Suzuka....

Both championships all but go up in a cloud of smoke. I feel bad for Schumi, first engine failure in something like 5-6 years has to happen now. Something drastic would have to happen to give him the win. It looked so good up until the second pit stop :(

i was disgusted. i was up at 3:00 am on the east coast, and i just turned the tv off and went to bed. very unfortunate indeed. anything can happen in a race, but the odds are slim for brazil. it's been a great season, though. it is the end of an era, but i look forward to the beginning of a new one next year. forza ferrari.


http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/3457473834430867.jpg

I'm gutted

I wonder if Fernando is going to try to win the race or play it safe and place 8th or better. As long as he scores a point he's got the championship, no matter where Schumi finishes.

I'd say its a tough call on whether or not he'll go for the win or settle for at least a point. The only way he could possibly lose the title would be if he DNFs. So far this year, the lowest he has placed in a race where he has finished was 5th (Germany and USA), which would be more then enough for him. The problem with 5th is that he would be back with the pack, where more traffic means that more things can go wrong. I would be a little weary of a stray Massa, Ralf, Kimi... or some of the rookies that can be up there such as Kubica. More traffic could also mean more problems when lapping people, such as the situation with Sato in China on the last lap. Alonso is definitely capable of being in front of almost everybody, giving him room to avoid accidents caused by traffic. This would probably mean that he would have to run more revs then he would if he held back. Renault has shown once this year that its engine isn't completely bullet proof. Being near the front would also help secure the constructor's title. So it comes down to whether he trusts Renault or the other racers more.

will brazil be the second race on alonso's engine or does he have a fresh one?

Both Alonso and Schumi will be on new engines

Not new to the Automotive forums board, but am new to the F1 portion of it. Appears to be a number of schumacher fans here, but I will admit that It was one of the happiest moments of my life when his engine went up in smoke. It was poetic justice. Come on people. Did schumacher really deserve the championship. Renault were superior and until the FIA removed their mass dampers (by the way, they had approved them until ferrari started whining like a bunch of babies). Then schumacher's little Monaco incident. Tire rule change from last year (bridgestone wasn't even in the same book with Michelin much less on the same page). Poor little ferrari had ever chance they could to beat Renault and still couldn't do it. ferrari and schumacher don't deserve this championship. Not a Renault fan either but they deserve to win again.:2cents:

Not new to the Automotive forums board, but am new to the F1 portion of it. Appears to be a number of schumacher fans here, but I will admit that It was one of the happiest moments of my life when his engine went up in smoke. It was poetic justice. Come on people. Did schumacher really deserve the championship. Renault were superior and until the FIA removed their mass dampers (by the way, they had approved them until ferrari started whining like a bunch of babies). Then schumacher's little Monaco incident. Tire rule change from last year (bridgestone wasn't even in the same book with Michelin much less on the same page). Poor little ferrari had ever chance they could to beat Renault and still couldn't do it. ferrari and schumacher don't deserve this championship. Not a Renault fan either but they deserve to win again.:2cents:

So ill-informed and full of double standards, I'm not sure we missed you much in the F1 forum. I'll reply anyway.

first off, get your facts straight, it wasn't Ferrari who complained and cried like babies about the mass damper system. It was *gasp* McLaren. I suppose your next post will have an apology for trying to blame this on Ferrari, right? Not holding my breath, in all honesty.

Secondly, you're talking about rule changes before this season, yet conveniently forget ones constantly introduced since the end of 2002. Was Michelin anywhere on the same page with Bridgestone in 2002? What about 2004 then?

If this was the happiest moment of your life, then I feel sorry for you and your life.

So ill-informed and full of double standards, I'm not sure we missed you much in the F1 forum. I'll reply anyway.

first off, get your facts straight, it wasn't Ferrari who complained and cried like babies about the mass damper system. It was *gasp* McLaren. I suppose your next post will have an apology for trying to blame this on Ferrari, right? Not holding my breath, in all honesty.

Secondly, you're talking about rule changes before this season, yet conveniently forget ones constantly introduced since the end of 2002. Was Michelin anywhere on the same page with Bridgestone in 2002? What about 2004 then?

If this was the happiest moment of your life, then I feel sorry for you and your life.

