Lamborghinis truely suck

ok we all see lambos as an exciting dream car that everybody wants but only dreams of having. stop dreaming guys. after you read this article youll feel the same way i do. its terrible, pathetic and sad. if you read closely this article makes it very very clear that $20,000 VW beetles are more properly built then the $300,000 lamborghini.

http://www.lambounfall.de/indexe.html

its ALOOT to read but it could save your life one day

Interesting read.

Site does not work. Let me say however, that you are COMPLETELY missing the point of Lamborghini.


A Lamborghini is not about being properly built, it's not about going fast, it's about a group of guys making a reality the cars they drew on thier folders and books at school. You don't buy a Lamborghini with the hopes that it'll get you to the shops in one piece, if you want that, buy a god-damn Nissan Micra or something.

Even with that said, since Audi took over, Lamborghini have started doing the quality thing pretty right as well.

shit happens.

and let's not forget that a few electrical gremlins aside, the earlier (simpler) lamborghini's were actually pretty straight forward and built like a brick.
Balboni famously rolled a LP400 (i think) countach that eventually caught fire while he was still in it and the passenger area was still "perfect", allowing him to freely kick out the windscreen to free himself.

what this does show though, is that Audi isn't doing as good a job as people might think.

I can't speak for the newer Lambos but the older Countachs were well built for the autobahn and fast as hell. I had a specially prepared '79 Camaro Z28 LM1 when I was stationed in Germany over 20 years ago. Headers, Holley Street Dominator intake manifold, true dual exhaust with no CAT convertor, MSD HEI ignition, tranny mods, and Pirelli P7 tires, etc. I was doing over 130 mph on a straight section of autobahn from Nuremburg to Munich right before Ingolstadt. I looked in my rearview mirrors and saw an object coming up on me fast. It was a white Countach that passed me like I was standing still. Talking about an adrenaline rush. :thumbsup:

I can't speak for the newer Lambos but the older Countachs were well built for the autobahn and fast as hell. I had a specially prepared '79 Camaro Z28 LM1 when I was stationed in Germany over 20 years ago. Headers, Holley Street Dominator intake manifold, true dual exhaust with no CAT convertor, MSD HEI ignition, tranny mods, and Pirelli P7 tires, etc. I was doing over 130 mph on a straight section of autobahn from Nuremburg to Munich right before Ingolstadt. I looked in my rearview mirrors and saw an object coming up on me fast. It was a white Countach that passed me like I was standing still. Talking about an adrenaline rush. :thumbsup:

An LM1? what is that?

An LM1? what is that?

The GM RPO code for the production engine at that time. It was a small block Chevy 5.7 liter/350 CID V8. Definitely no match for a Lambo but I had fun with it for 3 years on the autobahns.

An LM1? what is that?

http://69.20.110.81/images/products/manufacturer/GM/images/10067353.gif

http://69.20.110.81/images/products/manufacturer/GM/images/10067353.gif


regardless what the reason is you buy a lamborghini you pay top dollar for it. if the car is going to be built like a piece of dirt. and run like a piece of dirt why shouldnt it be dirt cheap. if i bought a lamborghini it would most definetly not be because im supporting some guys paperback dreams. its because i thought id be owning one of the finest built cars with the finest of materials and the finest of knowlege and technology but apparently NOT

if you read the last part of the page it says

if there is a missfire it stops firing in that whole cylinder bank but not fuel to that cylinder. meaning its still pumping raw fuel right in. it sets a code but if the code was to be looked up it shows nothing dangerous and often told to be ignored. if ignored shortly after the obvious happens BOOM.

i could say shit happens if maybe one of 2 of these incidents happen but the guy clearly states in his follow up that MANY MANY MORE INSTANCES HAVE HAPPENED and lamborghini REFUSES to contact him back because they know they are at fault.



if you can pay 300 grand for a car and expect it to fall apart what is the purpose in owning one??? its beyone me

thats a crock of crap im sorry

Seriously, you should probably just dream of owning a Porsche 911 Turbo.


