break in period

i just rebuilt my b16, we are in the process of dropping it back in and fixing the originals owners wiring crap job. everything on the engine is new. how many miles does it need before i can drive it? know what i mean? some have been saying 500 before vtec others ppl are telling me between 1000 and 200. what's your opinions? or facts. those are always good.

Fast break in or the old fashioned way?

after i put mine in i changed the oil at 500 then waited till 1000 to turn on vtec and changed the oil again. dont kno what the facts are on it, i just babied it till i was sure i had it all tuned correctly

wheres the hairy knee tsc? now ive got a shotgun pointed at my face

:1: TSC

you have to let the new parts date before they get married. you don't want an ugly divorce :nono:

Fast break in, its what most everything is going to now, alot of companys do this to new cars before they leave the plant. Bring the engine up to operating temp, run it at 50% of redline for 10 minutes (under load, that means on the street, not revving in your garage), change the oil, run at 75% of redline for 10-15 minutes, change oil. Give it hell for 15-20 minutes, change oil. After this, drive normal- the rings are fully seated. USE REGULAR OIL NOT SYNTHETIC. Oil change means filter also. This is starting to take over as the prefered method of break in, and its proven to work.

The Conventual methode, is baby it, change oil every 500 miles for the first 2000 miles. This is the way your father and grandfather did it- but the tolorances and materials now days are exponentually better.

Personally I recomend a fast break in, I'v tried both, honestly you wont be able to tell a differnce, I never have. The site I mentioned shows examples of how the fast break in reduces blow by.

As for the sig.. some queer bag got his panties in a wad and ran off crying.

i just rebuilt my b16, we are in the process of dropping it back in and fixing the originals owners wiring crap job. everything on the engine is new. how many miles does it need before i can drive it? know what i mean? some have been saying 500 before vtec others ppl are telling me between 1000 and 200. what's your opinions? or facts. those are always good.

Modern rings do not require a breakin anymore.
Old days we usd noDetergent oil to help seat them.
Do not use a heavey weight oil.
5w10 wt is a good breakn oil
As said good idea to change oil and filter soon or even slip another filter on it in a hundred miles.
I would suggest not holding a steady speed for a long period of time.
Slow up and then speed up a little during first 1-2K miles.
MT

well there is a crx meet up in L.A. on the 5th and i really wanted to go. so ya'll think if i slap 500 miles on it i could drive 4 hours to get to l.a.?
and tsc i didn't see any site listed in your post.

Modern rings do not require a breakin anymore.
Old days we usd noDetergent oil to help seat them.
Do not use a heavey weight oil.
5w10 wt is a good breakn oil
As said good idea to change oil and filter soon or even slip another filter on it in a hundred miles.
I would suggest not holding a steady speed for a long period of time.
Slow up and then speed up a little during first 1-2K miles.
MT

I beg to differ. WTF are "modern" rings? If you understand the micro-process that's going on there, then you'd know why you use non-detergent solid weight oil. It has nothing to do with the rings themselves, it has to do with friction. Dino and Synthetic oil are too "smooth" for the break in process. They don't allow the wearing down of the "peaks" in the fresh hone. You want the rings to expand into the cylinder and wear down these peaks. Not to mention, if you run dino or synthetic oil before breakin has occured, you'll just end up burning oil because the new cylinders and rings haven't adapted to each other yet.
Any REAL engine builder will tell you the same thing. Seriously, if you don't want to listen to me, go talk to some reputable builders of hondas.

Here's what should be done, and like I said, any reputable honda engine builder will tell you the same thing, with very slight variances in mileage.

