Hello...and help!

Hello everyone...here is my dilemma:

90 Civic HB Si (STD 1.5L Engine)

So I'm driving home last night (12:15am) and I'm almost home and my car just shuts off, just stops...I turn the key (going 110 kph) and it starts again for a second and shuts right back off again!

So it's sitting on the side of the road now in a lot (after much grunting and pushing) and everything comes on when I turn the key, radio, dash lights, heater fan...but when I turn the key to start...it want's to start but there is almost a screeching sound and it won't start...help!

Jason

You probably have no spark. Im almost 99% sure its your ignitor in your distributor. It could also be your coil, but the fact that it started for a second and shut off points to ignitor. BTW, how can your civic be an Si if it has an STD D15B1 motor?

You probably have no spark. Im almost 99% sure its your ignitor in your distributor. It could also be your coil, but the fact that it started for a second and shut off points to ignitor. BTW, how can your civic be an Si if it has an STD D15B1 motor?

THe Civic is an Si...I originally bought it for a parts car ($325) for my STD, but the I got in a head on collision with a Dodge Ram (ouch) and my STD was out of commission. The parts car (Si) has a busted motor in it, my STD had a perfectly good working motor in it...do a swap and my Hybrid SI/STD is born. Basically it's better mileage than the Si but more power than the STD. :)

But it's nothing...in it's current state :(

Jason

PS> How would i know if it's the ignitor? Is that in the cap? Do I just change the cap if so?

PS> How would i know if it's the ignitor? Is that in the cap? Do I just change the cap if so?

Start by checking for spark, I highly doubt you'll have any. Changing the cap wont fix your ignitor. If you take your cap off, youll notice underneath the distributor assembly theres a plastic piece, above that is the ignitor.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter

definitely sounds ignition related. The check engine light doesn't STAY on when you turn the key to on? Make sure the rotor hasn't fallen off either, it's happened many times before.

definitely sounds ignition related. The check engine light doesn't STAY on when you turn the key to on? Make sure the rotor hasn't fallen off either, it's happened many times before.

I'm not sure about the check engine light, but I don't think it stays on...ummm, make sure 'what' rotor hasn't fallen off...not sure what you mean by that?

Jason

I'm not sure about the check engine light, but I don't think it stays on...ummm, make sure 'what' rotor hasn't fallen off...not sure what you mean by that?

Jason

The rotor inside your distributor. Try taking off your distributor cap, its held by 3 screws. Check to see if your rotor came loose and check the screw holding it on for looseness. IMO, if you dont have experience with ignition systems and what not, I would not recommend you trying to fix your problem. Dont attempt to diagnose or replace your ignitor if you dont know where and what the distributor rotor is. If your not sure about how to replace anything, either read up on it or take it to a mechanic.

You could take the cap off without much difficulty and you really couldn't mess anything up, the igniter however you should get outside assistance with.

Hi gang...thanks for all the replies...car is still sitting in the same place (crappy thing is it's a block from my house!)

So far I've attempted to get the old altenator out and get the re-built one in...which I haven't been able to do due to the bottom bolt being siezed...and I've been beating on it...dammit! The altenator will move freely in the mount so the bolt isn't siezed in the mount...it's seized in the alt!

Anyone know the best way to get out a siezed bolt in a car that is immobile? ;)

Speaking of bottom bolt's, well screw's in this case, the bottom screw on the distributor cap is a real bitch to get at and for some reason I haven't been able to get that out yet...all my screwdriver's are too long or the handle is too fat. #$^#%^#$%&^&*^&*

So no progress on figuring this out and with fall now here we lost the light so damn early now...

Jason

yo man wtf, same thing happened to me - im surprised no one mentioned SNAPPED TIMING BELT. without a timing belt your car won't start but everything will still turn on. check for that first, just stick your fingers under the timing belt cover and feel to see if the belt is tight or lose. good luck!

Who said anything about replacing your alternator? I doubt a charging problem is to blame for your no start. Have you even checked for fuel/ spark before moving on to randomly tackle the alternator? If you are not getting spark, why would you mess with your alternator?

I dont think going after your alternator, especially since the car is on the side of the highway (right?) was smart. If you cant get the lower dizzy cap bolt off with a screwdriver, try using a ratchet. Also, you can unplug your battery and take it out if you need more room.

yo man wtf, same thing happened to me - im surprised no one mentioned SNAPPED TIMING BELT. without a timing belt your car won't start but everything will still turn on. check for that first, just stick your fingers under the timing belt cover and feel to see if the belt is tight or lose. good luck!