Supercar ownership is not for you.

all cars have problems, and i'd put this down to driver error or lack of driver control. they're only making some big deal about it because it's an expensive car.

if you crashed your Focus you wouldn't make some boo hoo webiste over it.

they need to grow up, accept responsibility and shut up.

Supercar ownership is not for you.

Exactly, show me a very relaiable supercar. You are missing the point of these cars completely. Sounds like your better off with a Camery or a Civic.

It doesn't make any difference whether it is a supercar, exotic, foreign or domestic, all are susceptible to problems. The Lambo Murcielago is no exception. Here is some interesting data on US National Highway Transportation Safety Admnistration (NHTSA) recalls that may be relevant but who really knows for sure.


2003/2002 Lamborghini Murcielago Recalls

2003 LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO Recall ID from NHTSA: 03V375000
Auto Recall Date: 20031003
Vehicle Component: STEERING:COLUMN
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 245
2003 LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO Defect Summary:
CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE TORQUE APPLIED TO THE JOINT SCREW BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE STEERING COLUMN WAS NOT CERTIFIED.
Defect Consequence:
IMPROPER INSTALLATION COULD RESULT IN THE ENDANGERING OF THE STEERING FUNCTIONS.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT EVERY AFFECTED VEHICLE AND, IF NECESSARY, ADJUST THE STEERING SHAFT TO MANUFACTURING SPECIFICATIONS. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN OCTOBER 20, 2003. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT LAMBORGHINI AT 1-516-829-8694.
Notes: AUTOMOBILI LAMBORGHINI, L147.R-01.03


2002 LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO Recall ID from NHTSA: 03V375000
Auto Recall Date: 20031003
Vehicle Component: STEERING:COLUMN
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 245
2002 LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO Defect Summary:
CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE TORQUE APPLIED TO THE JOINT SCREW BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE STEERING COLUMN WAS NOT CERTIFIED.
Defect Consequence:
IMPROPER INSTALLATION COULD RESULT IN THE ENDANGERING OF THE STEERING FUNCTIONS.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT EVERY AFFECTED VEHICLE AND, IF NECESSARY, ADJUST THE STEERING SHAFT TO MANUFACTURING SPECIFICATIONS. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN OCTOBER 20, 2003. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT LAMBORGHINI AT 1-516-829-8694.
Notes: AUTOMOBILI LAMBORGHINI, L147.R-01.03


2002 LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO Recall ID from NHTSA: 02V082000
Auto Recall Date: 20020319
Vehicle Component: STEERING:WHEEL AND HANDLE BAR
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 28
2002 LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO Defect Summary:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE LOWER STEERING COLUMN SHAFT COUPLING MAY HAVE BEEN INSTALLED ONTO THE INPUT SHAFT OF THE STEERING RACK WITH TOO MUCH CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE BOTTOM OF THE COUPLING AND THE STEERING RACK INPUT SHAFT HOUSING.
Defect Consequence:
AS A RESULT, THE LOWER STEERING COLUMN SHAFT COUPLING COULD SEPARATE FROM THE INPUT SHAFT OF THE STEERING RACK, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL ADJUST, IF NECESSARY, THE CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE LOWER STEERING COLUMN SHAFT COUPLING AND THE STEERING RACK INPUT SHAFT HOUSING, AND RE-TIGHTEN THE COUPLING LOCKING BOLT. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN APRIL 1, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT LAMBORGHINI AT 1-781-788-0600.
Notes: AUTOMOBILI LAMBORGHINI,

if the car is going to be built like a piece of dirt. and run like a piece of dirt why shouldnt it be dirt cheap.

Dem's fightin words

Dem's fightin words


ok so i may have a few wrong points. but if a car capable of running 200mph shouldnt it be built with better quality then the materials found in a volkswagon beetle whos not capable of more then 105.

all im saying is for the price you pay for a lambo, ferrari, Mclaren, saleem, bugatti, rolls royce and so on. id just EXPECT more. you can obviously get the exact same thing out of a new vette, or RT-8 charger pretty much what you pay for is the name. but i guess thats how the world revolves. nike shoes are no better then walmart IN MOST CASES but they are 100 bucks more.

