Precursors to Engineering?

What kind of math do I need and physics? Can you give me an idea of how I use those principles as an engineer? Where do I really start? Is it a fun job? Should I REALLY love math?

you dont have to love math, but physics is a must, and high level calc and whatever is also required.
i LOVED my physics classes. i think that ws the big thing.

you need maths becase you'll be dealing with a lot of numbers in engineering, and you'll need to work a lot of stuff out.

you need physics because you need the understanding of forces and so on, and their impact on what you're working on, how to get around the effects of some things and so on.

Math is a really large component in physics, and a decent math education is absolutley critical for engineering. So don't skimp on the math courses in school, take challenging ones. But for automobile engineering, physics is an absolute must, along with a bit of chemistry.

You need math for physics and you need physics for engineering.

Some courses I'd suggest are Calculus 1-3, differential equations, All basic physics courses, Then try some more specialized physics courses like quantum, electronics and circuits etc. I would also recomend some basic programming classes in case you ever need to make a program to run specific calculations etc for you. It can save alot of time.


Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head I haven't been into that stuff in about 4 years. I was an engineering major but fell 1 semester behind in my math classes. This in turn made my physics classes hell and I wound up dropping engineering. It can be fun depending on the job you get.

My best suggestion is to study hard and do as many homeworks, examples as you can. Just like everything else practice makes perfect, the more you work at it the more easily things will come to you. If you start blowing off homeworks etc you will become lost very fast.

Goodluck with it, I wish I had stuck to it.


~Will

good point.
comp sci is important too.
learn C++ or java if possible.
its amazing the things you can program

The answer to your question depends on the branch of engineering you want to go into. I'm going to assume Mechanica since you are on an automotive forum.

I am in my senior year working towards my mechanical engineering degree, so I will tell you what I've experienced so far. Any accredited program will require you to take Calculus 1-3, Differential equations, and calculus-based physics. Once you actually get into the real engineering stuff, all you really need to know 98% of the time is your basic algebra and basic physics. The other two percent of the time you'll need to be able to solve basic differential questions. Most of the equations you will use, at least at higher levels, were DERIVED using differential equations, but either the general solutions are all readily available (requiring algebra) or the equations have been simplified to get rid of the differential equations.

Besides the courses I listed above, all accredited programs (you do NOT want to go to a school that doesn't have an accredited program) will make you learn almost every aspect of mechanical engineering, plus some that you don't think relates. We've taken several courses dealing with electricity and electrical engineering, but you end up needing those to understand machine controls. You'll learn all types of thermodynamics and heat transfer (read: basic engine design), and LOTS about how materials work.

As far as programming, you don't need much. Most programming based courses are electives, and much of the required programming isn't material you could learn and understand without the proper education. I haven't been required to learn any C++ or Java, nor have I found any instances where it would be of much use. If you are going to learn a language, learn Visual Basic, and learn how to use it with Excel. It makes many engineering problems MUCH easier, and its given me a huge advantage over other people in classes and so far in my job search.

Through my internships, I definately have enjoyed what I've done as a mechanical engineer. You can really do anything with the degree, from designing cars to missiles and defense equipment, to optimizing manufacturing machines.

-Jeff

Everything in engineering school is based around maths.

I took a composites course because it sounded interesting.
It wasn't.
It was just another excuse to ram matrix algebra down our throats.

Having taken that course, I'm a whole lot less enthusiastic about composites. To the point of avoiding buying structural parts made from composites (I have to conceded with tyres though).

Keep in mind that if you are excellent at maths, you'll survive engineering school and come out with very good grades.
But you'll make a crappy engineer if you have no mechanical aptitude or experience.
The fact you're asking this question on a car site suggests that probably won't be a problem.

Wow, redstang pretty much wrote exactly what I was going to post. And as far as being good at math and physics go, I'm no natural, but I am doing well in mechanical engineering, so you do not need to be a math whiz or anything like that. (I sure ain't!) One thing redstang mentioned was internships. I've done these as well and they go a long way towards helping both in terms of your education and in terms of networking to find possible employment. Having practical experience in engineering is gold. Knowing how to derive all sorts of equations and memorizing formula's doesn't mean much compared to simply knowing how to apply what you've learned. Some good advice I once got was, "A good engineer doesn't need to know everything, he just needs to know where to look for the information he needs and how to apply it."

Well, I'll chime in on the other end of the spectrum as a backyard automotive engineer :) If you're looking at being an automotive engineer........

I'm an engineer wannabe. I took up through calc 4 which I viewed as a basis for understanding engineering. By itself, calc is more of a course in making you think. There is a lot of calc used in engineering, but I don't use it at all. What calc taught me was abstract mathematical thought. If nothing else, it gave me a clear representation of concepts like exponential forces vs. linear progressions, etc. You'd be surprised by how many people don't understand the concept of exponential rates. You might hear things like "coefficient of drag is a function of the square of your speed." To most people that means drag gets bigger the faster you go. After you take calculus you'll understand that what it means is doubling your speed squares the amount of drag. There is a lot more to calculus than that, but in my world of backyard automotive engineering, understanding the concept of how rod length affects piston acceleration is something I couldn't have fully grasped without calculus. That is not to say you NEED calculus to be a backyard engineer, its just that its rare that people really grasp those concepts without it. Of course there are also those who take calc and still don't get it. :)

I also say that a KEY ELEMENT (pun intended) of automotive engineering is Chem 1 and 2 with labs. Nothing will jump start your automotive knowledge more than understanding Boyle's gas laws, the concept of energy states, atomic physics, activation energy, electricity, the works. Once you take chem you'll start to laugh at people who suggest the "water car" and you'll understand why I hate those wasteful hybrids. You'll also understand why I hate it when people suggest that adding water to combustion gives it more oxygen. grrr.