Why do you question and feel sorry for my life. It's been great. The question is, does michael really deserve the championship, or have rules been bent or changed to GIVE the poor boy that many champioships. Let's face it, Alonso has driven better this year. You failed to mention anything about Monaco. We don't want to look at the DARK side of the champion. I just like a level playing field. It gives EVERYONE a chance to compete fairly. I could site more incidents, but you believe the way you do and I know what I believe and nothing will ever be settled here, but I still liked the smoke. Unfortunately F1 is a red world, but some day thay will change also.

Yada yada yada yada. I've said enough about Monaco in the appropriate thread, and since I saw no apology for blaming Ferrari for something McLaren was responsible for, you may as well stop talking about fairness. Alonso didn't drive better this year, and his attitude towards other drivers as well as his own team make him a much less worthy champion. Good thing he's going to McLaren, him and Ron deserve each other!

Yada yada yada yada. I've said enough about Monaco in the appropriate thread, and since I saw no apology for blaming Ferrari for something McLaren was responsible for, you may as well stop talking about fairness. Alonso didn't drive better this year, and his attitude towards other drivers as well as his own team make him a much less worthy champion. Good thing he's going to McLaren, him and Ron deserve each other!

Funny how you take me for an Alonso fan. I just like racing when it's fair, and think he drove better than your tarnished golden boy. Well - did michael deserve all of those championships? That's OK you don't have to answer just give me another yada.

Of course he deserved his championships, it's a stupid question, just as Alonso deserved his and will deserve this year's should he win it.

Funny how you take me for an Alonso fan. I just like racing when it's fair, and think he drove better than your tarnished golden boy. Well - did michael deserve all of those championships? That's OK you don't have to answer just give me another yada.

who is your favorite driver?

in al seriousness, if you want a more level playing field you need to watch a different series because F1 does not have a level playing field, there really are only a few cars capable of winning.

who is your favorite driver?

in al seriousness, if you want a more level playing field you need to watch a different series because F1 does not have a level playing field, there really are only a few cars capable of winning.

A series where the rules are not changed at someones whim every race would be a level playing field. Oh Pppppplllllease tell me the Super Aguris have a chance for the podium. :screwy: Duh. Tell me something I don't know. I know that Renault at present are the only competition for ferrari, but some day it will change, IF they leave the rules alone long enough.

Look we can go tit for tat and it'll go nowhere. I stated what I thought about michael, and didn't let it all fly. Outside chance he could still win, but doesn't deserve it. I stated my point and will see ya later.

But one just has to wonder, again, why you focus on the rule changes for the current season? Why not focus on the big changes in 1994? Or 1998, which gave huge advantage to McLaren? Or 2003? 2005? Hell, even the first part of 2006 when rules were changed to outlaw Ferrari wings, which were legal until that point? And then, based on a change in regulations brought about by a protest from Mclaren (for which, let me remind you, you blamed Ferrari, typically), that affected at least 7 teams (we'll never know whom it affected most, although if people like you say Renault suffered the most often enough, we may just have to believe that) you say that Schumi's engine going up in smoke was the best moemnt of your life. Not when the driver/team you spport win a race or the championship, but when the team/driver you don't support suffers. Pretty typical, uninformed and petty. Luckily for me, and other Schumacher/Ferrari fans, we've had many fantastic moments due to success of our team and not the misfortune of others.

Edit: if the age in your profile is correct and you're really 61, you must remember a coupel of other rule changes in F1 :lol: And I sure hope that there have been happier moments that Schumacher's engine going up in smoke.

But one just has to wonder, again, why you focus on the rule changes for the current season? Why not focus on the big changes in 1994? Or 1998, which gave huge advantage to McLaren? Or 2003? 2005? Hell, even the first part of 2006 when rules were changed to outlaw Ferrari wings, which were legal until that point? And then, based on a change in regulations brought about by a protest from Mclaren (for which, let me remind you, you blamed Ferrari, typically), that affected at least 7 teams (we'll never know whom it affected most, although if people like you say Renault suffered the most often enough, we may just have to believe that) you say that Schumi's engine going up in smoke was the best moemnt of your life. Not when the driver/team you spport win a race or the championship, but when the team/driver you don't support suffers. Pretty typical, uninformed and petty. Luckily for me, and other Schumacher/Ferrari fans, we've had many fantastic moments due to success of our team and not the misfortune of others.

Edit: if the age in your profile is correct and you're really 61, you must remember a coupel of other rule changes in F1 :lol: And I sure hope that there have been happier moments that Schumacher's engine going up in smoke.