Like I said, you don't understand supercars.


They're not for you.


Go buy a Porsche.

Like I said, you don't understand supercars.


They're not for you.


Go buy a Porsche.


then since you seem know so much about them and i seem to be missing the point. why dont you enlighten me. seeing as your an AF counselor.

all im saying is for the price you pay for a lambo, ferrari, Mclaren, saleem, bugatti, rolls royce and so on. id just EXPECT more. you can obviously get the exact same thing out of a new vette, or RT-8 charger pretty much what you pay for is the name. but i guess thats how the world revolves. nike shoes are no better then walmart IN MOST CASES but they are 100 bucks more.

so, was this just another thread started with the intention of saying that american cars are better cos they're cheaper and that the more expensive european cars aren't worth the money?

so, was this just another thread started with the intention of saying that american cars are better cos they're cheaper and that the more expensive european cars aren't worth the money?

nope i belive the topic name is LAMBORGHINIS TRUELY SUCK. but its turned into more of a thread as to why im an idiot. i guess seing your a moderator you could delete it if you want its not even about the topic anymore

It never ends...

if you haven't driven a lamborghini or atleast seen one, then you can't talk. Same goes for the vette and/or viper. He's questioning the price of supercars, we're questioning the quality of cheaper cars. It's an interesting queston because the new american sports cars are breaking ground in the supercar world.

tell me, what never ends?
also, please tell me what new ground american supercars are breaking?

tell me, what never ends?
also, please tell me what new ground american supercars are breaking?

It just seems that there's so much fighting on the subject that facts get twisted and lost. I like the corvette, you like the lambo, someone else likes a skyline and there's so much bias together that you'll forget what you're arguing about. Are we saying that supercars are too much money or are we saying the corvette should be built more like a lamborghini? Or are we saying that a lamborghini should be built like the corvette? What are we saying here?

The new corvette, viper, GT and back to the saleen, yeah that saleen. They're handling better then ever(historically) and gaining some serious power upgrades from factory(500-600hp), and whether this was intentional or not, they're competing with the supercar category, the italian sport cars and the german speed monsters.

I think the contraversy is over where exactly all the money goes to, power or safety? design or brand names?

and where have I been less than objective?

and where have I been less than objective?

I didn't say it was your fault, before my post you only posted once. Jimster is suggesting that gp doesn't understand supercars, while gp is saying that supercars are too expensive, these are just theories.

I agree that we bypassed the original question, and the answer was that all cars could have recalls, none are exempt (invincible) no matter how much money you spend on them. Then gp started saying that Lambos don't deserve such a high sticker price and that it should include more or be cheaper. Lamorghinis already have A LOT to offer to the driver, but it's not a Mercedes Benz S-Class where the car can drive itself. Is this why he's all bent out of shape?
Maybe, but now I myself am interested in why a brand new Z06 is cheaper then a Lambo. They're both fast but what's in the Lambo that isn't in the Z06?

(thanks for ignoring my whole previous post)

There's a reason the Lambo is more expensive than a Z06. Firstly, how many man hours go into a Z06? Not a lot, the Lamborghini is completely handbuilt and doesn't skimp on materials the way the Z06 does, secondly there are probably as many Z06's built in a month as there are Lamborghinis built in a year, lower volumes = higher prices to cover costs. Then you have the US specific stuffs, such as tarriffs and shipping.

Then there's the fact that the Lamborghini simply can sell a car for $150,000, Chevrolet would get laughed out of business if they tried the same thing.


You're effectively saying, why get a 5 course meal specially cooked by Gordon Ramsay when you can go to a Texas steak house?

