Winter/spring plans and my future setup... comments wanted

I have been threatening writing this thread for a while now, I was just looking at parts on SBR and eBay and got all riled up again. So here goes.

As most of you know, my 90 spun a rod bearing and I have a 91 parts car. Well, I bet a lot of that 90 engine is junk now, the block, some valves, head parts, and a couple rods are probably all thats worth salvaging. So I am faced with a rebuild so I have to take a good, hard look at what I want.

After much thinking I decided on somewhere in the neighborhood of 400-450 streetable HP. I dont want something so beastly its almost not streetable, I also dont want to do a super hard core build and not be pushing its potential, but I also dont want a 300 car. Where 300 hp is quite a bit of power, I want to be semi competitive with high end sports cars like the new z06 and Vipers. Sorta side trackin, but every year theres a car show in my hometwon. A couple years ago a couple Vipers showed up. Two and three years ago there was like 10. Last year, there was I think 18-20. How fuckin sweet would it be to wax a Viper that thinks hes the shit? My car with less invested in it that his set of rubber costs and at 450 hp, he would be my bitch. Also, my ET goals are for sure 11.999 or better and it would be pretty awesome to get booted from the track for no roll bar and going 11.499 or less.

That said, I have a few parameters of the build I am still wavering on. One is engine displacement. I am not going to go 2.3, I am teetering between 2.0 and 2.4. I know a stock 6 bolt can take 400-450 hp just fine so I would just do a stock rebuild if I were to get a 2.0. I also have more than enough parts to rebuild with so I most likely wont need to buy much other than some rings, bearings, and gaskets unless that 91 engine needs to be bored, but still stock pistons and a bore isnt that big of a deal. I would love to go 2.4 because of the instant spool ability. However, if I were to go 2.4, I would have to buy a 6 bolt 2.4 bottom end and those fuckers are not cheap. I have only found one locally and he wants $500 firm. On top of that, I would have to get forged aftermarket pistons because those stock NT'ers are too high of compression. Also, after driving that 2g GSX the other night with that GT35R, I realised that 3000 rpms spool is not a big deal. That 35R didnt spool until somewhere around 4200 and that was completely fine with me. The other thing is having a higher spool should be good on gas since I wont be boosting during everyday driving. Since I am only shooting for 450, a 50 or 60 trim will make that power and still spool before 4000. Also, 2.0's can rev out farther than that 2.4. After writing all that, I think I got 'er figured out, 2.0 is the way to go for me.

Alright, now that I got that figured out, I have to decide on my fuel setup. I want to run E85 (85% ethanol/15% gas). That shit is bananas. Ethanol is more resistant to knock. I know a guy that ran E85 on his Evo with no intercooler and like 20 pounds of boost and still managed no knock. I know another guy running E85 on a 2.4 and a 50 trim, because of the resistancy to knock, he can pretty much max it out daily. Thats what I really want, to be able to pull 11's on full street trim. The problem I see with ethanol is that over time it wears down aluminum so I will have to replace the fuel lines. Also, E85 requires quite a bit more fuel so getting 450 might be maxing out or getting pretty close to maxing out a 255 and 1000cc injectors. I for sure dont want to have to go to a fuel cell/out of tank pump setup because I want to keep the price down. High octane race gas is just out of the question at what like $12 a gallon? So my other option is running 92/93 octane pump gas on meth/h2o injection. The 255 and even smaller injectors will be plenty, then. I talked to a guy the other day that said his friend switched from E85 to meth/water injection and liked the meth/water injection better because 92/93 and the windshield washer fluid can be found everywhere. My problem with that is, I thought tuning the meth/h2o injection was a PITA and after hearing about scottsee's luck with meth/h2o injection system, I dont want to have it fail on me and have knock eat my engine. So what do you guys think? I am about 80% sure I want to go E85.

Another thing I am having a had time with is an MAF. The 1g is not going to be good at that kinda power so I gotta upgrade. Its either 2g or GM MAFT. I dont have a problem with either, I honestly dont care which I do. The thing is, I can get a Dejon 2g intake pipe with the MAF and 1g convertor and KN FIPK for like $100. So its either that or $200 for a MAFT and like $50 for a GM MAF. With the GM MAFT dont you also need a MAP sensor? Just more shit I gotta buy for that. So what do you guys think, 2g MAF or GM MAFT? (I would especially like your input on this scottsee)

So basically, my list for this winter and spring is rebuild parts after I get the engines apart and assess the damage, injectors, DSMlink, 255, FPR, IC pipes, possibly a BOV (I am going to be running past what the 1g can handle), MAF option, and a few guages that actually work. After all that, all I need is the 50 trim and my setup is complete! So drop some knowledge on my guys, what do you think?