Initial startup process for new cylinders/rings:
Fill the motor up with 30W non detergent oil (quality does not matter). Just buy the cheapest you can find. Also, pick up the cheapest oil filter you can find (usually Fram). Check the dipstick periodically to see when the oil pan is full. Try not to fill higher than the upper most dot on the dip stick. It should be around 4 quarts (remember, you need a little extra oil for the vtec oil line).
Fill the motor with a 50/50 mixture of coolant to water. Believe it or not, the more water this mixture has, the cooler the engine will run. But, you need antifreeze in colder climates to prevent coolant freeze/expansion, as well as to prevent the water pump and sleeves from corroding. So, you would be fine to run 70/30 water/coolant ratio in the summer. Water does evaporate though, so check the level a little more often.
Make SURE you have your oil drain plug and oil filter installed, as well as your fill cap re-tightened.
Now, disconnect the ecu and turn the motor over for roughly 30 seconds to build up oil pressure. This is the easiest way to ensure you will not be injecting fuel and spark into the cylinders. Reinstall the ecu you will be using.
Fire the motor up and check for leaks. Make sure to check around the vtec oil line, as well as around the corners of the head, and underneath the distributor. These are common places for motors in general to leak oil. Make sure the oil pressure light extinguishes immediately. If not, turn the car off and troubleshoot. Let the car reach full operating temperature. Immediately begin to tune the car for a 14.1-15.1 AFR at idle. The closer to 14.7:1 the better. That's it. For the rest of the tuning, I'd suggest a street tune first then tune on the dyno, but every tuner has his/her own ways.

Oil changing schedule:
Initial - 30w non detergent
after 20 miles - 30w non detergent
after 100 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 500 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 1000 miles - your favorite non-syn/synthetic (it is now safe to run synthetic)

You should stop seeing metal shavings in the oil after the 100 mile oil change. I strongly recommend using a magnetic oil drain plug for freshly built motors. You don't want all those shavings being pumped to the bearings, cams, or splashing on the cylinder walls...bad. Don't worry though, they will be there, no matter how close the clearances are.

Now for the break in. Try to vary the revs as much as possible, with alot of short blasts. It is very important that you let the engine "brake" itself by just letting off the throttle and letting the vehicle slow down on it's own, while in gear. This creates a vaccum in the cylinder and forces the rings outward, which wears down the peaks in the cylinder's fresh hone. Do this for the first 20 miles, and then proceed to beat the shit out of the motor, up to it's maximum rev range, as long as it is tuned accordingly. As long as the bearings are within spec and the rod bolts were torqued correctly, there is NOTHING to worry about.

I guarantee you WILL NOT burn oil using this break in method. If you do, you probably have leaky valve seals or bad rings/cylinder hone, or maybe possibly even other major problems with alignment of the sleeves themselves.

If the motor doesn't hold together under stressful conditions now, then what makes you think it will 1,000 miles down the road? Babying it is just going to hurt your motor's performance down the road. I honestly want to hear some people's opinions on what they think "babying" is doing for the motor. I want to hear the faulted logic there.

I beg to differ. WTF are "modern" rings? If you understand the micro-process that's going on there, then you'd know why you use non-detergent solid weight oil. It has nothing to do with the rings themselves, it has to do with friction. Dino and Synthetic oil are too "smooth" for the break in process. They don't allow the wearing down of the "peaks" in the fresh hone. You want the rings to expand into the cylinder and wear down these peaks. Not to mention, if you run dino or synthetic oil before breakin has occured, you'll just end up burning oil because the new cylinders and rings haven't adapted to each other yet.
Any REAL engine builder will tell you the same thing. Seriously, if you don't want to listen to me, go talk to some reputable builders of hondas.

Here's what should be done, and like I said, any reputable honda engine builder will tell you the same thing, with very slight variances in mileage.