A Supercar is a purchase of the heart, not the head, you buy a supercar because that particular one grabs your heart, the buyer of an F430 does not usually test drive a Gallardo (Well they do, but not with a view to buy one, usually a view to thrash someone elses car), compare the bootspace etc and vice versa like the buyer of a Camry or Accord does, they simply walk into whichever showroom stocks the car they love and put the money down and wait, simple as that.

This I learned after working with Alfa Romeos for 3 years, practicality means shit all when a car can make you weak at the knees. Something a Porsche (Except maybe the CGT) or Corvette could never do.

haha!!!

a supercar isnt a purchase of something you feel in your heart. its a purchase of "im gonna get a ton of beaver with this thing." the majority of rich dudes that have supercars, if they wreck the car, dont care one bit and just buy another one just like it. its not like the dude driving the family hand-me-down chevelle or rusty old truck that sheds a tear if it gets stolen or totalled in a wreck. Its called sentimental value lol and its what makes people keep their crappy old beater even if they are offered an outrageous amount of money for it.

Difference between the US and Italian market.


Even then you're just parroting a negative stereotype put out there by jealous sods.

(thanks for ignoring my whole previous post)

was this for me?
ok, i'll address you're previous post if you crave attention so much.

It just seems that there's so much fighting on the subject that facts get twisted and lost.
facts, by the nature of them, cannot be twisted or lost. If a fact is twisted, it is no longer fact. Certain things can be interpeted by looking at sets of facts but by the same token, anyone can look at certain facts and derive a meaning from them. This is where "real" arguments can arise. Of course, this does also imply that both parties should first look at the facts and then discuss what they see in them. If one of the parties simply doesn't know as much as the other, there is no argument or even debate. It'd be like a person talking to someone who can only say "because I said so"

I like the corvette, you like the lambo, someone else likes a skyline and there's so much bias together that you'll forget what you're arguing about.
Bias infers that a particular obect is prefered over another. If all sides are biased then all sides will provide commentary that is slanted towards their own prefered object. Like before, if all parties are of equal knowledge, then the discussion as a whole will be even and readers can see for themselves the benefits and defecits of the brands despite the bias. Once again, like before, it is only when one side cannot give as much reasoning as the others when a certain bias seems to have a greater presence.

Are we saying that supercars are too much money or are we saying the corvette should be built more like a lamborghini? Or are we saying that a lamborghini should be built like the corvette? What are we saying here?
I thought it was quite clear what was being discussed here; that being the value of Lamborghini's compared to cheaper cars.
i.e is a Lamborghini worth the asking price.
I only originally brought up the point of "cheaper US cars" because the original poster did so, hence my first post in this thread.
The questions you ask here mean have no relevance and do not relate to what is being discussed; any car can be inserted and the act of actually specifiying a car only serves to misdirect the discussion that is supposed to be focussing on one car.
Further more, anyone could ask; should a mini be built like a corvette or should a corvette be built like a mini?, thereby reducing the corvette as a comparable example, redundent and pointless, especially as a point of reference. Of course that would be unfair, which is where we bring back out old friend the Porsche 911 as comparisons. Quite simply there are very few cars that are built better than this thing; that is why it is used for comparisons for EVERY car that is even near its class/catagory. Everything from supercars like ferrari to japanese cult classics like the GT-R to performance salloons/coupes like the M3 gets compared to the 911 and most cars will lose.
To answer your badly chose rhetoric; none of the above.
A Lamborghini should be built like a 911 and if that day ever happens, everyone should be scared.

The new corvette, viper, GT and back to the saleen, yeah that saleen. They're handling better then ever(historically) and gaining some serious power upgrades from factory(500-600hp), and whether this was intentional or not, they're competing with the supercar category, the italian sport cars and the german speed monsters.
Handling better than ever but still not on par with the european counterparts. No "have you driven one" arguments here please because this is the uninamous voice of numerous magazine contributors who have driven them. That is also ignoring the simple fact that "new and improved" doesn't mean much if the previous product wasn't that good in the first place. remember that saying about polishing a turd? Of course, I am not saying that any car mentioned here is a turd, merely pointing out the flaws in the things you say and how you present your argument.
I'm also not sure what relevance 500-600 from factory has here, especially when we are talking about cars with 7+ litre engines. What relevance does 500-600 hp when the cars of the same class, no matter what country they are from are doing the same anyway?

