engine won't turn over

My 1995 Dodge Grand Caravan won't start. There's power to the radio, heater, PW, PL, etc. When we turn the key, nothing happens and then a few seconds later it makes a horrible groaning noise. It has a new battery and the starter has been tested. We also replaced the fuel filter today. My husband thinks it may be the fuel pump. Any other suggestions? It's a 3.8L.

The failure of your starter to crank when you turn the key is caused by a lack of electrical power to the starter. There are four electrical switches that all must turn on together to get the starter to engage. These are the "ignition switch", the "starter relay", the "neutral safety switch" and the "starter solenoid". A failure of any one of these will keep the starter from cranking. Look at these components first.

When you say that the starter has been tested, does this mean you took it out, hooked a battery up to it directly, applied electric power to the solenoid lead and is ran? That is what I am assuming. Please correct me if I am wrong. A test like I described (better known as a bench test) will confirm a good starter.

Regarding the fuel pump, the only way to properly diagnose any problem with the fuel pump is to put a fuel pressure test gauge on the fuel rail and measure the fuel pressure. Otherwise, you will replace the fuel pump needlessly and throw out good money without solving the problem.

Let us know if you have any questions or comments.

You would only consider the fuel pump if the engine cranks/turns over when you turned the key but did not start. Since your engine is not cranking, the fuel pump (and entire fuel system) is off the culprit list.

From your statement "nothing happens" I'm taking that to mean you don't even hear the starter solenoid or starter relay click. Groaning?

Everything KManiac has to say is right on the mark - as usual. The only thing I'm adding is specifics on t-shooting. Considering you have a good battery and starter I would remove the starter relay and check for 12 vdc on two of the four contacts in the socket. At contact #30 in the socket you should have a constant 12vdc even with the key off. This is the voltage waiting to go to the starter. Next, turn the key to start and check for 12vdc at contact #86 in the socket. If it's there that indicates the voltage path from the battery through the ignition switch, neutral start switch and to the relay is good. That leaves the starter relay as the most likely source of your headaches. If you're missing the voltage look towards the neutral safety switch.

You could always try tapping on the starter relay while cranking or reseating it before you change it. I don't recall for sure but there may be an identical relay on the same panel you could swap with. The starter relay is on the relay/fuse panel under the hood. Try jiggling the gear shifter. The neutral safety switch is in it's linkage on the transmission.

I'm picturing your husband slaving away trying to fix your van and not having any luck. You are seeing him getting more and more frustrated so you jumped on the forum to get him some help like any loving wife would. Let him know I (and safe to say most of us) have been in his spot more often than I (we) want to admit. Oh and he should be thanking his lucky stars he's got you for a wife. Keep in touch. Cheers!

Thanks for the responses. I read them to my husband and seems like they made sense. Unfortunately my van is at my work, not at home.

One of the first things he did was tap on the starter while I turned the key. Obviously that didn't work. He then removed it and took it to a local auto supply store to be tested. They said it's fine.

There are no clicking noises when I turn the key. However the groaning sound is a sound we've never heard before. After the groan there's a release of pressure. It reminds me of an old man after a big Thanksgiving dinner. It's very difficult to describe-it's not clanking or grinding, it really sounds like a groan.

I've had problems the past few months that it usually takes more than one turn to start the engine but it's always started.

There are a lot of other little things going wrong but overall it's been a good vehicle--the radio doesn't play if the car is cold (we live in Wisconsin so that's hard to avoid); the driver's door latch broke so even though the door closes tight, the sensor says it's still open and the lights stay on; the cup holder keeps falling out; my anti-lock brake light is on but the mechanic says nothing is wrong. Tell that to the van when my foot suddenly goes to the floor when I push on the brakes. OK, it doesn't sound like such a good vehicle when I list all of that but it really is.

Again, thank you.

The most common cause of an starter not working when you turn the key, yet the starter bench tests "good", is a broken or misadjusted "neutral safety switch". Now, I am assuming you have an automatic transmission. This electrical switch is connected to the transmission linkage and allows the starter to operate only when the transmission selector is in Park (P) or Neutral (N). Try starting the van with the transmission selector in Park and then again in Neutral. If still no starter either way, hold the key in the start position with one hand, while moving the transmission selector back and forth between Reverse (R) and Drive (D). If still no starter, find the switch, disconnect the two wires and put a jumper wire between the two connections. If it still doesn't start, the problem is elsewhere, look first at the starter relay and then the ignition switch.

Now, if you have a manual transmission, the neutral safety switch is connected to the clutch pedal, forcing you to push in the clutch before the starter operates. To test one of these, hold the key in start position while pushing and releasing the clutch (transmission in neutral). If still no start, disconnect the switch and jumper.

Regarding the groaning sound, that could be from your "Antilock Brake System" (ABS). The groaning may be the ABS system running through its automatic startup self-checks, a sound usually covered up by a running engine.

Regarding the brakes, the ABS system is computerized and only works during a panic stop, when one or more wheel sensors detect a locked up wheel. Operation of the ABS system is not required for normal braking and does not operate during normal braking. It patiently waits during all normal brake operation and begins to work only when a wheel sensor detects a wheel not spinning. The ABS light stays on because the ABS computer has detected a malfunction during its self diagnosis tests. A mechanic with a computer scanner (and knows how to use it) can read the codes in the ABS computer and determine what the problem is. At this point, with your ABS light on continuously, your ABS system is not functioning. This means that should you have a panic stop, your wheels will lock up and stay locked until you lift up on the brake pedal, just like a normal brake system without ABS. The most common cause of ABS malfunction are dirty or broken wheel sensors, a more common problem in your part of the United States. The wheel sensors consist of a magnetic pick up and a steel ring on each axle that looks like a gear. Have your husband pull each wheel and make sure the sensors are clean, present and mounted properly.

Now, you mentioned that your brake pedal went to the floor once when pushed. This is caused either by a leak in the hydraulic system or a bad master cylinder. Have your husband look for hydraulic leaks at each wheel cylinder (drum brakes) and each caliper (disc brakes) when he has the wheels off checking the ABS sensors. If no leaks are found and the fluid level does not drop in the master cylinder, then seals inside the master cylinder may be failing and the master cylinder should be replaced.

Anyway, run with this for now and let us know if you have any questions or comments.

My 1995 Dodge Grand Caravan won't start. There's power to the radio, heater, PW, PL, etc. When we turn the key, nothing happens and then a few seconds later it makes a horrible groaning noise. It has a new battery and the starter has been tested. We also replaced the fuel filter today. My husband thinks it may be the fuel pump. Any other suggestions? It's a 3.8L.

My 1997 Grand Caravan has acted similarly the past few months, we took it into the dealership and they found that a recall they had done on the fuel rail in 2002 needed to be redone. Even if you have had this recall already you may need to have it rechecked.