Oil effecting milage
Ian Szgatti
11-17-2006, 02:43 PM
Oil quality. Should you go with a synthetic? Stick to Uncle Skippy's re-processed? Well, oil quality to some degree matters. I still use a petroleum based oil of reasonable quality, brand new stuff that wasn't filtered and rebottled.
I can drive thousands of kilometers though and still have clean looking oil on a 3300 v6 with 280,000 kilometers. I mean sickeningly clean. Close the hood with a feeling of pride clean. It comes down to the process in which oil is changed.
I realized some time ago that fuel and moisture can mix in with oil during drive cycles. I know that the moisture can mix with other present chemicals and become acidic, and cause an increase in friction.
Fuel in the oil decreases its ability to lubricate, lowers its ability to suspend particles, and the small amount that gets into the combustion chamber increases emmision levels and dirtys the heck out of the engine.
Solution... When changing oil, I first drain the old out. I remove the old oil filter and drain it. I clean the old filter with a brake cleaner and reinstall it. When I bought the oil for the oil change, I also bought two liters of bulk oil and a solution used for removing shmegma from inside the motor. Engine flush... If you dont trust whats in the can, buy a can of parts cleaner and add some engine shampoo to it (a small amount).
I take the bulk oil and put it in a big container, then add my cleaning solution to it as well. Now I have just over three liters to pour in the motor. It's thinner than oil, but it will portect the engine during the short period its in the crankcase.
I dump it in and start the motor. The key really is to let the throttle hold around 1500 rpm for at least two minutes. Then increase by another 500 rpm, hold that for a minute. Then, take the RPM's up smoothly, fairly high, and slowly let off until your idle. Idle for a couple minutes, and shut off the motor.
Now I already had drained out my old oil, which was dark and smelly, but when I go under this time to drain out the cleaning solution... TA DA! It's still dirty!
Well, I have cleaned out garbage from the oil passages, bearing surfaces, pump pick-up screen, oil control rings, oil pan, etc. I then take off the oil filter again and dispose of it.
I then install the new oil filter, and after having drained the cleaning solution for a few minutes, I top it up with fresh clear Castrol GTX.
Folks, the fist time or to I did this it really cleaned it out. Now I still do it for good measure, but it's signifigantly cleaner.
Point is, this will make your engine last a very long time, and it will increase your fuel economy by making your inards clean and slippery. Try this method every single time you change oil, you won't regret it... the results speak for themselves.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/7986.shtml
I get 21 mpg in this 280k engine, the link is to the new car (In 1991) average economy rating. I do have to drive very conservatively to get this 21 mpg though, otherwise I can drink it up pretty good.
I can drive thousands of kilometers though and still have clean looking oil on a 3300 v6 with 280,000 kilometers. I mean sickeningly clean. Close the hood with a feeling of pride clean. It comes down to the process in which oil is changed.
I realized some time ago that fuel and moisture can mix in with oil during drive cycles. I know that the moisture can mix with other present chemicals and become acidic, and cause an increase in friction.
Fuel in the oil decreases its ability to lubricate, lowers its ability to suspend particles, and the small amount that gets into the combustion chamber increases emmision levels and dirtys the heck out of the engine.
Solution... When changing oil, I first drain the old out. I remove the old oil filter and drain it. I clean the old filter with a brake cleaner and reinstall it. When I bought the oil for the oil change, I also bought two liters of bulk oil and a solution used for removing shmegma from inside the motor. Engine flush... If you dont trust whats in the can, buy a can of parts cleaner and add some engine shampoo to it (a small amount).
I take the bulk oil and put it in a big container, then add my cleaning solution to it as well. Now I have just over three liters to pour in the motor. It's thinner than oil, but it will portect the engine during the short period its in the crankcase.
I dump it in and start the motor. The key really is to let the throttle hold around 1500 rpm for at least two minutes. Then increase by another 500 rpm, hold that for a minute. Then, take the RPM's up smoothly, fairly high, and slowly let off until your idle. Idle for a couple minutes, and shut off the motor.
Now I already had drained out my old oil, which was dark and smelly, but when I go under this time to drain out the cleaning solution... TA DA! It's still dirty!