I think the contraversy is over where exactly all the money goes to, power or safety? design or brand names?
I don't think there is any controversy.
I know where money goes into designing/building/marketing a car. On the other hand, I also know why some cars are cheaper? In the case of manufactured goods, cheaper is not always the best thing; any fool knows that. £2000 Rolex or £15 casio? Both tell the time but hey! The Casio has a whole host of other functions as well!

Oh please. All these cars handle superbly. A zo6 set records around the nurburgring and the viper can only be argued to handle better. The ford GT is almost unquestionably a better handler than both. Other than "gotta have it" factor there is no real downfall to the american market at this time. This turd polishing shit is for ricers. This isn't a damn mustang or something we are talking about here. Lets come back to reality.

but that n'ring lap time is still relative; after all, it does have more power and/or less weight than any of the 911s that it is most often compared to.
if it has more power and weigh less but doesn't set a faster time, then something really is wrong, no?

haha!!!

a supercar isnt a purchase of something you feel in your heart. its a purchase of "im gonna get a ton of beaver with this thing." the majority of rich dudes that have supercars, if they wreck the car, dont care one bit and just buy another one just like it. its not like the dude driving the family hand-me-down chevelle or rusty old truck that sheds a tear if it gets stolen or totalled in a wreck. Its called sentimental value lol and its what makes people keep their crappy old beater even if they are offered an outrageous amount of money for it.


And this is why Jimster said you do not understand. As it happens I've been a Ferrari fan since i was 10 years old and i visited Modena, ever since I've been watching every single F1 race i could both through the bad and th good years. Even now that I live in student dorms I still follow it, we do not get the channel Speed on our cable so I'm forced to sit every Sunday on the BBC website and hit F5 to refresh the webpage where they post live lap by lap updates.

Now that I'm older I come to appreciate even more proper Italian (ofcourse in particular Ferrari) cars even though I realize that something like a 911 could offer me similar performance and better reliability for a lower price. Why? Because I can appreciate even more the passion and character that those cars are built with. As Jimster said its a purchase of the heart.

So I find your implications that the only reason I want a Ferrari just to "get some beaver" very offensive and to belittle a passion I nurtured for many many years.


Yes some people will buy a Ferrari just to get chicks and its annoying for a true fan like me but its their money. Furthermore if you don't think some of the same class of people do not buy Corvettes or Vipers even Mustangs to get chicks you are indeed deluded. All image cars will attract this type and their choice will come down to their budgets. I would appreciate if you would not place all of us in the same category.

but that n'ring lap time is still relative; after all, it does have more power and/or less weight than any of the 911s that it is most often compared to.
if it has more power and weigh less but doesn't set a faster time, then something really is wrong, no?

Surely you aren't faulting the Z06 for its light weight and superior power. I agree that those are two factors that greatly effect its performance but why is that polishing a turd. It handles well, accelerates like a rocket and uses all the latest tech to be a relatively cost effective supercar. I mean buying a ferrari or even porsche or ford GT for that matter is like buying a pair of calvin klein jeans when you could just get a pair of levis that do the same job just as well. I can understand why someone would buy one of those cars (as I would love to own one) but I really question them as being much better of a car. The LS7 by the way is hand built, though I can't speak for the rest of the car.

Where is this fact that they compare everything to a 911? And since what year? this is some seriously enlightnening information. You know why I like the corvette and the gt, it's the V8, and that's the reason I'd buy one. On topgear they said they didn't like the handling of the Ford GT, comparing a Zonda and the Ferrari (you all must remember that episode) but I don't know how well those cars handle.

I'm going to start a new thread on handling, seeing as we're going offtopic in this one.

