B16's and ZC's
Skeme1
09-12-2002, 07:45 AM
ive been reading a whole bunch of posts regarding engine comparisons. i read that ZC's are recommended to be rebuilt due to the fact that its an older engine. aren't first gen B16's just as old? but i never hear anything about b16's and having them being rebuilt. all i hear is just to get them over any other swap.
whats the deal?
whats the deal?
mellowboy
09-12-2002, 11:25 AM
Well if your plannin on rebuildin it in the future why does it matter? I didn't rebuild mine and its strong as hell. Either way i'm gonna tear it apart in winter. :)
Setanta
09-13-2002, 01:37 AM
ZC first came out in the '94 Civic/CRX Si. B16A first came out in the '90 Civic/CRX SiR and '90 Integra XSi. There's a 6 year (minimum) difference in age and the technology/design is really even further apart.
DRCustom
09-13-2002, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Setanta
ZC first came out in the '94 Civic/CRX Si. B16A first came out in the '90 Civic/CRX SiR and '90 Integra XSi. There's a 6 year (minimum) difference in age and the technology/design is really even further apart.
totally wrong, zc's came about waaaaaay before that, I don't even think they made them in 94.
Age is not an issue, but the b16 is a far better engine all around, unless you want to turbo, and build the hell out of the zc.
The b16 is an amazing engine (the second gen is better). far superior to the zc. but it's made to do one thing (provide turbo power from a non turbo engine), and it does it extremely well. Asking any more of it is very difficult.
the zc engine is in a completely different class, and is only worth comparing when it's built and turbo'd.
a well built, heavily boosted zc will easily spank any b16 (and lots of other engines) though (the zc will cost more in that situation), but from the start, a b16 is undeniably a better engine.
ZC first came out in the '94 Civic/CRX Si. B16A first came out in the '90 Civic/CRX SiR and '90 Integra XSi. There's a 6 year (minimum) difference in age and the technology/design is really even further apart.
totally wrong, zc's came about waaaaaay before that, I don't even think they made them in 94.
Age is not an issue, but the b16 is a far better engine all around, unless you want to turbo, and build the hell out of the zc.
The b16 is an amazing engine (the second gen is better). far superior to the zc. but it's made to do one thing (provide turbo power from a non turbo engine), and it does it extremely well. Asking any more of it is very difficult.
the zc engine is in a completely different class, and is only worth comparing when it's built and turbo'd.
a well built, heavily boosted zc will easily spank any b16 (and lots of other engines) though (the zc will cost more in that situation), but from the start, a b16 is undeniably a better engine.
bracer
09-13-2002, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by DRCustom
totally wrong, zc's came about waaaaaay before that, I don't even think they made them in 94.
He meant '84 ;)
totally wrong, zc's came about waaaaaay before that, I don't even think they made them in 94.
He meant '84 ;)
SiZ
09-13-2002, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by DRCustom
a well built, heavily boosted zc will easily spank any b16 (and lots of other engines)
I think what you mean is a built, boosted ZC will spank modded B16s.. To go as far as saying ANY B16 is rediculous. There are NA B16s out there that would spank most any boosted ZCs. The beauty of the B16 is compatability with other B series parts. Got a block? WABAM! You've got a B20/VTEC, or an LSVTEC, GSR block, Type-R block, blah blah blah. Boosted B16s? They power some of the fastest Hondas in the world. Blown B16s are also scary fast. You can supercharge a ZC too, sure. But the aftermarket support out there is mostly for B series motors.
Personally, I've had a D15A in my car, a ZC, and a B16A. Needless to say, the B16 is king in my mind. The D15 is a no brainer, it was slow as shit with little/no hopes of ever getting any faster. The ZC was nice, but I want 13 all motor on street tires and I had a helluva time even finding cams for the damn thing, let alone valve springs and retainers, etc. Turbo was on my mind for that thing for a long time, but with much talk to Jeff Frank (he started the site www.homemadeturbo.com) when he first started boosting ZCs, I realized that even doing that was going to be very expensive and pretty iffy at the same time. So I opted for the B16 swap and needless to say I'm very happy. The car is fast now, I love the way it is.. The engine also seems to handle the high revs so much nicer and smoother than the ZC it seems. Plus, parts are everywhere for it.. For a couple hundred bucks I'm going to pick up an LS block some time this winter, some used Type-R cams, and put some SiR pistons and ARP rod bolts and make myself a little LSVTEC. :) (with the help of a much experienced friend) So hopefully with a little work I'll be in the 13s NA.
Eh.. Thats why I have a B16 and not a ZC.
a well built, heavily boosted zc will easily spank any b16 (and lots of other engines)
I think what you mean is a built, boosted ZC will spank modded B16s.. To go as far as saying ANY B16 is rediculous. There are NA B16s out there that would spank most any boosted ZCs. The beauty of the B16 is compatability with other B series parts. Got a block? WABAM! You've got a B20/VTEC, or an LSVTEC, GSR block, Type-R block, blah blah blah. Boosted B16s? They power some of the fastest Hondas in the world. Blown B16s are also scary fast. You can supercharge a ZC too, sure. But the aftermarket support out there is mostly for B series motors.
Personally, I've had a D15A in my car, a ZC, and a B16A. Needless to say, the B16 is king in my mind. The D15 is a no brainer, it was slow as shit with little/no hopes of ever getting any faster. The ZC was nice, but I want 13 all motor on street tires and I had a helluva time even finding cams for the damn thing, let alone valve springs and retainers, etc. Turbo was on my mind for that thing for a long time, but with much talk to Jeff Frank (he started the site www.homemadeturbo.com) when he first started boosting ZCs, I realized that even doing that was going to be very expensive and pretty iffy at the same time. So I opted for the B16 swap and needless to say I'm very happy. The car is fast now, I love the way it is.. The engine also seems to handle the high revs so much nicer and smoother than the ZC it seems. Plus, parts are everywhere for it.. For a couple hundred bucks I'm going to pick up an LS block some time this winter, some used Type-R cams, and put some SiR pistons and ARP rod bolts and make myself a little LSVTEC. :) (with the help of a much experienced friend) So hopefully with a little work I'll be in the 13s NA.