Well, I have cleaned out garbage from the oil passages, bearing surfaces, pump pick-up screen, oil control rings, oil pan, etc. I then take off the oil filter again and dispose of it.
I then install the new oil filter, and after having drained the cleaning solution for a few minutes, I top it up with fresh clear Castrol GTX.
Folks, the fist time or to I did this it really cleaned it out. Now I still do it for good measure, but it's signifigantly cleaner.
Point is, this will make your engine last a very long time, and it will increase your fuel economy by making your inards clean and slippery. Try this method every single time you change oil, you won't regret it... the results speak for themselves.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/7986.shtml
I get 21 mpg in this 280k engine, the link is to the new car (In 1991) average economy rating. I do have to drive very conservatively to get this 21 mpg though, otherwise I can drink it up pretty good.
bm2boats
12-17-2006, 08:35 AM
Hmmm.. sounds good. But, by pouring in a Cleaner, won't you loosen up the larger parts that can clog up the inner workings of the oil Pump? If not, I'll give it a try.
Ian Szgatti
12-17-2006, 09:09 AM
Hmmm.. sounds good. But, by pouring in a Cleaner, won't you loosen up the larger parts that can clog up the inner workings of the oil Pump? If not, I'll give it a try.
There won't be anything large enough or hard enough in your engine to stop your pump in anyway. The cleaner should be a quality product. It's main function is to loosen and disolve sludge, varnish, and any other contaminates lodged in the oil control rings or oil passages. Believe me... unless they are large metal shavings, your oil pump will smash right through it.
The only problem is there is a cost to doing this if you don't do it yourself. Along with that, you can't be sure somebody else is taking the care with the process needed for optimal results.
For proof, you should install and oil pressure gauge before doing this. Compare your readings before and after. Find out what your pressure should be. You'll notice a difference. Mainly, if your engine oil is circulating freely, your oil pump is not working as hard. That alone fractionally increases fuel economy. Not only that, but any acidic contaminants in your engine will be removed, translating unlimately into a clean, protected engine.
There won't be anything large enough or hard enough in your engine to stop your pump in anyway. The cleaner should be a quality product. It's main function is to loosen and disolve sludge, varnish, and any other contaminates lodged in the oil control rings or oil passages. Believe me... unless they are large metal shavings, your oil pump will smash right through it.
The only problem is there is a cost to doing this if you don't do it yourself. Along with that, you can't be sure somebody else is taking the care with the process needed for optimal results.
For proof, you should install and oil pressure gauge before doing this. Compare your readings before and after. Find out what your pressure should be. You'll notice a difference. Mainly, if your engine oil is circulating freely, your oil pump is not working as hard. That alone fractionally increases fuel economy. Not only that, but any acidic contaminants in your engine will be removed, translating unlimately into a clean, protected engine.
MT-2500
12-17-2006, 09:43 AM
There won't be anything large enough or hard enough in your engine to stop your pump in anyway. The cleaner should be a quality product. It's main function is to loosen and disolve sludge, varnish, and any other contaminates lodged in the oil control rings or oil passages. Believe me... unless they are large metal shavings, your oil pump will smash right through it.
The only problem is there is a cost to doing this if you don't do it yourself. Along with that, you can't be sure somebody else is taking the care with the process needed for optimal results.
For proof, you should install and oil pressure gauge before doing this. Compare your readings before and after. Find out what your pressure should be. You'll notice a difference. Mainly, if your engine oil is circulating freely, your oil pump is not working as hard. That alone fractionally increases fuel economy. Not only that, but any acidic contaminants in your engine will be removed, translating unlimately into a clean, protected engine.
The only good safe cleaner is fresh new oil and a good new filter when it is time to change it.
I have saw a lot of oil additives and cleaner crap kill a good engine.:lol2: :grinyes: :lol:
The same thing on transmissions.
To Flush or not To Flush ?
Just like Kenney Rodgers said you have got to know when to fold and when to hold.
If the fluid has high mileage 100K or over or is real dirty you had better hold.
On a trans that has had good regular service at 50K or sooner a flush is good.
But be ware of jiffie/quick/wallmart /fast lubes that offer power and fast flushes.
