Informal brake Set Survey

Okay Guys,

Time for an informal survey. If a brake detail set similar to the Perfect Parts set for the 1/12 Ferrari and McLaren were to be made in smaller scale whould people prefer them in 1/20 for Tamiya kits or in 1/24 for the Revell Germany kits. Please just vote on a scale, not for a particular kit right now. Also would people be willing to pay $30 or $40 for them? Keep in mind that the set would likely have turned and drilled rotors and hubs and turned axels with working wheel nuts. The set would possibly also include cast resin calipers to save people the trouble of having to cut the kit parts and slot the calipers etc.

Regards,

Ron
Racing Miniatures
www.racingminiatures.com

30 to 40 USD is pretty expensive for just a set of 4 on 1/24 skill. Just my point of view... its like buying a SLR just for the brakes...

I would prefer 1/20. But it all depends on the model, I would love to get a set for the newer ferraris (F2000 and F2001).

1/20th would be my preference.

Why not both? The design effort is going to be the same, and it's not too hard to adjust scales, using CAD/CAM. I don't think you want to miss one market for the sake of the other, because there are enough F1 kits in both 1/20 and 1/24 scales. I'll be willing to pay $40, if it has two scales in one set, or $20 for each.

i personally would vote for 1/24th ... as for the price .. i am in the 'if it's more then $20 i will build it my self' crowd ... now if that price also included some 'braided' wire for the brake lines and a few other detail peices that are brake or wheel related then i could see the 30$ price for it ...

We may end up doing some for both 1/20 and 1/24 but it's not just a matter of scaling parts. There are some differences in the hubs and rotors between different cars and especially different eras. So some parts would have to be redesigned to suit the newer 1/24 cars.

As for price, machined parts are expensive to have done. The cost of having 1/24 or 1/20 parts made is actually not much less than having 1/12 parts made. The cost is in the machine work and the actual material cost is only pennies per part. So there is no way we could do a set in turned aluminum for $20. Keep in mind the set would include turned rotors and hubs. Turned axels with working wheel nuts so the wheels could be removable. We would likely include cast resin calipers of the correct type so you wouldn't have to cut apart the kit brakes and risk damaging them and being left with no calipers at all. We might also include turned aluminum valve stems. The rotors themselves would have to be machined and then have something like 35 holes precisely drilled in them. The hub faces would be machined and again have something like 16 or 18 holes precisely drilled in the face. These are complex parts so the costs are high to make them. It's an investment of many thousands of dollars to have a run of a single set made for one or a few cars. So we could conceivably do a set for the F2000 and F2001 and maybe one for early McLarens etc. But we will likely have to do them one at a time.

It's all just at the stage of research and talking to the machine shop right now so nothing is written in stone.

Regards,

Ron
Racing Miniatures
www.racingminiatures.com

Ah, so you don't have prototypes done up yet. I think having some pics would help people alot in determining what they might and might not pay.

Just a guess, but it seems that 1/20 F1 brakes would be alot more cost effective to make and sell, due to the lack of drilled rotors. Drilling the rotors makes a huge difference in production time, and likely therefore in cost. But then for an F2000 or F2001, the carbon rotors wouldn't look any better turned in aluminum as they would cast in resin- either way you will need to paint them.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9324/3600418nt.jpg Something like this, maybe?

As a machinist, I would say that $40 would be a pretty good deal for one set of 1/24 machined aluminum drilled rotors, with or without the calipers and extras. As a modeler, I would have a hard time swallowing that price- it would almost always be more than the kit itself.

In drilling the rotors, I think 35 holes is going to be a bit light. This one has 48, and to my eye it looks sparse. They start to look right once you get 60-70 holes in them- and that's alot of drilling.