Initial startup process for new cylinders/rings:
Fill the motor up with 30W non detergent oil (quality does not matter). Just buy the cheapest you can find. Also, pick up the cheapest oil filter you can find (usually Fram). Check the dipstick periodically to see when the oil pan is full. Try not to fill higher than the upper most dot on the dip stick. It should be around 4 quarts (remember, you need a little extra oil for the vtec oil line).
Fill the motor with a 50/50 mixture of coolant to water. Believe it or not, the more water this mixture has, the cooler the engine will run. But, you need antifreeze in colder climates to prevent coolant freeze/expansion, as well as to prevent the water pump and sleeves from corroding. So, you would be fine to run 70/30 water/coolant ratio in the summer. Water does evaporate though, so check the level a little more often.
Make SURE you have your oil drain plug and oil filter installed, as well as your fill cap re-tightened.
Now, disconnect the ecu and turn the motor over for roughly 30 seconds to build up oil pressure. This is the easiest way to ensure you will not be injecting fuel and spark into the cylinders. Reinstall the ecu you will be using.
Fire the motor up and check for leaks. Make sure to check around the vtec oil line, as well as around the corners of the head, and underneath the distributor. These are common places for motors in general to leak oil. Make sure the oil pressure light extinguishes immediately. If not, turn the car off and troubleshoot. Let the car reach full operating temperature. Immediately begin to tune the car for a 14.1-15.1 AFR at idle. The closer to 14.7:1 the better. That's it. For the rest of the tuning, I'd suggest a street tune first then tune on the dyno, but every tuner has his/her own ways.

Oil changing schedule:
Initial - 30w non detergent
after 20 miles - 30w non detergent
after 100 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 500 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 1000 miles - your favorite non-syn/synthetic (it is now safe to run synthetic)

You should stop seeing metal shavings in the oil after the 100 mile oil change. I strongly recommend using a magnetic oil drain plug for freshly built motors. You don't want all those shavings being pumped to the bearings, cams, or splashing on the cylinder walls...bad. Don't worry though, they will be there, no matter how close the clearances are.

Now for the break in. Try to vary the revs as much as possible, with alot of short blasts. It is very important that you let the engine "brake" itself by just letting off the throttle and letting the vehicle slow down on it's own, while in gear. This creates a vaccum in the cylinder and forces the rings outward, which wears down the peaks in the cylinder's fresh hone. Do this for the first 20 miles, and then proceed to beat the shit out of the motor, up to it's maximum rev range, as long as it is tuned accordingly. As long as the bearings are within spec and the rod bolts were torqued correctly, there is NOTHING to worry about.

I guarantee you WILL NOT burn oil using this break in method. If you do, you probably have leaky valve seals or bad rings/cylinder hone, or maybe possibly even other major problems with alignment of the sleeves themselves.

If the motor doesn't hold together under stressful conditions now, then what makes you think it will 1,000 miles down the road? Babying it is just going to hurt your motor's performance down the road. I honestly want to hear some people's opinions on what they think "babying" is doing for the motor. I want to hear the faulted logic there.


Well everybody is welcome to there ideas on it.

Maybe years ago with old type rings yes we used nodetergent oil to brake in rings.
And when they got worn out it was back to nodetergent.
But rings and the so called breakin process has changed over the years.
Newer type rings have very little breakin to do.
I have pulled engines down with 100K-150k on them and they still have the crosshatch hone marks in the cylinder walls.
How many cars engines in the last 20-25 years have even seen nodetergent oil.
How many new cars come out with it in a new engine?
I even have a very hard time even finding the stuff.
How many re-ring manufactures co. say to use nondetergent oil to seat there rings?
MT

Ok, while we are on breakin, what would you suggest on breaking in a motor that you can't drive up and down the street? 20 miles going back and forth in a city back yard is going to be a very long day.

Ok, while we are on breakin, what would you suggest on breaking in a motor that you can't drive up and down the street? 20 miles going back and forth in a city back yard is going to be a very long day.

Well Tony
Where there is a will there should be a way.:grinyes: :lol:
It would be nice to have a portable dyno machine on that one.
Or tow it out in the country and use someones back 40.
Good Luck
MT

I might be able to pull up some dyno time. I was orignally gonna just raise the front end off the ground and let it go that way, but I kinda want to make sure it gets broken in good before it hits the track because that all these(building 2 this winter for 2 cars) motors are gonna get.

I might be able to pull up some dyno time. I was orignally gonna just raise the front end off the ground and let it go that way, but I kinda want to make sure it gets broken in good before it hits the track because that all these(building 2 this winter for 2 cars) motors are gonna get.