I also suggest some self-taught metallurgy. Chem should teach you about the different characteristics like malleability, memory, elasticity, but knowing why some engine parts are cast iron, why some are forged steel, and why some are billet aluminum will help you a lot. Knowing what additional nickel, silicon, coke, or molybdenum does to alloys of steel the more you add will be a nice little thing to put in your pocket.

Lastly, read read read. When you find a topic that interests you and find books on it. I've been known to read 860-page automotive engineering textbooks that only cover one topic. I get so into something and I just can't quit until I've absorbed all I can. I think the key to being a good automotive person is understanding how and why, down to the atomic level inside every automotive component. No offense to anyone in the repair business, but anyone can learn the proper way to install piston pins or rebuild a transmission (which I cannot, by the way) but I understand why a 5-gear planet set is stronger than a 3-gear in a transmission, and I think that is a more important basis. I feel confident in my choices. I don't know how to assemble a transmission, but I know what parts I want in it and why :) My next step is to learn those procedures and the proper ways to do things. I've built some engines now with pretty good success. My next big things are applying what I know to rear axles, transmissions, and body work.

Only problem is... my brain is full. :uhoh:

It's hard too. Your first semester you're going to think "goddamn this sucks, this is hard as hell! But It'll get easier as the semesters pass" Well, it doesn't :D.

I took ME at a university aobut 4 years ago and then dropped it a year and a half in to become an auto tech. Worst mistake ever. Guess what - I'm back in ME again, and remembering how much workload it is. I need to quit my job now becasue working + phyiscs 2 calc 2 and chemistry just isn't possible for me at least. Maybe if there were 37 hours in a day.

Anyhoo, like the guys were saying, you don't have to be a math genius, but you DO have to understand what you're learning. You have to know where when and how to apply the mathematical, physical, and chemical fundamentals that they're teaching you. That's 60% of the major, is learning how to problem-solve strategically. The next 20% is learning how to time manage (ESPECIALLY if you have 5 or 6 classes in a semester). The last 20 is the acutal material. Maybe less. Every equasion that they'll teach you one could probably fit on 4 or 5 pages of paper in a normal font, but knowing how to use them is what takes the 4 or 5 years of uni.

Lastly, you will have no life if you want to succeed, and a corallary to that is that if you DO have a life, you won't succeed. It's really REALLY easy to fall into parties and screwing around and women when you're at college, so try your best to avoid it. Try to make friends with the other engineering majors so you guys can study together which will help you understand better and save time in the long run.

Now that i think about it, calculus isn't all that hard. Calc 2 is the worst because its a LOT of memorization of stuff, but once you have a firm grip on calc 1 and 2, then, calc 3, diff. eq.'s and linear algebra aren't all that bad. This is what i heard from just aobut all of my engineering buddies.

What is really sucking the goats teet for me now is i forgot my trig and how to add/multiply vectors. Anyone wanna gimme a crash course in those? It's holding me back in my physics course :(

just remember that vectors can be added in any order.
if u use this, you can make it easier on yourself by adding the easy ones in first. like counting money. first count $50s then $20s then $10s
you COULD do it in any order, but why?

vectors are a Bitc* tho.

Well I'ts not so much the addition that's getting to me, it's finding the magnitude of the force, which means using trig, which i forgot. I'm trying to relearn it because i KNOW trig isn't hard at all, but for some reason it's just completely escaping me and that's starting to really tick me off.

You need math for physics and you need physics for engineering.

Some courses I'd suggest are Calculus 1-3, differential equations, All basic physics courses, Then try some more specialized physics courses like quantum, electronics and circuits etc. I would also recomend some basic programming classes in case you ever need to make a program to run specific calculations etc for you. It can save alot of time.


Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head I haven't been into that stuff in about 4 years. I was an engineering major but fell 1 semester behind in my math classes. This in turn made my physics classes hell and I wound up dropping engineering. It can be fun depending on the job you get.

My best suggestion is to study hard and do as many homeworks, examples as you can. Just like everything else practice makes perfect, the more you work at it the more easily things will come to you. If you start blowing off homeworks etc you will become lost very fast.

Goodluck with it, I wish I had stuck to it.


~Will

So much to read, and I PROMISE to read it all in time...

