Continuous Warping Rotors!!!!

I have baught a few pairs of rotors for my 97 taurus. I drive normally (sometimes needing to break hard form other jerks on the road :screwy: ). I have had them turned (which makes them more easily warped). I hear that since this is a chronic thing for my car that I should have the calipers checked out. I really don't want to take it to a mechanic for an inspection. I hear that I might want to get new brake pads? I got ceramic pads about 30,000 miles ago. They still have plenty left on them. I am thinking about getting these brembo sport slotted rotors or drilled (but i hear the drilled ar not as good) that are supposed to be great under a lot of heat. Should I invest a lot in great rotors? Or will that not really fix the problem? I REALLY appriciate your help!

Brake rotors warp because the temper in one area of the rotor is different then the rest of the rotor. When subjected to thermal stress (or mechanical stress from unevenly or over-tightened lug nuts) the rotor warps. Turning or truing the rotor will alleviate warps that exist when the rotor is cold, but will not solve the problem when hot, the uneven temper still exists within the substrate. The only permanent solution is to replace the rotor. The manufacturing cost of brake rotors is mainly related to the length of the cool down time during the casting process. Cheap rotors are removed from the sand molds too soon and generally develop uneven temper. Expensive rotors are left overnight to cool in the molds, allowing them to temper very evenly. This extra time in the molds eats up the foundry's production capacity, so the parts are more expensive.

How do you know if you're getting good rotors? That's a tough one. Several aftermarket rotors are available for the SHO, the SHO Shop and Donelson Motorsports come to mind, these guys have better quality rotors that are available cross-drilled or not, Donelson claims that theirs are preheated. Preheating, performed properly, will anneal-out the uneven temper in the casting.

For Pete's sake, don't let the garage jockeys set your lug nut torque with an air wrench! Request that they hand torque, watch them like a hawk, if they comply, hand the technician a $5 tip, he's done you a nice favor. If they balk at your request or look at you like you've got an arm growing out of your ear, take the car somewhere else. The preferred hand method is called stage torquing; first to 60 or 70 ft-lbs, then to the final torque of 90 to 100 ft-lbs. According to Ford, those new-fangled torque sticks (ACCUTORQ tool, 100 ft-lb) are OK as well per TSB 95-6-4.

Thanks. I have replaced the rotors myself. When I tighten the nuts, I use a T or X shaped wrench used for tires. I tighten them as much as I can and go around about 2 times so that they are applyig equal pressure. Am I doing that wrong?:nono:

Great info about the lug nuts. Looks like I'll be buying a torque wrench :p

This is right out of a factory 97 Taurus manual.

Lug Nut Torque Requirement

Note:
Do not use power tools. Use a torque wrench.

All lug nuts (1012) must be tightened to 115-142 N-m (85-104 lb-ft).

I feel that doing it by hand without a torque wrench is even worse then using power tools to get even torque.
Some people tighten the lugs like crazy in fear of the wheel falling off down the road.

Thanks. I have replaced the rotors myself. When I tighten the nuts, I use a T or X shaped wrench used for tires. I tighten them as much as I can and go around about 2 times so that they are applyig equal pressure. Am I doing that wrong?:nono:

This is right out of a factory 97 Taurus manual.
Note:
Do not use power tools. Use a torque wrench.
What section is that under? Ours does not seem to say that. It just says tighten to 85-105.

Also, you want to tighten the lugnuts in a "star" pattern, essentially skipping every other lugnut and making two revolutions to get all 5 lugnuts (I'm not sure that makes much sense typed out). A torque wrench is a must, as well as making sure the mating surfaces of the hub and rotor are clean, as well as the surfaces between the rotor and wheel.

Rust will form in the vents of the rotors, and when the wheel is not holding the rotor tight to the hub, pieces of that rust (or other debris) can lodge between the hub and rotor and cause severe vibration and warping, the serverity which will be determined by the size of the debris.