They have abused and over rated the trans flush.
They have a habit of using one fit all fluid out of the same barrel that fits all.
They just throw in a bottle of additive to make it fit all. Or worse they pitch in a bottle of cleaner or dope in it that can do more harm than good. And will tell you the filter does not need changing with a flush.
Just remember that all new fluid makes a high detergent cleaner that will break loose all varnish and dirt and grit in the trans and drop it in valve body and solenoids.
Always change the filter and go easy on or use no dope and cleaner.
Adjust/check the bands and linkage on the trans that have bands and adjustments.
Always use the trans fluid the trans/manf calls for. And be aware that some manf have changed the type of fluid specs since the trans was manf.
Some fords have changed the specs and a lot of cry/dodge have gone to the newer type of fluid on their trans service.
Also some fords have tsb’s and require a total complete trans flush to cure trans shifting problems. Some as low as 30K
If a person does not have a flush machine a old 5 gallon bucket and a couple of rubber hoses to connect to the cooler lines and with the other end in the bucket will make a good flush machine. Just put the hoses in the bucket and start the engine and start pouring fluid into the trans until the fluid running into the bucket gets good and clean.
It usually takes 16-20 qts. To get a good flush.
Flush or No flush always service the trans filter and trans on a good regular basic.
People that keep the serviced have a lot less trans problems.
The only problem is there is a cost to doing this if you don't do it yourself. Along with that, you can't be sure somebody else is taking the care with the process needed for optimal results.
For proof, you should install and oil pressure gauge before doing this. Compare your readings before and after. Find out what your pressure should be. You'll notice a difference. Mainly, if your engine oil is circulating freely, your oil pump is not working as hard. That alone fractionally increases fuel economy. Not only that, but any acidic contaminants in your engine will be removed, translating unlimately into a clean, protected engine.
The only good safe cleaner is fresh new oil and a good new filter when it is time to change it.
I have saw a lot of oil additives and cleaner crap kill a good engine.:lol2: :grinyes: :lol:
The same thing on transmissions.
To Flush or not To Flush ?
Just like Kenney Rodgers said you have got to know when to fold and when to hold.
If the fluid has high mileage 100K or over or is real dirty you had better hold.
On a trans that has had good regular service at 50K or sooner a flush is good.
But be ware of jiffie/quick/wallmart /fast lubes that offer power and fast flushes.
They have abused and over rated the trans flush.
They have a habit of using one fit all fluid out of the same barrel that fits all.
They just throw in a bottle of additive to make it fit all. Or worse they pitch in a bottle of cleaner or dope in it that can do more harm than good. And will tell you the filter does not need changing with a flush.
Just remember that all new fluid makes a high detergent cleaner that will break loose all varnish and dirt and grit in the trans and drop it in valve body and solenoids.
Always change the filter and go easy on or use no dope and cleaner.
Adjust/check the bands and linkage on the trans that have bands and adjustments.
Always use the trans fluid the trans/manf calls for. And be aware that some manf have changed the type of fluid specs since the trans was manf.
Some fords have changed the specs and a lot of cry/dodge have gone to the newer type of fluid on their trans service.
Also some fords have tsb’s and require a total complete trans flush to cure trans shifting problems. Some as low as 30K
If a person does not have a flush machine a old 5 gallon bucket and a couple of rubber hoses to connect to the cooler lines and with the other end in the bucket will make a good flush machine. Just put the hoses in the bucket and start the engine and start pouring fluid into the trans until the fluid running into the bucket gets good and clean.
It usually takes 16-20 qts. To get a good flush.
Flush or No flush always service the trans filter and trans on a good regular basic.
People that keep the serviced have a lot less trans problems.
Ian Szgatti
12-17-2006, 11:04 AM
The only good safe cleaner is fresh new oil and a good new filter when it is time to change it.
I have saw a lot of oil additives and cleaner crap kill a good engine.:lol2: :grinyes: :lol:
How about some examples... my boss was GM driveability tech for 25+ years and operates his own shop now. Not only do I understand the science behind this procedure, I take his word for it. What are your examples of damage done by cleaning your engine. By the way, I didnt mention post additives as benificial.