Funny you should say that about computers, 'cause I'm a compsci major right now, and have been taking computers since middle school. Computers are the future right? And the school I'm currently attending doesn't offer mech. anything. As soon as I can catch up in math and get the physics I was going to switch over to engineering. My minor is art because I'm good at design but surprisingly, I'm learning some engineering in 3d design class. For instance, just today we watched a video about an environmental artist, Andy Goldsworthy. While he's very much a 'tree-hugger' because he wants to understand nature, he puts together these:

http://www.brogdenstone.co.uk/images/u20254.gif

he can build these within a day and it'll withstand any form of weather. There's no bonding agent used at all. There's no smokes and mirrors, it's held together by gravity and good old fashioned trial and error.
He'll never build it with the same design twice, meaning he'll place the stones in different places or find new stronger stones to use, and that's why he's an environmental artist. When I first saw this video, I was thinking he'd make an excellent engineer, if he wasn't one already. He builds stone walls the same way although he gets help from colleagues and coworkers with those.

http://www.booklounge.com/var/bookshop/storage/variations/image/p/h/p/phpEOxB1W_240x480_6808.jpg

no clay, glue, bolts, nothing. He knows how the stones hold eachother together, fascinating huh?

(i'll get to replying to your other posts soon, thanks)

thats cool.
theres a man who is living his dream

Only problem is... my brain is full. :uhoh:

BLASPHEMY!! Okay that was a great post but I still don't know the difference between mechanical eng and automotive eng. let alone backyard engineering. But instead of asking you guys...uhhh, well you can still answer it but you've jolted me into looking it up myself.

Just the other night I was fed up with people saying an F1 car has less torque than a sports car's engine. The first place I started looking was to find an f1 car (I chose the Renault R25/26 models) and it's torque numbers. That wasn't easy, but only because I still had the mind set that if it had 1200 horsepower, it should have a lot of torque. So I looked around and after an hour of frustration, I found the formula Power(hp) = Torque(lb-ft)xRPM/5252, which means a 1200 hp F1 car has about 600tq. Okay well then why is it the fastest race car in the world? That part was easy to find out. The F1 engines are designed to redline upwards of 20,000 rpms. The horsepower translates to the engine and it accelerates 3 times as fast as most engines, assuming a 6-7k redline. I still don't know why it has half as much torque, possibly rules and regulations have to do with it. Oh, and my point was that I like to learn all I can.

Lastly, you will have no life if you want to succeed, and a corallary to that is that if you DO have a life, you won't succeed. It's really REALLY easy to fall into parties and screwing around and women when you're at college, so try your best to avoid it. Try to make friends with the other engineering majors so you guys can study together which will help you understand better and save time in the long run.


uhhhhhh...that's impossible...but controlling it is doable. I need a social life, and...it's college!!!

Truth Formula = Best Years of My Life >= X <= Making lots of Money where X represents the present time.

Do I get a lifeline?

you're focusing on the torque as if it means something. Its just a variable involved in calculating the HP.

Not to completely hijack the thread, but 250 ft/lb's at 25K RPm's is roughly 1200HP. Acceleration potential is HP, not torque.

you're focusing on the torque as if it means something. Its just a variable involved in calculating the HP.

Not to completely hijack the thread, but 250 ft/lb's at 25K RPm's is roughly 1200HP. Acceleration potential is HP, not torque.

I said 20k, what the, the math isn't working out...

Do you mean that V8s have high torque because they have a lower redline? Now that you've said it, follow through with it!

I said 20k, what the, the math isn't working out...

Do you mean that V8s have high torque because they have a lower redline? Now that you've said it, follow through with it!
very good. I said 25K. :screwy:

Not sure what V8's or redline has to do with it. Its a simple formula as you stated.

Its the end result that matters. HP = acceleration potential. Not torque. If that was the case, then diesels would be the ultimate drag race engine, since they are the masters of torque.

very good. I said 25K. :screwy:

Not sure what V8's or redline has to do with it. Its a simple formula as you stated.

Its the end result that matters. HP = acceleration potential. Not torque. If that was the case, then diesels would be the ultimate drag race engine, since they are the masters of torque.

By that formula, it means that the higher the redline the less torque it has. 315tq for a 20k limit engine and 252tq for a 25k limit engine. Why do I hear all around that it's torque that puts power to the wheels?

By that formula, it means that the higher the redline the less torque it has. 315tq for a 20k limit engine and 252tq for a 25k limit engine. Why do I hear all around that it's torque that puts power to the wheels?
the higher the red line doesn't really matter, its at what RPM you make peak HP that matters. (and a little bit after that, assuming it falls off gradually)

As you've pointed out above, the higher the RPM, the less torque to make the same HP.

As for the "why do I hear"...you hear that from people that don't understand how power is applied to the ground. Many people confuse torque with HP. Its easy to do since they are part of the same formula. But one is static and one is dynamic. In american measurements, on a low-reving motor, a high torque reading is a sure sign of a high HP reading, so its easy to confuse the two. But when you look at rediculously high reving engines, (20K or 25K RPM's) that simplistic view doesn't hold water anymore. You can't look at a F1 engine and say "its fast because it makes a whopping 250 ft/lb's of torque!", because thats really not impressive vs many stock street engines. But the HP definitely IS impressive....which is why its so fast

vectors are a Bitc* tho.

what? vectors are easy.

i did them, i don't know how i did them and i never really understood any of it. but i did them easily.