Good Luck with them Tony
After the old babbit rod days.
They always told me to break them like you are going to drive them.
But not sure that includes race tract driving.
But I am sure a lot of engines are broke in wide open on tract.
MT

Yea, thats what I was always told was to break it in the way its gonna be run, no sense in babying it.

ok so i drive the car for 20 miles. (bambam) while doing that i speed up and let the engine slow itself down? then afeter the initial 20 i drive it like i stole it? my redline is 10,000. i don't have a dyno to tune on but i do have a stretch of road that's 1 1/2 miles long to drive up and down alll day.

Well everybody is welcome to there ideas on it.

Maybe years ago with old type rings yes we used nodetergent oil to brake in rings.
And when they got worn out it was back to nodetergent.
But rings and the so called breakin process has changed over the years.
Newer type rings have very little breakin to do.
I have pulled engines down with 100K-150k on them and they still have the crosshatch hone marks in the cylinder walls.
How many cars engines in the last 20-25 years have even seen nodetergent oil.
How many new cars come out with it in a new engine?
I even have a very hard time even finding the stuff.
How many re-ring manufactures co. say to use nondetergent oil to seat there rings?
MT


WTF? Dude, you're fucking stupid.
Tell me exactly what the difference between an "old" ring vs. a "new" ring is. Please, enlighten me. You only use nondetergent, solid weight oil for the break in.
-New cars are already broken in from the factory.
-I buy non-detergent 30W oil from walmart, autozone, pepboys, benny's, etc. It's not hard at all to find.

You use non-detergent for breakin because you don't want any foreign chemicals in the oil for the breakin process. There's no need for them. You want as much ring to cylinder contact as possible, hence the need for non-detergent, 30W oil.

Do yourself a favor and talk to a HONDA builder. He'll tell you the same thing. You're right, we do have our own opinions. Consider this though, any reputable honda builder will tell you you're foolish to run anything but non-detergent solid 30w oil in a fresh motor for breakin. It has nothing to do with rings, it has to do with mechanics and understanding how an engine operates. I guarantee If you go buy a piston ring for a 90 integra, it's going to be the same fucking part number as the piston ring for a 01 integra, as well as an 00 civic si, 89 crx siR, 96 del sol vtec, 92 gsr, etc. It goes even further back for Dseries rings. So what exactly has changed here? The only thing that has changed in the last 15 years maybe, is your intelligence level.

Like me or love me. Don't care. But I won't let you spread misinformation to America's honda-builders of tomorrow.

ok so i drive the car for 20 miles. (bambam) while doing that i speed up and let the engine slow itself down? then afeter the initial 20 i drive it like i stole it? my redline is 10,000. i don't have a dyno to tune on but i do have a stretch of road that's 1 1/2 miles long to drive up and down alll day.

here, I'll simplify it:
-Very first startup: allow motor to heat up to operating temp.
-Tune afr to 14.5-15.0:1 @ idle.
-Make sure afr's are within 13:1 to 15:1 at all times. You don't want to wash out your rings w/ fuel and prevent them from seating
-as long as your afr's are right, you're good.
-2nd gear or 3rd gear (3rd gear is better, but requires more road).
-give the car 50% throttle pulls all the way up to 3k, then 4k, then 5k, then 6k, then 7k, then 8k, then 9k, then upto redline allowing the car to slow itself down each time, while still in gear.
-Repeat for 70% throttle and then WOT. You may use this time to tune the AFR's as well. Do not spend prolonged time if the car ever sees <13:1 afr or greater than 15:1 afr. You do want your afr's a little more on the lean side for break in, but nothing crazy.
-for the first 20 miles, make sure to vary the rev's as much as possible, meaning don't get caught in traffic, and don't let the car idle (except for the initial warmup). Idling is the next worst thing you could do to new rings because you aren't creating any vaccuum.
-most of the break in will occur within the first 10-20 minutes of running, but the process is still slightly ongoing for about the next 500-1000 miles.
-at 1000 miles, there's no doubt that the car is broken in, and you can now start using synthetic if you'd like. I suggest German Castrol Sythetic (the green colored kind). Mobil 1 is fine as well.
-as long as your clearances are within spec, and everything was torqued down correctly, your motor will be fine. If it blows now, it wouldv'e blown down the road regardless. The motor isn't going to magically become indestructable because you've babied it for the first xxx miles. That's actually the worst thing you could do during breakin because you haven't presented the normal stresses to the motor that it will see down the road when you race it.
-next, give the car 70% throttle pulls in each gear working your way upto redline