I really don't mean to be flippant or dismissive (or even discouraging). It would be a cool thing to have availible. But I suspect that few people would often be willing to pay what they would cost.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9324/3600418nt.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

Hi MPWR,

F1 brakes are actually quite different than the street car/sports racer brakes such as those you show. Here are some pictures.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/356692MP4_4-1.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/356692MP4_5B-1.jpg

The drilling is for the venting around the rim of the rotor and also drilling for the hub detail. The 1/20 set would end up being somewhat like the 1/12 brake set pictured and would include the rotor, hub detail and working axels and wheel nuts. We may also include the calipers and wheel valve stems.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/356692PP12Brakes.jpg

I think for the types of brakes you show the photoetched sets are more than adequate. But photoetch is less than ideal for F1 brakes

Regards,

Ron
Racing Miniatures
www.racingminiatures.com

Ahh, I didn't understand you were speaking only of F1 brakes. When you mentioned drilled, I assumed you meant cross drilled (and therefore streetcars as well as F1). That makes more sense with the 35 holes then, too. I really had my doubts about the feasability of machining cross drilled rotors, but edge drilled seems much more realistic.

But again, why do a set of carbon F1 rotors out of aluminum? Well cast resin will give you every bit of the detail. Most pics I've seen of F1 braking systems show little or no polished metal, even on the hubs.

You may be right Andy about the resin but there is something "magic" about metal parts and I guess in a hobby "magic" is an important ingredient.

I am sure that there would be quite a few people willing to pay 30-40$ for a set of parts that is competitive/superior to other offerings on teh market (if any) but if they would be prettuy similar to the competitions', it's going to be hard to break into the market IMO.

Look at CM. Judging by the frequency of mention on this and other forums, their success is down to very competitive products at a very competitive price comapred to the established suppliers as S27, Acustion etc. On top of that they are constantly coming ion with product news and new ideas. I'd buy shares in CM if I could ;)

PS 037 anyone? :lol:

If the standard is comparable to the 1/12th scale Perfect Parts sets then $40 sounds like a bargin to me!
I think 1/20th would be the way to go at first. The level of engineering and detail in Tamiya's kits is more conducive to the superdetailer who is likely to buy such a set. Most of the 1/24th scale kits are curbside so wouldn't benefit from the extra brake detail as much.
Good luck whatever you decide to do. :)

i'd be willing to pay $40 for a perfect parts-esque brake kit in 1/20... yes, it's a bit steep, but when you consider what we pay for photoetch kits, super detailing kits from, say, SMS, templated carbon decals, etc. it's really not out of line. those of us without the equipment/skills to turn our own parts are sorta stuck at the whims of the market... we have to pay what we're willing to pay for the parts we can find when we find them.

i will say one thing... if you produce a brake kit, please include braided brake lines.

did i mention that you ought to include the braided brake lines?

oh yeah - don't forget the braided brake lines.

:)

Well, ressurecting this old thread. We actually did produce a run of brake sets a while back but then the business went into a coma and eventually died off so I'm left with all the parts. Here's a few pics:

http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/70_70/254_23/Brake3-vi365.jpg
http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/70_70/254_23/Brake1-vi273.jpg
http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/70_70/254_23/Brakes1-vi914.jpg

Will sell these for $45 per set which includes 4 axels, 4 wheel nuts, 4 hubs and 4 rotors. The rotors were treated with a special 3 step anodizing process to replicate the look of the carbon composite brakes and need no finishing to use. No calipers are included so you would have to use the kit parts there.

If those are 1/20 scale, I feel them very expensive. You can have two top studio set for this price :shakehead Which seems very similar, but includes more details + calibers.

1/20 scale 40usd too high 25 to 30usd

RM,
I would suggest you put them on the auction site with a $150 buy-it-now and the fact they are the last ones. Some nutter will buy them.

If those are 1/20 scale, I feel them very expensive. You can have two top studio set for this price :shakehead Which seems very similar, but includes more details + calibers.

There are a couple BIG differences between this and the top studio sets.

1. The Top studio rotors are either resin in the F2000/F2001 set or white metal in their MP4/13 set. Mine are machined aluminum that has been specially finished in a 3 part anodizing process (read lots of added cost) to give a very realistic finish that looks very much like the real carbon rotors. it will be much more difficult to replicate this by hand painting etc. This alone is a huge difference between the two.

2. The hubs in my set are also machined aluminum vs. photoetch which, while looking nice, does not look the same.

3. This set would work well for several models of the older F1 cars (late 80's through early to mid 90's) from Tamiya or possibly even the newer Fujimi kits rather then being specific for a single car as the Top Studio sets.