BLASPHEMY!! Okay that was a great post but I still don't know the difference between mechanical eng and automotive eng. let alone backyard engineering. But instead of asking you guys...uhhh, well you can still answer it but you've jolted me into looking it up myself.

Just the other night I was fed up with people saying an F1 car has less torque than a sports car's engine. The first place I started looking was to find an f1 car (I chose the Renault R25/26 models) and it's torque numbers. That wasn't easy, but only because I still had the mind set that if it had 1200 horsepower, it should have a lot of torque. So I looked around and after an hour of frustration, I found the formula Power(hp) = Torque(lb-ft)xRPM/5252, which means a 1200 hp F1 car has about 600tq. Okay well then why is it the fastest race car in the world? That part was easy to find out. The F1 engines are designed to redline upwards of 20,000 rpms. The horsepower translates to the engine and it accelerates 3 times as fast as most engines, assuming a 6-7k redline. I still don't know why it has half as much torque, possibly rules and regulations have to do with it. Oh, and my point was that I like to learn all I can.

If you learn to work in metric (which you should), you can get rid of all those crappy factors like 5252.

Power = Torque * rotational speed (in radians/second).

Torque and horsepower are different ways of representing the same thing.
If you know the torque curve, you can draw the power curve from it.
If you know the power curve, you can draw the torque curve from it.

If two engines have similar power, the one with a fatter torque curve will always be faster. Peak power means little.

My old corolla:
Approx 70kW (5afe engine) and maybe 800kg, time to 100km ~ 25 seconds.

My 4wd truck:
Approx 100kW (turbo diesel) and 2300kg, time to 100km ~ 22 seconds.



As for Automotive vs Mechanical engineering.
Automotive is a specialized area of mechanical engineering.
Other specialized areas are metallurgy (material science), HVAC (heating, ventilation, air con), Manufacturing, Product Design, Stress Analysis, Control Systems, Pneumatics, Hydraulics etc.


How stressed you'll be at eng school depends on your time management skills.
For my last three years of my degree I was running one university club (with approx 130 members and weekly events), on the committee of another (90 members), represented my uni at snow sports and had a girlfriend who lived 400km away who I managed to see every 2-3 weeks.

I never pulled an all-nighter either. They're just stupid.
The people who are at the computers when you leave to sleep at 5am, are still there at 8am trying to replace the project they accidentally deleted at 6.30am.

If two engines have similar power, the one with a fatter torque curve will always be faster. Peak power means little.
assuming your tranny sucks anyway :p

There is definitely truth to this. But it depends on the application. Peaky engines can be taken advantage of.

My old corolla:
Approx 70kW (5afe engine) and maybe 800kg, time to 100km ~ 25 seconds.

My 4wd truck:
Approx 100kW (turbo diesel) and 2300kg, time to 100km ~ 22 seconds.

that is painfully slow...

that is painfully slow...

painfully slow enough to make you wonder about all the parameters involved in these two vehicles.

Turbo diesels aren't known for their wide power bands (percentage of redline).

Maybe with vehicles this slow, we should compare 0-50kph, because if they take that long to get to 100kph, I have to wonder what their top speeds are

Lastly, you will have no life if you want to succeed, and a corallary to that is that if you DO have a life, you won't succeed. It's really REALLY easy to fall into parties and screwing around and women when you're at college, so try your best to avoid it. Try to make friends with the other engineering majors so you guys can study together which will help you understand better and save time in the long run.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. Well the make friends with other engineers part is correct, but that'll naturally happen because you take all your classes with them. Thats besides the point. I have the highest level of academic scholarship available at my college. I do a varisty sport (Track and Field) at the Division 1 level (with no scholarship, my school did not give athletic scholarships until this current year's freshman). I am a mechanical engineering major with a minor in business and economics. I'm very involved with several student groups like the executive board of the student board of ASME and our school's ski race team. I still work part time (one afternoon a week) at the internship I had this past summer. Also, I am a member of one of the fraternities on campus. As you can imagine, being part of a fraternity leads to a rather fulfilling social life, since we do throw several parties every week. I do all of this while maintaining a GPA high enough to graduate Magna cum Laude (over 3.6). To top it all off, I just received a job offer doing a job I will like with a company I like, paying $62K/year to start WITH full benefits. I apologize if I come off as bragging, but if that isn't combining success with a life, I think everyone is in for a world of dissapointment. It is all about how well you can apply yourself during those times you do have to study, and being able to sacrifice going out every once in a while to complete an assignment. If you try to focus on just school work, or just having a life, your life will be MUCH more stressful.

I never pulled an all-nighter either. They're just stupid.
The people who are at the computers when you leave to sleep at 5am, are still there at 8am trying to replace the project they accidentally deleted at 6.30am.