This is the site I was mentioning. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

how the hell am i suppose to tune? with what? i don't got any gauges. and i don't have a laptop or ems system.

not exactly an indepth article there tsc. seems to be alot about motorcycles. i don't know. i'm still con fused. i guess i will do a mix of both. give gas and let off for the first 20 miles then proceed to beat the shit out of it. does that mean for the first 20 no vtec? then after wards i can hit vtec?

bambam---
do i let the car idle up to operating temp? or do i drive it around the block to get there?

bambam---
do i let the car idle up to operating temp? or do i drive it around the block to get there?
It's a good practice to never drive the car until it has reached operating temp. I know it's a PITA, but if you love your motor, then you'll do it.

how the hell am i suppose to tune? with what? i don't got any gauges. and i don't have a laptop or ems system.

That's for you to determine bro. You need a chipped (with an eeprom) ecu. Then find yourself a good tuner w/ a wideband (or buy your own).

not exactly an indepth article there tsc. seems to be alot about motorcycles. i don't know. i'm still con fused. i guess i will do a mix of both. give gas and let off for the first 20 miles then proceed to beat the shit out of it. does that mean for the first 20 no vtec? then after wards i can hit vtec?

That article is fine. It's the same thing. A 4 stroke is a 4 stroke, as he mentions.
Read my last big post, i explained it all there.

so i can't start my car till then?

what if i just buy a gauge?
digital with numbers or just the lil lite up line?

oh bambam what would we all do without you.
can you just fly out here and tune my car for me.

we'll make it a keeger or something.

WTF? Dude, you're fucking stupid.
Tell me exactly what the difference between an "old" ring vs. a "new" ring is. Please, enlighten me. You only use nondetergent, solid weight oil for the break in.
-New cars are already broken in from the factory.
-I buy non-detergent 30W oil from walmart, autozone, pepboys, benny's, etc. It's not hard at all to find.

You use non-detergent for breakin because you don't want any foreign chemicals in the oil for the breakin process. There's no need for them. You want as much ring to cylinder contact as possible, hence the need for non-detergent, 30W oil.

Do yourself a favor and talk to a HONDA builder. He'll tell you the same thing. You're right, we do have our own opinions. Consider this though, any reputable honda builder will tell you you're foolish to run anything but non-detergent solid 30w oil in a fresh motor for breakin. It has nothing to do with rings, it has to do with mechanics and understanding how an engine operates. I guarantee If you go buy a piston ring for a 90 integra, it's going to be the same fucking part number as the piston ring for a 01 integra, as well as an 00 civic si, 89 crx siR, 96 del sol vtec, 92 gsr, etc. It goes even further back for Dseries rings. So what exactly has changed here? The only thing that has changed in the last 15 years maybe, is your intelligence level.

Like me or love me. Don't care. But I won't let you spread misinformation to America's honda-builders of tomorrow.

For your information about modern and old rings.
Old engines had babbit rods and old type cast rings.
Then along came inserts and cast rings.
That needed non detergent oil for breakin.
Then they started using chrome rings.
That were still a little hard to seat and some people used nodetergent oil to breakin on a ring job.
Then along came molley rings
Not much breakin required.
Then along comes plasma molley rings.
Again no breakin required.

Within the last 25 years I have never heard of a major engine rebuilder or new car manufacture or a seller of new engines or a piston ring manufacture recommending using nodetergent oil for breakin.

As said everyone is welcome to there ideas But.

