crankcase mixing with the oil. This is most prevalent in cooler temperature, in higher humidity areas, and when the vehicle is used for many short trips and not allowed to reach full operating temperature for extended periods of time. Longer trips at full engine temperature will force moisture in the oil to evaporate and be expelled from the crankcase. Short trips do not. This problem can be worse if the PCV system is not functioning properly, since that is what removes the vapors from the crankcase.
The next question is the type of lubricant being used. Many mineral oils mix with water more readily (emulsify) and have to be heated more to drive off the moisture. Consider changing brands or even switching to a PAO synthetic lubricant. In my past experience, Quaker State / Pennzoil (same company) seem to exhibit this tendency more than others. If you are using those, consider a switch to Mobil or Valvoline in the proper viscosity range. If you are having the oil changed at a "Quick Lube" or similar establishment, ask what products are being used and what options are available. There are many places like this, and you should be able to find one to provide the products you suggest.
Oddly, many dealership service departments also offer a "Quick Lube" service, and frequently have coupons of special offers at prices which compete with the "Quick Lube" places. The benefit to this is that once your vehicle is in the dealership service bay, they can detect problems specific to your vehicle. No one knows your car better than the factory trained service people, and they also have full access to recall and TSB information which may be relevant. They will frequently check thing the other places aren't aware of and which you didn't even know about. It's not that I'm advocating using the dealership service department, since that's usually near the bottom of the list of places I would go (for various reasons), but there are distinct advantages to their service. Even for a few extra dollars, it's worth it to go through the dealer service bay once in a while just to make sure the vehicle gets a close and proper inspection. They are certainly going to try to find things which are a problem, since that's the prime source of their income. However, you should also get a full report of their discoveries, and it's always better to know the condition than to ignore it. You can decide if and what will be addressed.
In a nutshell, pressure test the cooling system as soon as you can, and act on that information.
The potential problem which richtazz described needs to be resolved before anything else. The fact that the radiator was apparently clogged to the point of requiring replacement indicates a cooling system problem. Organic acid coolants (such as DexCool) are not very tolerant of air in the system. If the coolant level is allowed to drop so that air is allowed in the system, the coolant can precipitate solids which can clog cooling passages, radiators, heater cores, and such. Leaks can cause that.
Further, loss of coolant at the intake flanges can allow coolant to leak into the lubrication drains and into the sump. The resulting emulsification of oil, water, and glycol can make a milky or murky appearance to the oil. If the leakage is worse, the oil level can actually increase, or coolant can be ingested into the combustion chambers. If sufficient coolant is in a combustion chamber, the engine can hydro-lock, causing catastrophic damage like bent rods, broken pistons and wrist pins, cracked heads, and such.
Even a small amount of coolant mixed into the oil can cause problems. The glycol and additives in the coolant can etch the soft metals from critical engine bearing shells, rendering them useless. The net result can be a spun or hammered bearing, destruction of the crankshaft, and scrapping the engine.
None of this is intended to be frightening, but only to explain the importance of resolving the problem as soon as possible. Ignoring it can have catastrophic consequences. The good thing is that you are aware of a problem, and that diagnosing it can be relatively easy. Pressure test the system. Whether you do this yourself or have a shop perform the test, be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN a pressure test is performed while the engine is at full operating temperature, AND while the engine is completely cold. The relative positions of the intake and cylinder heads is affected by temperature, so demand that the test be done both ways, or find a shop that will comply. Leakage at those joints is a common problem, as richtazz explained.
If a cooling system pressure test reveals no leakage, and the coolant level does not decrease over time, you are fortunate. If there is leakage, you need to repair the problem(s) before you have to replace the vehicle.
Presuming the cooling system is not leaking, sludge in the cooling system can be due to air as mentioned earlier, or insufficient coolant fortification, usually from old, exhausted coolant. The system would need to be flushed completely then refilled. That alone may solve the problem with lack of heat in the passenger compartment.
As for the oil, if you determine that the cooling system is not leaking, a murky appearance can also be due to atmospheric moisture in the crankcase mixing with the oil. This is most prevalent in cooler temperature, in higher humidity areas, and when the vehicle is used for many short trips and not allowed to reach full operating temperature for extended periods of time. Longer trips at full engine temperature will force moisture in the oil to evaporate and be expelled from the crankcase. Short trips do not. This problem can be worse if the PCV system is not functioning properly, since that is what removes the vapors from the crankcase.
The next question is the type of lubricant being used. Many mineral oils mix with water more readily (emulsify) and have to be heated more to drive off the moisture. Consider changing brands or even switching to a PAO synthetic lubricant. In my past experience, Quaker State / Pennzoil (same company) seem to exhibit this tendency more than others. If you are using those, consider a switch to Mobil or Valvoline in the proper viscosity range. If you are having the oil changed at a "Quick Lube" or similar establishment, ask what products are being used and what options are available. There are many places like this, and you should be able to find one to provide the products you suggest.
Oddly, many dealership service departments also offer a "Quick Lube" service, and frequently have coupons of special offers at prices which compete with the "Quick Lube" places. The benefit to this is that once your vehicle is in the dealership service bay, they can detect problems specific to your vehicle. No one knows your car better than the factory trained service people, and they also have full access to recall and TSB information which may be relevant. They will frequently check thing the other places aren't aware of and which you didn't even know about. It's not that I'm advocating using the dealership service department, since that's usually near the bottom of the list of places I would go (for various reasons), but there are distinct advantages to their service. Even for a few extra dollars, it's worth it to go through the dealer service bay once in a while just to make sure the vehicle gets a close and proper inspection. They are certainly going to try to find things which are a problem, since that's the prime source of their income. However, you should also get a full report of their discoveries, and it's always better to know the condition than to ignore it. You can decide if and what will be addressed.
In a nutshell, pressure test the cooling system as soon as you can, and act on that information.
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