Eh.. Thats why I have a B16 and not a ZC.
sastanley
09-13-2002, 07:31 AM
I have a ZC and I can't wait to get it in. In terms of 4th gen Civics I have never driven anything stronger than my 92HP d15b2, so I don't care right now how good the b16 is. For the pupose this car will serve, the ZC will be adequate and I will love it :)
OK - the real reason I wanted to post was to say to bracer - I like the pic (b16a1) in your sig..simple, classic and original!! :cool:
Mmmmmm - ZC - I think I'll go work on it this weekend ;)
OK - the real reason I wanted to post was to say to bracer - I like the pic (b16a1) in your sig..simple, classic and original!! :cool:
Mmmmmm - ZC - I think I'll go work on it this weekend ;)
Setanta
09-13-2002, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by bracer
He meant '84 ;)
Thanks Bracer - yeah, it was a typo, I meant '84 3rd Gen JDM Si Civic/CRX :)
He meant '84 ;)
Thanks Bracer - yeah, it was a typo, I meant '84 3rd Gen JDM Si Civic/CRX :)
Setanta
09-13-2002, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by DRCustom
totally wrong, zc's came about waaaaaay before that, I don't even think they made them in 94.
Oh, and I might as well address this. Yes the ZC was still built in '94 - but was designated a D16A in our market - the ZC actually became the D16A during the 2G CRX run. In '91 - '94 it was fitted to Si Civic hatches. '94 was the last year for the ZC/D16A.
As for "a well built, heavily boosted zc will easily spank any b16 (and lots of other engines) though " - want to bet that a well built, heavily boosted B16A will spank a well built, heavily boosted ZC? :p
It's all relevant - comparing an engine with forced induction to a NA engine is just nuts. Hell, a City Turbo 2 in stock trim other than intercooler and 14psi boost will outrun a stock or mildly tweaked B16A powered EK VTiR Hatch, not to mention a VTiR 'teg with the B18C - and that's a 1300cc CVCC engine with a tiny turbo.
Compare a modded NA ZC to a modded NA B16A and you'll see a big difference. Compare the two with forced induction and the same boost and they will be closer, but the B16A was built to take more stress - guess what my money would be on longevity-wise.
totally wrong, zc's came about waaaaaay before that, I don't even think they made them in 94.
Oh, and I might as well address this. Yes the ZC was still built in '94 - but was designated a D16A in our market - the ZC actually became the D16A during the 2G CRX run. In '91 - '94 it was fitted to Si Civic hatches. '94 was the last year for the ZC/D16A.
As for "a well built, heavily boosted zc will easily spank any b16 (and lots of other engines) though " - want to bet that a well built, heavily boosted B16A will spank a well built, heavily boosted ZC? :p
It's all relevant - comparing an engine with forced induction to a NA engine is just nuts. Hell, a City Turbo 2 in stock trim other than intercooler and 14psi boost will outrun a stock or mildly tweaked B16A powered EK VTiR Hatch, not to mention a VTiR 'teg with the B18C - and that's a 1300cc CVCC engine with a tiny turbo.
Compare a modded NA ZC to a modded NA B16A and you'll see a big difference. Compare the two with forced induction and the same boost and they will be closer, but the B16A was built to take more stress - guess what my money would be on longevity-wise.
mellowboy
09-13-2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by DRCustom
The b16 is an amazing engine (the second gen is better).
I disagree on that if you're talkin about the sir2 engine.
The b16 is an amazing engine (the second gen is better).
I disagree on that if you're talkin about the sir2 engine.
EF9JDM
09-13-2002, 02:52 PM
$ for $ + options and power posiblities the B16A 1 or 2gen is the best bet for a motor in my opion......
ya ZC is okay but i feal that most people just rush into geting a motor and see the cheap price of a ZC and dont look at the biger picture here.
You gota plan out waht you want in the end and from what i have seen people sepnd on a ZC to get it fast i would never get one!
I would get B16a
or even save for the b18c or HYBRID motor like Ls or CRV vtec
if i realy was going to go turbo i would do B20 motor with LS head or just a strate LS motor and run some sick amount of bost
In my opion there are plenty of USDM motors you can get for way cheaper then a JDM motor that you can turbo and have way more $$ to spend on turbo parts. Your going to have to rebulid your motor for trubo so why spend the Extra$$$ for a motor with a few extra HP at the flywhell when you can get that power in cheaper ways when buliding for turbo???
ya ZC is okay but i feal that most people just rush into geting a motor and see the cheap price of a ZC and dont look at the biger picture here.
You gota plan out waht you want in the end and from what i have seen people sepnd on a ZC to get it fast i would never get one!
I would get B16a
or even save for the b18c or HYBRID motor like Ls or CRV vtec
if i realy was going to go turbo i would do B20 motor with LS head or just a strate LS motor and run some sick amount of bost
In my opion there are plenty of USDM motors you can get for way cheaper then a JDM motor that you can turbo and have way more $$ to spend on turbo parts. Your going to have to rebulid your motor for trubo so why spend the Extra$$$ for a motor with a few extra HP at the flywhell when you can get that power in cheaper ways when buliding for turbo???
Trinity
09-13-2002, 04:21 PM
honestly its about money, how much you wanna spend a zc you spend lik 600 bucks a b16 around 2k with parts . your choice. personally i would rather put the 2k into my d series.
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