Help Me Please
crackerjack1
10-02-2006, 06:56 PM
I'm 18 yrs old and I drive a civic and I want something with a little more. . . bang. My father says he will buy the body of the car if I will buy the engine/tranny. I was wanting to get a Firebird or a Camaro because when he was my age he had a Firebird but, ironically, he sold it when I was born. Can someone give me some general information about these cars and a motor that will fit them? It doenst have to dish out 1000 h/p or anything. Just something that will run well and enough power for me to feel and be satisfied with. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
MrPbody
10-03-2006, 01:15 PM
Cj,
There are 4 "generations" of F-body (Firebird and Camaro). It's debatable, which is "better". The 1st gen cars ('67-'69) are the most "prized" by collectors, making the value quite high. Certain models are more desirable than others, for collectors. Firebird TransAm ('69) is probably at the top of the list (most rare). Z/28 Camaro ('68, a few, and '69) come in a close second. I read a post on another site that suggested there are now about twice as many '69 Z/28s out there than Chevy sold new (LOTS of "cloning" going on). RS and SS Camaro and Firebird "400" are next in the pecking order. Then the Firebird "HO" or "Sprint", and then the plain-janes.
ALL Camaros of the era equipped with V8s were either small block (307, 327, 350) or big block Chevy engines (396). ALL V8 Firebirds were the "traditiional" Pontiac V8 (326 in '67, 350 in '68 and 9, and 400). The Chevy used the OHV 250 CID 6-cylinder. The Firebirds had the OHC 250 straight 6. NOTE: Some "HO" Firebirds had the 250 OHC 4-bbl. engine, capable of low 14 second 1/4 mile times.
The 2nd gen cars are the most prolific. Except the earlier years of Z/28 and T/A (performance car production was hurt BAD by a corprate-wide strike on production lines, '72 and '73), production was amazing! In '79, Pontiac sold over 100K TransAms, not to mention the other models of Firebird, such as Esprit and Formula. Camaro production was ahead of Firebird until about '75. Then, T/A became the "banner carrier" for GM performance cars.
Engines get a bit "fuzzy" through this era. The Camaros still used the 250-6 and 350, as well as a few 454s. TransAm, through '76, had either 400 or 455, depending on year and how it was ordered. After '76, most T/As had 403 Olds through '79. The "good" ones had 400 Pontiac. You can tell by looking IF the scoop is original. "T/A 6.6" indicates 400 Pontiac. "6.6 Litre" indicates 403 Olds. After '79, (and a few during that year) were the 4.9 Pontiac (301), or 305 Chevy. If it's a "Turbo T/A", it's the 301.
3rd gen cars are considered the "most" aerodynamic. Good body for high speed running. They were ALL Chevy V8s (if a V8 car). Pretty sloppily built, and notorious for being "rattle traps". Avoid T-tops.
4th gen cars are the most sophisticated. This is largely due to the available technology. An LT or LS-powered car can be very fast, both in accelleration AND top-end speed. And, due to the electronics, MUCH better fuel economy.
So, take your pick. The least expensive would be the "plain jane" 2nd gen cars, and MAYBE 3rd, as well. For a T/A or Z/28, 3rd gen would be the least expensive. ALL of them have tremendous performance potential! IMO, 1st gen Camaros (no slight to 1st gen 'birds, but Camaros can be pretty cool!) and 2nd gen T/As have the most class. 2nd gen T/A was a dead-serious performance car from it's inception. There were suspension and steering parts available on T/A Z/28 never offered (WS-6). And in '77, Chevy HAD to get Z/28 back out there, so a decal package was devised. No other changes to the "Berlinetta". It had a "sticker" for a scoop on the hood. No class AT ALL.
Have fun and good luck!
Jim
There are 4 "generations" of F-body (Firebird and Camaro). It's debatable, which is "better". The 1st gen cars ('67-'69) are the most "prized" by collectors, making the value quite high. Certain models are more desirable than others, for collectors. Firebird TransAm ('69) is probably at the top of the list (most rare). Z/28 Camaro ('68, a few, and '69) come in a close second. I read a post on another site that suggested there are now about twice as many '69 Z/28s out there than Chevy sold new (LOTS of "cloning" going on). RS and SS Camaro and Firebird "400" are next in the pecking order. Then the Firebird "HO" or "Sprint", and then the plain-janes.
ALL Camaros of the era equipped with V8s were either small block (307, 327, 350) or big block Chevy engines (396). ALL V8 Firebirds were the "traditiional" Pontiac V8 (326 in '67, 350 in '68 and 9, and 400). The Chevy used the OHV 250 CID 6-cylinder. The Firebirds had the OHC 250 straight 6. NOTE: Some "HO" Firebirds had the 250 OHC 4-bbl. engine, capable of low 14 second 1/4 mile times.
The 2nd gen cars are the most prolific. Except the earlier years of Z/28 and T/A (performance car production was hurt BAD by a corprate-wide strike on production lines, '72 and '73), production was amazing! In '79, Pontiac sold over 100K TransAms, not to mention the other models of Firebird, such as Esprit and Formula. Camaro production was ahead of Firebird until about '75. Then, T/A became the "banner carrier" for GM performance cars.