He said the car restarts for a second and shuts off immediately, thats the sign of an ignition problem. He might possbily have a snapped tbelt, but if it were torn, the car wouldn't show these symptoms.

Who said anything about replacing your alternator? I doubt a charging problem is to blame for your no start. Have you even checked for fuel/ spark before moving on to randomly tackle the alternator? If you are not getting spark, why would you mess with your alternator?

I dont think going after your alternator, especially since the car is on the side of the highway (right?) was smart. If you cant get the lower dizzy cap bolt off with a screwdriver, try using a ratchet. Also, you can unplug your battery and take it out if you need more room.

No one said anything abuot changing the altenator...but the last time my car died like this...I changed the altenator and it worked. So I figured I had one that was rebuilt...why not try it.

I will try removing the battery and get at the dizzy cap...and see what's under there.

Also, I said it initially died and then restarted again for a second...I haven't been able to start it since!

I will also check the Timing Belt...but i think that may be fine...I've poked my fingers into so many places in that engine in the last two days...I can't remember.

What's the simplest way to check for spark and fuel?

First of all, open the oil cap and have someone crank the car while you look in the oil fill hole. See if the cam is turning. If it is, then your timing belt is good. If you can, however, just take off your valve cover and check the belt this way, its a lot safer than continuous cranking. DO NOT take off the dizzy cap and crank the car, this will cause your ignition coil to short out and thats no good.

If the belt is intact and has tension, then try checking for spark. The best way to do this is taking out a spark plug wire at the dizzy cap and holding the terminal close to the cap. If you see a spark flowing between the terminals, you have spark. You can also pull off a wire from the head and just ground it on something but the first method is a bit safer.

Be careful with that spark, they hurt like a BITCH! and a screwdriver handle will NOT insulate well enough, found out the hard way. Damn dirt bikes.

So...it's very cold out today...and I decided to continue to try and get the dizzy cap off bore I went back to tackling the alt. I finally got the dizzy cap off...bottom screw stripped and took out the spark plugs...well three plugs...one is siezed and I have to figure out how to get that out too:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/dizzy1.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/dizzy2.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/dizzy3.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/dizzy4.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/dizzy5.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/spark1.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/spark2.jpg

What now...what am I looking for now that I have the dizzy cap off?

Jason

Well you cant really "look" for anything. I guess you can check the screw on the rotor (the round thing sticking out of your dizzy), but it seems straight to me. Instead of looking you need to test for spark like we asked you to, that will determine if you have a problem in your distibutor. We've already told you how to check for it. You can also try turning the crank to see if your timing belt is intact.

PS: you might want to replace you cap/ rotor, they look grungy and oxidized.

No SPARK!

So my friend got home from his trip to the US with his truck and hauled my car back to my house and he determined that I have no spark...but now what.

I have changed 3 out of four spark plugs...one is seized...and I'm having trouble with it.

I have also put in a new dizzy cap and rotor.

Now....?

Jason

No SPARK!

So my friend got home from his trip to the US with his truck and hauled my car back to my house and he determined that I have no spark...but now what.

I have changed 3 out of four spark plugs...one is seized...and I'm having trouble with it.

I have also put in a new dizzy cap and rotor.

Now....?

Jason

So like i said, either your ignitor or coil in your distributor has failed. Either have a trusted mechanic test and replace either, or get a remanufactured dizzy from autozone or something. A new ignitor unit from Honda costs like 80 bucks in itself while you can get a reman dizzy for like 130 so do whatever you want.

habfan you seem like a stubborn fella! when your dealing with these kind of problems and trying to troubleshoot with guys who know what they are doing over the internet you have to listen carefully...these guys have been telling you all the right stuff to check, and how to check it and it seems like you read a word or two and just go awol with stuff, lol...its funny reading all this stuff, but if you listen, write stuff down..and maybe even buy a manual so you can look to see where all these components are located and what they look like you could save yourself a lot of aggrevation....hope you get things running again:grinyes:

btw...if your not getting any spark its not the spark plug, or the alternator...you gotta read the answers to the questions your asking cause now you have to actually pay to fix the original problem on top of all the other stuff you have paid for

habfan you seem like a stubborn fella! when your dealing with these kind of problems and trying to troubleshoot with guys who know what they are doing over the internet you have to listen carefully...these guys have been telling you all the right stuff to check, and how to check it and it seems like you read a word or two and just go awol with stuff, lol...its funny reading all this stuff, but if you listen, write stuff down..and maybe even buy a manual so you can look to see where all these components are located and what they look like you could save yourself a lot of aggrevation....hope you get things running again:grinyes:

btw...if your not getting any spark its not the spark plug, or the alternator...you gotta read the answers to the questions your asking cause now you have to actually pay to fix the original problem on top of all the other stuff you have paid for

Yah...I know...I just kinda panicked...I hate taking the bus. :P

Plus, on top of that, the other stuff needed to be done anyway....so now I'm off to check my ingitor and coil...sigh...sometimes it's frustrating driving a 16year old car.