Surely you aren't faulting the Z06 for its light weight and superior power.

i'm not faulting anything;merely pointing out that there are reasons that the Z06 sets a faster lap time, the most significant of which would have to be the higher power and less weight. As I asked before, if there was a 911 that weighed the same and had the same power, do you think it would be faster or slower?

...why is that polishing a turd.
please read my previous post again.
I never said that any of the cars mentioned thus far equated to polishing a turd.

It handles well, accelerates like a rocket and uses all the latest tech to be a relatively cost effective supercar.
And again, these are things that I never disputed.
I just don't agree with people saying that cars such as ferrari or porsche aren't worth the money because the american counterparts are cheaper.

I mean buying a ferrari or even porsche or ford GT for that matter is like buying a pair of calvin klein jeans when you could just get a pair of levis that do the same job just as well.
not really comparable to cars.
jeans tend to be made of the same materials using the same techniques and in this case, brands are in a lot of cases what you pay for.
If you can't see why or how a hand made aluminium car is going to cost more than a line production grp bodied car or how production numbers affects end selling price then you simply do not know enough about the car making process.
As said before, there are reasons why some cars cost more and that really is because it costs more to make them. Put it this way, if only 500 Z06 could be made a year, how much do you think it would cost to seel one to make a profit (incidentally, are GM making a profit yet?)

The LS7 by the way is hand built, though I can't speak for the rest of the car.
to be honest, i'm not sure how hand built the modern lamborghini's are.
pre audi days, you really did have a line of 20 very skilled metal workers inspecting bodies in white for dents and scratches and meticulously, over a cigarette fixing everything they spot. This kind of man power costs time and money and the sheer amount of man hours that goes into a lamborghini was rediculous.
Put it this way, pre 996 when the 911 was still largely hand built, it took the same time to put together the dash as it does to put together the 996 models. In terms of cost, in shelling out for a hand sticthed leather interior for the M400, Noble had to add £15,000 to the cost of the car compared to the M12.
It's not just the engine that costs money to make.
Even small things like having masters made for plastic mouldings cost millions in terms of developing and tooling and re-fitting of factory lines etc etc all costs money.

Where is this fact that they compare everything to a 911? And since what year? this is some seriously enlightnening information

perhaps i need to qualify myself to help you understand more easily.
any car around the £50,000 mark that offers 4 (ahem...) seats and/or are of that performance bracket will have and most probably have been compared to a 911.
Best and most relevant examples I can think of include the BMW M3 (and by association the S4 and RS4), Skyline GT-R (and by association the NSX, Supra, 300ZX, RX-7 and GTO) Ferrari 360 (in fact, as far as I can remember, the 911 has always been the most direct rival to the Ferrari V8s), Corvettes since the C4 (with a little help from lotus) which also brings us nicely to the good old lotus Esprit, Maserati's Bora and Merak, Lamborghini Countach (most notably the LP400s and 911 turbo that were around the same time which also adds the ferrari 365 GTBB into the mix).
In terms of the cars that we are talking about here, the 911 is the benchmark.

So a person who love the speed, looks and feel to the car and have enough money to actually get a dream car like that, would walk up to the counter at Lamborghini and say: "What about safety?" When he's gonna drive it beyond 175mph?

lol

I think the Lambo will stay in everyone's dream car list for quite a long time. The author who caught the accident surely will have negative feelings about the mishap and though in the end there was no conclusive proof of the cause, I couldn't blame him one bit for feeling cheated. He did after all pay a hefty amount for his car. I still think that everybody should consider that the Lambo he was using was a second hand. He also admitted to observing some things that needed some attention with his newly purchased Lambo.

Pointing fingers, I think, will get no positive results. But hey if that makes one feel better, they can rant all they want.

I will still be drooling over Lambos though....

i'm disagree with you. Lamborghini is not a simple car and it worth the price on which you can buy it! If you want you can read something about Lamborghinis in:
http://www.car-catalog.com/sports_cars/lamborghini_gallardo.htm
Maybe you'll change your opinion!:)