If you have allow wheels, you will want to recheck the torque after 50 miles or so from the time you put the wheels on.

-Rod

:banghead: I feel like an idiot! I have a manual and never thought to look. I don't have a torque wrench and I guess I was too cheap to get one. I guess that I will have to learn from my stouborness and get one. Should I still get brembo slotted rotors or still try regular oem replacment rotors?

It was under wheels and tires on my 97 cd.

What section is that under? Ours does not seem to say that. It just says tighten to 85-105.

There is no way to make a good call when it comes to rotors, it's hit or miss. Ebay has good deals on torque wrenches.

:banghead: I feel like an idiot! I have a manual and never thought to look. I don't have a torque wrench and I guess I was too cheap to get one. I guess that I will have to learn from my stouborness and get one. Should I still get brembo slotted rotors or still try regular oem replacment rotors?

Even the Cheap 1/2 Drive Torque wrenches at a place like Walmart are good enough for this job. I bought an 18 dollar one and took it to a calibration lab I used to work for and we checked it out. At 104lbs it was only off 1lb.

There has been thousands of conversations concerning the rotors for these cars at another forum (not to be mentioned here) and a lot of people have had good experience with the 1 year warranty rotors at AZ.
They are 21.00 for the 97 and up SHO and 2001 and up Taurus/Sable that have the bigger brakes and even cheaper for pre 96 SHO and 2000 and earlier Taurus/Sable
I used them last time and I have 50K on them now and they worked out pretty well. I am getting ready to do them again as my pads are about gone.


Mike
:smokin:

I buy the cheap rotors, never had any issues with them... places like
az or aap.. used to be able to buy online and save, unless free ship is offered, not worth it on standard parts..

Even the Cheap 1/2 Drive Torque wrenches at a place like Walmart are good enough for this job. I bought an 18 dollar one
Good point about not needing a really good torque wrench, but why go to Walmart when for only two dollars more you can get a Craftsman at Sears with a lifetime warranty on it? :)

good experience with the 1 year warranty rotors at AZ.
Thanks for this :) Will go there next time we need rotors.

Good point about not needing a really good torque wrench, but why go to Walmart when for only two dollars more you can get a Craftsman at Sears with a lifetime warranty on it? :)


Thanks for this :) Will go there next time we need rotors.

My point about the wally world one was only that it doesnt need to be a high end wrench for this procedure. I have two 1/4", 1 3/8" and 1/2" Snap On ones that i use for critical stuff.

I have 5 vehicles and it seems the wheels are always off one of them, so I made a place to hang the cheap and I also bought an extension and the correct sockets to fit my different vehicles. That way I don't have to open up my tool box when I am just rotating tires and stuff.

I also didnt know Craftsman ones were that cheap but if they are I would have done that instead.

Mike
:smokin:

I also didnt know Craftsman ones were that cheap
Either did I until a few days ago :p The beam style costs between 21.00 and 29.00. The one for 29.00 lokks VERY nice. I will probably pick one up today or tomorrow and start getting in a habit of using it for my lug nuts :)

It might not be warped rotors but surface deposits on the rotors.

I'm surprised I don't have warped rotors from the lugnuts or broken studs ... I tend to severely over tighten them.

The super hard - long lasting linings are tough on rotors.

Sounds like I will go ahead and get regular rotors. I don't like getting them on ebay because they get you with the S&H. MAke sure its a reasonable price because I have seen some charge up to $40 s-tag for s&h and the rotors are only like $40 a pair. I will most likely go to a place called harbour freight tools for the torque wrench. They are real cheap and ok quality for tools. If you have a store near you, I would use it a lot for tools that you will use occasionally.

Craftsman torque wrenches only have a 90 day to a 1 year warranty depending on the model. If you want a lifetime warranty check out the husky brand at home depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100058237


Good point about not needing a really good torque wrench, but why go to Walmart when for only two dollars more you can get a Craftsman at Sears with a lifetime warranty on it? :)


Thanks for this :) Will go there next time we need rotors.