Or they break for coffee at 3am at a diner and on the way back their car breaks down in the intense fog, 4 in the morning and the alternator dies on the highway, which then it takes a stress filled hour and a half to get back to their dorms and 3 hours to sleep till class,


I mean yeah.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. Well the make friends with other engineers part is correct, but that'll naturally happen because you take all your classes with them. Thats besides the point. I have the highest level of academic scholarship available at my college. I do a varisty sport (Track and Field) at the Division 1 level (with no scholarship, my school did not give athletic scholarships until this current year's freshman). I am a mechanical engineering major with a minor in business and economics. I'm very involved with several student groups like the executive board of the student board of ASME and our school's ski race team. I still work part time (one afternoon a week) at the internship I had this past summer. Also, I am a member of one of the fraternities on campus. As you can imagine, being part of a fraternity leads to a rather fulfilling social life, since we do throw several parties every week. I do all of this while maintaining a GPA high enough to graduate Magna cum Laude (over 3.6). To top it all off, I just received a job offer doing a job I will like with a company I like, paying $62K/year to start WITH full benefits. I apologize if I come off as bragging, but if that isn't combining success with a life, I think everyone is in for a world of dissapointment. It is all about how well you can apply yourself during those times you do have to study, and being able to sacrifice going out every once in a while to complete an assignment. If you try to focus on just school work, or just having a life, your life will be MUCH more stressful.

Thank you for bragging because now I feel a whole lot better about it. I have to bring up my GPA big time though.

that is painfully slow...

Yep.
I always knew my truck was that slow. 2300kg, full time 4wd with 100kw, what did you expect?
It hits full boost at around 1600rpm and the rev limited at 3600rpm. Plus the current gearbox has a large gap between 3-4 and being a truck gearbox it's slow to shift.
An automatic would make this truck much faster, but faster isn't why I own it.

But I was shocked the first time I clocked the corolla. Was a fun car to thrash though, some guys only get 5 seconds of acceleration before they have to slow down, I had 5 times as long.:rofl:

k well i didn't read the whole thing because i've got to be quick. i'm in first year electrical (i want to switch to mechanical, long story why i didn't get into mech) engineering

So, you need to look at the universities you're interested in, check what courses they need. courses that might not be required but that you should take are: computer sciences of some sort, you're going to learn programming and it's a hell of alot easier if you do some sort of programming beforehand. in ontario, canada, it's called geometry and discrete mathematics, this deals with proofs, vectors, etc. you NEED vectors, i can't emphasize this enough. first year mechanics 1 is all about vectors and if you havent taken a course about them you will find first year hell. i don't mean stuff like simple physics vector addition and stuff, you should be very familiar with vector addition and subtraction in both 2d and 3d planes, you should know all about dot product and cross product, stuff like that.

other than that, take the ones that are required. I'm finding first year pretty easy actually, it's alot of review for me since my math teacher made high school math really hard to make sure we're prepared for university. it's more difficult than high school obviously, but i'm doing better.

as for the job, it's a challenging job but it's fun. you're doing things that nobody has done before. nobody has ever designed exactly what you're making. plus you're dealing with a new challenge every time you do a new project, it's not repetetive at all so you don't get bored. engineers tend to love their work, someone also told me they get the lowest health insurance because there's less stress involved since it's enjoyable and we tend to live longer.

make sure you go to an acredited program because if you don't, you're going to have to pass all of your exams again, from first year to fourth year.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. Well the make friends with other engineers part is correct, but that'll naturally happen because you take all your classes with them. Thats besides the point. I have the highest level of academic scholarship available at my college. I do a varisty sport (Track and Field) at the Division 1 level (with no scholarship, my school did not give athletic scholarships until this current year's freshman). I am a mechanical engineering major with a minor in business and economics. I'm very involved with several student groups like the executive board of the student board of ASME and our school's ski race team. I still work part time (one afternoon a week) at the internship I had this past summer. Also, I am a member of one of the fraternities on campus. As you can imagine, being part of a fraternity leads to a rather fulfilling social life, since we do throw several parties every week. I do all of this while maintaining a GPA high enough to graduate Magna cum Laude (over 3.6). To top it all off, I just received a job offer doing a job I will like with a company I like, paying $62K/year to start WITH full benefits. I apologize if I come off as bragging, but if that isn't combining success with a life, I think everyone is in for a world of dissapointment. It is all about how well you can apply yourself during those times you do have to study, and being able to sacrifice going out every once in a while to complete an assignment. If you try to focus on just school work, or just having a life, your life will be MUCH more stressful.

You call one afternoon a week a job? I hate to burst your bubble, but some people are supporting themselves through school, and it isn't easy when rent is due and you don't have it.

i cant tell if the question of why F1 has low torque has been answered yet, but the reason is, that it dosent matter.
the reason they make so much power is that they rev so high.
horsepower is simply torque x rpm. in your typical family sedan, redline is at a lazy 6500 rpm, so torque and hp are close.
in an F1 engine, redline is at 20,000+ (not sure of the actual number).

in an engines torque was 100 lb/ft from 0 - 20,000 rpm (think electric motors) the hp curve would be a straight line goning from 0 to whatever the formula tells you.

displacement = torque
rpm's = horsepower

i cant tell if the question of why F1 has low torque has been answered yet, but the reason is, that it dosent matter.
the reason they make so much power is that they rev so high.
horsepower is simply torque x rpm. in your typical family sedan, redline is at a lazy 6500 rpm, so torque and hp are close.
in an F1 engine, redline is at 20,000+ (not sure of the actual number).

