Performance or Room for Tuning for Beginners

Okay folks, here's the question.

Say you know someone who's finally decided they're going to join the street scene. For the sake of speed in my own estimations, let's say they've decided to go the import/sport compact route. Now, they're on a limited budget, (for the purposes of this argument, let's say $5000 to start) and aren't sure what sort of car they should start out in. They don't have much performance driving experience, but can proficiently drive a manual transmission car. All that they've owned to this point have been bread-and-butter FF compacts (92' EX Civic sedans, as an example) So, the question posed is this; do you send them shopping for the most performance out of the box for their dollar(like a Turbo FC)? Or, do you direct them to a car with less stock performance but with ample room for tinkering and is less expensive (like an Acura Integra) so that they can learn the ropes?

I'll reveal my opinion after a couple of posts. I won't tell until then. :p

I'd start with the turbo FC. They may not be the most reliable, but at least they're unique, not to mention there is more potential there to start with and still plenty to tinker around with.

This is just my opinion. I couldn't help but to notice how you worded that last sentence. It's almost as if you are saying there is a right and wrong answer or something.:D

go with as much performance as you can get in the car in it's original form. If you do that, there is less room to screw up by tuning it. Plus it might cost more in the longrun if you get a tuner car from putting all the crap into it to make it go fast.

I'd say a combination of both if possible, but I would probably go with the best powerplant you could afford at the time.

There is always room for learning, regardless of the start...

hhhmmmmmmmmm with $5000 to start with you can start off with countless cars with good stock performance, ranging from Iroc-Z Camaros, 5.0 Mustangs, 1st Gen Eclipses and Talons, the list can go on and on.

So, i say go for as much performance as possible. A decent 91 Iroc Camaro will set you back say $3500-4000 that leaves about a grand for basics: headers, intake, exhaust, throttle body, and k&n filters. which should leave you about $60 towards the gas you're gonna burn while having fun. heck thats not even touching internals... you could have FUN with internal mods on a 350 motor. Yum! Up the cam for more duration, swap in a 400 crank, ooo 5.7" rods, KB lightweight pistons, and new heads.. yay!!!


BUT, if the driver is a NEW driver, go with least amount of power. Dont want the youngins to get hurt with an over powered car.

We're talking dragging here, and it has to be an import? I would say it is probably better to comprimise, but lean more towards the slower car. My reasoning for this is, if you start with a light car with not very much power, and learn to drive it very well, it's only a slight adjustment to add more power and drive it faster.

I would say a S13 hatchback with a KA24 would be a good start. You could pick one up for cheap with a tired engine, and rebuild it with a turbo and better clutch. You could start out with lower boost, and get used to driving it. The gradually increasing your power, you would be able to adjust your launches and shifting.

There is plenty of weight to be lost, taking out the back seat, removing the glass hatch, and so on. There is plenty of potential in a 2.4L DOHC motor when turbocharged.

If we are talking about drag racing, than a domestic would be my choice. The smallblock is king stoplight to stoplight.

If you want a cheap dragger, look for a '87 grand national ('87 was the best year for them). They do high 13s stock and you can find one with plenty less than 100k on the odometer for $5000. They also have a huge potential for tuning. I always see at least a dozen on ebay, even though they are fairly rare on the street.

The problem is they only come in automatic, and the dash/gauges arent really setup for racing. Plus they dont handle as well as an import.

If you must have an import, then a 240sx is a good starter.

Originally posted by Fliquer
If you want a cheap dragger, look for a '87 grand national ('87 was the best year for them). They do high 13s stock and you can find one with plenty less than 100k on the odometer for $5000. They also have a huge potential for tuning. I always see at least a dozen on ebay, even though they are fairly rare on the street.

The problem is they only come in automatic, and the dash/gauges arent really setup for racing. Plus they dont handle as well as an import.

If you must have an import, then a 240sx is a good starter.

You are out of your mind if you think you can find a GN in good condition for under 8 grand. You can get them for like 3000 but they normally have no motor or tranny's. Plus if they are going for under 10 grand that means that the owner probably didn't keep then tip top shape, and now that the car is 15 years old it has had some wear and tear and is gonna cost alot of dimes and pennies to keep it up and running.