Jason

or just get a volt meter and unplug a spark plug wire, ground one side of volt connector, connect other side to spark plug wire, and crank. see if it pings/registers. if it doesnt, get a new ignitor/try a diff dizzy. my car wouldnt start, and didnt have spark, and it was the dizzy.
Dan

or just get a volt meter and unplug a spark plug wire, ground one side of volt connector, connect other side to spark plug wire, and crank. see if it pings/registers. if it doesnt, get a new ignitor/try a diff dizzy. my car wouldnt start, and didnt have spark, and it was the dizzy.
Dan

Dude, read the post. The guy already said he doesnt have any spark. He already narrowed it down to his dizzy and he knows he needs to replace either his dizzy or ignitor/ coil.

I agree with all the quality posts. You need a few things like the service manual (Helms is best and Haynes/Chiltons are good or follow this link: http://http://www.crxpower.net/~silverkorn/manuals/crx_workshop_manual.pdf) (gotta give props to Turtlecrxsi for the manual link) and a few tools like a volt ohm meter to isolate the problem. If none of the above sounds good you could always take a chance and just buy a reman dizzy for about $250-300 or you could go to your local salvage yard and try a used dizzy (make sure there is a return policy!). But barring any physical damage, broken timing belt or missing parts (like a missing rotor screw), etc I'd try to trouble shoot it first. GL

If you had a choice...which would you replace first...ignitor or coil? i would really like your opinion before I go and spend close to $200 to replace these if I could replace just one.

Jason

Just get a remanufactured distributor and replace the whole mess. If you go to a store like Advance Auto (if you have on where you live) they come with a life-time warranty... (I got a replacement when I thought mine failed and the one I replaced was worse than the one I had. Good thing my nephew worked at the store and got me a known good one. And good thing I didn't drive it that day when it was missing I just parked it). Oh yeah, I just found that link and it still works so I bookmarked it. Everbody with a 4th gen should unless they have a Helms handy...

Just get a remanufactured distributor and replace the whole mess. If you go to a store like Advance Auto (if you have on where you live) they come with a life-time warranty... (I got a replacement when I thought mine failed and the one I replaced was worse than the one I had. Good thing my nephew worked at the store and got me a known good one. And good thing I didn't drive it that day when it was missing I just parked it). Oh yeah, I just found that link and it still works so I bookmarked it. Everbody with a 4th gen should unless they have a Helms handy...

I agree, for the cost of a coil and ignitor you are close to what a complete reman dizzy costs. I went through something similar. My coil tested good but I kept having problems even after I replaced the ignitor. I never isolated the problem but there was def something else wrong in the dizzy (defective ignitors (and several tested bad while I was at the store!!!), a TDS/crank sensor, faulty wiring etc) because I haven't had any problems since I replaced the old dizzy with a reman unit. :knocks on wood: My earlier post about troubleshooting was ment to isolate something simple (bad coil or bad connection, etc) if you are just going to start replacing parts I'd just replace the dizzy. GL

I think it might be the timing belt after all...my Dad dropped by today and he got me to crank it while I had the cap and rotor off...he said the distributor wasn't turning....so I assume that would mean the belt...correct?

Also...is this a tough fix...or am I better off having this towed to a shop and fixed?

Jason

PS> He also took a test light to any of the wire going into the distributor and they all had power going in.

So I took off the timing belt shrowd and here's what I saw:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/tbelt1.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/tbelt2.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/tbelt3.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/JasonL_album/tbelt4.jpg

The timing belt didn't just break...it vanished...it's gone...completely!? In the last picture it appears as though the spring is still in one piece so that's good...

So...is this a hard fix? Now what? (Aside from the obvious of buy a belt)

Jason

It can be time consuming but not difficult but you will need to make sure everything is at top dead center and you will need a service manual. And there is a chance you bent some of the valves and I'm not sure how to check for this unless aside pulling the cylinder head off.

Well...I don't have good news....

A friend and I started to work on changing the timing belt today...and when we got to the point of the cam pulley...it wouldn't turn...at all! We had the VC off...we had the belt cover completely off...the belt was mangled at the bottom of the bottom plastic cover...we had the crank pulley off....sigh.

So...it's pretty much a given that I have bent valves...which mean's I'm screwed.