in an engines torque was 100 lb/ft from 0 - 20,000 rpm (think electric motors) the hp curve would be a straight line goning from 0 to whatever the formula tells you.

displacement = torque
rpm's = horsepower

And repetition is key! Thanks greygoose, now I'll never forget it


Sorry If I haven't told anyone but I really didn't think I had to. I've kinda been going slowly through college, and I just transferred to University at Albany in the compsci major. I really wanted to take engineering classes but didn't for 2 reasons

1) Didn't have the confidence, thought I was stupid, not anymore though
2) Albany isn't a technical school, at all, which brings me to the point that I'm restarting their auto club as the Leader, which shows you how much I'm into this stuff.

So I've given myself the challenge to catch up in math, physics, and everything I need and I can also take some classes from a local community college, but only automotive. Eventually when I raise my gpa and have caught up, I'll maybe take a degree in compsci from Albany and get into a school with engineering. I realize this is very far fetched and selfish because it only applies to me but If you have any ideas for me, it's never too early to start planning!!!!!

And repetition is key! Thanks greygoose, now I'll never forget it


Sorry If I haven't told anyone but I really didn't think I had to. I've kinda been going slowly through college, and I just transferred to University at Albany in the compsci major. I really wanted to take engineering classes but didn't for 2 reasons

1) Didn't have the confidence, thought I was stupid, not anymore though
2) Albany isn't a technical school, at all, which brings me to the point that I'm restarting their auto club as the Leader, which shows you how much I'm into this stuff.

So I've given myself the challenge to catch up in math, physics, and everything I need and I can also take some classes from a local community college, but only automotive. Eventually when I raise my gpa and have caught up, I'll maybe take a degree in compsci from Albany and get into a school with engineering. I realize this is very far fetched and selfish because it only applies to me but If you have any ideas for me, it's never too early to start planning!!!!!


I don't get it. If you do not want the Computer Science degree then why complete the curriculum? Why don't you just cut your losses now and transfer to a dedicated engineering school, rather than waste money on a degree you are not going to use?

I don't get it. If you do not want the Computer Science degree then why complete the curriculum? Why don't you just cut your losses now and transfer to a dedicated engineering school, rather than waste money on a degree you are not going to use?

Because It's Albany, any questions?

Because It's Albany, any questions?

You mean Albany is good, or does it mean you have to go to school in Albany?

You mean Albany is good, or does it mean you have to go to school in Albany?

Albany used to be the number 1 party school in the nation, now it's #21, lol, a nice round number if I do say so myself. The point is that I like it here and this place is also good for connections. RPI a technical college is close by but I don't think I could afford the tuition there. So I'm sitting here catching up. Not a problem thus far.

You call one afternoon a week a job? I hate to burst your bubble, but some people are supporting themselves through school, and it isn't easy when rent is due and you don't have it.

If you read my post, I never actually called it a job, I merely said working one afternoon. Despite going to a rather overpriced college, I'm lucky enough that I have my academic scholarship to cut my costs significantly, worked full time all through high school (and about 60-80 hrs per week during the summer) and put a good amount of money away towards college, and my are parents picking up the rest of the tab beyond that, leaving me with no loans to worry about.

To get this all back on subject... My point, however, was that its all about how you apply yourself and manage your time. Track is a 30+ hour per week commitment. Add up all of my extracirriculars (not including anything social), and I have a good 40-45 hours per week committed to non-academic causes while maintaining a social life. Doing this while trying to work to support myself though school would be nearly, if not completely, impossible. This is why time management skills are so important.

Beef Burrito started talking about jobs. The great thing about being a mechanical engineer is that you can find a job in almost any field doing anything. When something needs to be designed, it can almost always be done by a mechanical engineer. We are the most complete package out of any engineer, being able to do some things (but not all) that a electrical engineer, civil engineer, and chemical engineer can do. You can even get yourself into consulting, which you will work on ALL types of projects and rarely the same project twice. Its all about what you want to do as a mechanical engineer, rather than what the field allows you to do.

.

Ok, fine, but keep in mind that people like you are few and far in between. I saw far too many (and myslef included) engineering majors fall into partying and trying to keep up with classes and just not doing it.

I've gone BACK to engineering major (ME :)) BUt i'm having one hell of a time doing THREE classes and working at the same time. So much so that i'm aobut to quit my job and find odd jobs on the weekends to pay the bills. That's just me.

Funny you should say that about computers, 'cause I'm a compsci major right now, and have been taking computers since middle school. Computers are the future right?

How about computer and electronics in cars?

How about computer and electronics in cars?

It sounds boring, by itself that is

It sounds boring, by itself that is

Makign a car more powerful through modifying the computer or engineering something. It seems kind of interesting to me.

Makign a car more powerful through modifying the computer or engineering something. It seems kind of interesting to me.

i think it's that he's looking for something more manual, more hands-on.

Ok, fine, but keep in mind that people like you are few and far in between. I saw far too many (and myslef included) engineering majors fall into partying and trying to keep up with classes and just not doing it.

