Non-turbo turboed track time

Hey guys so I turboed my 91 non turbo talon 4 or 5 months ago, running a totally stock tsi setup with 9:1 non turbo pistons. The other day we went to the track and ran some runs. On 9 psi I pulled off 14.4s at 99mph. it was so cold out that I kept spinning through 1st and 2nd, but I thought it was still pretty good seeing a non turbo talon there was running 18s. I wanted to run way more boost seeing as I wasnt knocking at all but my boost controller was being a pain and not working right. does anybody else out there with a nonturbo to turbo setup have any good times to brag about? Im curious to see what the NT motors have in em.

Well i dont have the video link but i believe it was on youtube and there was a talon with a turbo 420A that was running 12s without the slicks. Im highly interested in turbo-ing my talon just looking for the sacraficial donor turbo car :icon16:

theres a guy near where i live who has an eclipse rs-t. he just put a 60trim in. its running pretty bad, because hes having tuning problems. he had an evo 16g before, with 550's and daily driving boost at 18. i think he easily ran 13s then, when he gets his tuning issues straightend out, i think he'll be in the 11s.

wow thats very impressive! ya the main thing holding me back now is my fuel pump, running out of juice around 6200. I plan on replacing that pretty soon. So was the rs-t a 420a or a 4g63? Ive seen the 420as do some impressive times however I would imagion the 4g63nts to be a better motor. I hate people that tell me I can't put boost to my motor! Sure these internals were never meant for boost however the 9:1 pistons were designed with the exact same material properties as the 7.8:1 pistons, only difference is higher compression. therefore just run a bit lower boost thus lowering the internal compression ratio.

he has a 4g63. and something i didnt mention before is that this guy basically rebuilt a 6 bolt and put it in his 98 eclipse. isnt the 420a an automatic? i think when i replied to this thread i thouhgt you just hda a stock 5 speed 4g63 with a turbo addded on. yeah he rebuiolt it with pistons and connecteing rodds and all that goods studff. i think

420a automatics? No, mine's manual.

no a 420a is the motor they put in the 95+ N/T DSMs. Its the same motor they put in the neon. Its pretty sad actually that theyd do that to a dsm although w/ turbo they pack some punch

ok well sorry. anyways he made it a turbo and it is quiiiick. and sorry about my last post i was pretty faded last night.

theres a guy near where i live who has an eclipse rs-t. he just put a 60trim in.

Wholly god that's a huge turbo for a RS. No wonder he's having tuning issues.

well he has a built 6-bolt. i think its alright. and when i first saw this post and oddly enough everytime after that, i was buzzing everytime, and didnt really get the question. with a clear head i tell you this... its basically just a rs shell. the motor is a built 4g63 6 bolt.

I don't get it. So he swapped the 420a out for a 4g63? Or what? Because if he did then he should make a writeup so we can finally give something to all the newbs that ask "the question"

I don't get it. So he swapped the 420a out for a 4g63? Or what? Because if he did then he should make a writeup so we can finally give something to all the newbs that ask "the question"
I agree... Those are some pretty good times on your 420a there nates6969. What else does it have? Built internals yet or is the 9:1 stock for n/t's?

theres writeups for 4g63 6bolt swaps all over.

Dude I know that, but do you not realize that the RS comes with a 420a motor which is opposite of the 4g63. And if he swapped a 4g63 into a RS, then there should be some writeup because there aren't many of those around, and there are NO writeups for it and millions of noobs that ask the question.

maybe it was a gs?

Nope, GS comes with the 420a too.

It's a Chrysler Motor used in a number of different cars. Some 95-99 Dodge Avengers, some Neon's, 95-99 Eclipse RS & GS, & Talon ESI.

The 4g63 came in all 1g cars that didn't have the 1.8. Some were turbo'd and some weren't, the only differences being a few of the internals. The 90- mid 92's were 6-bolt platforms and the mid 92- 94 were 7-bolt platforms. They also come in the 95-99 Eclipse GST & GSX and the 95-98 Talon TSI & TSI AWD.

There, a history of the DSM. So either your buddy wasted alot of money by swapping in a 4g63 into a n/t 420a, or he bought it like it is, dropped in a 6-bolt and is filling you full of bullshit.

i am SO over this thread

...Huh?

I'm not starting shit by any means, so I apologize if it sounds like that. I'm just saying that either your buddy doesn't know what he's talking about or someones not telling the truth? I don't know.

I'm confused as to what motor was in the fuckin car to begin with...but I now understand that there is a 6 bolt 4g63 sitting in a RS with a 60 trim turbo, not a 420a turboed like I had first though.

I am soooo tempted to lock this poor excuse for a thread....