...sigh...

Jason

All is not lost, most junkyards have several Civics to chose from so sourcing a suitable replacement head should be easy.

All is not lost, most junkyards have several Civics to chose from so sourcing a suitable replacement head should be easy.


Someone had mentioned a "mini-me",,,what would I need for that with a D15B1 block?

Jason

Since you said your civic was originally an Si, and used to have a D16A6, I recommend the SOHC ZC as a cheap replacement motor. You can use parts off your old A6 also.

http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30018

Since you said your civic was originally an Si, and used to have a D16A6, I recommend the SOHC ZC as a cheap replacement motor. You can use parts off your old A6 also.

http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30018

I do not have an A6...just the D15B1


Jason

I do not have an A6...just the D15B1


Jason

I'd just replace the whole motor. Usually when you have piston to valve contact, you end up destroying the valve reliefs on the pistons. You might have also damaged the bearings if you hit the pistons hard enough. Used D motors go anywhere from $75 to $300 for a complete motor. Try honda-tech.com classifieds. No one really wants them anymore and i've picked up good motors for $100-150 on there in the past.

I'd rather not replace the whole motor if I didn't have too...and I've looked around here...not a lot to find.

But...I have a lead on a "Y7" head from about 3 hours from me...is this a good fit for my D15B1?

What should I ask this guy...(it's a guy that is offering to sell it to me from another forum for $50)...what should I look for.

I don't have a lot of disposable cash and only want to do this once.

I know I'll need the head, the VC, both gaskets new...anything else?

Jason

I'd rather not replace the whole motor if I didn't have too...and I've looked around here...not a lot to find.

But...I have a lead on a "Y7" head from about 3 hours from me...is this a good fit for my D15B1?

What should I ask this guy...(it's a guy that is offering to sell it to me from another forum for $50)...what should I look for.

I don't have a lot of disposable cash and only want to do this once.

I know I'll need the head, the VC, both gaskets new...anything else?

Jason

Did you not listen to anything I just wrote? Ok, just replace the head w/out inspecting the bottom end, be my guest. You will spend just as much swapping the head than you will just changing out the entire motor. Not to mention, it is simpler to swap a complete motor than it is to do a head swap with the motor in the car. Good luck though Mr. Stubborn.

Bam bam is right. With your limited knowledge it would be silly to swap the head. although an engine change seems harder cause its bigger, its actually really easy to swap the entire engine..most guys that know what they are doing can do the complete swap in a day..if you start meddling with the head your gonna cut the shit outta your hands and probably end up with a car that wont run. "For the same price" you can swap the engine and have something that is already timed and somewhat reliable. Engines are so cheap for this car and they run for a long time...I'm in canada to and there are a shitload of engines available here...your looking in the wrong places if you think there is nothing around

Honestly man listen to bambam's advice. Like he said your pistons could be toast so throwing on any newer head would just be a waste of time. Plus, pulling off your head and inspecting is also a waste of time. IMO with the gas money you need to pay to drive 3 hours each way (6 hours) you could pick up a used D motor locally.

Dont tell me is worth driving 6 hours to pick up a head you don't know the true condition of (unless you have a stock crx hf and you love to drive) :iceslolan

That's the problem...I can't find an engine...I have found the head.

I'm not trying to be difficult...I'm just really frustrated as I haven't driven my car in over a month....I hate the bus.

Engine's are hard to find around here...especially cheap ones. If someone can guide me in the right direction...I would definately appreciate it as I would replace the engine before the head...for sure, but I have been unable to find one. To get one, I have only been able to find them in the US...and that's big bucks to get to me....I could get a JDM ZC from Montreal...but that's $1000 CDN...that I can't do because I don't have the cash, i'm saving for a wedding.

The only reason I'm looking at ding the head is because that is the only option that has presented itself...if someone can direct me to another option...please...I'll take it.

Jason

i hear what your saying about finding engines...you really have to know people who are into hondas to have access to that information...I know lots of places in Toronto (some more reputable that others) and I found out about them through fellow honda lovers. I am positive there are companies such as this in your area...or other provinces close by out west. I looked around on the net for you, but much like the companies I know of, they don't really advertise much. I can get a ZC engine/tranny combo for 500, or B series engine/tranny combos starting at 1000 and up...if you hunt around and ask the right people you could find something....the honda aftermarket is everywhere man. Try going to a couple of Honda dealerships, if you get the right guy working the parts desk, they will know the right places to go...just flat out ask them if they know any importers in the area...if they don't answer then your no further behind then you were before you ask...the guy in my area knows all kinds of aftermarket retailers and is cool about telling customers about them