I saw a lot of people who had very high marks in high school, fall into drinking too much and studying not enough.
Bombing out after about 2 years of acheiving nothing but racking up an expensive student loan.

ENC 1101 Freshman English I 3
MAC 2281 Engineering Calculus I 4
CHM 2045 General Chemistry I 3
CHM 2045L Chemistry Lab I 1
EGS 1113 Intro. to Design Graphics 3
EGN 3000 Foundations of Engineering (short) 1
Total 15

Semester II ENC 1102 Freshman English II 3
MAC 2282 Engineering Calculus II 4
PHY 2048 General Physics I 3
PHY 2048L General Physics I Lab 1
Fine Arts Elective 3
Total 15


Semester III MAC 2283 Engineering Calculus III 4
PHY 2049 General Physics II 3
PHY 2049L General Physics II Lab 1
EGN 3311 Statics (short) 3
Social Science Elective 3
Total 14


Semester IV MAP 2302 Differential Equations 3
EGN 3321 Dynamics (short) 3
EGN 3365L Materials Engineering I (short) 3
EGN 3373 Electrical Systems I 3
Historical Perspectives 3
Total 15


Summer Term EGN 3443 Eng Statistics & Prob. 3
EGN 3343 Thermodynamics I (short) 3
EML 3500 Mechanics of Solids (short) 3
EGN 2031 History of Technology (short) 3
Total 12


Semester V EML 3762 Kin. & Dyn. of Machinery (short) 3
EML 3041 Computational Methods (short) 4
EML 3701 Fluid Systems (short) 3
ENC 3211 Comm. for Engineers 3
Mechanics Tech Elective 3
Total 16


Semester VI EML 4501 Machine Design (short) 3
EML 3303 Mechanical Engineering Lab I (short) 3
EML 4142 Heat Transfer I (short) 3
EML 4106 Thermal Syst. (short) 3
EGN 3613 Eng. Eco. with Social & Global Impl. 3
Total 15


Semester VII EML XXXX Mechanical Manufacturing Processes (short) 3
EML 4302 Mechanical Engineering Lab II (short) 3
EML 4220 Vibrations (short) 3
EML 4551 Capstone Design (MWMI) (short) 3
ALAMEA Perspectives Elective 3
Total 15


Semester VIII EML 4312 Mechanical Controls (short) 3
Social Science Elective 3
Approved Technical/Design Elective

EAS 4121 Hydro and Aerodynamics (short)

EML 4419C Propulsion I (short)

EML 4601 Air Conditioning (short)

EML 4930 Power Plant Engineering (short)

EML 5245 Tribology (short)

EML 5930 Compressible Flow (short)

EML 4562 Introduction to Composite Materials (short)

EML 6801 Optics (short)

EML 4031 Visual Basic for Engineers & Scientists (short)

EML 5105 Internal Combustion Engines (short)

ECH 3702 Instrument Systems 4 hrs. (short)

EML xxxx Finite Elements (short)
3
Natural Science Elective* 3
Total 12


*Students may substitute a technical/design elective if University natural science requirements are satisfied.


Just thought I'd post the semester by semester breakdown for a mech. eng. degree. This is from University of South Florida. It maaay differ slightly univ. to univ., but I doubt it will too much

To double off 2turbo, here is my coursework so far... a normal courseload at my school is 4 courses. Engineers take 5 beginning sophomore year because our school was originally a 5-year engineering program that condensed bascially the same number of courses into 4 years... We are required to take at least 3 humanities or social sciences courses, but at least 1 in each division. We need at least one math or science elective. Also, we need to take a minimum of two technical mech. engineering electives beyond the required coursework.

Fall 03 (Frosh)
ES101 - Introduction to Engineering + Intro to eng. Lab
CHEM111 - General Chemistry + General Chem Lab
MATH 162 - Calculus 2 (I started here because I had AP credit)
FYS097 - First year seminar - freshman course to orient you to college work, based on writing papers on various topics, depending on the actual course you are in.

Spring 04 (Frosh)
MATH263 - Calculus 3
PHYS131 - Newtonian Dynamics (calc based physics)
ES231 - Nature of Materials (material science course)
ENG110 - College Writing - general English course focusing on (surprise) writing

Fall 04 (sophomore)
ECON101 - Intro to engineering (social science)
ES225 - Engineering Professionalism and Ethics (exactly what it sounds like)
ES226 - Statics
MATH264 - Differential Equations
PHYS132 - Electricity and Magnetism (worst class in the world)

Spring 05 (soph)
ECON211 - Intermediate Microeconomics (social science)
ECON212 - Intermediate Macroeconomics (soc. science. I was minoring in Econ, but its too boring for me so I dropped it)
ES230 - Strengths of materials
ME210 - Manufacturing and Design (hands on manufacturing course where we design, machine, and build a small battery-powered "drag racer" for a schoolwide Mech. Engineering competition)
ME240 - Dynamics

Fall 05 (junior)
MATH186 - Applied Statistics (math/science elective)
ME331 - Instrumentation and Data Aquisition
ME336 - Engineering Materials and Manufacturing (Tech. Elective)
ME350 - Thermodynamics 1
ME353 - Engineering Design 1