I have saw a lot of oil additives and cleaner crap kill a good engine.:lol2: :grinyes: :lol:
How about some examples... my boss was GM driveability tech for 25+ years and operates his own shop now. Not only do I understand the science behind this procedure, I take his word for it. What are your examples of damage done by cleaning your engine. By the way, I didnt mention post additives as benificial.
MT-2500
12-17-2006, 11:26 AM
How about some examples... my boss was GM driveability tech for 25+ years and operates his own shop now. Not only do I understand the science behind this procedure, I take his word for it. What are your examples of damage done by cleaning your engine. By the way, I didnt mention post additives as benificial.
In over 45 years I have saw a lot of engine damage from so called cleaners and oil additives and snake oils.
Old slick 50 was one of the most famous ones.
Dump it in a high mileage dirty engine and all of the sludge winds up in the oil pump screen.
And GOOD BUY ENGINE.
But same thing applies to any cleaner.
Dump it in and sludge breaks lose and winds up in the oil pump or screen or oil pump passages.
When sludge gets broke or cleaned lose it goes threw thew the engine oiling system before the filter can catch it.
And so it can spell Good buy engine. :rofl: :lol2:
The only safe cleaner or additive is good fresh oil and filter.
MT
In over 45 years I have saw a lot of engine damage from so called cleaners and oil additives and snake oils.
Old slick 50 was one of the most famous ones.
Dump it in a high mileage dirty engine and all of the sludge winds up in the oil pump screen.
And GOOD BUY ENGINE.
But same thing applies to any cleaner.
Dump it in and sludge breaks lose and winds up in the oil pump or screen or oil pump passages.
When sludge gets broke or cleaned lose it goes threw thew the engine oiling system before the filter can catch it.
And so it can spell Good buy engine. :rofl: :lol2:
The only safe cleaner or additive is good fresh oil and filter.
MT
Ian Szgatti
12-17-2006, 12:15 PM
Dump it in a high mileage dirty engine and all of the sludge winds up in the oil pump screen.
And GOOD BUY ENGINE.
But same thing applies to any cleaner.
Dump it in and sludge breaks lose and winds up in the oil pump or screen or oil pump passages.
I suppose, based on what your saying, a really dirty engine will have this problem. Concider though the method in which this flush is carried out.
430 ml to 2 liters of fresh oil. This is a strong dilution. The sludge yur talking about really wouldnt hold up against this mixture. surely you'd expect that if a detergent can break down deposits enough to free them, it must then have the ability to break them down further. Thats were dilution and exposure time come into play.
What your saying is obviously valid without question; what I'm saying is that the method makes a difference. I first attempted this process with a 260,000 kilometer engine. Based on its condition and previous ownership, I can safely say this motor was probably dirty. Not horrible, but dirty enough.
On that particular oil change, it came out very dark. After adding the solution and running the vehicle for a little over ten minutes at various rpms, it came out dark again when drained.
The time the solution is in the crankcase will determine whether these deposits will plug up an oil passage or pump screen, because the sludge cant hold up very long under strong solution before its disolved. It's like a hard candy. It will go from a solid to liquid as your enzymes break it down, but it takes a little while. By the second time I used this process twice, my oil pressure actually dropped slightly, indicating less restriction.
I now have over 280,000 km and I use this process to eliminate any trace of contamination after draining my old oil. I started doing it because I didn't like the idea of doing half the job. Why would I stop the motor and drain the oil, only to leave all the old contaminated oil inside the passages, on bearings, and coating the crankcase?
My clean oil is supposed to transfer heat, suspend contaminates, and remain viscous. Draining and refilling immediately dillutes fresh oil with contaminates. At the very least i would still flush the engine out with a couple liters of bulk oil. By the way, if I ever experiance engine failure due to blocked oil passages or a pump screen I will reflect on your advice and then kick myself in the ass. I dont claim to know everything, but I do know there is always a proper way to do things. As I said, dilution and exposer time are what makes this work well.
And GOOD BUY ENGINE.
But same thing applies to any cleaner.
Dump it in and sludge breaks lose and winds up in the oil pump or screen or oil pump passages.