I think your a damn idiot...

Hey, you asked. lol :wink:


I'm just messing with ya... I would do the 2.0 build with a 57 trim turbo and use water injection as opposed to the e85... I just wouldn't like the thought of that e85 wearing down on the internals of the head. :2cents:

i would go with the water injection also... :2cents:

I don't think that the revving limits of the 2.0/2.4 are that big of a difference, unless you plan to rev to 10,000. And for keeping knock down, run 1/2 92/93 octane and 1/2 E85. IIRC, it brings the octane rating up to around 98-100, which would be enough to run pretty hard without knocking, but would also be cheaper than all premium. Water injection wouldn't be bad, but it's just more shit to go wrong.

Exactly what I was thinking. How many times has scottsee's been down due to some of it breaking? I think he had to send shit in twice before he could even test it out. Its not all that cheap either, I havent checked eBay, but SBR's kits are like minimum $300.

As for rev limit, I think I am going to rev it out to like 7500 to start, go to 8000 after that and if I feel ballsy maybe 8500. After all the advocating I do for stock springs, I think some good springs are in my future. Not because I dont think the stockers arent capable, but they are getting old. 120k on one set and 105 on the other. If I get some good springs she'll be going out to 8500. I thought the 2.4's had to stay at 7000, but I dont know for sure. I have my mind made up though, its going to be the far cheaper option and a ~3800 rpm spool is right where I want it.

What about MAF's? Think the 2g at $100 would be the best route or would it be worth it to go with a GM MAFT setup for like $250? I dont care about venting, I guess venting would be nice since I wont have to worry about getting a BOV that recirculates, but either way I really dont care. As sweet as BOV noise is, its not big on the priority list.

Keep the comments rolling guys!

I would just get everything as cheap as you can just to get it up and running. I'd go with a 2g MAF and then after if you want to "upgrade", then go with the MAFT. I think I'll be going with the MAFT, but that's just because I want to vent. But if I was in your situation, I'd just go with the MAF for now, but then again I'm usually the one that says why not do it in the first place instead of screwing around upgrading later? I really don't know what to tell you, I could go both ways. I think it's just an opinion upgrade, everyone will say something different.

I could always stay 1g MAF for a while, I wont be running the bigger turbo until probably like July. If the GM MAF has a clear advantage over the 2g MAF I would probably go that route, but if they are the same I would just do it the cheaper way. I know the GM MAF is maybe a bit better since you can put the sensor way up by the TB and thus elminating the harmful effects of boost leaks. Would the 2g have the capacity to flow enough for 450 hp though? I kinda forgot about the position of the GM MAF, maybe that would be the way for me to go. It would be a bit more money, but I guess its alright since I am not doing the 2.4. So is the 3.3 bar MAP sensor something that is pretty much a necessity for GM MAF?

2g MAF is only good to 50 lbs/min, or just about what a plain jane 50 trim flows. Hacked in combination with DSMlink it's good to 57 lbs/min. This might be the wya to go if you decided on a 50 trim. The stock 2g MAS can be cutting it a little too close on cold days. The EVO MAS is good to a good bit over 60 lbs/min, perhaps 65, and can be setup in DSMlink in the airflow comp table using the numbers posted for EVO owners running DSMlink. The wiring is not bad at all, of course. MAFt is an option, but I decided long ago I hate those things. It got the job done, but not until I help debug the thing free of charge for the manufacture and spent hours on end calibrating the POS. 1g MAF is worthless, I wouldn't even piss on one if it was on fire.

If you have the SG of E85 and the target AFR you need to run (10:1?) I can tell you have you need for a fuel system at a given airflow rate, if you haven't figured all that out already.

I reved my strockers to 8200-8400, FWIW.

I dont know what SG is, but IIRC we need to shoot for ~9:1 AFR's. I am kinda thinking a GM MAFT is what I am going to be looking at, though I know they can be a bitch to tune. I dont know exactly how much air I am/should be flowing, I am going to have to see what I can get a hold of for a turbo and go from there.

SG is Specific Gravity, or density relative to water.

Google is amazing. Heres what I found...

Specific Gravity: (I found two things) Site A says .70-.77, Site B says <.7890

AFR (from Wikipedia):

E85 stoichiometric 9.765
E85 max power rich 6.975
E85 max power lean 8.4687