I have a buddy that is running a 420a neon. That shit is bananas. On his 14b he was fucking up stock and slighly modded SRTs, on the t3/t4 50 trim hes running in there now is fast as hell. No track times yet, but he fucked up a 300 whp WRX on the highway by bus lengths. Once he gets his megasquirt working right he should be pretty deep into the 11's. That bitch is gutted to hell and built to the teeth, I wouldnt want to race it.

hes a guy from the local car spot, so i only see him once or twice a week. all i know is he was telling me its a 98, and was originally naturally aspirated. then he says its a 6bolt swap, and now its turbod. i never asked, therefore he never mentioned anything, if it was a 420a or 4g63, or whether the 4g63 was turbo or not originally. hey man im sorry bro i dont mean to freak out or anything..kinda beena rough weekend and i keep hearing that damn "head-on" commercial where that stupid chick keeps repeating the same thing.

I am soooo tempted to lock this poor excuse for a thread....

I have a buddy that is running a 420a neon. That shit is bananas. On his 14b he was fucking up stock and slighly modded SRTs, on the t3/t4 50 trim hes running in there now is fast as hell. No track times yet, but he fucked up a 300 whp WRX on the highway by bus lengths. Once he gets his megasquirt working right he should be pretty deep into the 11's. That bitch is gutted to hell and built to the teeth, I wouldnt want to race it.


hey thor what state is this in?

I'm confused as to what motor was in the fuckin car to begin with...but I now understand that there is a 6 bolt 4g63 sitting in a RS with a 60 trim turbo, not a 420a turboed like I had first though.

I'm confused as to what car he had to being with. Now we dont' know if it's an RS/GS or a turbo.

And Thor, there's really no excuse to lock the thread. There's some misunderstandings and what not, but no flame wars or anything like that. Don't bet getting all lock happy with them new powers ya got there. :)

The neon is in MN. Also, I am willing to get your buddy is full of shit, I cannot imagine anyone actually going through with a 6 bolt 4g63 into an RS/GS. How many bolts hold the flywheel on in a 420a anyway? Maybe hes confused. If he did though, tell him we need a write up.

And Thor, there's really no excuse to lock the thread. There's some misunderstandings and what not, but no flame wars or anything like that. Don't bet getting all lock happy with them new powers ya got there. :)
:lol: Just because I want to lock it doesnt mean I can. I make a concerted effort to not abuse my mod powers and locking this thread would absolutely be abuse. I just came off a long weekend with not much sleep and roughly 8 hours of some competitive ultimate frisbee. I am soo tired and unfocused right now and reading those first few posts made my head spin. Threatening to lock was a mere joke. ;)

Ya to answer the ones guys question, 100 random posts ago, im running a 4g63nt bottom end with 9:1. Im thinking about dropping some 2g pistons in tho. I read a thread the other day with a guy daily driving on 18psi on nt pistons. and some other guy running 20-22 on a fully stock 4g63nt bottom end. how this is possible, i dont know. Im aiming for mid 13s by spring at 15psi! right now my mph are around 98 at 9psi so I think its possible. I think Im going to run the nt pistons until they melt!! then build a turbo motor ready to swap in. I want to see what these pistons can do

The stock 4g63 bottom end can handle 500+ hp on pretty much any given day, so 20-22 psi isn't really anything, and it all depends on the turbo, mods, and all that good stuff. And the 2g pistons would be a very good upgrade for you, as long as you put in some 6-bolt big rods.

Dustin I think you need a nice tall glass of some good cold beer to get rid of all that stress. Maybe if we were in a really good mood, we'd send you a stripper. Of course, Brian would pay for everything. :p

wait im talking about the non turbo bottom end at 20-22psi. are you talking about the turbo bottom end holding 500+ horsepower????

Yes, but they're basically the same motor except for a few minor internal differences. And 22psi is different for every turbo. You could run 22 psi on a t25 and not be anywhere close to 22psi on a 16g. I agree, it's a pretty big number for a NT, but it's not like he's trying to pack 30 psi in there with a 50 trim on stock NT internals. He can run it that way for awhile, but it's not going to last thaaat long.

hey do you think a hks 264 intake and 272 exhaust cam would be too much for nt internals running upwards of 15psi?

No, that's a pretty common street cam for the 4g63t, but I don't know how it would react with your NT. I'm sure it would still be an upgrade though.

I think you need to do some reading before you even start to think about dumping money into that car. First off, as Garrett pointed out, PSI = pressure NOT airflow. Remember, pressure = heat and knock, airflow = power. Obviously, 25 psi on a t 25 is nothing like 25 psi on the GT35R I drove a couple weekends ago.