Craftsman torque wrenches only have a 90 day to a 1 year warranty
Nope, they have lifetime. See where it says "Guaranteed Forever" in the screenshot below :)

http://www.webdressing.com/pics/wrench.jpg

That's funny, there cheapest ones have a lifetime warranty.

model #44595, 44597 = 90days, model #34187, 810778, 810757 = 2 years,

With that said, the $30 beam torque wrench is just fine for lug nuts.



Nope, they have lifetime. See where it says "Guaranteed Forever" in the screenshot below :)

http://www.webdressing.com/pics/wrench.jpg

In all my years of bringing back tools to Sears not one person has ever asked to see a receipt, so those others might have a lifetime warranty too :p

"When subjected to thermal stress (or mechanical stress from unevenly or OVER-TIGHTENED lug nuts) the rotor warps." Reekor is on the money there.

Tire shops rarely use a torque attachment on the air gun socket, let along a torque wrench and every time I get tires or flat fixed I double check the nuts with my beam torque wrench and EVERY TIME the torque is off. Two guys put the tires on each side and when I check one side 80 ft lbs and the other 120 ft lbs. Heck, the brand new tires had 45 lbs of air in them, now where's the hard part there? A beam torque wrench not all that expensive and takes all the guess work out of tightening nuts and bolts.

Another rotor warper is rotors being hot then you drive through cold water,

Two guys put the tires on each side and when I check one side 80 ft lbs and the other 120 ft lbs.
I was thinking about air guns the other day and even the tire shops and the dealerships use them to put tires on. That's why I was so surprised to read about needing a torque wrench. I am very glad that I read this thread, and from now on I'll always watch how my lug nuts are put on :)

I buy the cheap rotors, never had any issues with them... places like
az or aap.. used to be able to buy online and save, unless free ship is offered, not worth it on standard parts..

I agree. I have replaced my 97 Taurus rotors once because of brake pad material depositing on the rotor face and causing the shudder when the material heats up. A Hyundai of mine had rotors so warped that I could barely get them over the lugs. A case of overtightening to the extreme.

I used some inexpensive rotors ($20? each) for the Taurus and ran them for at least 40K miles and they are still working fine. I do my own brakes and only hand-tighten with my lug wrench so I can get them off myself.

For my cars that have alloy wheels (not my Taurus G) I use Raybestos pads and rotors that are supposedly designed for lower dust. They of course cost more.

When I purchase new tires at my local Pep Boys here in Maryland they use Tork Stix for the final adjustment. They even have posters on the wall in the garage area concerning their use.

"When I purchase new tires at my local Pep Boys here in Maryland they use Tork Stix for the final adjustment. They even have posters on the wall in the garage area concerning their use."

Hip-Hip-Hoorah for Pep Boys! Many years ago I taught my wife how to change a tire and when I started to loosen the lugs I had one of those curved tire irons and it was everything I could put to it with my 200 lbs to break them loose. It made me mad because I could see her 140 lbs broke down on the road KNOWING how to change a tire but can't bust the lug nuts loose because of some el-stupido at the tire shop where I had them rotated. I promptly called that shop and gave the manager a piece of my mind and he apoligized and I said you damn well better check every car that goes though your place. How many tire shops just, "do it right"? In my opinion, very, very, very few. That's the same shop that a month ago put four new tires on my Tusus and put 45 lbs of air in all of them. DUH-DUH-DUH-freakin' DUH DUMMIES!:newburn:

From then on I check them with my torque wrench and keep a X type tire tool in the trunk, pneumatic jack and piece of plywood for the jack to sit on because so much sand around here soft as can be.

One more hip-hip-horrah for Pep Boys!

Don't any of these places have any kind of certification for their mechanics? :eek: They should be setting the standard and not doing things that common sense tells you is wrong. 45 lbs of air pressure in a tire is a bit extreme. I don't even think my talking air gauge knows how to say "forty-five" :p