I suppose, based on what your saying, a really dirty engine will have this problem. Concider though the method in which this flush is carried out.
430 ml to 2 liters of fresh oil. This is a strong dilution. The sludge yur talking about really wouldnt hold up against this mixture. surely you'd expect that if a detergent can break down deposits enough to free them, it must then have the ability to break them down further. Thats were dilution and exposure time come into play.
What your saying is obviously valid without question; what I'm saying is that the method makes a difference. I first attempted this process with a 260,000 kilometer engine. Based on its condition and previous ownership, I can safely say this motor was probably dirty. Not horrible, but dirty enough.
On that particular oil change, it came out very dark. After adding the solution and running the vehicle for a little over ten minutes at various rpms, it came out dark again when drained.
The time the solution is in the crankcase will determine whether these deposits will plug up an oil passage or pump screen, because the sludge cant hold up very long under strong solution before its disolved. It's like a hard candy. It will go from a solid to liquid as your enzymes break it down, but it takes a little while. By the second time I used this process twice, my oil pressure actually dropped slightly, indicating less restriction.
I now have over 280,000 km and I use this process to eliminate any trace of contamination after draining my old oil. I started doing it because I didn't like the idea of doing half the job. Why would I stop the motor and drain the oil, only to leave all the old contaminated oil inside the passages, on bearings, and coating the crankcase?
My clean oil is supposed to transfer heat, suspend contaminates, and remain viscous. Draining and refilling immediately dillutes fresh oil with contaminates. At the very least i would still flush the engine out with a couple liters of bulk oil. By the way, if I ever experiance engine failure due to blocked oil passages or a pump screen I will reflect on your advice and then kick myself in the ass. I dont claim to know everything, but I do know there is always a proper way to do things. As I said, dilution and exposer time are what makes this work well.
bm2boats
12-18-2006, 06:16 PM
OK Ian, I'll give it a shot. But if your wrong, I'll run you over!LOL LOL LOL!!!!
Hey, a cleaner engine may help with the fuel Mileage. Is there any cleaner that is better? Like Gunk or STP???
Hey, a cleaner engine may help with the fuel Mileage. Is there any cleaner that is better? Like Gunk or STP???
Ian Szgatti
12-18-2006, 10:03 PM
OK Ian, I'll give it a shot. But if your wrong, I'll run you over!LOL LOL LOL!!!!
Hey, a cleaner engine may help with the fuel Mileage. Is there any cleaner that is better? Like Gunk or STP???
it's not brand so much as ingriedients.
API, SAE or ASTM Laboratory or Field (vehicle) Engine Tests
these are some of the lables attatched to any products that will benifit you and not waste your money. These tests are expensive, so cheap useless product manufacturers wouldn't bother with these tests. Remember that you get what you pay for as well. Expensive products are expensive because they cost alot to make.
In all honesty though, I've used brake cleaner. 2 liters buld oil mixed in a container with a whole can of brake cleaner. I know it blasts and disolves sludge because I use it everyday at the shop I work in.
If you do this, use an oil additive after you put in your fresh oil to nuetralize the acids from the parts cleaner. If you prefer a specific brand, try anything with certified testing. I haven't tested those major brands in any experimental process, but I should. I do know that brake parts cleaner blasts the hell out of anything you spray it on!
Hey, a cleaner engine may help with the fuel Mileage. Is there any cleaner that is better? Like Gunk or STP???
it's not brand so much as ingriedients.
API, SAE or ASTM Laboratory or Field (vehicle) Engine Tests
these are some of the lables attatched to any products that will benifit you and not waste your money. These tests are expensive, so cheap useless product manufacturers wouldn't bother with these tests. Remember that you get what you pay for as well. Expensive products are expensive because they cost alot to make.
In all honesty though, I've used brake cleaner. 2 liters buld oil mixed in a container with a whole can of brake cleaner. I know it blasts and disolves sludge because I use it everyday at the shop I work in.
If you do this, use an oil additive after you put in your fresh oil to nuetralize the acids from the parts cleaner. If you prefer a specific brand, try anything with certified testing. I haven't tested those major brands in any experimental process, but I should. I do know that brake parts cleaner blasts the hell out of anything you spray it on!
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