I am not here to get into a pissing match with a 21 year old that knows everything and thinks everbody else is stupid.
I have been there and know the growing pains of a 21 year old that thinks he knows it all and I have kids that have been 21 years and thought they knowed it all and now they have kids with the same problem.:grinyes: :grinno: :lol:
But one thing for sure I am sure not stupid enought to do this to breakin a engine.
As you stated to do.
give the car 50% throttle pulls all the way up to 3k, then 4k, then 5k, then 6k, then 7k, then 8k, then 9k, then upto redline allowing the car to slow itself down each time, while still in gear.

i just rebuilt my b16, we are in the process of dropping it back in and fixing the originals owners wiring crap job. everything on the engine is new. how many miles does it need before i can drive it? know what i mean? some have been saying 500 before vtec others ppl are telling me between 1000 and 200. what's your opinions? or facts. those are always good.

To better help you.
Did you give the cylinder walls a heavey or course hone job.
Can you tell us what kind of rings you put in it.
Cast, chrome or molley or plasma molley or exc.?
Was it just a ring job or bored out?
What kind of oil are you putting in it?
MT

For your information about modern and old rings.
Old engines had babbit rods and old type cast rings.
Then along came inserts and cast rings.
That needed non detergent oil for breakin.
Then they started using chrome rings.
That were still a little hard to seat and some people used nodetergent oil to breakin on a ring job.
Then along came molley rings
Not much breakin required.
Then along comes plasma molley rings.
Again no breakin required.

Within the last 25 years I have never heard of a major engine rebuilder or new car manufacture or a seller of new engines or a piston ring manufacture recommending using nodetergent oil for breakin.

As said everyone is welcome to there ideas But.

I am not here to get into a pissing match with a 21 year old that knows everything and thinks everbody else is stupid.
I have been there and know the growing pains of a 21 year old that thinks he knows it all and I have kids that have been 21 years and thought they knowed it all and now they have kids with the same problem.:grinyes: :grinno: :lol:
But one thing for sure I am sure not stupid enought to do this to breakin a engine.
As you stated to do.
give the car 50% throttle pulls all the way up to 3k, then 4k, then 5k, then 6k, then 7k, then 8k, then 9k, then upto redline allowing the car to slow itself down each time, while still in gear.


Let's not play the age game. Age has no coorelation to intelligence or experience. Crap, just ask my 29 year old girlfriend. So what's your argument? As I stated earlier, talk to a honda builder. Earl Laskey, Jeff @ Import Builders, Tom aka Tbone @ honda-tech. These are some of the top Honda builders in the industry. If you don't like my opinion, then so be it. Ask their's. I know for a damn fact I don't burn one ounce of oil when my motor's turning 9200 rpm's, and that's with synthetic. Same results with any of the other motors I've put together for both myself and customers.
Piston ring compostion has no weight on the fact that non-detergent SHOULD be used for breakin. Is it necessary? No. I'll agree on that. But is it smart? Yes. Combustion engine operation and dynamics still apply regardless. I agree, the breakin on chromoly rings is less harsh. But, additives (detergents, etc.) can still create an impedement to the breakin process. This is where having a good understanding of what is actually going on, on a minute level during breakin and normal engine operation would benefit you. You want the rings to contact the cylinders as much as possible. It's what you WANT; so why would you want something in the oil to impede that process?
As for being a know-it-all...I'll accept that. Thanks for the compliment anyway. Don't get that confused with being a close-minded individual. That is something that I am not, which is more of what you are trying to imply. I refuse to offer advise to someone unless I know it's truth, and I'll continue to speak from experience only. I have my credibility on the line w/ every statement I make, especially when it comes to building motors. I'll just leave it at that. My opinion's on the table as is your's. Anyone building a motor should not just use one or two person's opinions as a sole guide anyway. Anyone wishing to build, rebuild, or breakin a new motor should do more research and seek multiple opinions.. Honda-tech.com would be a good place for more in-depth conversation w/ some of those reputable people.

-bambam

so i can't start my car till then?

what if i just buy a gauge?
digital with numbers or just the lil lite up line?