Spring 05 (junior)
ME352 - Dynamics of physical systems
ME360 - Thermodynamics 2
ME362 - Fluid Mechanics
ME371 - Engineering Design 2
(I only took 4 courses instead of 5 because I was ahead of where I needed to be in terms of coursework)

Summer 06 (done on my own, not required by any means)
INDS220 - Study Abroad in Italy... "studied" renaissance art (humanities)

Fall 06 (senior, in progress)
ME470 - Heat Transfer
ME478 - Control Systems and Mechatronics (lecture)
ME479 - Control Systems and Mechatronics Laboratory (course is so time intensive, the lab and course are seperate classes unlike all other courses at my school)
ME484 - Applied Finite Element Analysis (Tech. Elective)
ME497 - Senior Design Project 1 - I am on a design team building a car for the Society of Automotive Engineer's Formula car competition (FSAE)

Spring 07 (senior, not yet started by me)
ME475 - Thermo/Fluids Lab
ME498 - Senior Design Project 2
Final three courses are free electives or tech electives if you still need to take them. I only need to take two since my graduation requirements are completed and I only need four courses this semester to have enough to graduate.

Yep indeed. that's mainly why engineering semesters avg 15 credits per semester rather than 12. The only lame thing I did was go through most of a chem. degree and then switch to engineering. whoops, now I have to redo physics, the labs and go through calcs, which sucks since my undergrad requirments have been filled so the classes I need pre req. w/ calc III or physics II, which I am finishing this semester. Now the spring can begin 15 credit semesters.

ENC 1101 Freshman English I 3
MAC 2281 Engineering Calculus I 4
CHM 2045 General Chemistry I 3
CHM 2045L Chemistry Lab I 1
EGS 1113 Intro. to Design Graphics 3
EGN 3000 Foundations of Engineering (short) 1
Total 15

Semester II ENC 1102 Freshman English II 3
MAC 2282 Engineering Calculus II 4
PHY 2048 General Physics I 3
PHY 2048L General Physics I Lab 1
Fine Arts Elective 3
Total 15


Semester III MAC 2283 Engineering Calculus III 4
PHY 2049 General Physics II 3
PHY 2049L General Physics II Lab 1
EGN 3311 Statics (short) 3
Social Science Elective 3
Total 14


Semester IV MAP 2302 Differential Equations 3
EGN 3321 Dynamics (short) 3
EGN 3365L Materials Engineering I (short) 3
EGN 3373 Electrical Systems I 3
Historical Perspectives 3
Total 15


Summer Term EGN 3443 Eng Statistics & Prob. 3
EGN 3343 Thermodynamics I (short) 3
EML 3500 Mechanics of Solids (short) 3
EGN 2031 History of Technology (short) 3
Total 12


Semester V EML 3762 Kin. & Dyn. of Machinery (short) 3
EML 3041 Computational Methods (short) 4
EML 3701 Fluid Systems (short) 3
ENC 3211 Comm. for Engineers 3
Mechanics Tech Elective 3
Total 16


Semester VI EML 4501 Machine Design (short) 3
EML 3303 Mechanical Engineering Lab I (short) 3
EML 4142 Heat Transfer I (short) 3
EML 4106 Thermal Syst. (short) 3
EGN 3613 Eng. Eco. with Social & Global Impl. 3
Total 15


Semester VII EML XXXX Mechanical Manufacturing Processes (short) 3
EML 4302 Mechanical Engineering Lab II (short) 3
EML 4220 Vibrations (short) 3
EML 4551 Capstone Design (MWMI) (short) 3
ALAMEA Perspectives Elective 3
Total 15


Semester VIII EML 4312 Mechanical Controls (short) 3
Social Science Elective 3
Approved Technical/Design Elective

EAS 4121 Hydro and Aerodynamics (short)

EML 4419C Propulsion I (short)

EML 4601 Air Conditioning (short)

EML 4930 Power Plant Engineering (short)

EML 5245 Tribology (short)

EML 5930 Compressible Flow (short)

EML 4562 Introduction to Composite Materials (short)

EML 6801 Optics (short)

EML 4031 Visual Basic for Engineers & Scientists (short)

EML 5105 Internal Combustion Engines (short)

ECH 3702 Instrument Systems 4 hrs. (short)

EML xxxx Finite Elements (short)
3
Natural Science Elective* 3
Total 12


*Students may substitute a technical/design elective if University natural science requirements are satisfied.


Just thought I'd post the semester by semester breakdown for a mech. eng. degree. This is from University of South Florida. It maaay differ slightly univ. to univ., but I doubt it will too much

I knew I recognized a lot of those course numbers.... they're part of the Common Course Numbering System of Florida. (I go to UCF.)

The uni I went to (not in the US) had an engineering course load equal to 1.5 EFTS (equivalent full time student).

Intermediate year = 48 points (42 is full time).
1st professional year = 10 courses, the calculus paper has double the usual course loading
2nd professional year = 12 courses
3rd professional year = 12 courses including a self directed project with double the usual course loading.