Originally posted by RedNeck383
hhhmmmmmmmmm with $5000 to start with you can start off with countless cars with good stock performance, ranging from Iroc-Z Camaros, 5.0 Mustangs, 1st Gen Eclipses and Talons, the list can go on and on.
So, i say go for as much performance as possible. A decent 91 Iroc Camaro will set you back say $3500-4000 that leaves about a grand for basics: headers, intake, exhaust, throttle body, and k&n filters. which should leave you about $60 towards the gas you're gonna burn while having fun. heck thats not even touching internals... you could have FUN with internal mods on a 350 motor. Yum! Up the cam for more duration, swap in a 400 crank, ooo 5.7" rods, KB lightweight pistons, and new heads.. yay!!!


yup, wouldn't be hard to put a '91 iroc w/ a 350 into the 13's. I'd have to go that route before I bought an import to start with. Plus there are many more parts out there for a 350. A box mustang 5.0 wouldn't be a bad start either, also very cheap and has the best aftermarket support when it comes to performance parts.

Well, there really is no real right answer, I just didn't want to hold my opinion over everyone else's before they had a chance to answer.

Cbass, I'm afraid we aren't necessarily talking dragging, also. More of an all puropse sort of machine, with more emphasis on turn and burn racing than light to light. That's why I put driver skill into question. I'm glad to see many people have an opinion on the topic, though.

As for myself, I lean towards starting newbies out in low power cars with at least one handling bug. The way I learned (though this is WAAAAY out of the norm) is through racing quarter midgets and Formula 440's back when I was about thirteen with one of my Mom's friends. I usually suggest cars like Integras (power off oversteer is a weird experience for a newbie, it helps them to learn it) or Hachi-Rokus (teach them FR and they will thank you for it). Plus, they need to learn how to work on their cars. It's a tough time for a newbie to try and deal with getting connecting rods for a JDM engine after he grenaded it trying out a nitrous system. That's why I suggest cheap cars without too much power, good (if occasionally quirky) handling, and plenty of aftermarket support.

Not that I necessarily disagree with more bang for the buck.

Just for the sake of argument, there is a 87 GN going for $4500 on ebay. It has 73k mile on it. Though its far from perfect, I would consider it to be in good condition.

Ebay is a very innacurate way of trying to get a standard low price. The obvious one is the fact that it is an ongoing bid and while it may be 4500 not it could be 8000 before it closes. And alot of the bids are setup with reservers, or they claim the right to cancel any winner etc. I usually use autotrader or kbb.

True, and cars often go for a lot less than what a good example would be worth in a private sale.

If it's also involving handling and braking, the S13 gets even better. I would also recommend an 86, but it's hard to get more power out of them, since you only have 1.6 liters to work with. Of course, with a good turbocharging, or a swap to a 20V.

http://www.4agze.com/gallery/engines/

They would all fit in an 86 :devil:

Everyone should start out with a car that has no nuts. It's essential to becoming a better driver.

When you start out with very little power, you have to learn to make the most of it! If you have a 300hp car, cornering and braking are not as important as they are in a 150hp car. In fact, launching is not as important in a 300hp car either. In a 150hp car, you have to improve on your skills if you want to go any faster, and I think you gain a deeper sense of car control.

As you add power to the car, the balance of the car changes gradually, and you know exactly when to put that power to use, and still retain the skills you garnered coping with the aenimia of the car's engine.

Well said Cbass, you are absolutely correct. There is nothing like starting out in a slowass car that helps you improve your driving skills to depend less on the potential of the car, and more on the potential of your driving. I started out in a 1985 dull gold corolla that had 280K miles on it, the little bastard ran great but I could get out and push faster then it took off. Another thing it helped with is judging situations correctly (can I make this turn before that car gets here). Even now when I am in a more powerful car that doesn't bog or anything, I still take the same cautious approach more out of old habbit then anything.

I say start with a car with low power, but lots of potential... cheaper on insurance, and lets them learn the car while making it faster...

I would rather have a car that I made fast, instead of buying one that was already fast...

Unless of course I bought a fast car, and made it even faster... but now im rambling and not making any sense...

-Grendel

Get the most reliable unit possible so as to stay on road as much as time as possible.Practice, practice, practice! Learn real car control-much more important than horsepower.Learn to make your car dance then worry about moving up.High entry and exit speeds from corners make up for alot of horsepower differential.

Yeah, that was pretty much the jist of my posts.