Engines get a bit "fuzzy" through this era. The Camaros still used the 250-6 and 350, as well as a few 454s. TransAm, through '76, had either 400 or 455, depending on year and how it was ordered. After '76, most T/As had 403 Olds through '79. The "good" ones had 400 Pontiac. You can tell by looking IF the scoop is original. "T/A 6.6" indicates 400 Pontiac. "6.6 Litre" indicates 403 Olds. After '79, (and a few during that year) were the 4.9 Pontiac (301), or 305 Chevy. If it's a "Turbo T/A", it's the 301.
3rd gen cars are considered the "most" aerodynamic. Good body for high speed running. They were ALL Chevy V8s (if a V8 car). Pretty sloppily built, and notorious for being "rattle traps". Avoid T-tops.
4th gen cars are the most sophisticated. This is largely due to the available technology. An LT or LS-powered car can be very fast, both in accelleration AND top-end speed. And, due to the electronics, MUCH better fuel economy.
So, take your pick. The least expensive would be the "plain jane" 2nd gen cars, and MAYBE 3rd, as well. For a T/A or Z/28, 3rd gen would be the least expensive. ALL of them have tremendous performance potential! IMO, 1st gen Camaros (no slight to 1st gen 'birds, but Camaros can be pretty cool!) and 2nd gen T/As have the most class. 2nd gen T/A was a dead-serious performance car from it's inception. There were suspension and steering parts available on T/A Z/28 never offered (WS-6). And in '77, Chevy HAD to get Z/28 back out there, so a decal package was devised. No other changes to the "Berlinetta". It had a "sticker" for a scoop on the hood. No class AT ALL.
Have fun and good luck!
Jim
crackerjack1
10-03-2006, 11:35 PM
MrPbody, thankyou so much. Your information was all very informative and helpful. I've found a 78 or 79 t/a locally. The owner doesnt really know the year but guessed around that. He said it has no engine or transmission but for the most part is intact. What are some things to look for? Is there a way to identify the year? What is a good price for a car like this? And, what motors will fit in it?
MrPbody
10-04-2006, 08:00 AM
To identify the year and model, you need the VIN (vehicle identification number). A '78 will have the "batmobile" looking grill and headlights (pretty much klike the '77, of "Smoky and the Bandit" fame). The '79 is more "closed" in the front, and the tail panel has a reflector all the way across. '79 was the last year for "big" engines.
Look for rust in the rear subframe area first. Many a T/A has been scrapped due to rusting there.
The Pontiac V8 is the easiest one to get all the mounts and brackets for, to fit the car. If you found a Camaro "donor", a Chevy engine would also be fairly easy. NOTE: A 2nd gen T/A with a Chevy engine is "shunned" by all Pontiac enthusiasts. There's a myth in the car hobby that states one must use a Chevy V8 to make a Pontiac fast. It's truly a myth. The 400 Pontiac is a great engine, and responds VERY well to modifications. 400s are also quite available and relatively cheap. 403 is a good engine, too, but not as easy to find the parts you need to "fit" it in the car. And the Olds doesn't respond to modifications as readily as the Chevy or Poncho.
The "rage" today, is to get a 400 block and "stroke" it to 461. One can easily build a 500 HP/550 lb. torque streeter with that combo.
Jim
Look for rust in the rear subframe area first. Many a T/A has been scrapped due to rusting there.
The Pontiac V8 is the easiest one to get all the mounts and brackets for, to fit the car. If you found a Camaro "donor", a Chevy engine would also be fairly easy. NOTE: A 2nd gen T/A with a Chevy engine is "shunned" by all Pontiac enthusiasts. There's a myth in the car hobby that states one must use a Chevy V8 to make a Pontiac fast. It's truly a myth. The 400 Pontiac is a great engine, and responds VERY well to modifications. 400s are also quite available and relatively cheap. 403 is a good engine, too, but not as easy to find the parts you need to "fit" it in the car. And the Olds doesn't respond to modifications as readily as the Chevy or Poncho.
The "rage" today, is to get a 400 block and "stroke" it to 461. One can easily build a 500 HP/550 lb. torque streeter with that combo.
Jim
PeteRR
10-05-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm not a Chevy guy by any means, but the '70 Camaros do it for me. The '70 Trans Am is also a good looking car.
jveik
10-06-2006, 08:47 AM
yeah you can run 12's in a streetble 350 with the right heads and cam. even just some slightly modded vortec heads can provide great flow for only about 300 bucks apiece.
crackerjack1
10-06-2006, 02:29 PM
So would my best option be to buy a 350 off of ebay or is there a engine store or something? Will I need a motor mount kit to fit in a Camaro or Firebird or can I use the existing brackets? By the way, thanks for all the help so far.
PeteRR
10-06-2006, 02:34 PM
So would my best option be to buy a 350 off of ebay or is there a engine store or something? Will I need a motor mount kit to fit in a Camaro or Firebird or can I use the existing brackets? By the way, thanks for all the help so far.
Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925232+4294908216+115+4294 918831&NeXID=5) will sell you every flavor of GM crate motor, and for a good price.
Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925232+4294908216+115+4294 918831&NeXID=5) will sell you every flavor of GM crate motor, and for a good price.
jveik
10-09-2006, 08:47 AM
well, as long as the car came with a smallblock originally, you should be fine for the motor mounts. you might want to change them anyways though, cause the rubber in them might be gone to hell and back
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