Geez! See this is way off topic. One I was only casually interested in F1 until BMW entered the fray. Am I a Heidfeld fan! Hum! Maybe a Kubica fan. Well I was a Kimi fan and a Juan Pablo fan, but that all has changed. Ya' see. I just can't route for red. As I said, I like racing when it's done where rules are not change to help the privileged few. (Same thing happens at LeMans and in NASCRAP) You believe that everything is done' fairly, but you'd be pretty naive if you believe that. But most people are not able to look within and see the faults of those they admire. They only see what they want to see. So continue to like who you like. I personally don't care. He may be a champion in your eyes, but it takes more than winning races and championships to be a champion (hell even his own brother doesn't like him). Right now, I'll continue to route for the BWM's. Kubica? Heildfeld? We'll see. Favorites, only if they are not willing to cut someone else’s throat to get ahead.

Was that supposed to be a reply to my post? I don't se you replying to any of the points I've made, but that's also typical, so I'm not surprised. So much for trying to have a discussion.

You're right about one thing, it is going off topic.

Was that supposed to be a reply to my post? I don't se you replying to any of the points I've made, but that's also typical, so I'm not surprised. So much for trying to have a discussion.

You're right about one thing, it is going off topic.

Your the guru. This thread is way offffffffffffffff topic. That's why I didn't reply. You wouldn't accept any facts anyway, so why should I try. I can reply tit for tat, but it gets nowhere. If you want. I will reply, even if it's off topic. But once again, you too only reply to what you feel like replying to leaving question that I ask unanswered. I see not point in continuing any further. You have only selective vision. This forum only sees red and nothing else. Adios.

I see not point in continuing any further. You have only selective vision. This forum only sees red and nothing else. Adios.

you're guilty of selective vision as well. also, you chose to comment in this thread, so take what comes with it.

The fact that rules have been changed has been happenning for many years. the powers that be see to that. all teams and team principals complain, and they all point the finger at this infraction or that. some are valid, and some are not, and penalties are handed out accordingly, i.e., Monaco. when you make statements like "did Schumacher really deserve the title?", it's an assenine statement, and it shows a lack of knowledge and a lack of objective viewing on your part. He was penalised for his infraction, and yet he still brought the championship to the final race. The mass damper affected a slew of teams, and if it was that beneficial, i'm certain ferrari would have used one as well. nevertheless, i root for schumacher because he drives for ferrari. i admire his accomplishments, but if he drove for another team, i wouldn't root for him. if he wins the title, of course he deserves it. if alonso wins, he deserves it too, even though he acted immaturely when he threw his team under the bus because of what he perceived to be disloyalty. that's the name of the game. take it for what it is, and everything that comes w/it, or watch something else.

I shouldn't buy into this since everybody has their own version of the "facts" as usual. :rolleyes:

But, I'm very pleased Alonso has been given a big chance at the title again after all the misfortunes (political and technical) he and Renault endured in the second half of the championship. Admittedly the timing was poor but one measly engine blow up for Schumacher in what - five years is a bit rich to get upset about. Nice to see the ledger balanced slightly.

I'm predicting a Massa win in Brazil. The Ferrari and Bridgies will likely continue to be the package to have, but Michael has never really shone at Interlagos. Unless Alonso suffers a misfortune, then Schumacher could be gifted the win and title. That would put his career into perspective! :lol:

Alonsos attitude has been disgusting, if he doesn't win, he mopes around on the Podium like a 6 year old that just got his Playstation confistated, he hasn't stopped moaning since the season began "WAAAAH DID YOU SEE WHAT MICHAEL DID?" (I am 90% sure pulled that very same whinge twice in the fuel burning phase of two Q3 sessions this year- Cracked me up hearing Pat Symonds (?) saying "Yes we did, just get on with it"). His swing at Robert Doornbos and subsequent breakcheck completely sealed it for me though, the guy is a freaking idiot, definitely the sports new Mansell.


Schumi does deserve this title, there was Monacogate, but I have never heard him whinge once the whole season, which is why I respect him, he's had a fair amount of anti-Schumi bias thrown at him by the FIA, but he just puts his head down and gets on with it. I suppose we can only see what happens going into Interlagos this weekend.

hah. finally peoples agree with me about alonsos attitude/.

Jimster's absolutely right. Alonso is a crybaby and that's it. He's a fairwether fan of his own crew. When the gettin's good he's happy and thanks everyone. When he loses, he blames his crew and his team for sabotaging his car and that they don't want him to win the driver's championship. He's an ass. I hope he gets his butt handed to him next year in the mercedes.