I dont remember, but I think the NT 1g's got the big rods too, so those should be good to 500 hp. The thing with NT stuff is for one, I dont think that headgasket is as heavy as the turbo one so if you are knocking you can kiss that bad boy good bye. I doubt those pistons are built to take the added cylinder pressure of boost. I wouldnt push them past 8-psi on those 9:1 pistons. Remember, with higher compression pistons, making power is going to happen at less pressure than on say 7.8:1 pistons (stock turbo 1g). Also, cams have nothing to do with the block internals. All cams are going to do is flow more air at lower boost levels.

Just read some actual writeups from knowledgable people and get an idea of what you are doing and conquer this in the summer or something. More than 10 PSI reguardless of the turbo is simply too much pressure IMO and any more than like 275 you might be putting those rods at risk if the 1g NT's didnt get the big rds. No offense, but judging by your posts you currently do not have the knowledge to pull of a successful NT to turbo swap.

non taken however I have fully researched this gig and I do realize pressure (amount of force exerted over a unit of area) is not the same as air flow (a measured amount of volume per unit time). Im currently a mechanical engineering student and understand the concepts of fluid flow and pressure. When I posted about the cams, my concern is its going to allow TOO much flow causing an increasing volume of air in the cylinders. With this added volume, the air will become harder to compress, increasing the final compression before combustion to higher levels. Therefore if I continue to run a 10 psi intake track pressure, this pressure will remain constant however more air will be, in theory, entering the cylinders. This increased air volume mixed with a higher piston compression ratio will skyrocket the final compression creating a extremely large force when ignited. Im concerned this will ignite unevenly causing extreme engine detonation. However I believe when matched with the proper amounts of fuel and ignition timing, the pistons should be able to withstand the increased combustion pressures. Secondly I rebuilt the bottom end, decked the head, seated all the valves (plus 8 new exhaust valves), 30k miles ago. When it was rebuilt I threw a new felpro head gasket on it. not the best gasket but I have seen turbo cars run 30 pounds on these (final compression pressure at 10-15psi on 9:1CR is not even close to 30psi on 7:81CR pistons). The only reason I ask these questions is to find out more about the internals of the NT, its not like I have taken a NT piston and performed structural analysis on it and compared it to a turbo piston. I am only seeking answers to practical examples others may have already performed. If I didnt feel confident in what I am doing I would have just thrown a 4g63t in it a long time ago. I just want to see what these motors can handle before the grenade. Worse comes to worse it, I blow a piston and I drop in a turbo block while reusing all aftermarket supporting mods. Too many people on these forums think these motors can only handle 8psi, no offence, I believe this is definitely true when not tuned correctly. When I first did the swap I had no tuning (only stock turbo ECU) and was making knock at 8psi. Currently I have tuned the car for 12 with 0 knock and is running strong since.

Looks like you have nothing to say... If I were you I wouldn't be saying shit if you have no credentials in saying it. You have no background in turbo conversions and by the look of your other threads; you’re no expert in forced induction systems either. However I did notice you seem to cut apart people, especially new members, quite easily because they are making a “stupid post” (GST converted to GSX thread). Ohh no, tough guy here! This guy was totally new and probably just didn’t know much about proper forum usage.

Also how do you qualify to tell me I can only run 10psi on my setup? Like I already specified, you have no experience in this matter and if you read the start of the thread, I was asking for feedback specifically from people who have made the conversion. If I wanted to get that bullshit response, I would of just searched the other 300 posts about conversions made by close minded and inexperienced individuals like yourself. I used to like this forum, but there’s too many people like you, playing the smart ass role, giving negative information instead of encouraging and helping people that just want some simple advice.

You’re a fucking douche….

:lol: Wow, called out by a n00b.

You have no idea about these newbies from the mod point of veiw so dont even open your mouth about that. I am supposed to keep the forum in order and its frustrating as hell when the same few n00bs make horse shit posts in the wrong spots after having been told to read the rules numerous times.

I am far from being a wiseman when it comes to turbo systems, but I know more than you. Go ahead, ask me how I know. Try many hundreds of hours under the hood of a DSM and literally thousands of hours reading on them. I am not the one running around asking about how much "psi" his stock NT bottom end can handle without ever mentioning a turbo or support mods (which I hope you have, if not the fuel needed for the air flow at 10 pounds of boost on pretty much any turbo are exceeding your stock fuel system). Remember,in posting you asked for my advice, nates6969, and this "close minded and inexperienced" individual happens to have a different veiw point than you. Tough shit.

Think you're the only Mechanical Engineering major here? Well guess what, you arent and just because you are doesnt mean you know jack shit about turbo systems.

Why dont you take a couple days and chill the fuck out. When you come back, if I see shit like this again you will get a permanent one way ticket to Banlandia.