Well, you can start your car anytime you want. That's totally your decision in the end. I just wouldn't recommend it. BTW, forgive me if you posted it, but are you running higher than stock compression or aftermarket cams? If your upgrades are limited to intake and exhaust components, then your motor will be fine off of the stock ecu w/out tuning. The AFR's will be close enough to not worry. Now if you have changed out the cams for units other than what the stock ecu support, then you will need to tune. Most imporant though, is if you've increased the bore, stroke, or compression of the motor. It will definitely require tuning at that point. Don't mistake though, tuning would be an advantage for you regardless. It could be the difference between a 132whp motor or a 141whp motor. That's the difference between good tuning and a proper breakin versus no tuning and an improper breakin. Chances are, the motor w/ the improper breakin will run fine, but it may consume oil and have slightly lower compression, therefore lowering your power output slightly.

As for me flying out there, I would. But it wouldn't be worth it for you to pay for a $500 plane ticket, then another $100 for my labor, as well as a hotel for a night. It'd end up costing you about $750 just for me to come tune your shit....haha. I can send you in the right direction as to exactly everything you'd need to tune your car. It's about $550 worth of parts and labor. You'd definitely learn alot about ecu's, electronics, and tuning along the way. Patience is the key to this sport. You can never stop learning.

MT-
my supervisor did the honing for me. he's rebuilt his engine in his corvette by himself and that things a fucking beast.

they are nippon rings

i just replaced the rings and bearings.

i used to use mobil 1 5000, now i don't know what to use.

it's a manuel tranny.

i'm starting to wonder if i should have asked this. there is way to much to understand for my a.d.d self. lol

MT-
my supervisor did the honing for me. he's rebuilt his engine in his corvette by himself and that things a fucking beast.

they are nippon rings

i just replaced the rings and bearings.

i used to use mobil 1 5000, now i don't know what to use.

it's a manuel tranny.

i'm starting to wonder if i should have asked this. there is way to much to understand for my a.d.d self. lol


10-4 on that hondacivic99sivtec
But you do not learn untill you ask.
And I wonder if I should have answered.:grinyes: :lol2:

But it may depend on what kind of rings the nippon rings are.
Cast or chrome or molley.
Rings have changed over the years and we hope for the better.

Some require more breakin than others.
In my older days of ringing and engine building we always used no-detergent oil to help wear in/breakin/seatin the rings.
But that was when they used cast and some early type chrome rings.
Newer engines have went to more molley type rings that do not require much breaking in.

I am not up on Honda procedures or what type of rings they use.
But most manufactures and engine rebuilders do not use no-detergent oil for breakin anymore.
So in all fairness I would do some research on Honda rings and on what the rebuilders recommend for them.

But I would stay away from symthetic oil on a breakin of a ring job.
I would suggest a regular 5W30 oil for breakin and not holding a steady speed.
The theory on lighter oil is lighter gets into and lubes the tight spots better.
On breakin just drive it and enjoy it but.
Just slow up and speed up a little to get a better lube in the tight spots.

Good Luck
MT

Okay, I've done some work for you. I found a bunch of threads with the same questions you have:

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=632033&page=2
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1212485
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1169879
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1155194
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=718963
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=554209


Okay just searching trough a bunch of the "what oil to use for breakin" threads over there, I came up with this:

-Everyone recommends NOT EVER using synthetic oil for breakin
-about 80% of people agree that you should use solid 30W oil for breakin (not 5w-30 or 10w-30)
-about 75% of people agree that you should use non-detergent oil
-about 20% of people recommend using 5w-30 or 10w-30, still non-synthetic.
-most people who recommend using 5w-30 or 10w-30 still recommend using a non-detergent blend for breakin
-everyone has there own oil changing schedule and breakin process, but most agree to beat on the motor (within reason) during the initial breakin period, and everyone recommends not using synthetic for at least the first 1000 miles.

Research more into the properties of oil, and you'll soon come to learn why you want a non-detergent, non synthetic, solid 30w oil for your first startup and breakin. Don't just take other people's word for it. Actually do the research yourself and you can't go wrong. 90% of the breakin process occurs within the first 20-30 minutes and the first 20 miles of driving. This is the critical period.
Now, non-detergent shouldn't be used for the entire break in. It should only be used for the first 20-30 minutes of operation, then switch to your 5w-30 or 10w-30 oil for the continued breakin process.

MT-
my supervisor did the honing for me. he's rebuilt his engine in his corvette by himself and that things a fucking beast.

they are nippon rings

i just replaced the rings and bearings.

i used to use mobil 1 5000, now i don't know what to use.

it's a manuel tranny.

i'm starting to wonder if i should have asked this. there is way to much to understand for my a.d.d self. lol


I ran a search on Nippon piston rings and this is all of the info I could get from there site.

Looks like 3 or more types of rings used.
1st ring: Steel + Cr 2nd ring: Cast ironOil ring: Nifflex-S (3 piece type) 1st ring: Steel + Cr 2nd ring: Steel + NitridingOil ring: Nifflex-H (3 piece type) 1st ring: Steel + PVD 2nd ring: Cast ironOil ring: 2 piece type with high traceability + PVD

In these environmentally aware times, progress is being made in the introduction of low-emission cars for NOX and HC reductions and in the control of fuel consumption for CO2 reduction. To achieve these purposes, the following techniques have been developed and incorporated in the design of piston rings.- Piston ring combination for low-friction - Thinner width compression-and oil control rings- Advanced surface treatments, and high-durability, low-cost materials- Optimum design through tuning techniques

I requested more info on breakin of rings from them.
If I hear anything back I will fordward it on to you.
MT

MT-
my supervisor did the honing for me. he's rebuilt his engine in his corvette by himself and that things a fucking beast.

they are nippon rings

i just replaced the rings and bearings.

i used to use mobil 1 5000, now i don't know what to use.

it's a manuel tranny.

i'm starting to wonder if i should have asked this. there is way to much to understand for my a.d.d self. lol

hondacivic99sivtec
Here is a good import repair forum where a real good Honda tech hangs out.
He goes by HondaDude.
He has forgot more about Honda's that most people knows.
http://www.batauto.com/cgi-bin/Forum/db_TalkToMeV2.cgi?forum_name=imports
Just drop down to the bottom of it and post your question.
No registration required.
And you can Tell HondaDude Crunch sent you.
It should be interesting and good info.
MT

i left a post. guess i'll just sit back and wait for a reply.
the car is all ready to go, just need to add oil and start.

i left a post. guess i'll just sit back and wait for a reply.
the car is all ready to go, just need to add oil and start.

I saw the post.
Looks like HondaDude took a few days off but I am sure he will return.
But Shep gave a good answer.
Good Luck and if anymore info shows I will let you know.
Let us how it goes.
MT

well i forgot to get a hose for the coolant. i took my heater core out. so tomarrow i will be starting her up (i hope).

well i forgot to get a hose for the coolant. i took my heater core out. so tomarrow i will be starting her up (i hope).

HondaDude just checked back in. His old computer was down.
I am installing a rebuilt ATK engine Built by ATK out of Santa Ana Ca.
They reccomend using what ever oil the the OEM manf reccomends using.
There web site is www.atkna.com.
They may give you some more info on web site.
Every place I have checked say to use regular OEM type engine oil for breakin.
It has been 25-30 years since I used nondetergent oil for breakin and even then it was on the old style cast iron rings.
Good Luck
MT

HondaDude just checked back in. His old computer was down.
I am installing a rebuilt ATK engine Built by ATK out of Santa Ana Ca.
They reccoment using what ever oil the the OEM manf reccomends using.
There web site is www.atkna.com.
They may give you some more info on web site.
Every place I have checked say to use regular OEM type engine oil for breakin.
It has been 25-30 years since I used nondetergent oil for breakin and even then it was on the old style cast iron rings.
Good Luck
MT

Yah, good luck.